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Treasure Card Banning in PvP

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Jan 27, 2011
97
kymma shadow on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
Only warlords call it puppetting. And I don't agree with them.
Well, I can recall one match my friends participated in where there was a Warlord Life and Private Storm. The Warlord did nothing but heal while the Storm was the big hitter. As far as their levels went the Life was a Promethean and the Storm was at least a Master (this match was last night so I don't remember some details). Granted my friends won by taking out the Storm since she was the only hitter, but I do have to say their tactic was puppetting.

Morgrim,
Lvl. 85

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Nightblood1995 on Feb 17, 2014 wrote:
Mr. Grimwater and I had an excellent debate on the difference between Tactics and Skill. A Skill is something you train for, you put effort into. Tactics are all about devising strategies.

You really want to insult my friend? Alright I'll get serious for this one.

You obviously never made it to Khrysalis, and that's no where near an insult yet. As you so said 'use or non-use says nothing about the skill level of a wizard' try heeding your own words and quit being hypocritical, considering how you just failed with me after trying to say that not-usage of TC shows no skill/intelligence.

You really want to throw that last sentece into this? Because you obviously don't know the meaning of a GAME. There's no skill in a game, all you're doing is using tactics. What exactly are you doing? Clicking a mouse and typing chat. A skill is more than just clicking a button, if it weren't then the definition wouldn't be 'extensive learning/special training' it would be similar to the definition of Tactic and Talent. They are all different. You're making the same mistake Duncan Grimwater made.

What's 'extremely far and laughable' is how badly you and your other 'TC lovers' have twisted this post. If I were admin I'd see a couple of Trolls on here, considering how this all started thanks to Duncan Grimwater and you blowing this all entirely out of context. Kind of funny how I first said 'I support the Classic PvP Option' and now we have kids trying to continually debate with us (and yes, I say kids because the average adult would of seen the analogical connection between DiamonDust's 'brain surgeon' connection instead of taking it all literally, which is exactly what a kid would do).

Like I have said recently: enough with your TC gibberish. We're not here to ban TC so take a step back and think of a new approach. You and a lot of these other trolls are fighting the wrong people on the wrong topic. Think before you speak.

R.I.P.
Morgrim, Lvl. 85
Ha, it's funny how you are trying to change the post into "PvP is ruining the game."

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
kymma shadow on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
Only warlords call it puppetting. And I don't agree with them.
It may seem that only warlords call it puppetting because warlords are the only ones who have to put up with it.

Champion
Feb 29, 2012
488
Aaron SpellThief on Feb 17, 2014 wrote:
Honestly, if a level 95 and a level 30 get level 40-60 players, that's about as fair as the matches I get in 1v1. I constantly get paired with ranked down level 95s on my balance. If people are complaining about that, and it was fixed, even a little bit, I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed for 1v1, as well.
When you consider the huge amount of critical/resist they have it upsets the balance, such as it is, of PvP even more. To add to that, some people they face are a team of two Privates just testing out the PvP waters. This is hardly fair to the people who know what exactly they're doing, not to mention how unfair it is to those who don't know what they're doing.

Sure, those that they face can use Infallible and a pet with pierce along with gear that gives pierce, but most people who puppet are smart enough to see this and shield. If they don't, they can easily heal it off though.

We're not seeing too much of the Jade Gear since the Hades gear came out though. Their critical outmatches the critical/block these people have and it makes it unfair to them. I mean, a level 60 sitting at somewhere around 100 to 140, 150 block against a Promethean with 300+ critical. If they save up pips, two or three back to back AoEs will have that poor team's heads spinning.

I'm also going to recommend you to have a look at the Wizard101 Central Puppet Teams discussion area thread, 'Are there "puppets" any more? Or are the unicorns?' The videos posted about halfway through the thread highlight some of the unfair aspects puppet teams have. Granted, some people win, however, this is not always the case and when faced a skilled puppet team survival is nearly nonexistent.

Champion
Feb 29, 2012
488
stormninja542 on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
It may seem that only warlords call it puppetting because warlords are the only ones who have to put up with it.
Not so, both privates and warlords can get matched up with puppet teams. And Kymma, if you want proof that not just Warlords call it puppeting, take a look at Wizard101 Central's PvP section. They have a whole section of the forum dedicated to puppet teams and the problems of facing them.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Nightblood1995 on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
This topic is more than just TC, but your arrogance blinds you. When in the subject does it say 'Ban TC'? Hmm? Again:BLIND. The person who started this thread is talking more than just TC, but you're so up tight about TC you failed to read the rest.

As for 2 power pips wands: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?212573-2-power-pip-wands do your homework before you try discrediting me. They would of came out around Celestia, but again all the arguments to nerf that idea were all PvP related. So yes: PvP ruined it.

As for our 'compromise' again: you're blind. DiamondDust and I as well as the author of this thread suggested implementing a system into the game, but obviously you never read that far.

Shadow Spells are available only at the level cap, so the only reason you think it's overpowered is because you have no clue as to combat them. If you did, you wouldn't call them overpowered. Overpowering Shadow Magic would be making TC versions of it.

This topic is more than TC so unless you're about to read her ENTIRE post and comment on it fully like she intended go make your own thread.

Morgrim,
Lvl. 85
If you really think that shadow spells are not overpowered, try battling as a level 50 2300+ rating warlord against level 95s. The problem with shadow spells is that one, they take away the only advantage of ice, and of lower level warlords, and two, players that have shadow spells can get matched with players that cannot. The only advantages a lower level warlord has over the average higher level player are resist and strategy, or tactics, as you call them. Also, you might want to refer to a post on the pvp message board called, "PVP Within the Message boards." As for the original post, this is about treasure cards. It may not be about banning them, but the major issue is about whether or not to have a pvp that is without treasure cards. I do not think that this is a good idea, as I have stated previously. It would only be privates playing, as warlords would be paired with much higher level players that they could not hope to out-damage without treasure cards. These warlords would then not be able to get matches, as they are far less numerous than privates. Many people, such as me, play the game only for pvp. If pvp was broken even more, or separated so that the players that pay more won't get matches, Kingsisle would lose money. As you stated in your previous post that is impossible to know that match times increase until we try the system, well, that's just logic. If there are less players in the queue, then match times will certainly increase. It's just how much that we are not sure of.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Nightblood1995 on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
This topic is more than just TC, but your arrogance blinds you. When in the subject does it say 'Ban TC'? Hmm? Again:BLIND. The person who started this thread is talking more than just TC, but you're so up tight about TC you failed to read the rest.

As for 2 power pips wands: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?212573-2-power-pip-wands do your homework before you try discrediting me. They would of came out around Celestia, but again all the arguments to nerf that idea were all PvP related. So yes: PvP ruined it.

As for our 'compromise' again: you're blind. DiamondDust and I as well as the author of this thread suggested implementing a system into the game, but obviously you never read that far.

Shadow Spells are available only at the level cap, so the only reason you think it's overpowered is because you have no clue as to combat them. If you did, you wouldn't call them overpowered. Overpowering Shadow Magic would be making TC versions of it.

This topic is more than TC so unless you're about to read her ENTIRE post and comment on it fully like she intended go make your own thread.

Morgrim,
Lvl. 85
Says the blind one who wants to change the topic "Make a new rank pvp for non tc user" to I hate pvp cause it's ruining the game. The OP wants the change the the title says or increase the resist of the waterworks gear. Thanks for the whines nightblood. The point is this compromise will make it nearly impossible for high ranked people to get a match and harder overall for people to find a match. I'm trying to say that this change is UNNECESSARY. You try to focus on a ridiculous "problem" that isn't a "problem."

Survivor
Sep 20, 2009
3
i totally agree rank should be with no tc

Survivor
Sep 20, 2009
3
A lot of people don't deserve the rank they have. They only have it because they use tc can rank be with out treasure cards.

Delver
Jan 31, 2012
226
Scarlet Nightdream... on Feb 17, 2014 wrote:
That would be puppeting.

People would do that to get easy matches and they would demolish the lower leveled team they faced. Of the two evils, treasure cards are easier to counter for reasons I have stated in my previous post.

And no, people are not wrong about puppeting. While it may be a valid strategy, KI has heard the player's complaints about it and tried to make it harder for people to puppet, which shows that in PvP it's generally frowned upon. If a level 95 teams up with a level 30 and gets to face two level 40-60s is that fair? No, it isn't. The level 95 might have Shadow Shrike and used against lower level players it's deadly.
Maybe the higher lvl wizards doesn't use tc card and ask a friend that 10 lvl lower then she is. Is that still puppetting?

Delver
Jan 31, 2012
226
stormninja542 on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
It may seem that only warlords call it puppetting because warlords are the only ones who have to put up with it.
Maybe there puppetting because warlords use tc cards to much. Have you thought about that.

And I did do rank pvp with a lower lvl storm wizard and I got reported for so I reported them back for false report. And it was my balance name Amy.

And I will do puppetting to make it fair in rank pvp because I don't use tc cards.

Explorer
Jan 27, 2011
97
Aaron SpellThief on Feb 18, 2014 wrote:
If you really think that shadow spells are not overpowered, try battling as a level 50 2300+ rating warlord against level 95s. The problem with shadow spells is that one, they take away the only advantage of ice, and of lower level warlords, and two, players that have shadow spells can get matched with players that cannot. The only advantages a lower level warlord has over the average higher level player are resist and strategy, or tactics, as you call them. Also, you might want to refer to a post on the pvp message board called, "PVP Within the Message boards." As for the original post, this is about treasure cards. It may not be about banning them, but the major issue is about whether or not to have a pvp that is without treasure cards. I do not think that this is a good idea, as I have stated previously. It would only be privates playing, as warlords would be paired with much higher level players that they could not hope to out-damage without treasure cards. These warlords would then not be able to get matches, as they are far less numerous than privates. Many people, such as me, play the game only for pvp. If pvp was broken even more, or separated so that the players that pay more won't get matches, Kingsisle would lose money. As you stated in your previous post that is impossible to know that match times increase until we try the system, well, that's just logic. If there are less players in the queue, then match times will certainly increase. It's just how much that we are not sure of.
I will stop you in the first sentence there because I have already explained this in one of my past posts. Every single one of my FRIENDS are Prometheans with Shadow Magic, and I know how to get around every single Shadow form because I practice fighting them all the time. So it's not OP, but then again that is my opinion as I continue to say lol.

And if you're a Warlord you should be fighting higher level and tougher opponents. What kind of a match is a Warlord vs. low level Private? A highly unbalanced one. When it came to TC I repeated said I'm on the fence about them, however when I got nothing but replies about TC and nothing else that is when I decided to remind people that this post is more than just purely TC related.

As far as the wait times go I thought I'd test it out a few days ago and timed multiple 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 matches. At my level, which is below, a 1v1 and 2v2 match wasn't too long of a wait clocking at a 5min maximum wait time. The 3v3 and 4v4 matches we had to wait 10min+ but that is to be expected when trying to pit the right teams together, in my opinion. I also studied how often I saw TC in matches and I can conclude that most of those who use TC are highly ranked, which is expected given the explanations on 'without TC we can't win'. However I rarely fought anyone above Captain, and most of my opponents didn't use TC outside of Tower Shield. Yes, I know this is my own match statistics but after about 30 matches or so of consistency I think it's safe to say that there are just as much people who don't use TC as there are that do. Quite honestly I always found PvPing near the level cap where your health and gear is fully maxed out to be easier for me, and Shadow Magic in my fights is pretty entertaining lol.

I see the problem with Warlords having less matches, however if the vast majority of Privates were given an easier option to become Warlords matches should pick up and go by faster, I would think. I think that's why there is such a long wait time as is, because we have more low ranks than high ranks. So when the system tries to put us together, it's left with guessing the level difference as well as the rank difference. Idk just a thought.

Glad someone was kind in their reply for once lol XD

Morgrim, Lvl. 86

Explorer
Jan 27, 2011
97
stormninja542 on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
Says the blind one who wants to change the topic "Make a new rank pvp for non tc user" to I hate pvp cause it's ruining the game. The OP wants the change the the title says or increase the resist of the waterworks gear. Thanks for the whines nightblood. The point is this compromise will make it nearly impossible for high ranked people to get a match and harder overall for people to find a match. I'm trying to say that this change is UNNECESSARY. You try to focus on a ridiculous "problem" that isn't a "problem."
The only one whining here is you because I put you in your place with the 2 power pip wands. As far as what the OP wants I don't care about nerfing/increasing gear stats, so the only one here changing the subject is you.

Again: you're blind. You're only thinking about the higher ranked people. The lower ranks have a lot easier time finding matches, since there's more lower ranked PvPers than there are higher ranked. I posted a friendly reply with Aaron Spellthief on this so I won't beat a dead horse here.

And technically you changed the subject by replying to me, I'm merely on the defensive. However I haven't lost my point of view thank you. I continually reiterated that I support the Classic Option in PvP and that I'm on the fence about TC, so try again. If you even went through and read my other posts fully you would of seen that.

So, good day.

Morgrim, Lvl. 86

Explorer
Jan 27, 2011
97
deathheart83 on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
A lot of people don't deserve the rank they have. They only have it because they use tc can rank be with out treasure cards.
Well I wouldn't go that far saying they don't deserve their rank. As Aaron Spellthief said: some players only play the game for PvP, which is common in a lot of MMOs. But I do agree with you on a system that lets you choose TC or no TC.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
kymma shadow on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
Maybe there puppetting because warlords use tc cards to much. Have you thought about that.

And I did do rank pvp with a lower lvl storm wizard and I got reported for so I reported them back for false report. And it was my balance name Amy.

And I will do puppetting to make it fair in rank pvp because I don't use tc cards.
The only reason warlords have to use treasure cards is either that they do not have all of the tools needed to win in normal cards, or they simply get unfair matches with much higher level players. For instance, a life magus wizard might use a myth mastery in order to be able to have a DoT and blade removal. This is completely fair. Some schools have more tools to win earlier on than others, and others don't have as many. Also, please tell me: How is it unfair to use level 68 treasure cards against a level 80, when you are level 50? That is the situation many players battle. Reporting for false reporting has the exact same consequences as false reporting. Finally, puppetting is not the equivalent of treasure cards, and never will be. Treasure cards even the odds. Puppetting force the odds to be extremely favorable to you, against how pvp was supposed to be played. Of the two, puppetting is the much greater evil, and many more players will rightfully be angry at you.

Champion
Feb 29, 2012
488
kymma shadow on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
Maybe there puppetting because warlords use tc cards to much. Have you thought about that.

And I did do rank pvp with a lower lvl storm wizard and I got reported for so I reported them back for false report. And it was my balance name Amy.

And I will do puppetting to make it fair in rank pvp because I don't use tc cards.
Kymma, while it may seem well and good to you, what if you face Privates who don't use treasure cards? You'll defeat them easily with the spells you have and it won't be fair to them. Stepping on people to work your way up isn't fair.

No matter how much people complain, treasure cards are there for everyone to use. If you don't use them to take the step up to your opponent's level of play, you're going to keep staying on the same step until you realize either how to win without them or how to win with them.

Champion
Feb 29, 2012
488
kymma shadow on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
Maybe the higher lvl wizards doesn't use tc card and ask a friend that 10 lvl lower then she is. Is that still puppetting?
A ten level gap isn't that extreme, so no, I wouldn't consider it puppeting.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
kymma shadow on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
Maybe there puppetting because warlords use tc cards to much. Have you thought about that.

And I did do rank pvp with a lower lvl storm wizard and I got reported for so I reported them back for false report. And it was my balance name Amy.

And I will do puppetting to make it fair in rank pvp because I don't use tc cards.
And have you ever thought of learning what puppetting means, cause it has nothing to do with tc. If someone false reports you, you are not supposed to report them back.

Delver
Jan 31, 2012
226
stormninja542 on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
And have you ever thought of learning what puppetting means, cause it has nothing to do with tc. If someone false reports you, you are not supposed to report them back.
I reported back because I was going in a rank pvp match with a really low lvl wizard. I was trying help him and I didn't want to get logged off and losing points unfairly.

Delver
Jan 31, 2012
226
This is not about tc cards it for uprade waterworks gear not tc cards or put a outfit for privates that have resistance please. Just a little better then the waterworks gear.

Survivor
Oct 21, 2011
1
Sometimes I have a problem with pvp because of high critical, I am only level 54 warlord and I get people with over 100-150 critical... I've faced a level 33 with over 73 critical...

Defender
Jun 24, 2009
195
kymma shadow on Feb 20, 2014 wrote:
I reported back because I was going in a rank pvp match with a really low lvl wizard. I was trying help him and I didn't want to get logged off and losing points unfairly.
You clearly did not click the I provided earlier in the topic which details what you cannot, under any circumstances, report for. The only exception is when people are cussing around the filters. Otherwise you cannot report for those reasons. False reporting is one of them. As Prospector Zeke said: "2 wrongs do not make a right"

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Nightblood1995 on Feb 19, 2014 wrote:
The only one whining here is you because I put you in your place with the 2 power pip wands. As far as what the OP wants I don't care about nerfing/increasing gear stats, so the only one here changing the subject is you.

Again: you're blind. You're only thinking about the higher ranked people. The lower ranks have a lot easier time finding matches, since there's more lower ranked PvPers than there are higher ranked. I posted a friendly reply with Aaron Spellthief on this so I won't beat a dead horse here.

And technically you changed the subject by replying to me, I'm merely on the defensive. However I haven't lost my point of view thank you. I continually reiterated that I support the Classic Option in PvP and that I'm on the fence about TC, so try again. If you even went through and read my other posts fully you would of seen that.

So, good day.

Morgrim, Lvl. 86
Since there are more lower ranked people it will still make it easier for lower ranks to get a match but you obviously don't care for the higher ranks with this change you try to make. How did I change the subject, ever mention that? I'm merely saying that YOUR idea is ridiculous, but at the same time you try to change this post to why pvp should be removed from the game.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
kymma shadow on Feb 20, 2014 wrote:
I reported back because I was going in a rank pvp match with a really low lvl wizard. I was trying help him and I didn't want to get logged off and losing points unfairly.
Not a very good excuse for reporting back.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
kymma shadow on Feb 20, 2014 wrote:
This is not about tc cards it for uprade waterworks gear not tc cards or put a outfit for privates that have resistance please. Just a little better then the waterworks gear.
Waterworks gear is good enough. It's pretty much the best set of gear until you get hades' gear (unless you count the crafting gear).