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Who is OP in PVP, not Balance for sure.

AuthorMessage
Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
PvP King on Oct 31, 2014 wrote:
I said that the player's main wizard isn't Balance, quit trying to change up my words.
Balance IS one of my main wizards. I wouldn't say any is my "main". Balance, Storm, Myth and to lesser extent Life are my favorite to play depending on situation. I have Death and Ice also, Fire is the only school I really don't have a desire to play, it just doesn't fit with my various styles of play.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 1, 2014 wrote:
In a real PvP situation I wouldn't be using the gear you cited. In a stat to stat comparison you must compare similar gear and as I stated: The divine amulet is an effective amulet with all classes.

Since when do you think somebody would compare a 3 pip minion to a 0 pip minion?
Your original statement had no parameters. You stated balance had the lowest health minion. As I previously stated: if you said balance has the lowest health 3 pip minion you are correct.

1)I am glad you agree because I wasn't arguing that mana burn is overpowered.

2)Mana Burn's dpp is incredibly variable. I don't even know how to calculate an average dpp for the spell.

I agree that every school has a staple spell but I do believe those staple spells should be balanced. That's why you see me arguing for a nerf to Insane Bolt, why I was at the forefront arguing for a nerf to guardian spirit etc

As I have repeatedly stated, I do not want loremaster taken away from the class, simply re balanced.
I can't control what your sense of "good gear" is, so I'll just have to respect your opinion on that one. I still think, however, that Balance needs a Mastery Amulet so it can cover up its weaknesses. In result, that's why you see many Balance wizards with Death Mastery Amulets on the Leaderboard and the ones who don't possess a mastery on the lower spectrum of ranks.

My original statement compared the Helpful Mander to the 3 pip version of every single minion. Not the 4 pip version of Cyclops, not the 14 pip version of Animate, but the 3 pip versions of everything. And now you know that what I meant is correct, so there's no need to argue about it.

I'm not sure how to calculate Mana Burn's dpp, unless you range it from 0-224 dpp (using 5 pips from the caster) with 100% accuracy. The middle ground of Mana Burn's damage per pip is 112, still above Loremaster's average dpp because its pip cost is 5 pips. Still, Mana Burn does 80 damage per the opponent's pip, at the cost of 5 pips, so I'm not sure how to compare the two or how to mathematically prove anything about Mana Burn.

"I agree that every school has a staple spell but I do believe that those staple spells should be balanced." Which is why, in my opinion, I don't want Loremaster to be nerfed. Other schools have their staple spells, others as overpowered or even more overpowered than Loremaster, but many people are attacking Balance because of Loremaster, which I find strange. I'm assuming most are accusing Loremaster of being overpowered because they lost to somebody more than actually doing the math to prove that it's overpowered, but if Loremaster were to be nerfed, I want Insane Bolt to deal much lower damage, Guardian Spirit (to be a 1x spell like Reshuffle, but not limit the amount you can carry), Winter Moon to do less damage, Bad Juju to be a non-cloaked spell, Myth's King Artorius to deal less damage, and for many other schools to "take one for the team" if Loremaster is going to be nerfed. To me, it's not fair to have one school's powerful spell be nerfed and have every other school's powerful spell remain the same.

Some things I would like to point out, however, are that Balance has been getting the worst of everything recently. For example:
-Power Play is the most useless spell and costs 4 pips instead of 2 like the other globals, why?
-Helpful Mander got nerfed a few years back and doesn't have Spirit Shield or Sprite anymore, why?
-Sharpened Blade benefits Balance the least due to their unreliability with blades
-Potent Trap benefits Balance the least as well
-Balance's dpp dipped under Ice's dpp for years, why?
-Balance's health dipped under Life's health now and is 3rd place for highest health, why?

Balance has been getting slowly nerfed within each update, Loremaster helped pick Balance up as I see it. As long as other schools have their "overpowered" spells, Loremaster isn't overpowered either.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 1, 2014 wrote:
Happy Halloween to you too. I hope everyone stuffed their faces full of candy lol.

I'll go line by line and examine your items.

-Heckhound: DoT(gains dpp) and pays a price(x pip drains all pips)-Balanced

-Storm Owl: Rank 10 spell with no effect gains more dpp as all other Rank 10's do and is consistent with more pips for more dpp-Balanced

-Insane Bolt- Chance of Death each cast(pays a price), price is too low according to my math-Overpowered but consistent with paying a price for massive increased dpp.

-Wild Bolt- Pays a price for chance of massive dpp. Vast majority of the time deals less dpp than any 2 pip spell in the game-Balanced

-Handsome Fomoori-High end but still balanced(similar to how judgement and samoorai are high end for balance but still balanced)

-Wintermoon- Agreed, overpowered

-Spinysaur-DoT(increases dpp) and Rank 10(increases dpp further)- Balanced

-Deer Knight/Skeletal Dragon- DoTs(higher dpp)-Balanced

-Ninja Pigs-Pays a consequence for its increased dpp- Balanced

As you can see all of these spells except wintermoon consistently follow the rules and hence are balanced. The increase in damage is accounted for with either consequential effects(Ninja Pigs, Wild bolt, Insane Bolt) or the nature of the spell being a DoT or high rank spell(Spinysaur, Deer Knight, Heckhound, Storm Owl). Loremaster is a spell that has an increased dpp and 2 additional effects with NO consequential effect on the spell and while remaining at a low pip cost.
Eric,

Heckhound is an X-Pip, and it has 130 dpp while Fire's average is only 110.
Being a DOT does not give an increase of this degree to other schools.

Storm Owl, more pips for more damage, but how about keeping it the same percentage
increase as the other spells, which it is not....

*Insane Bolt is out of control, when it can be cast three times in a row, and not hit
the caster, it's a problem. I'm glad you agree this is overpowered.
Wild Bolt, Storm's average is 130 (as I remember), and Wild Bolt hits an average of
185 dpp on average, yes Overpowered. Plus, don't forget that Storm has the most
damage, highest critical in the game. Talk about Overpowered, yes, this when
enchanted or unenchanted fits the bill perfectly.

I have no real argument on Spiny or Skeletal, but they are high end.

Deer Knight is DOT but is also AAT, so it should drop in dpp or break even.
It does not, and the percentage of increase is much higher than LoreMaster.
Deer Knight is not Balanced, it's very unbalanced, and needs a nerf.

The increase in Ninja Pigs does not match the minor decrease in accuracy.
Still the percentage of increase is huge even after taking in the decrease in accuracy.
This spell may well be the most overpowered spell in the game.
So, Ninja Pigs needs a nerf.

Agreed, Winter Moom and SAvage Paw are also overpowered and need a nerf if
LoreMaster is Nerfed.

Ok, this overpowered list is getting out of control, maybe I should list it.

1. Heckhound, Overpowered, no DOT has this kind of increase in the game, especially
at this level (22).

2. Insane Bolt, at 1000 damage, and a 80% rate of sucess, it's clearly way overpowered.
Even storms low Life doesn't make up for this huge increase in damage, with only a 20%
chance of being self hit.

3.Wild Bolt, at 185 dpp average is way overpowered and for no reason. Any can say it can
be the lowest hit in the game, but with Stroms high damage and unreasonable critical,
I would have to just grin at that statement. I have been hit with very few unenchanted Wild Bolts.

4.Deer Knight, yes a DOT and (AAE/AAT), that does not follow the rules of a AAE. It's
damage is way too high, based on the percentage of increase.

5. Ninja Pigs, way way overpowered, the percentage of increase is hugh. This spell needs
to be nerfed, before any others in the list.

6. Winter Moon, agree overpowered.

7. Savage Paw, agree overpowered.

8. LoreMaster, while spectral blast is at 113 dpp, LoreMaster is at 107.5 dpp with two
REDUCED aftereffects. Seems Balanced to me, no nerf required. Actually, this spells
should be required to correct the reduced hit of Hydra. Hydra should have been designed
around Spectral Blast. This pattern would seem correct, if you look at Chimera.

So, we clearly have at least 7 spells that are well overpowered, while LoreMaster pretty
much blends in well with Balance spells. How you can agree that some are OverPowered,
and others that have massive increases are not?

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
After a long argument, many points given, a few replies from Greyrose, and having 11 pages written, I think it's time for a recap on what we've discussed on Balance's position as a school:
We all agree that...
-There is a rule for spells
-Many spells break many rules
-Balance's 3 pip minion has the lowest health
-Balance's blades are the least effective in single play
-Balance has the hardest time keeping their blades
-Balance has the least amount of shields to stop it, due to the fact that its blades are weak and hard to stack
-Loremaster hits hard for a Balance spell
-Spectral Blast does more on average than Loremaster
-Spectral Blast follows the Elemental school rules for dpp
-There are many overpowered spells in PvP that Balance doesn't have
-Aftereffects should be rated by how potent they are
-Mana Burn isn't overpowered
-Supernova isn't overpowered

With this great deal of information, I can't find myself to think exactly how Balance is overpowered compared to other schools. Yes, Balance did get two very useful spells in the Avalon update, but it's been that way since 2012, with most complaints centered down on Life and Ice. At the beginning of the Aquila update, many complained about Storm for its overpowered offensive stats, but it was disproved mathematically since Storm wizards with massive critical rating have low block rating. I believe that in this discussion, comparing Loremaster to a spell such as Ninja Pigs, and comparing it to other staple spells, Loremaster, several times, has been mathematically proven to not be overpowered.

You can even compare Spectral Blast to Loremaster, and Eric said that Spectral Blast follows the Elemental school dpp. As I said before, 1 Myth damage is the same as 1 Balance damage, so the type of damage does not matter. Spectral Blast is a Balance spell and Loremaster does less than it by average, and I believe that Loremaster is justified and that Balance should be untouched.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
PvP King on Nov 1, 2014 wrote:
I can't control what your sense of "good gear" is, so I'll just have to respect your opinion on that one. I still think, however, that Balance needs a Mastery Amulet so it can cover up its weaknesses. In result, that's why you see many Balance wizards with Death Mastery Amulets on the Leaderboard and the ones who don't possess a mastery on the lower spectrum of ranks.

My original statement compared the Helpful Mander to the 3 pip version of every single minion. Not the 4 pip version of Cyclops, not the 14 pip version of Animate, but the 3 pip versions of everything. And now you know that what I meant is correct, so there's no need to argue about it.

I'm not sure how to calculate Mana Burn's dpp, unless you range it from 0-224 dpp (using 5 pips from the caster) with 100% accuracy. The middle ground of Mana Burn's damage per pip is 112, still above Loremaster's average dpp because its pip cost is 5 pips. Still, Mana Burn does 80 damage per the opponent's pip, at the cost of 5 pips, so I'm not sure how to compare the two or how to mathematically prove anything about Mana Burn.

"I agree that every school has a staple spell but I do believe that those staple spells should be balanced." Which is why, in my opinion, I don't want Loremaster to be nerfed. Other schools have their staple spells, others as overpowered or even more overpowered than Loremaster, but many people are attacking Balance because of Loremaster, which I find strange. I'm assuming most are accusing Loremaster of being overpowered because they lost to somebody more than actually doing the math to prove that it's overpowered, but if Loremaster were to be nerfed, I want Insane Bolt to deal much lower damage, Guardian Spirit (to be a 1x spell like Reshuffle, but not limit the amount you can carry), Winter Moon to do less damage, Bad Juju to be a non-cloaked spell, Myth's King Artorius to deal less damage, and for many other schools to "take one for the team" if Loremaster is going to be nerfed. To me, it's not fair to have one school's powerful spell be nerfed and have every other school's powerful spell remain the same.

Some things I would like to point out, however, are that Balance has been getting the worst of everything recently. For example:
-Power Play is the most useless spell and costs 4 pips instead of 2 like the other globals, why?
-Helpful Mander got nerfed a few years back and doesn't have Spirit Shield or Sprite anymore, why?
-Sharpened Blade benefits Balance the least due to their unreliability with blades
-Potent Trap benefits Balance the least as well
-Balance's dpp dipped under Ice's dpp for years, why?
-Balance's health dipped under Life's health now and is 3rd place for highest health, why?

Balance has been getting slowly nerfed within each update, Loremaster helped pick Balance up as I see it. As long as other schools have their "overpowered" spells, Loremaster isn't overpowered either.
The best fix to insane bolt would be to lower it's success rate to 70%. Guardian Spirit was already nerfed so I don't foresee another. Agreed on Wintermoon, Bad Juju is quite balanced, the problem is with jade gear: the gift that keeps on giving. Myth's King Artorious is actually very well balanced dealing 107 dpp. The reason it seems so powerful is because it is the most backloaded DoT in the game.

-Agreed on Powerplay, they should really change it. My suggestion: +20% balance damage +5% universal pierce(2 pips)

-Helpful Mander wasn't the only minion nerfed. The Storm minion lost its only attack rendering it from marginally useful to slightly above useless.

-Sharpened Blade Potent Trap actually benefits the balance school as a whole the most since it has the most versions of blades and traps.

-Balance's dpp has been above or at ice's in almost all cases except Ice's DoT's which makes sense as DoT's do more damage per pip.

-Balance's health dip- I am not sure why but I would assume it would be to emphasize life and ice as the defensive schools.

Whether the other school's have overpowered spells or not doesn't make loremaster any less overpowered.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Veracity8 on Nov 1, 2014 wrote:
Eric,

Heckhound is an X-Pip, and it has 130 dpp while Fire's average is only 110.
Being a DOT does not give an increase of this degree to other schools.

Storm Owl, more pips for more damage, but how about keeping it the same percentage
increase as the other spells, which it is not....

*Insane Bolt is out of control, when it can be cast three times in a row, and not hit
the caster, it's a problem. I'm glad you agree this is overpowered.
Wild Bolt, Storm's average is 130 (as I remember), and Wild Bolt hits an average of
185 dpp on average, yes Overpowered. Plus, don't forget that Storm has the most
damage, highest critical in the game. Talk about Overpowered, yes, this when
enchanted or unenchanted fits the bill perfectly.

I have no real argument on Spiny or Skeletal, but they are high end.

Deer Knight is DOT but is also AAT, so it should drop in dpp or break even.
It does not, and the percentage of increase is much higher than LoreMaster.
Deer Knight is not Balanced, it's very unbalanced, and needs a nerf.

The increase in Ninja Pigs does not match the minor decrease in accuracy.
Still the percentage of increase is huge even after taking in the decrease in accuracy.
This spell may well be the most overpowered spell in the game.
So, Ninja Pigs needs a nerf.

Agreed, Winter Moom and SAvage Paw are also overpowered and need a nerf if
LoreMaster is Nerfed.

Ok, this overpowered list is getting out of control, maybe I should list it.

1. Heckhound, Overpowered, no DOT has this kind of increase in the game, especially
at this level (22).

2. Insane Bolt, at 1000 damage, and a 80% rate of sucess, it's clearly way overpowered.
Even storms low Life doesn't make up for this huge increase in damage, with only a 20%
chance of being self hit.

3.Wild Bolt, at 185 dpp average is way overpowered and for no reason. Any can say it can
be the lowest hit in the game, but with Stroms high damage and unreasonable critical,
I would have to just grin at that statement. I have been hit with very few unenchanted Wild Bolts.

4.Deer Knight, yes a DOT and (AAE/AAT), that does not follow the rules of a AAE. It's
damage is way too high, based on the percentage of increase.

5. Ninja Pigs, way way overpowered, the percentage of increase is hugh. This spell needs
to be nerfed, before any others in the list.

6. Winter Moon, agree overpowered.

7. Savage Paw, agree overpowered.

8. LoreMaster, while spectral blast is at 113 dpp, LoreMaster is at 107.5 dpp with two
REDUCED aftereffects. Seems Balanced to me, no nerf required. Actually, this spells
should be required to correct the reduced hit of Hydra. Hydra should have been designed
around Spectral Blast. This pattern would seem correct, if you look at Chimera.

So, we clearly have at least 7 spells that are well overpowered, while LoreMaster pretty
much blends in well with Balance spells. How you can agree that some are OverPowered,
and others that have massive increases are not?
Heckhound- Actualy DoT's do tend to increase by 20 dpp or more. Look at Skeletal Dragon, Spinysaur, Poison. Combined with Heckhound's x pip status it is perfectly balanced.

Wildbolt is not overpowered- Enchanted every other school spell will deal more damage than it 66% of the time.

Deer Knight- Deer Knight is a DoT/AoE. The precedent shows that DoT/AoE's still deal above dpp in all cases except scald(which is a strong argument that scald is underpowered)

Ninja Pigs- Whether the accuracy decrease warrants the increased dpp is up for debate but what is consistent is that it does pay a price for its increased dpp.

We have already examined that Spectral Blast does not follow the same dpp scale as balance damage spells and as such isn't directly comparable to Loremaster. Loremaster has the highest dpp of balance damage spells+2 effects while paying no price. That does need to be nerfed.

The only spells we agree are overpowered from the above list are Insane Bolt, Savage Paw, Wintermoon.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
@PvP King- Made a mistake on my calculation of Myth King Artorious- It is actually at 134 dpp which is indeed extremely powerful for a myth spell.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 3, 2014 wrote:
@PvP King- Made a mistake on my calculation of Myth King Artorious- It is actually at 134 dpp which is indeed extremely powerful for a myth spell.
Yeah, and it has 2 aftereffects in comparison to Skeletal Dragon (127 dpp with no aftereffects). I believe that Myth's King Artorius should have its damage nerfed down to under Skeletal Dragon's dpp to make the spell more balanced. However, currently Myth's King Artorius is far more unbalanced than Balance's Loremaster.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 3, 2014 wrote:
Heckhound- Actualy DoT's do tend to increase by 20 dpp or more. Look at Skeletal Dragon, Spinysaur, Poison. Combined with Heckhound's x pip status it is perfectly balanced.

Wildbolt is not overpowered- Enchanted every other school spell will deal more damage than it 66% of the time.

Deer Knight- Deer Knight is a DoT/AoE. The precedent shows that DoT/AoE's still deal above dpp in all cases except scald(which is a strong argument that scald is underpowered)

Ninja Pigs- Whether the accuracy decrease warrants the increased dpp is up for debate but what is consistent is that it does pay a price for its increased dpp.

We have already examined that Spectral Blast does not follow the same dpp scale as balance damage spells and as such isn't directly comparable to Loremaster. Loremaster has the highest dpp of balance damage spells+2 effects while paying no price. That does need to be nerfed.

The only spells we agree are overpowered from the above list are Insane Bolt, Savage Paw, Wintermoon.
About Wild Bolt, yes, other 2 pip spells will deal more damage 66% of the time, but you also have to take into account how much more damage that 33% from Wild Bolt will be doing. To do that, I'll compare Wild Bolt's 10 hit, 100 hit, and 1000 hit to every other school's 2 pip non-situational spell casted 3 times
Wild Bolt: 1110 damage casted 3 times
Fire Elf: 930 damage casted 3 times
Lightning Bats (max):855 damage casted 3 times
Snow Serpent (max): 585 damage casted 3 times
Ghoul: 480 damage casted 3 times
Leprechaun (max): 585 damage casted 3 times
Scorpion (max): 600 damage casted 3 times

You can compare Wild Bolt's 3 hits dealing 10, 100, and then 1000 to the highest damaging 2 pip non-situational spell, Fire Elf. DoT's are meant to do more damage than single hits, however 3 Wild Bolts on average will do 180 more damage than 3 Fire Elves, which is why the spell can be accused of being overpowered. Compared to Lightning Bats, Storm's own spell, Wild Bolt is doing 280 more damage at least, so the spell is definitely overpowered compared to all other school's 2 pip non-situational spells.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 3, 2014 wrote:
The best fix to insane bolt would be to lower it's success rate to 70%. Guardian Spirit was already nerfed so I don't foresee another. Agreed on Wintermoon, Bad Juju is quite balanced, the problem is with jade gear: the gift that keeps on giving. Myth's King Artorious is actually very well balanced dealing 107 dpp. The reason it seems so powerful is because it is the most backloaded DoT in the game.

-Agreed on Powerplay, they should really change it. My suggestion: +20% balance damage +5% universal pierce(2 pips)

-Helpful Mander wasn't the only minion nerfed. The Storm minion lost its only attack rendering it from marginally useful to slightly above useless.

-Sharpened Blade Potent Trap actually benefits the balance school as a whole the most since it has the most versions of blades and traps.

-Balance's dpp has been above or at ice's in almost all cases except Ice's DoT's which makes sense as DoT's do more damage per pip.

-Balance's health dip- I am not sure why but I would assume it would be to emphasize life and ice as the defensive schools.

Whether the other school's have overpowered spells or not doesn't make loremaster any less overpowered.
I personally believe Insane Bolt should be an x-3+ pip spell, where you need at least 3 pips to cast it, and if you have above that number it takes all of your pips so the spell can't be spammed. After all, it is called "Insane Bolt," and using 3-14 pips to try to defeat your opponent with a 20% fail rate is pretty insane, perfect for a last resort.

Guardian Spirit was nerfed so I do believe that KingsIsle might not nerf it any more, but I think the spell should give 25% health back as it used to but be limited to one cast per match, that way it would be far more fair of a spell.

The problem with Bad Juju is with Jade gear, yes, and if a spell can perfectly combine with a gear set to make an extremely overpowered strategy, I think Bad Juju needs a nerf. I think that that nerf should be that Bad Juju can't be cloaked, so spamming cannot be done with Jade gear.

I agree that Power Play should have a different use and be changed to 2 pips.

Storm's old minion used to have only attacks before PvP started. After that, it was given an increase in health and became a defensive minion with only Ghoul as an attack, but because it had its health increased and had an added amount of shields and heals and drains, KingsIsle took away Ghoul from Water Elemental. However, the Helpful Mander didn't get a health increase as its spells were taken away from it, so the Helpful Mander is indeed the only spell that actually got nerfed and gained nothing in return.

Sharpened Blade benefits all other schools far more than Balance. It is rare that a Balance wizard will stack for a Hydra, Spectral Blast, or Chimera, and if they do, they don't have the spells to remove 70% shields (or a spell to increase their armor pierce high enough, since Counterforce does not boost armor pierce to Balance's Elemental/Spirit attacks), which is where Balance's "advantage" with Sharpened Blade and Potent Trap melts away. Plus, if they were to remove a Weakness, the Balanceblades and Bladestorms would go away with them, so therefore Balance only has 2 easily stackable blades, which do not benefit its own school attacks.

Balance has dipped under Ice's dpp for a long time. This can be seen comparing Power Nova to Frost Giant, Ra to Snow Angel, and can do less than Ice when comparing Hydra to Colossus.

"Whether the other school's have overpowered spells or not doesn't make loremaster any less overpowered." Would you like to refer to this?
http://www.duelist101.com/other-articles/duelist-discussions-can-ki-balance-meta/

If other schools have overpowered spells, then the assumed overpowered spells aren't overpowered anymore. This is already seen when trying to prove Loremaster overpowered, but being shown that since many other spells are overpowered, Loremaster simply follows the new spell trend.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
PvP King stated,
"If you keep up making up more rules of "the nature of this spell"
and then keep adding to it, it's clear that you're not sure if the
rules are correct either."

I thought about this statement, and the obvious hit me, not only do
spells have ranges, like Samoorai 460 to 560, but the Wizards also
have ranges. You guys may have already figured this out, but it
finally hit me when I read PvP Kings statement.

So, when I kept hitting on the idea of average dpp, and percentage
of growth wasn't reasonable, it was wrong.

Death has an allowable range of 85 to 114 dpp plus.
Myth has an allowable range of 90 to 128 dbb plus.
Storm has an allowable range of 125 185 plus.
Balance has an allowable range of 85 to 113 plus.

We already know the range is dynamic and is constantly in flux
as crafted spells are release (not to mention the new test
realm spells.

The idea of you have to stay within a range of the dpp, is
old school thought now, imo.

So, if the range of Balance right now is 85 to 113, that means that
Loremaster fits in perfectly with 107.5 dpp and two reduced aftereffects.
It's not the nature of the Spell, it's the Nature of the Wizard,
that controls the dpp and aftereffects of the spell.

This makes perfect sense why the spells are created this way, and why
so many fall outside a set of rules and appear to be overpowered.
Actually, they are designed exactly as they should be and are not
overpowered to any degree.

Just because the old spells followed a certain treand, does not mean that
that treand was a set of rules that needed to be followed. I think the new
Test Realm spells show that the rules and limits are constantly in flux.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
@Veracity and PvPKing

It does seem that KI has tossed out their prior precedents when it comes to the new shadow enhanced spells which deal far more dpp than anything we have ever experienced. In terms of the Lore spells it seems as if KI has decided to make them all as overpowered as Loremaster is. Whether this is the correct solution only time will tell.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 5, 2014 wrote:
@Veracity and PvPKing

It does seem that KI has tossed out their prior precedents when it comes to the new shadow enhanced spells which deal far more dpp than anything we have ever experienced. In terms of the Lore spells it seems as if KI has decided to make them all as overpowered as Loremaster is. Whether this is the correct solution only time will tell.
If the new spells make it out of test intact, this whole argument is moot. The new shadow enhanced spells are just ridiculously OP. Allowing what is basically Storm Owl + Enfeeble to All on first turn is just crazy OP. I know you don't get a shadow pip always, but I'd say I start with 5 pips and 1 shadow about 60-70% of the time.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
seethe42 on Nov 5, 2014 wrote:
If the new spells make it out of test intact, this whole argument is moot. The new shadow enhanced spells are just ridiculously OP. Allowing what is basically Storm Owl + Enfeeble to All on first turn is just crazy OP. I know you don't get a shadow pip always, but I'd say I start with 5 pips and 1 shadow about 60-70% of the time.
The new items let you start with Shadow pips, so one can certainly one hit kill with these spells. I also agree that the Test Realm did shut down the argument that we've had, which makes me believe that KingsIsle really did use this thread to figure out what to do with Lore spells, but I don't think that the Shadow enhanced spells were the right solution.. I would much rather have Loremaster be nerfed than have every school get an overpowered spell.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
PvP King on Nov 5, 2014 wrote:
The new items let you start with Shadow pips, so one can certainly one hit kill with these spells. I also agree that the Test Realm did shut down the argument that we've had, which makes me believe that KingsIsle really did use this thread to figure out what to do with Lore spells, but I don't think that the Shadow enhanced spells were the right solution.. I would much rather have Loremaster be nerfed than have every school get an overpowered spell.
They only give shadow pip chance not a starting shadow pip. I am not going to comment much on these spells until we see the gear because from what I have been seeing health buffers have been increased a ton.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 5, 2014 wrote:
They only give shadow pip chance not a starting shadow pip. I am not going to comment much on these spells until we see the gear because from what I have been seeing health buffers have been increased a ton.
Yes, health has increased a lot with the gear, but our block rating drops in return. Storm gets 73% damage from their hat, robe, and boots alone, and their armor pierce increases dramatically with the new gear. I find that the new spells are still too powerful, as health has increased only by 500 at most for many schools.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
PvP King,

I believe you are correct, they did correct the spells based directly on this post.

Eric,

I bow to the player with more insight and knowledge, seems you were right on.