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Who is OP in PVP, not Balance for sure.

AuthorMessage
Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
Wow, all this OP stuff is gettng out of control.

Who is level 95 and at the top of the Leader Boards?
Last time I looked it was Storm, and there are a lot
of Storm at the top of the Leader boards at Level 95.
But, all I see is that Balance is OP at 95, not so at all.

Why does Balance have Super Nova, it's pretty
simple. At the time it did not have a damage Global
it could put up. It needed some way to cut down
on the incomming damage. Anyway, this spell is
just about worthless in PvP, as no one puts up
an aura, as soon as they know your a Balance.
That is at the beginning of the match, so it's
not a big deal.

Mana Burn, three pips for three pips, and normally
mininal damage. Yes, it's a good delay to allow you
to search for cards, but it's can't be spammed.
Plus, anyone that has played a few matches, knows to
start spending your pips as soon as they see a Balance.
From Second it's hard to use, from first, you may get
a solid hit in, but the person second is most likely
going to use their pips anyway.
I see this spell as little more than a delay, and a
way to delay or slow heals (most of the time).
About it's only real advanage, it can stop the
really big OHKO's or delay them.

Let's not even bring up the fact that most PVP
players set for Balance, and have a ton of
Balance Dispels in their deck..... or have
increased resistance to Balance.

How does Balance stop blade stacking?
How does Balance stop Shadow magic?
How does it stop feint stacking, etc?

Oh, they can Mana burn your two pips, yep,
great choice.

Oh they can Black Mantel, yep, but that is often
just powered through, with the new High Accuracy
gear. What's left, the only good choice they have
is to stuff some Loremaster in the deck.....

Woot, the craftable spell Loremaster, the most
awesome spell of all time, a one hit nuke
destruction... well, maybe not in my eyes.

Does Balance have Efreet, or enfeeble, shift,
medusa, Guardian spirit, plague, Power Link,
Bad JuJu, Lum Weaver, Triage, Gnomes, a Stun,
Dimensional shift, Snow dift, or Winter Moon.
No.... it does not, it just has LoreMaster, if
they can even get it as a drop or craft it.

All other schools have their way to deal with
LoreMaster, and have spells that compare or are
even better.
So, please stop all the OP stuff.
It's mainly just hyped up "Balance has a good
spell that's comparable to mine, and that ain't
right..... ".

Anyone got a reasonable reply?

Explorer
Apr 26, 2010
62
I think that each of the schools can be played well enough in pvp. But I would easily put balance in the top 3. With over 4500 health, you can get close to 100% damage, and over 400 critical, with supernova and mana burn (way better than the Avalon spells of any other school) I would say balance is top level in pvp. If anything, op, not underpowered.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1557
Balance is the hardest school to play in the higher ranks of PvP. Every match I did in the past few weeks I had people set for me, and with no viable way of stacking blades and traps to make an efficient OHKO, Balance is an extremely hard school to win with against a setter. On Duelist101, there is a post regarding the same ideas where two people argued about Balance. http://www.duelist101.com/other-articles/duelist-discussions-can-ki-balance-meta/
Corwin ShadowForge made an argument down in the comments that Balance isn't overpowered and brought up the same points you did. There is absolutely no main card spell where Balance can defend from Dark Nova, traps, or even recover their health all at once. People can argue that Balance wizards can use treasure cards but those are only good until your first Reshuffle where you run out of treasure cards. He also compared Balance to other school's spells and said that there were 3 attacks that were truly "overpowered", mentioning that Supernova and Mana Burn are only situational cards whereas Guardian Spirit, Bolt, Power Link, Efreet, etc. are not. I do think personally that Fire or Myth are the most overpowered schools in this meta followed by Death with their all-new Jade strategy then Balance lies somewhere in the middle, but people being too lazy to limit their pip amount in a match is causing the mislead image that Balance is overpowered. Like I said in another post, if Balance didn't have Mana Burn, Loremaster, Supernova, or Judgement, its best attack would be a pathetic Locust Swarm, which does less than most spells on its own.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
Team yoloswag on Sep 10, 2014 wrote:
I think that each of the schools can be played well enough in pvp. But I would easily put balance in the top 3. With over 4500 health, you can get close to 100% damage, and over 400 critical, with supernova and mana burn (way better than the Avalon spells of any other school) I would say balance is top level in pvp. If anything, op, not underpowered.
I don't see where Balance is overpowered at all, unless you add in Loremaster. Even then
I only see it as an upper tier school, not an over Powered school.
Nova is really useless in PvP, as anyone that knows your a Balance won't allow you to use it.
Same with Mana Burn, and it's hard to use with dispels on you over and over.
I have seen so many Balance dispels in pvp in the last month, I'm thinking of switching back to
my Myth or Ice.
Spamming dispels and high resist to balance makes them under Powered if anything, at least
that's what I think.

A balance from first or second has a hard time against Ice, who steals their heals.
Storm is still the best school in the game, especially at level 95.
The Jade Life and Jade Death can shut down most Balance, plus most other schools.
Myth is just about unstoppable if played by someone that knows how to play them.

I just see Balance as a good school, that if they have LoreMaster, can finally play a
competitive match.

Survivor
Sep 23, 2011
30
Team yoloswag on Sep 10, 2014 wrote:
I think that each of the schools can be played well enough in pvp. But I would easily put balance in the top 3. With over 4500 health, you can get close to 100% damage, and over 400 critical, with supernova and mana burn (way better than the Avalon spells of any other school) I would say balance is top level in pvp. If anything, op, not underpowered.
please don't we all know that sirens is the most overused op spell in the entire spiral. we all know shadow came because mainly storm cried so much about jade gear. A hit all spell that does heavy damage steals 2 pips and puts up a -50 accuracy is overpowered. It is worse then a judgement that only attacks one. And although fire crie not as much as storm does. storm wants all the power with no weakness and thats exactly what they got. Current for heals wand for accuracy wow only health is a concern? So Storm should be able to wipe everyone in pvp and not change strategy like everyone else yeah ok. anytime storm cant win they get mad. Balance has no attack all spell outside of Ra which was given way back a long time ago. no stun and no over time spells that can be trained. Ki would have been smart to put steel giant on a pet card or made it trainable.

Survivor
May 12, 2009
49
shadowbalance36 on Sep 11, 2014 wrote:
please don't we all know that sirens is the most overused op spell in the entire spiral. we all know shadow came because mainly storm cried so much about jade gear. A hit all spell that does heavy damage steals 2 pips and puts up a -50 accuracy is overpowered. It is worse then a judgement that only attacks one. And although fire crie not as much as storm does. storm wants all the power with no weakness and thats exactly what they got. Current for heals wand for accuracy wow only health is a concern? So Storm should be able to wipe everyone in pvp and not change strategy like everyone else yeah ok. anytime storm cant win they get mad. Balance has no attack all spell outside of Ra which was given way back a long time ago. no stun and no over time spells that can be trained. Ki would have been smart to put steel giant on a pet card or made it trainable.
"balance has no attack all spell outside of ra which was given way back a long time ago"
ra hits very hard and is basically balance version of forest lord.
balance also has sandstorm and powernova in case you forgot

Survivor
May 12, 2009
49
Veracity8 on Sep 10, 2014 wrote:
Wow, all this OP stuff is gettng out of control.

Who is level 95 and at the top of the Leader Boards?
Last time I looked it was Storm, and there are a lot
of Storm at the top of the Leader boards at Level 95.
But, all I see is that Balance is OP at 95, not so at all.

Why does Balance have Super Nova, it's pretty
simple. At the time it did not have a damage Global
it could put up. It needed some way to cut down
on the incomming damage. Anyway, this spell is
just about worthless in PvP, as no one puts up
an aura, as soon as they know your a Balance.
That is at the beginning of the match, so it's
not a big deal.

Mana Burn, three pips for three pips, and normally
mininal damage. Yes, it's a good delay to allow you
to search for cards, but it's can't be spammed.
Plus, anyone that has played a few matches, knows to
start spending your pips as soon as they see a Balance.
From Second it's hard to use, from first, you may get
a solid hit in, but the person second is most likely
going to use their pips anyway.
I see this spell as little more than a delay, and a
way to delay or slow heals (most of the time).
About it's only real advanage, it can stop the
really big OHKO's or delay them.

Let's not even bring up the fact that most PVP
players set for Balance, and have a ton of
Balance Dispels in their deck..... or have
increased resistance to Balance.

How does Balance stop blade stacking?
How does Balance stop Shadow magic?
How does it stop feint stacking, etc?

Oh, they can Mana burn your two pips, yep,
great choice.

Oh they can Black Mantel, yep, but that is often
just powered through, with the new High Accuracy
gear. What's left, the only good choice they have
is to stuff some Loremaster in the deck.....

Woot, the craftable spell Loremaster, the most
awesome spell of all time, a one hit nuke
destruction... well, maybe not in my eyes.

Does Balance have Efreet, or enfeeble, shift,
medusa, Guardian spirit, plague, Power Link,
Bad JuJu, Lum Weaver, Triage, Gnomes, a Stun,
Dimensional shift, Snow dift, or Winter Moon.
No.... it does not, it just has LoreMaster, if
they can even get it as a drop or craft it.

All other schools have their way to deal with
LoreMaster, and have spells that compare or are
even better.
So, please stop all the OP stuff.
It's mainly just hyped up "Balance has a good
spell that's comparable to mine, and that ain't
right..... ".

Anyone got a reasonable reply?
balance may not have weaver, but its got loremaster witch does up to 150 more damage leaves a weakness aswell thats only 5% less powerful and also adds a 35% mantle. Mana burn works like this either way both players will lose about 3 pips however the person getting mana burned will also take damage and lose a shield if he has one on. aura popper makes it so it is more difficult for people to generate extra pierce/accuracy/block/resist/damage and the loss in accuracy is deadlty when coupled with the loremaster mantles. Shrike defense you guys have king art loremaster mana burn and a few others. Your the only school who can get shields for 3 different schools at once. carry stun in side deck like a life and death both have to. you dont get power link but you get availing hands witch heals for more then satyr especially if critical. with your list of spells you guys dont have i could make one for every school except raplace that schools spells with lroemaster mana burn and bubble popper. people set for balance because most of the higher ranked people are balance because there spells at this lvl are better then what most get. Also to counter the set for balance dont forget you guys have spectral blast hydra and chimera. Balance is the only school with spells that can hit 3 times. also heres something to think about, take away efreet from fire and one of the only good spells they'd have left would be power link, what else would keep them competetive? take away loremaster from balance and they still have burn aura popper judge and many other tools to keep competetive. they may not have a damage overtime but guess what, they also are the only school that doesnt need to worry about -70% shields. also about the leaderboards if you look from 90 to 100 balance dominates and has last time i checked at least 10 more people then any other school, last time i ckecked balance had 30+ while fire was sitting at the bottom with 4, but you rarely here fire people complaining about there spells even less so then balance witch makes no sense whatsoever that despite this balance still complains more about there spells then any other school because when they see a good spell they feel its either gotta be theres or nobodys

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4118
shadowbalance36 on Sep 11, 2014 wrote:
please don't we all know that sirens is the most overused op spell in the entire spiral. we all know shadow came because mainly storm cried so much about jade gear. A hit all spell that does heavy damage steals 2 pips and puts up a -50 accuracy is overpowered. It is worse then a judgement that only attacks one. And although fire crie not as much as storm does. storm wants all the power with no weakness and thats exactly what they got. Current for heals wand for accuracy wow only health is a concern? So Storm should be able to wipe everyone in pvp and not change strategy like everyone else yeah ok. anytime storm cant win they get mad. Balance has no attack all spell outside of Ra which was given way back a long time ago. no stun and no over time spells that can be trained. Ki would have been smart to put steel giant on a pet card or made it trainable.
It removes 2 blades, it doesn't steal any pips.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
William Dawncloud on Sep 11, 2014 wrote:
"balance has no attack all spell outside of ra which was given way back a long time ago"
ra hits very hard and is basically balance version of forest lord.
balance also has sandstorm and powernova in case you forgot
Hence the whole point of my posting, with Forest Lord I can stack four different learned Blades (2 enchanted) and four traps (two enchanted), but still use an Ice wand to remove a Weakness.

Pure Balance is unable lto do that, it loses all of it's blades and traps.

Now, I hear people saying while Balance only has a -50 tower to defend against it.

Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

Plus Balance has no way at all to remove the opponents blades or Traps.

Note to mentin, Sandstrom and Powrenova are just about useless in 1v1 PvP.

Explorer
Apr 26, 2010
62
In team pvp, I have seen balance use powernova with great success, as the weakness plus damage for only 7 pips makes it a great spell. Also, your post doesn't make sense. You say schools have lots of resist to balance which makes it hard to damage them. but schools have the highest resist to storm, the school you are calling op. I have seen a wizard with 130% storm resist. While figuring out how to deal with that, storms have almost no health, where a balance can easily retain good stats with upwards of 4500 health.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
To back up my claim that Balance is not the most OP, lets look at the leaderboards,
and the top 25 players between level 90 and 100.

The top five Wizards are ...
1. Storm Level 95.
2. Death Level 90.
3. Ice Level 100
4. Storm Level 95
5. Fire Level 96,
These are the best in the game, between Level 90 and 100.

Now, lets looks at the top 25 between level 90 to 100.

*Storm has 7 in the top 25, between the levels stated. Yes, the most OP in the game.
Balance has 6.
Myth has 4.
*Fire has 2.
*Ice has 2.
Life has 2.
*Death has 2.

* = A top five school, Clearly a wizard that can be played well in PVP.
Yes, doing the top 100 would be better, but the top 25 proves the point just as well.

There you have it, Storm is clearly OP in PVP.
Balance comes in second, but still impressive.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4118
Veracity8 on Sep 11, 2014 wrote:
Hence the whole point of my posting, with Forest Lord I can stack four different learned Blades (2 enchanted) and four traps (two enchanted), but still use an Ice wand to remove a Weakness.

Pure Balance is unable lto do that, it loses all of it's blades and traps.

Now, I hear people saying while Balance only has a -50 tower to defend against it.

Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

Plus Balance has no way at all to remove the opponents blades or Traps.

Note to mentin, Sandstrom and Powrenova are just about useless in 1v1 PvP.
Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

There's also a HUGE difference between having only 30, 35, 50, 55 shields to deal with and having 30, 35, 50, 50, 55, 55, 70, 70, 75, 75, 80, 85 stackable shields.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
Veracity8 on Sep 10, 2014 wrote:
Wow, all this OP stuff is gettng out of control.

Who is level 95 and at the top of the Leader Boards?
Last time I looked it was Storm, and there are a lot
of Storm at the top of the Leader boards at Level 95.
But, all I see is that Balance is OP at 95, not so at all.

Why does Balance have Super Nova, it's pretty
simple. At the time it did not have a damage Global
it could put up. It needed some way to cut down
on the incomming damage. Anyway, this spell is
just about worthless in PvP, as no one puts up
an aura, as soon as they know your a Balance.
That is at the beginning of the match, so it's
not a big deal.

Mana Burn, three pips for three pips, and normally
mininal damage. Yes, it's a good delay to allow you
to search for cards, but it's can't be spammed.
Plus, anyone that has played a few matches, knows to
start spending your pips as soon as they see a Balance.
From Second it's hard to use, from first, you may get
a solid hit in, but the person second is most likely
going to use their pips anyway.
I see this spell as little more than a delay, and a
way to delay or slow heals (most of the time).
About it's only real advanage, it can stop the
really big OHKO's or delay them.

Let's not even bring up the fact that most PVP
players set for Balance, and have a ton of
Balance Dispels in their deck..... or have
increased resistance to Balance.

How does Balance stop blade stacking?
How does Balance stop Shadow magic?
How does it stop feint stacking, etc?

Oh, they can Mana burn your two pips, yep,
great choice.

Oh they can Black Mantel, yep, but that is often
just powered through, with the new High Accuracy
gear. What's left, the only good choice they have
is to stuff some Loremaster in the deck.....

Woot, the craftable spell Loremaster, the most
awesome spell of all time, a one hit nuke
destruction... well, maybe not in my eyes.

Does Balance have Efreet, or enfeeble, shift,
medusa, Guardian spirit, plague, Power Link,
Bad JuJu, Lum Weaver, Triage, Gnomes, a Stun,
Dimensional shift, Snow dift, or Winter Moon.
No.... it does not, it just has LoreMaster, if
they can even get it as a drop or craft it.

All other schools have their way to deal with
LoreMaster, and have spells that compare or are
even better.
So, please stop all the OP stuff.
It's mainly just hyped up "Balance has a good
spell that's comparable to mine, and that ain't
right..... ".

Anyone got a reasonable reply?
Storm is the top school at 95-100 in 1v1? We must be playing a different game lol. Since you used the leader-boards as evidence lets look at what it actually illustrates. At lvl 95-100 Storm has 13 spots on the leader-board. At level 95-100 Balance has 19 spots. Lets look at the top of the leaderboard, it is a storm with 3663 rating and 222 wins. The max rank you can gain from 1v1 PvP is 16. Assuming he won every single one of his matches(highly unlikely) his rank would only be (222*16)=3552. This indicates that his rank is either a glitch or that he plays team PvP. Most of the storms on the leader-board come from a team PvP background which is where storm excels at max lvl due to the mechanics of team matches.

Supernova is worthless? The very existence of the spell preempts other schools from using an entire side school of magic. How in the world is that worthless? Supernova ensures that balance has a monopoly on star magic which is the cheapest and most effective way to modify several base statistics for several rounds.

Mana Burn is only a delay move? Mana Burn limits another schools viable spell choices and forces them to play a specific way and at less than their maximum potential. That is a huge advantage.

Most PvP players set for Balance precisely because they are the dominant 1v1 school at lvl 95-100.

Balance stops bladestacking the same way other schools stop bladestacking, with off school TC. Mana Burn is also a natural counter to bladestacking since bladestacks are most effective with high pip spells. At any rate bladestacking isnt a common practice at max lvl outside of some jades so that point is moot.

How does balance stop shadow magic? Mana Burn, Loremaster, Black mantle, Weakness, King Artorious, Availing hands. When it comes to interrupting shadow magic Balance only comes second to death in effective counters.

How does it stop feint stacking? The same way other schools do it, with tc empowers/sacrifices.

Most of the spells you cited are balanced in terms of cost-benefit. Loremaster on the other hand is overpowered no argument about it. It does MORE damage per pip than expected of the balance school while simultaneously adding 2 disruptive effects all at the low cost of 4 pips.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1557
seethe42 on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

There's also a HUGE difference between having only 30, 35, 50, 55 shields to deal with and having 30, 35, 50, 50, 55, 55, 70, 70, 75, 75, 80, 85 stackable shields.
There's also a huge difference between packing Elemental + Spirit shields rather than packing Thermic, Volcanic, Glacial, Dream, Legend, Ether shields. Most Balance wizards would carry Elemental and Spirit shields only or carry Elemental and Spirit shields with very little 70% shields. Your point?

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
seethe42 on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

There's also a HUGE difference between having only 30, 35, 50, 55 shields to deal with and having 30, 35, 50, 50, 55, 55, 70, 70, 75, 75, 80, 85 stackable shields.
seethe42,

True, but only Life and Storm really have to worry about that, and Storm could use a TC like storm
elf to get around. They don't have to, they spam Bats or the snake into every one that goes up.
So, I can see where life has an issue, but they do the same thing that Balance does, they use
a low pip hit to remove them.
Now, there is the issue of being 2nd, but really everyone has that issue.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1557
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Storm is the top school at 95-100 in 1v1? We must be playing a different game lol. Since you used the leader-boards as evidence lets look at what it actually illustrates. At lvl 95-100 Storm has 13 spots on the leader-board. At level 95-100 Balance has 19 spots. Lets look at the top of the leaderboard, it is a storm with 3663 rating and 222 wins. The max rank you can gain from 1v1 PvP is 16. Assuming he won every single one of his matches(highly unlikely) his rank would only be (222*16)=3552. This indicates that his rank is either a glitch or that he plays team PvP. Most of the storms on the leader-board come from a team PvP background which is where storm excels at max lvl due to the mechanics of team matches.

Supernova is worthless? The very existence of the spell preempts other schools from using an entire side school of magic. How in the world is that worthless? Supernova ensures that balance has a monopoly on star magic which is the cheapest and most effective way to modify several base statistics for several rounds.

Mana Burn is only a delay move? Mana Burn limits another schools viable spell choices and forces them to play a specific way and at less than their maximum potential. That is a huge advantage.

Most PvP players set for Balance precisely because they are the dominant 1v1 school at lvl 95-100.

Balance stops bladestacking the same way other schools stop bladestacking, with off school TC. Mana Burn is also a natural counter to bladestacking since bladestacks are most effective with high pip spells. At any rate bladestacking isnt a common practice at max lvl outside of some jades so that point is moot.

How does balance stop shadow magic? Mana Burn, Loremaster, Black mantle, Weakness, King Artorious, Availing hands. When it comes to interrupting shadow magic Balance only comes second to death in effective counters.

How does it stop feint stacking? The same way other schools do it, with tc empowers/sacrifices.

Most of the spells you cited are balanced in terms of cost-benefit. Loremaster on the other hand is overpowered no argument about it. It does MORE damage per pip than expected of the balance school while simultaneously adding 2 disruptive effects all at the low cost of 4 pips.
Add 500 to the equation because you start with it, and Michael would only have 24 losses. If that is truly achieved through 1v1, then Storm is beyond overpowered. I myself think he did team PvP as well to get to that rank, but I don't see a possible partner at the top of the leaderboard that somewhat matches his rank and wins. I know many Storms who use TC Black Mantles and spam Wild Bolt to win. That's the cheapest way you can win a match and it works most of the time. That's why you see Storm wizards all over the place from ranks 500-2000. Storm is by far the cheapest school, and if lucky, there are times when there's absolutely no possible way to win the match. If Insane Bolt hits you (80% chance to hit the target, 20% chance to self) and criticals with no block, you definitely lost the match the next turn if that hit didn't wipe you out yet. Is that overpowered? Yes. Can you do anything to counter it from second? No.

Compare that with Balance now. Can Balance one hit kill somebody? No. Can Loremaster do 3500 damage the first turn? Not very likely. Can Balance win a match in two turns? Again, not very likely. If a Balance gets a critical hit on you, is there any chance to recover? Yes.

Most PvP players set for Balance because they have the mislead image that Balance is overpowered. Once you set for a Balance, you won 100% from first, which isn't likely with the other schools. Remember how Fire and Storm wizards could fight Ice wizards with near (or over) immunity and 70% shields to their own school? Now tell me, how is Fire or Storm not overpowered again?

Last I checked, Mana Burn didn't stop somebody from using a Feint. Neither did Loremaster, and Black Mantle doesn't always make somebody fizzle and MC talents take it out easily. King Artorius can be Dark Pacted off easily because it's worth 8 pips, and Availing Hands can't stop a OHKO. Life comes second easily in stopping Dark Nova from taking them out by the simple usage of Guardian Spirit. The Dark Nova user would then have a choice of dealing less damage and casting Doom and Gloom (to be Sanctuaried off) or would have to go with the hit and ignore the massive heal Guardian Spirit has. After that comes Myth with Earthquake and Dimension Shift (I have a Myth wizard, and Jades hardly ever hit a trapped Dark Nova on me), and then it's either Storm or Balance for 4th place.

Treasure cards don't last forever. Death has many self hits, Myth has Cleanse Ward, Life has Guardian Spirit, Fire has Immolate, but Balance, Ice, and Storm are the only ones left behind without a good counter to Feint stacking that comes through their main deck.

Yes, Loremaster does do more damage than it's supposed to, but Balance has been getting horrible spells like Ra, Sabertooth (weaker than Spinysaur), easily shielded Chimera, etc. Loremaster is the first spell in forever given to Balance that does great damage per pip and isn't as situational as Mana Burn or Supernova.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
Eric Stormbringer,

Still, does not mean that he didn't do some Team play and mainly did 1v1.
Either way, look at the number of storm in 1v1, and the rank of most storm.
Storm is a very effective school, just as effective as Balance, if not more.

Let's take a typical storm, (who I just fought, and got crushed in two rounds).
539 Critical.
80 Power pips.
22 pierce.
54 Heal.
120 critical Block across the board.
111 Damage.
24 Accuracy.
Resist was around 22 for most schools.

(Btw, I can supply the players name, if you don't agree these are real).
Incredible stats, and that is why storm is clearly overpowered with Shrike, etc.

Supernova does stop the players from using it their Aura, agree, but you never get to
use the spell. I have not had one player in the last three or four months put up an
Aura against my Balance. That is my point, you never get to use the spell.

Mana burn has it's use, but it's hard to use when people know their going over
four pips, and they start using stuns and Balance Dispels.
Any player sets for Mana burn, or they use their pips, no one is going to take the hit
and lose pips.

Using TC is not really part of the issue, so I will leave that as common knowledge.

LoreMaster is good as far as damage, but combine that with the inability of now being
able to stack blades or traps, and it balances out. The Weakness and black Mantle
are low enough, so that adding them both on, is effective but not overwhelming.
I would much rather it just had a -55 mantle or a -35 weakness.
All schools have a defined added strategy, Ice and Myth (stun), Fire - hit and heal, plus
weakness and a ton of power. Storm just a ton of overwhelming damage. Life, is about to
outheal just about any schools damage. Death can damage and heal and get around shields,
with no issue. Balance needed this spell to keep it in the game.....

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
PvP King on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Add 500 to the equation because you start with it, and Michael would only have 24 losses. If that is truly achieved through 1v1, then Storm is beyond overpowered. I myself think he did team PvP as well to get to that rank, but I don't see a possible partner at the top of the leaderboard that somewhat matches his rank and wins. I know many Storms who use TC Black Mantles and spam Wild Bolt to win. That's the cheapest way you can win a match and it works most of the time. That's why you see Storm wizards all over the place from ranks 500-2000. Storm is by far the cheapest school, and if lucky, there are times when there's absolutely no possible way to win the match. If Insane Bolt hits you (80% chance to hit the target, 20% chance to self) and criticals with no block, you definitely lost the match the next turn if that hit didn't wipe you out yet. Is that overpowered? Yes. Can you do anything to counter it from second? No.

Compare that with Balance now. Can Balance one hit kill somebody? No. Can Loremaster do 3500 damage the first turn? Not very likely. Can Balance win a match in two turns? Again, not very likely. If a Balance gets a critical hit on you, is there any chance to recover? Yes.

Most PvP players set for Balance because they have the mislead image that Balance is overpowered. Once you set for a Balance, you won 100% from first, which isn't likely with the other schools. Remember how Fire and Storm wizards could fight Ice wizards with near (or over) immunity and 70% shields to their own school? Now tell me, how is Fire or Storm not overpowered again?

Last I checked, Mana Burn didn't stop somebody from using a Feint. Neither did Loremaster, and Black Mantle doesn't always make somebody fizzle and MC talents take it out easily. King Artorius can be Dark Pacted off easily because it's worth 8 pips, and Availing Hands can't stop a OHKO. Life comes second easily in stopping Dark Nova from taking them out by the simple usage of Guardian Spirit. The Dark Nova user would then have a choice of dealing less damage and casting Doom and Gloom (to be Sanctuaried off) or would have to go with the hit and ignore the massive heal Guardian Spirit has. After that comes Myth with Earthquake and Dimension Shift (I have a Myth wizard, and Jades hardly ever hit a trapped Dark Nova on me), and then it's either Storm or Balance for 4th place.

Treasure cards don't last forever. Death has many self hits, Myth has Cleanse Ward, Life has Guardian Spirit, Fire has Immolate, but Balance, Ice, and Storm are the only ones left behind without a good counter to Feint stacking that comes through their main deck.

Yes, Loremaster does do more damage than it's supposed to, but Balance has been getting horrible spells like Ra, Sabertooth (weaker than Spinysaur), easily shielded Chimera, etc. Loremaster is the first spell in forever given to Balance that does great damage per pip and isn't as situational as Mana Burn or Supernova.
Even if Michael did achieve that rank in 1v1(which we both agree is very unlikely) then he would be an outlier which is of no use in coming to any meaningful conclusion. Math guarantees that a tc mantle-wildbolt strategy will fail the majority of the times as wild bolt 66% of the time deals less damage than any other 2 pip attack spell in the game.You see storm wizards all over the place including the well known "storm-belt" of very low ranked Promethean that any grandmaster overlord can tell you about. Insane Biolt does have too high of a chance for success(Something I pointed out to KI 3 years ago in this thread: Insane bolt) That being said if you are being one shot by a storms insane bolt then you need to invest in some block which is a critical statistic especially in this meta.

Can balance one hit someone? Yes on round 1 as a recent balance overlord attested to in Duelist 101 recent balance guide. Can loremaster hit 3500 damage in the first round? No it cannot but can it instantly self-destruct you the first round? No it cannot. Can balance win a match in 2 rounds? Yes it can. If storm gets a critical hit on you there is also a chance to recover unless you dies the same which applies to balance.

Um what? The reason people set for balance is because that is the most commonly encountered school at the commander and higher ranks and the dominant school at top lvl PvP. Does balance not have off school damage hits such as spectral blast and chimera? In fact it is not 100% chance of loss as you yourself know since you have defeated a person with immunity who set for you. I'm not sure how being able to fight immunity is a sign of being overpowered since any school can do it.

I agree that other schools have it easier in terms of stopping Dark Nova(myth and death are probably the best at it although every school can do it as presented in my guide:Dark Nova) but my comment still stands as balance has numerous ways to combat shadow magic particularly shrike(second behind death).

Agreed that their are limited ways to combat jade trap stack which is why I suggested a counter to trap stacking a few months ago:(Traps)

Ra-On par with balances expected damage output
Sabertooth- Above balances normal damage output with an effect
Chimera- Above balances normal damage output

No good recent spells? Are we forgetting King Artorious and Savage Paw?

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
Veracity8 on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Eric Stormbringer,

Still, does not mean that he didn't do some Team play and mainly did 1v1.
Either way, look at the number of storm in 1v1, and the rank of most storm.
Storm is a very effective school, just as effective as Balance, if not more.

Let's take a typical storm, (who I just fought, and got crushed in two rounds).
539 Critical.
80 Power pips.
22 pierce.
54 Heal.
120 critical Block across the board.
111 Damage.
24 Accuracy.
Resist was around 22 for most schools.

(Btw, I can supply the players name, if you don't agree these are real).
Incredible stats, and that is why storm is clearly overpowered with Shrike, etc.

Supernova does stop the players from using it their Aura, agree, but you never get to
use the spell. I have not had one player in the last three or four months put up an
Aura against my Balance. That is my point, you never get to use the spell.

Mana burn has it's use, but it's hard to use when people know their going over
four pips, and they start using stuns and Balance Dispels.
Any player sets for Mana burn, or they use their pips, no one is going to take the hit
and lose pips.

Using TC is not really part of the issue, so I will leave that as common knowledge.

LoreMaster is good as far as damage, but combine that with the inability of now being
able to stack blades or traps, and it balances out. The Weakness and black Mantle
are low enough, so that adding them both on, is effective but not overwhelming.
I would much rather it just had a -55 mantle or a -35 weakness.
All schools have a defined added strategy, Ice and Myth (stun), Fire - hit and heal, plus
weakness and a ton of power. Storm just a ton of overwhelming damage. Life, is about to
outheal just about any schools damage. Death can damage and heal and get around shields,
with no issue. Balance needed this spell to keep it in the game.....
I do see the number of storms in 1v1 at all ranks including sub-private which has a higher concentration of storm wizards than any other school. I just gave you the actual leaderboard data which demonstrates that balance is currently in the lead with more max lvl leaderboard presence than any other school.

Those stats are incredible: Incredibly bad. A storm like that isn't going to do very well for very long at the warlord+ ranks when everyone will block his criticals the majority of the time whereas he can block almost nothing.

Your point on Supernova is exactly the point. Simply by having that spell you ensured that you never saw any auras for 3-4 months. That is an incredible advantage.

Once again your point on mana burn perfectly illustrates its utility. You are forcing players to play at less than their maximum potential simply by having the ability to cast a card.

Your inability to stack blades and traps has no bearing on this meta as stacking is ineffective when used by anyone not jaded. Taking away an irrelevant ability is no disadvantage to the school. Loremaster is precisely so effective because it combines what normally takes 3 rounds to achieve in one spell. An acc debuff, a weakness and a large amount of damage. Balance did not need loremaster to keep it in the game considering it was the top 1v1 school before loremaster was introduced.

Explorer
Apr 26, 2010
62
Honestly no offense but I disagree with this entire post. Balance simply is the best pvp school right now in my opinion. Mana burn and supernova are not situational, but simply great spells. They are way better than any other Avalon spells for other schools. Being able to have crit damage health, with a crit supernova doing 2000 damage, man burning pips off, and spamming lore, balance is pretty darn awesome. better than storm and all the others in my opinion

Defender
Jan 18, 2013
195
Veracity8 on Sep 11, 2014 wrote:
Hence the whole point of my posting, with Forest Lord I can stack four different learned Blades (2 enchanted) and four traps (two enchanted), but still use an Ice wand to remove a Weakness.

Pure Balance is unable lto do that, it loses all of it's blades and traps.

Now, I hear people saying while Balance only has a -50 tower to defend against it.

Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

Plus Balance has no way at all to remove the opponents blades or Traps.

Note to mentin, Sandstrom and Powrenova are just about useless in 1v1 PvP.
Actually balance can stack. You just need to go about it in a different way. Firstly, blade stacking cannot be done because weakness is a balances kryptonite. However stacking traps is very possible and at the end of it a towershield is all your opponent has to defend against it. Which can be completely cut through with infallible, strike and your gears pierce. If your opponent stacks different versions of towershield then shatter TC is there to save the day. If you have a weakness then a bad juju TC can remove it leaving your stacked traps in tact. It will also remove the back end of your feints lessening the threat of your opponent and doing less damage to yourself because of the weakness. On top of all of this you are stalling your opponent for a turn by passing them a 90% weakness.

There you go everyone. A new strategy to go try out. This can also be done by any school.
Just be aware that like every strategy it also has a counter. That is if your opponent has a bad juju of their own then they can remove your stacked traps.

If you really want to blade stack on a balance it can be done using cleanse charm TC. However I would not recommend if because it is very easy for your opponent to shut you down. Placing and removing weaknesses is a turn for turn play. There are moves your opponent can do to do damage as well as weakness such as loremaster and weaver. On top of this there are also moves to remove your blades all together such as earthquake and enfeeble. In team plays this will be even harder to pull off with multi target weakness moves such as power nova and plague. And who is going to waste space if their side deck for cleanse charm?

In short balance can stack but only traps in 1v1. It also has a counter that you need to be aware of. All other times it can be done but you would be stupid to try it.

All of this aside, balance is an OK school. Just like all the other schools it has its strengths and weaknesses(no pun intended) but it definitely doesn't stand out in anyway. Personally I don't play balance because I consider it the worst school, I don't think its bad, just not as good at the others. It does have some very useful spells but so does every other school.

I really don't get everybody hating on balance so much. It's not even close to being over powered. If we really want to have this argument then we can argue that any school is over powered.
And if you really think that balance is the best and has an unfair advantage then play balance. Stop complaining about it and take advantage of it. We are all playing the same game and we all have the same tools available to us, so use them.

Survivor
May 05, 2012
8
Veracity8 on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Eric Stormbringer,

Still, does not mean that he didn't do some Team play and mainly did 1v1.
Either way, look at the number of storm in 1v1, and the rank of most storm.
Storm is a very effective school, just as effective as Balance, if not more.

Let's take a typical storm, (who I just fought, and got crushed in two rounds).
539 Critical.
80 Power pips.
22 pierce.
54 Heal.
120 critical Block across the board.
111 Damage.
24 Accuracy.
Resist was around 22 for most schools.

(Btw, I can supply the players name, if you don't agree these are real).
Incredible stats, and that is why storm is clearly overpowered with Shrike, etc.

Supernova does stop the players from using it their Aura, agree, but you never get to
use the spell. I have not had one player in the last three or four months put up an
Aura against my Balance. That is my point, you never get to use the spell.

Mana burn has it's use, but it's hard to use when people know their going over
four pips, and they start using stuns and Balance Dispels.
Any player sets for Mana burn, or they use their pips, no one is going to take the hit
and lose pips.

Using TC is not really part of the issue, so I will leave that as common knowledge.

LoreMaster is good as far as damage, but combine that with the inability of now being
able to stack blades or traps, and it balances out. The Weakness and black Mantle
are low enough, so that adding them both on, is effective but not overwhelming.
I would much rather it just had a -55 mantle or a -35 weakness.
All schools have a defined added strategy, Ice and Myth (stun), Fire - hit and heal, plus
weakness and a ton of power. Storm just a ton of overwhelming damage. Life, is about to
outheal just about any schools damage. Death can damage and heal and get around shields,
with no issue. Balance needed this spell to keep it in the game.....
I just totally agree. i can't begin to understand why people say balance is "OP" when you know their strat, deck, and every possible counter to their spells. "OH manaburn is so unfair" "SO is supernova" How is it unfair? Now that everyone thinks balance is OP they will maintain low pips, never use auras which means you can never actually use the spell. Loremaster may be a little over the top, but thats the only good spell balance has ever had. Only 50% of the time loremaster spamming can get you to the leaderboard. Most people just watch the queue, pack some balance dispels, put that extra balance resist ring, and pwn them. To me, I think balance doesn't reign PvP that much.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 13, 2014 wrote:
I do see the number of storms in 1v1 at all ranks including sub-private which has a higher concentration of storm wizards than any other school. I just gave you the actual leaderboard data which demonstrates that balance is currently in the lead with more max lvl leaderboard presence than any other school.

Those stats are incredible: Incredibly bad. A storm like that isn't going to do very well for very long at the warlord+ ranks when everyone will block his criticals the majority of the time whereas he can block almost nothing.

Your point on Supernova is exactly the point. Simply by having that spell you ensured that you never saw any auras for 3-4 months. That is an incredible advantage.

Once again your point on mana burn perfectly illustrates its utility. You are forcing players to play at less than their maximum potential simply by having the ability to cast a card.

Your inability to stack blades and traps has no bearing on this meta as stacking is ineffective when used by anyone not jaded. Taking away an irrelevant ability is no disadvantage to the school. Loremaster is precisely so effective because it combines what normally takes 3 rounds to achieve in one spell. An acc debuff, a weakness and a large amount of damage. Balance did not need loremaster to keep it in the game considering it was the top 1v1 school before loremaster was introduced.
I understand that you are looking at a larger quantity of numbers on the
leaderboards, but when you have a large group of one wizard that is in the
top 25, that says something, to me anyway.
Those incredibly bad stats gave that storm wizard 74 wins and only 8 loses.
Far better than me at that number of 82 wins/loses (how about you)?

Yes, Supernova is an Advantage and a disadvantage at the same time.
Once you hit warlord, the globals start showing up, and Balance does not
have a decent 2 pip global. So you lose the pip war over Globals.
Another reason why Balance so needed a spell like LoreMaster.

On ManaBurn, each players Maximum potential is based on their skill level
and how their deck is set. Yes, it can at times reduce the big hits,
but really how many players just wait, knowing they have the advantage
because they are set for Balance?
All players just pack the enhancements on the smaller hits and reshuffle,
as fast as they can. I see where it inhibits very few players at ranks
above private or so.

On the final item, stacking, as you know most just stack a zero pips blade and
an enchanted zero pip blade. For Ice, that a plus 90+ before the hit.
If I weakness of any type, it’s a delay, nothing more.
When they can keep their blades, and I can’t, it's a disadvantage.
If I bad Juju, I take a bigger self hit when I have blades up, I
also see that as a disadvantage.

Yes, Balance may have higher presents on the Boards, but that is because there
are so many of them. Balance has exploded in the last two worlds.
Where I seldom saw a Balance in the worlds before, now I see plenty of them
all over. Hence the huge presents on the boards, but it’s not because they
are over-powered.
Not to mention the number of players that are using Global Damage stats and
using LoreMaster also. I have seen this done very effectively by one on the
Duelest101 team.

Anyway, I see the whole Balance being overpowered, pretty much as a popular
belief (or fairy tale), that has been crafted for enjoyable reading for those
who would believe it.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
seethe42 on Sep 12, 2014 wrote:
Ok, the other schools have a -70, but they can stack Blades and Traps, a huge difference.

There's also a HUGE difference between having only 30, 35, 50, 55 shields to deal with and having 30, 35, 50, 50, 55, 55, 70, 70, 75, 75, 80, 85 stackable shields.
I know this was answered, but I wanted to add one item.
Death has Posion.
Fire has Link, Power Link, etc.
Myth has to many options to list.
Ice has Frostbite.
Even Life has a damage over time spell now.....

The only two that do not, Balance and Storm.
Where storm could even use Storm elf if it wanted, but doesn't really need it.
yes, Balance is the odd man out, with medium damage hits and no DOT.
So, for most schools, they can handle shields effectively, Balance cannot.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4118
Veracity8 on Sep 15, 2014 wrote:
I understand that you are looking at a larger quantity of numbers on the
leaderboards, but when you have a large group of one wizard that is in the
top 25, that says something, to me anyway.
Those incredibly bad stats gave that storm wizard 74 wins and only 8 loses.
Far better than me at that number of 82 wins/loses (how about you)?

Yes, Supernova is an Advantage and a disadvantage at the same time.
Once you hit warlord, the globals start showing up, and Balance does not
have a decent 2 pip global. So you lose the pip war over Globals.
Another reason why Balance so needed a spell like LoreMaster.

On ManaBurn, each players Maximum potential is based on their skill level
and how their deck is set. Yes, it can at times reduce the big hits,
but really how many players just wait, knowing they have the advantage
because they are set for Balance?
All players just pack the enhancements on the smaller hits and reshuffle,
as fast as they can. I see where it inhibits very few players at ranks
above private or so.

On the final item, stacking, as you know most just stack a zero pips blade and
an enchanted zero pip blade. For Ice, that a plus 90+ before the hit.
If I weakness of any type, it’s a delay, nothing more.
When they can keep their blades, and I can’t, it's a disadvantage.
If I bad Juju, I take a bigger self hit when I have blades up, I
also see that as a disadvantage.

Yes, Balance may have higher presents on the Boards, but that is because there
are so many of them. Balance has exploded in the last two worlds.
Where I seldom saw a Balance in the worlds before, now I see plenty of them
all over. Hence the huge presents on the boards, but it’s not because they
are over-powered.
Not to mention the number of players that are using Global Damage stats and
using LoreMaster also. I have seen this done very effectively by one on the
Duelest101 team.

Anyway, I see the whole Balance being overpowered, pretty much as a popular
belief (or fairy tale), that has been crafted for enjoyable reading for those
who would believe it.
Anyway, I see the whole Balance being overpowered, pretty much as a popular
belief (or fairy tale), that has been crafted for enjoyable reading for those
who would believe it.

Much like the popular myth that balance is weak because it has smaller universal blades and can't wand away weakness that is perpetuated by so many Balance wizards who just can't learn how to play their school effectively.