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Treasure Card Banning in PvP

AuthorMessage
Defender
Nov 21, 2010
184
FatesKin wrote:
open33 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
open33 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
That being said I do not think the mid lvl pvp gear is OP, its accessible to everyone and gives a decent amount of boost and resist to anyone who gets it.


open33 wrote:
Don't forget that low lvl pvp gear is insanely OP already.


I spoke about low lvl not mid lvl gear.

Earning something fair is not making the gear stats fair. The resist is pretty much like resist of ice school at epic lvls (without crafted Avalon gear). There is no gear that even close to that for such low lvls.
If the gear was fair why there is no pvp gear for epic lvls? I think KI realized that it OP but its too late now. A lot of people will get crazy if they remove it. The will complain of how much time they invest to get the gear and now there is nothing good about pvp and they quit.


Overpowered in what way, by stats provided by level? That we can agree with, a lvl 1 can potentially have 55% resist 16% accuracy 22% damage boost. Obviously it can't be used in PvE because it is Overpowered for most early PvE worlds. However is this overpowered in the arena comparitively speaking? Not really, simply because the gear is accessible and earnable. If every person can access this gear then in terms of PvP it is not overpowered, much like the waterworks gear. I too am confused on why KI has not released high lvl PvP gear...but one can dream yes?


Your excuse to give to low lvls extremely strong gear is like deleting the lvl condition for all the gears. why not give access to all lvls to all types of gear? After all its gonna be equal access so it is fair for pvp too. It would be very nice to see lvl1 with Avalon gear. Add to that the usage of epic spells from TC and the difference between lvl 1 and 80 lvls reduced to almost zero. So the low lvls will have the same chances to win the high lvls. That would be very fair since the have equal access to everything. Right?

I never saw a game that such nonsense going on at low lvls.

What are you talking about? I said PvP gear at low levels is fair because all people have access to it if they work for it. Never did I say anything about unlocking lvl limited gear. Also there is still a large difference between a low lvl wizard and a lvl 80 even assuming they could get the same gear. Namely: Health, powerpip chance, availability of spells, access to enhanceable spells etc. While gear does define a wizard to a large extent, it is not the only factor.

We can unlock the lvl limited gear exactly for the same reason you name for pvp gear they work for it. It makes the same sense as giving such OP pvp gear to low lvls.
Health and power pip is depends on schools storm and fire doesn't show significant difference. Since everyone can use TC availability of spells and access to enhanceable spells is not that limited as should to be.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
open33 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
open33 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
open33 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
That being said I do not think the mid lvl pvp gear is OP, its accessible to everyone and gives a decent amount of boost and resist to anyone who gets it.


open33 wrote:
Don't forget that low lvl pvp gear is insanely OP already.


I spoke about low lvl not mid lvl gear.

Earning something fair is not making the gear stats fair. The resist is pretty much like resist of ice school at epic lvls (without crafted Avalon gear). There is no gear that even close to that for such low lvls.
If the gear was fair why there is no pvp gear for epic lvls? I think KI realized that it OP but its too late now. A lot of people will get crazy if they remove it. The will complain of how much time they invest to get the gear and now there is nothing good about pvp and they quit.


Overpowered in what way, by stats provided by level? That we can agree with, a lvl 1 can potentially have 55% resist 16% accuracy 22% damage boost. Obviously it can't be used in PvE because it is Overpowered for most early PvE worlds. However is this overpowered in the arena comparitively speaking? Not really, simply because the gear is accessible and earnable. If every person can access this gear then in terms of PvP it is not overpowered, much like the waterworks gear. I too am confused on why KI has not released high lvl PvP gear...but one can dream yes?


Your excuse to give to low lvls extremely strong gear is like deleting the lvl condition for all the gears. why not give access to all lvls to all types of gear? After all its gonna be equal access so it is fair for pvp too. It would be very nice to see lvl1 with Avalon gear. Add to that the usage of epic spells from TC and the difference between lvl 1 and 80 lvls reduced to almost zero. So the low lvls will have the same chances to win the high lvls. That would be very fair since the have equal access to everything. Right?

I never saw a game that such nonsense going on at low lvls.

What are you talking about? I said PvP gear at low levels is fair because all people have access to it if they work for it. Never did I say anything about unlocking lvl limited gear. Also there is still a large difference between a low lvl wizard and a lvl 80 even assuming they could get the same gear. Namely: Health, powerpip chance, availability of spells, access to enhanceable spells etc. While gear does define a wizard to a large extent, it is not the only factor.

We can unlock the lvl limited gear exactly for the same reason you name for pvp gear they work for it. It makes the same sense as giving such OP pvp gear to low lvls.
Health and power pip is depends on schools storm and fire doesn't show significant difference. Since everyone can use TC availability of spells and access to enhanceable spells is not that limited as should to be.

There is a large difference here. Lvl gear is acquired by leveling, pvp gear is acquired by ranking and battling. These are two completely different reward systems, access to one for lower levels does not indicate or set a precedent for access to another. Health does depend on school(base health and lvl gains) along with supplemental gear. However Power pip chance is the same for all schools at the basic level with gear providing the differences we see. Access to enhanceable spells is very limited. A low level will never be able to enhance any of the high lvl tcs he acquires and with a limited sidedeck and no reshuffle equivalent to a high level's spell multiplication options, there is a LARGE difference in accessibility of spells.

Defender
Nov 21, 2010
184
FatesKin wrote:
There is a large difference here. Lvl gear is acquired by leveling, pvp gear is acquired by ranking and battling.

Of course there is a difference but as you said before for pvp gear they both accessible to all and earned.
FatesKin wrote:
That being said I do not think the mid lvl pvp gear is OP, its accessible to everyone and gives a decent amount of boost and resist to anyone who gets it. The gear is earned and are about the only thing worth buying with arena gear


FatesKin wrote:
A low level will never be able to enhance any of the high lvl tcs he acquires

TC are stronger than the original spell but weaker than enchanted. Not significantly weaker as expected.

The difference is not that huge as should be.
The only thing that low lvl has much limited card deck so his TC more limited than high lvl.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
open33 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
There is a large difference here. Lvl gear is acquired by leveling, pvp gear is acquired by ranking and battling.

Of course there is a difference but as you said before for pvp gear they both accessible to all and earned.
FatesKin wrote:
That being said I do not think the mid lvl pvp gear is OP, its accessible to everyone and gives a decent amount of boost and resist to anyone who gets it. The gear is earned and are about the only thing worth buying with arena gear


FatesKin wrote:
A low level will never be able to enhance any of the high lvl tcs he acquires

TC are stronger than the original spell but weaker than enchanted. Not significantly weaker as expected.

The difference is not that huge as should be.
The only thing that low lvl has much limited card deck so his TC more limited than high lvl.


That is correct, pvp gear is earned via ranking up and battling. On the other hand PvE gear is typically earned by leveling. Thus your assertion that PvP gear is somehow similar to giving mid/low lvls the lvl limited gear is incorrect. Two unrelated reward systems are being utilized. Also, how much of a difference do you want? Accessibility is non comparable, enhancements are non comparable. These are 2 very large differences.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
547
Removing TC's would create match imbalances in a matching system with wide level gaps. It would be nearly impossible for a lower level to win against higher level opponents, especially in a turn system we find ourselves in today.

Another point is that in a fight between to geared up lower levels, when you factor in max resist the fight would always end in a draw because healing cards outweigh the capacity to do damage. Add spritely and unicorn pets and you find yourself in a never ending match.

All TC's are available to players of every level making it fair. Level restricting cards is only going to further imbalance pvp.




Survivor
Apr 28, 2012
45
if he was lvl ten you could have killed him before any tc! and it would take a lot of time cause i dont think that lvl 10's have good power pip rating if it was a tc form their school. so stop complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well to be honest i get angry too when people use tc in pvp mostly ranked but they are usally high lvl not low ones who keep spaming tower shields so they wont die so i agree with you and i dont agree with you.

Survivor
Jul 10, 2011
13
When you are doing pvp in the arena, dont use your treasure cards, because it is a waste of treasure cards to do it. It is just pvp. No need to go full attack on anyone even though you want to win

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2929
i worked so hard to get my rank back. my level 17 fire (formerly) corporal even beat a captain, and she got a ton of points for it... and then lost to a level 10 knight with mana burn, critical and more resistance than my archmage necromancer... full crowns gear, naturally.

another thing: unless i missed some important update, decks are level-restricted by size/how many copies of what you can put in it. so why does a level 10 have a deck that's bigger than mine? as in, why am i running out of cards before her, with a full deck?

as i've always said: for the love of all things sacred, please put some kind of level restriction on overpowered school-only treasure cards. my archmage balance wizard had to earn that spell~ meaning that she had to solo some crazy dungeon to get it, whereas that level 10 just spent a few crowns for the same privilege; that's just wrong, and i feel that way about all school-only spells. if you can't train it (due to it being school/level restricted), it should not be available for crowns. end of.

second: why, as a corporal, am i facing knights and warlords who are 10 levels higher and start with 3 pips, when i only start with one? why not make it so that wizards are matched by both rank and level (with a 5-level bracket on both ends)? like, as a level 17, i could duel against a level 12 or 22 corporal, but not a level 12 or 22 knight... and certainly not a level 27 or 30 warlord, in full gear (and yes, it has happened to me).

ki has made it more than clear that those who don't spend money will never rank up; those who play fairly, both in pvp and pve, simply can't compete with cold, hard cash... but maybe i should just go through my archmages' inventories for the most overpowered tcs i can find and go that route instead. if i can't beat 'em (always), may as well join 'em, right?

if ki encourages exploiting loopholes in game mechanics, then i suppose i'm not above cheating.

off the soapbox,
-von.

Survivor
Jul 23, 2012
13
Indeed I have found the same problem. My storm friend and I teamed up both of us around lvl 25 at the time and privates. Neither of us had the advantage of crowns gear. We got matched against an Archmage/Warlord team. And to add insult to injury they used TC (all of which wasn't from their school) the whole time so we couldn't even predict what we had to shield against. So as you can probably see and epic loss on my teams side. I don't even mind losing in general really. What I really mind is the fact I can't compete with the Warlord gear being a private and not and Archmage :P . So overall is there a way to filter the PvP better? Not for crowns gear of course, but for lvl and rank.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2929
Angela Darksword on Jan 1, 2013 wrote:
Indeed I have found the same problem. My storm friend and I teamed up both of us around lvl 25 at the time and privates. Neither of us had the advantage of crowns gear. We got matched against an Archmage/Warlord team. And to add insult to injury they used TC (all of which wasn't from their school) the whole time so we couldn't even predict what we had to shield against. So as you can probably see and epic loss on my teams side. I don't even mind losing in general really. What I really mind is the fact I can't compete with the Warlord gear being a private and not and Archmage :P . So overall is there a way to filter the PvP better? Not for crowns gear of course, but for lvl and rank.
agreed. my problem is not with losing, but with losing to someone several levels higher and with full pvp or crowns gear, whom i know for a fact that i don't stand a chance against.

now that i've lost my rank and am a private again, betcha my next match will be against an archmage.

Geographer
Feb 19, 2010
939
Dr Von on Dec 31, 2012 wrote:
i worked so hard to get my rank back. my level 17 fire (formerly) corporal even beat a captain, and she got a ton of points for it... and then lost to a level 10 knight with mana burn, critical and more resistance than my archmage necromancer... full crowns gear, naturally.

another thing: unless i missed some important update, decks are level-restricted by size/how many copies of what you can put in it. so why does a level 10 have a deck that's bigger than mine? as in, why am i running out of cards before her, with a full deck?

as i've always said: for the love of all things sacred, please put some kind of level restriction on overpowered school-only treasure cards. my archmage balance wizard had to earn that spell~ meaning that she had to solo some crazy dungeon to get it, whereas that level 10 just spent a few crowns for the same privilege; that's just wrong, and i feel that way about all school-only spells. if you can't train it (due to it being school/level restricted), it should not be available for crowns. end of.

second: why, as a corporal, am i facing knights and warlords who are 10 levels higher and start with 3 pips, when i only start with one? why not make it so that wizards are matched by both rank and level (with a 5-level bracket on both ends)? like, as a level 17, i could duel against a level 12 or 22 corporal, but not a level 12 or 22 knight... and certainly not a level 27 or 30 warlord, in full gear (and yes, it has happened to me).

ki has made it more than clear that those who don't spend money will never rank up; those who play fairly, both in pvp and pve, simply can't compete with cold, hard cash... but maybe i should just go through my archmages' inventories for the most overpowered tcs i can find and go that route instead. if i can't beat 'em (always), may as well join 'em, right?

if ki encourages exploiting loopholes in game mechanics, then i suppose i'm not above cheating.

off the soapbox,
-von.
I dont feel that its cheating. But yeah use what you got because they do.

Survivor
Mar 27, 2012
3
What i dislike about pvp is the wait time in ranked to find a match.

Flint Seawalker Level 79 Fire

Mastermind
Dec 11, 2011
333
PvP went unfair when Hydra pack came out. And it only got worse from there. While I hate PvP will all of my living heart, the gear they gave just PROMOTED low level PvP. And if you don't have the cash, you can't win at PvP (lower level).

Survivor
Jan 05, 2011
1
I totally agree! Earlier today I was doing ranked pvp with my level 29 ice and had to defeat a level 27 commander myth. After a long tough battle of him using treasure cards, I lost. I checked his stats to find him wearing full crowns gear and an epic pet. Even though I was ice he had a much higher resist. Therefore, KI should ban people in there twenties to use rank 8 treasure cards and have a limited supply of crowns gear (about maybe 2 pieces of crowns gear per person).

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2929
Gavin GriffinBlood on Jan 2, 2013 wrote:
I totally agree! Earlier today I was doing ranked pvp with my level 29 ice and had to defeat a level 27 commander myth. After a long tough battle of him using treasure cards, I lost. I checked his stats to find him wearing full crowns gear and an epic pet. Even though I was ice he had a much higher resist. Therefore, KI should ban people in there twenties to use rank 8 treasure cards and have a limited supply of crowns gear (about maybe 2 pieces of crowns gear per person).
the use of treasure cards in general is not the issue. if the spell can be trained at one of the professors, before level 42, it's fair game.

my problem is with a level 10 wizard being able to buy a spell that my (currently level 88) wizard had to be of that school and actually work for. your average level 10 player does not have access to such spells, and the fact that spending money gives some players a major, tangible advantage over others is what bothers me.

if it's your own school's spell, fine. if my level 17 fire wiz can stay alive long enough to cast an efreet, all the power to her~ it's her school's spell, and she'll eventually have to do the work for the permanent one. but i will not give her power novas, or tritons, or gear with mana burn/guardian spirit/insert high-level school-only spell here. if she can't train it, she has no business using it.

Survivor
Oct 17, 2009
1
I also agree i went against a level 22 (warlord) against my level 46 fire wizard. she storm owl with a ton of blades as well as collusus and she killed me in one hit. I really think that treasure cards should be banned in PvP.

Survivor
Jan 20, 2012
8
In pvp as a low level it is very unfair for people to use treasure cards and kill in one hit. i personally am sick of it . kingisle should not allow treasure cards in PvP anymore i go in PvP and die in one hit and get mad it is like cheating almost. i can not even get my rank up in pvp because people are constantly using treasure cards and killing me.

Champion
Dec 01, 2011
496
Zekesteer on Apr 22, 2013 wrote:
In pvp as a low level it is very unfair for people to use treasure cards and kill in one hit. i personally am sick of it . kingisle should not allow treasure cards in PvP anymore i go in PvP and die in one hit and get mad it is like cheating almost. i can not even get my rank up in pvp because people are constantly using treasure cards and killing me.
You have the same right as them to use tc. Whatever your opponent does, you can do it.

Squire
Mar 07, 2011
523
Your post is only about the one millionth time someone has complained about treasure cards in PvP.

I think treasure cards are one of the truly brilliant aspects of this game. They aren't going away anytime soon.

P.S. You have a sideboard too. Use it to your advantage. Learn from your losses and add treasure cards of your own to help combat the various strategies used against you. Weakness and Tower Shield treasure cards are not a bad way to go. Also, maybe you should go make some Gargantuan attacks in the Golem Tower, discard them, and then put them in your PvP sideboard for some extra big attacks against your opponent.

Survivor
Jan 20, 2012
8
Re:Your post is only about the one millionth time someone has complained about treasure cards in PvP.

I think treasure cards are one of the truly brilliant aspects of this game. They aren't going away anytime soon.

P.S. You have a sideboard too. Use it to your advantage. Learn from your losses and add treasure cards of your own to help combat the various strategies used against you. Weakness and Tower Shield treasure cards are not a bad way to go. Also, maybe you should go make some Gargantuan attacks in the Golem Tower, discard them, and then put them in your PvP sideboard for some extra big attacks against your opponent.


I know i try and use tc to but it takes longer for me to get it and mostly people kill me before i can kill them

Squire
Mar 07, 2011
523
One of the little known strategies of PvP is being able to discard liberally, especially in the beginning of a match, in order to get some cards you really want or need, be it from your sideboard or your main deck. Discarding liberally is almost a "must" if you are in second position.

Now that the Trained spell Reshuffle has been turned into a treasure card, discarding liberally is a much more difficult proposition. KI wants you to play the cards you get in the order you get them. My personal strategy was to make Sun Spell enchanted cards as quickly as I could, then reshuffle, called a Fast Reshuffle strategy. Apparently people in the PvP department don't believe this to be a valid strategy, thus I retired from PvP.

Good Luck. 80% resist and 100% heal boost for those who spent real money to get the best in game items is going to be hard to beat. Crafted gear should be the absolute best gear available in the game, but that isn't the case anymore.

P.S. In case you didn't know, when you use a Sun School spell on a card and reshuffle it creates an extra card of that type. For example, if you have one infection in your deck and you use Cloak on it, then reshuffle, you now have two infection cards in your deck, the cloaked one and the regular one. Same goes for Colossal, Extraordinary, Primordial, and whatever that new +10% Blade Enchantment spell from Azteca is called.

I wish KI could explain why they have declared the fast reshuffle strategy invalid.

Survivor
Feb 27, 2010
23
My cousin has been trying very hard to win some ranked pvp matches, but he hasn't lost because of fancy clothes or pets, he's lost because of treasure cards. He is level 22 and when the ranked pvp matches him up with people the same level he cannot win because the other person would pull out a treasure card he/she can't get until they are level 48 or something like that. pvp is supposed to be about strategy and using what you have to create a good game. Treasure cards in ranked matches are just needless and they make people who don't have them lose. This is getting ridiculous. This needs to be stopped.

Geographer
Nov 26, 2011
865
risen2011 on Jul 7, 2013 wrote:
My cousin has been trying very hard to win some ranked pvp matches, but he hasn't lost because of fancy clothes or pets, he's lost because of treasure cards. He is level 22 and when the ranked pvp matches him up with people the same level he cannot win because the other person would pull out a treasure card he/she can't get until they are level 48 or something like that. pvp is supposed to be about strategy and using what you have to create a good game. Treasure cards in ranked matches are just needless and they make people who don't have them lose. This is getting ridiculous. This needs to be stopped.
I completely disagree with this. Treasure cards have always been part of PvP, and your cousin can use them as much as the other team can. You can also shield or dispel so they cannot do that big of a hit. If treasure cards weren't meant to be in PvP, they would have been out a long time ago.
-Jasmine FireBlade , level 86 pyromancer.

Survivor
Jun 24, 2012
11
I kind off agree with you but i think that the Tc that should be band are attack spells because they take the fun out of it because you are they don't use the attacks they are suppose to use and they don't learn to use what you have.

Survivor
Feb 27, 2010
1
I think people should not use tc in pvp no because thats the only way they win. if they do not use a tc they can not win. although the tc that they use get people mad. i think they should banned tc for pvp matches.