I never said it happened lol, sorry you don't take your time to read. I never said anything related to that either. I said it's possible for the 1000 heal to happen 50 times in a row before Energizing Battery heals 100 or 400, which is why it can be considered extremely overpowered.
Maybe it was a four hundred every single time, but he had a boost to make it 1000. Its possible. That's how I got Elixir Vitae.
@Canny: I don't bake cookies with friends. I do them alone. I'm making Triple Chocolate? Do you want one?
Maybe it was a four hundred every single time, but he had a boost to make it 1000. Its possible. That's how I got Elixir Vitae.
@Canny: I don't bake cookies with friends. I do them alone. I'm making Triple Chocolate? Do you want one?
No, lol, it healed almost 1500 for nearly each Warlord I faced, I know how much it should heal, and it was the 1000 version plenty of times. Hardly any wizards today carry 150% heal boost with them.
I never said it happened lol, sorry you don't take your time to read. I never said anything related to that either. I said it's possible for the 1000 heal to happen 50 times in a row before Energizing Battery heals 100 or 400, which is why it can be considered extremely overpowered.
If that's the basis for being "overpowered" you can stop worrying. It is possible to get 1000 health 50 times in a row, but the odds of that happening are 1 / 7.17898 x 10^23. If you played wizard 8 hours a day, every day, and your pet cast healing current every 5 minutes on average, the expected time required to see 50 sequential high casts is about 450 million times the age of the earth.
If that's the basis for being "overpowered" you can stop worrying. It is possible to get 1000 health 50 times in a row, but the odds of that happening are 1 / 7.17898 x 10^23. If you played wizard 8 hours a day, every day, and your pet cast healing current every 5 minutes on average, the expected time required to see 50 sequential high casts is about 450 million times the age of the earth.
Any real math you want to bring up now? The odds of getting the 1000 heal to happen 50 times in a row without the 100 or 400 happening are simply 1/3rd of a chance, or 50/150 chance, or 33.33%. And no, seeing the 1000 heal 50 times in a row can be in just minutes. Same with the 100 and the 400, in percentages there is a probability for everything you can't just say it's going to take this amount of time to get that result in percentages, and if you're making "rough predictions", your math is way off. The 1000 heal from Energizing Battery, again, is too much for the Arena today. Maybe it could fit the game later when 1000 damage is the normal amount of damage we do at all levels, but that's not the case right now.
Any real math you want to bring up now? The odds of getting the 1000 heal to happen 50 times in a row without the 100 or 400 happening are simply 1/3rd of a chance, or 50/150 chance, or 33.33%. And no, seeing the 1000 heal 50 times in a row can be in just minutes. Same with the 100 and the 400, in percentages there is a probability for everything you can't just say it's going to take this amount of time to get that result in percentages, and if you're making "rough predictions", your math is way off. The 1000 heal from Energizing Battery, again, is too much for the Arena today. Maybe it could fit the game later when 1000 damage is the normal amount of damage we do at all levels, but that's not the case right now.
Anyone want to point out the real obviousness now? Use doom and gloom.
Any real math you want to bring up now? The odds of getting the 1000 heal to happen 50 times in a row without the 100 or 400 happening are simply 1/3rd of a chance, or 50/150 chance, or 33.33%. And no, seeing the 1000 heal 50 times in a row can be in just minutes. Same with the 100 and the 400, in percentages there is a probability for everything you can't just say it's going to take this amount of time to get that result in percentages, and if you're making "rough predictions", your math is way off. The 1000 heal from Energizing Battery, again, is too much for the Arena today. Maybe it could fit the game later when 1000 damage is the normal amount of damage we do at all levels, but that's not the case right now.
The odds of the 1,000 heal on healing current casting 50 times in a row (Assuming that the cast rates are equal for all of the heals) would be 1/3^50 - in other words, a ridiculously small number. I'm not going to check Gemma Luna's math, but even if he or she is incorrect, he or she has the basic idea correct - the chance of that happening is very, very low.
I'm going to let this thread go. You are basing your argument on false premises. KI knows how it really works, so it's pointless to argue.
In case anyone is interested in "real math":
The average heal from HC is 500. (100+400+1000)/3 That's only 20 more than Fairy.
Your opponent might get lucky and get 1000 in time to save herself, but might also get 100 and die. Equal chance. That's fair.
The probability of getting 1000 once is 1/3. That's not the odds of getting it 50 times in a row, which would be 1/3^50.
The expected time for that to happen would be enough trials to reach "even odds", so in this case 3^50 casts. Of course you might get it much sooner, but there is an equal chance of it taking much longer, so when we say "expected" we mean an average based on the odds, not a specific prediction. YMMV.
If you think "seeing the 1000 heal 50 times in a row can be in just minutes" please post an unedited video of that happening. Good luck, you'll need LOTS.
You might want to warm up with something easier, like tossing a coin and getting heads 50 times in row ;)
I'm going to let this thread go. You are basing your argument on false premises. KI knows how it really works, so it's pointless to argue.
In case anyone is interested in "real math":
The average heal from HC is 500. (100+400+1000)/3 That's only 20 more than Fairy.
Your opponent might get lucky and get 1000 in time to save herself, but might also get 100 and die. Equal chance. That's fair.
The probability of getting 1000 once is 1/3. That's not the odds of getting it 50 times in a row, which would be 1/3^50.
The expected time for that to happen would be enough trials to reach "even odds", so in this case 3^50 casts. Of course you might get it much sooner, but there is an equal chance of it taking much longer, so when we say "expected" we mean an average based on the odds, not a specific prediction. YMMV.
If you think "seeing the 1000 heal 50 times in a row can be in just minutes" please post an unedited video of that happening. Good luck, you'll need LOTS.
You might want to warm up with something easier, like tossing a coin and getting heads 50 times in row ;)
You are basing your assumptions off a single pet casting. He was referring to a specific test with 8 wizards all having HC pets. In a 1v1 fight with only 1 pet, HC has 2 triggers chances per round. In a 4v4 fight with 8 pets each pet has at least 8 triggers for 64 chances each round at the low end. Every pet cast in there adds another 8 chances. That increases the odds immensely of seeing very large numbers of heals in a very short period. Also odds are independent. Every time you flip a coin it has 50% chance of heads, whether the last 49 were head or not.
You are basing your assumptions off a single pet casting. He was referring to a specific test with 8 wizards all having HC pets. In a 1v1 fight with only 1 pet, HC has 2 triggers chances per round. In a 4v4 fight with 8 pets each pet has at least 8 triggers for 64 chances each round at the low end. Every pet cast in there adds another 8 chances. That increases the odds immensely of seeing very large numbers of heals in a very short period. Also odds are independent. Every time you flip a coin it has 50% chance of heads, whether the last 49 were head or not.
The mistake there is considering a potential trigger as an actual occurrence. Having 8 pets doesn't increase the odds "immensely". It increases them by a base factor of 8. If a healing current acts as a potential trigger, you'd be increasing a bit more, but only after one pet cast (adding one additional trigger to the other pets) so still limited by the cast rate.
I'm well aware that each trial is independent. I said it above ;)
50 of anything in a row is staggeringly unlikely. Even with 8 pets it would take eons to see that by chance.
The average value is 500. That is not OP.
I wish KI had made the talent - both the may cast and trained version 300-500-700. That would make it far more useful and reduce the random "back from the dead" heal, but it is what it is. Let's move on.
I'm going to let this thread go. You are basing your argument on false premises. KI knows how it really works, so it's pointless to argue.
In case anyone is interested in "real math":
The average heal from HC is 500. (100+400+1000)/3 That's only 20 more than Fairy.
Your opponent might get lucky and get 1000 in time to save herself, but might also get 100 and die. Equal chance. That's fair.
The probability of getting 1000 once is 1/3. That's not the odds of getting it 50 times in a row, which would be 1/3^50.
The expected time for that to happen would be enough trials to reach "even odds", so in this case 3^50 casts. Of course you might get it much sooner, but there is an equal chance of it taking much longer, so when we say "expected" we mean an average based on the odds, not a specific prediction. YMMV.
If you think "seeing the 1000 heal 50 times in a row can be in just minutes" please post an unedited video of that happening. Good luck, you'll need LOTS.
You might want to warm up with something easier, like tossing a coin and getting heads 50 times in row ;)
50 was an example of how many times the pet can heal 1000 without having any other heal forms of Energizing Battery. A more reasonable number would be 10, which, for me, has happened.
I've been in a 4v4 before where pets literally added minutes per turn due to Energizing Battery, and 3 or 4 of those turns had Energizing Battery only heal 1000. In a 4v4 match, a pet has 64+ chances (more if a pet heals, that adds another 8 including itself) to heal and can cause a healing chain. In a 3v3, that's 36+ chances per turn, 2v2 that's 16+ chances per turn, and in 1v1 it's 4+. Now, in a 1v1, your opponent's pet only has 2+ chances per turn to cast Energizing Battery. Now think about a long match where your opponent is a Jade. The longer the match, the more chances your pet has to heal. Two chances per turn doesn't sound so bad, right? Now think about having 50 turns against a Jade wizard. If their pet healed every two turns, which is very possible, and if the 1000 heal happens 33.33% of the time, that's 16 heals that healed 1000. In other words, 16000 health back to the owner of Energizing Battery from the 1000 heal alone. If it heals 10 times in a match, that's 3000 health back plus the 400 and 100 heals. Now let's add it up. 1000*16 + (400*16) +(100*16)=24,000 plus heal boost. Out of 10 heals, that's 1000*3+ (400*3)+(100*3)=4500 plus another 1000 400 or 100 heal and heal boost, which is normally 50% so that's 6750 health back plus 1500 or 600 or 150. In a match where the probability is 2 casts per turn, 10 heals can happen very quickly. In 10 turns, my Judgement (the highest per pip attack Balance has) can do 1750 damage (10 pips, 76% damage, on 42% resist with 19% armor pierce). That's not even half how much Energizing Battery can heal in 10 turns, plus my attack costed pips while my opponent's heals were all free. Not even Storm Owl with 100% damage boost and a critical does that much damage on the average 42% resist.
Like I've said a million times before, Energizing Battery heals far too much, if it were even lowered down to 100/400/700 you could see a more balanced trend with the talent, but it's not. It could be a low heal or a normal heal or an overpowered spike heal, all costing 0 pips.
The mistake there is considering a potential trigger as an actual occurrence. Having 8 pets doesn't increase the odds "immensely". It increases them by a base factor of 8. If a healing current acts as a potential trigger, you'd be increasing a bit more, but only after one pet cast (adding one additional trigger to the other pets) so still limited by the cast rate.
I'm well aware that each trial is independent. I said it above ;)
50 of anything in a row is staggeringly unlikely. Even with 8 pets it would take eons to see that by chance.
The average value is 500. That is not OP.
I wish KI had made the talent - both the may cast and trained version 300-500-700. That would make it far more useful and reduce the random "back from the dead" heal, but it is what it is. Let's move on.
That is an immense increase in the odds of seeing one of them cast. 2 chances per turn vs 64 chances per turn. Also you have to factor in any other may casts as potential triggers. My multiple heal pets often see Spritely trigger Fairy or Healing Current. We have all seen the pet healing frenzy that sometimes occurs in dungeons, and that is with 1/2 the number of pets.
honestly seeing allot of people arguing that it isnt a big deal but i have to agree with the poster lately despite it being said its a 33-33-33 chance its been seeming more something like 35-20-45 witch for a heal that changes the game when it goes for 1000 a pet should not be able to single handedly destroy an opponents attack because it heals them for 1400 health and saves them preferable they should nerf the percentages to something like 40-40-20 that would be more fair, however dont nerf the casted spell version cause storms arent generally to much of a problem at the lvls they have that spell anyway and they themselves need a way to recover from having lower health
50 was an example of how many times the pet can heal 1000 without having any other heal forms of Energizing Battery. A more reasonable number would be 10, which, for me, has happened.
I've been in a 4v4 before where pets literally added minutes per turn due to Energizing Battery, and 3 or 4 of those turns had Energizing Battery only heal 1000. In a 4v4 match, a pet has 64+ chances (more if a pet heals, that adds another 8 including itself) to heal and can cause a healing chain. In a 3v3, that's 36+ chances per turn, 2v2 that's 16+ chances per turn, and in 1v1 it's 4+. Now, in a 1v1, your opponent's pet only has 2+ chances per turn to cast Energizing Battery. Now think about a long match where your opponent is a Jade. The longer the match, the more chances your pet has to heal. Two chances per turn doesn't sound so bad, right? Now think about having 50 turns against a Jade wizard. If their pet healed every two turns, which is very possible, and if the 1000 heal happens 33.33% of the time, that's 16 heals that healed 1000. In other words, 16000 health back to the owner of Energizing Battery from the 1000 heal alone. If it heals 10 times in a match, that's 3000 health back plus the 400 and 100 heals. Now let's add it up. 1000*16 + (400*16) +(100*16)=24,000 plus heal boost. Out of 10 heals, that's 1000*3+ (400*3)+(100*3)=4500 plus another 1000 400 or 100 heal and heal boost, which is normally 50% so that's 6750 health back plus 1500 or 600 or 150. In a match where the probability is 2 casts per turn, 10 heals can happen very quickly. In 10 turns, my Judgement (the highest per pip attack Balance has) can do 1750 damage (10 pips, 76% damage, on 42% resist with 19% armor pierce). That's not even half how much Energizing Battery can heal in 10 turns, plus my attack costed pips while my opponent's heals were all free. Not even Storm Owl with 100% damage boost and a critical does that much damage on the average 42% resist.
Like I've said a million times before, Energizing Battery heals far too much, if it were even lowered down to 100/400/700 you could see a more balanced trend with the talent, but it's not. It could be a low heal or a normal heal or an overpowered spike heal, all costing 0 pips.
Were you listening at all for what I said? Probably not.
Use doom and gloom + infection. That's 125% subtracted from the heal. If you do the math, that's -250. That's a negative. For a 1000 Heal. For a 100 Heal (which, obviously you don't care about) is -25. For a 400 heal (which, you still don't care for) is -100.
If you have absolutely, not even 1% respect for what I said, then move on. Deal with the fact that "energizing battery heals for to much."
Like I said one billiontimes before, you use healing current. That kinda gets the thread out of the boards.
Like Gemma said, the probability of healing current healing 1000 is 1/3. The percentage is 33.333333333333%. That's for every heal. Either for 100 or 400. That's it. I'm out. PlayHard101 @Canny: Sure.
Were you listening at all for what I said? Probably not.
Use doom and gloom + infection. That's 125% subtracted from the heal. If you do the math, that's -250. That's a negative. For a 1000 Heal. For a 100 Heal (which, obviously you don't care about) is -25. For a 400 heal (which, you still don't care for) is -100.
If you have absolutely, not even 1% respect for what I said, then move on. Deal with the fact that "energizing battery heals for to much."
Like I said one billiontimes before, you use healing current. That kinda gets the thread out of the boards.
Like Gemma said, the probability of healing current healing 1000 is 1/3. The percentage is 33.333333333333%. That's for every heal. Either for 100 or 400. That's it. I'm out. PlayHard101 @Canny: Sure.
First of all, it's 82.5% subtracted from the heal, not 125%. You can't just add percentages, you multiply the original by them. Doom and gloom can easily lose you the match; it cannot be used every time the opponent has a healing current pet. Infection costs a turn, only removes 50% of the heal, and is easily removed. These counters have been suggested before, and are just as unreliable as they were before.
You know, when dragon's hoard came out, some hundreds(or thousands) of people got it first try. It's a rare occurrence, but it CAN happen. If it was a 20% chance, the chance to hit 3 in a row would be 1/125(theoretically). A few million people play Wizard101. I'm sure it'll happen sometime. Back then before Zafaria was even out, I was in Waterworks and had my pet sprite me 4 times in a row. One right after another. I feel that the heals are fine, but it's just bad luck that you were one of those few.
First of all, it's 82.5% subtracted from the heal, not 125%. You can't just add percentages, you multiply the original by them. Doom and gloom can easily lose you the match; it cannot be used every time the opponent has a healing current pet. Infection costs a turn, only removes 50% of the heal, and is easily removed. These counters have been suggested before, and are just as unreliable as they were before.
Okay, so maybe I did the math wrong.
You got my entire point, I talked about how doom and gloom could win you a match. 82.5? Fairly high basis, 175 of a heal for 1000. You: Excuse me. Its just 175. Its still a heal.
Do the math, a sprite heals more than that (without Doom and Gloom) for less pips.
Excuse me if it was lower and I messed up math, Doom and Gloom is a good deal. If your opponent casts Sanctuary (or anything to replace it) replace with Doom and Gloom.
That's it. I'm out. PlayHard101 @Canny: Here you go.
You got my entire point, I talked about how doom and gloom could win you a match. 82.5? Fairly high basis, 175 of a heal for 1000. You: Excuse me. Its just 175. Its still a heal.
Do the math, a sprite heals more than that (without Doom and Gloom) for less pips.
Excuse me if it was lower and I messed up math, Doom and Gloom is a good deal. If your opponent casts Sanctuary (or anything to replace it) replace with Doom and Gloom.
That's it. I'm out. PlayHard101 @Canny: Here you go.
Doom and gloom makes it difficult to heal for all schools but death, making it very situational. Even death, depending on the build, may suffer under doom and gloom. Doom and gloom cannot realistically be kept out all of the time, as it will lose the player that tries matches. Doom and gloom probably is the best counter to healing current (And other pet heals) but it is so situational that even it is not a very good counter.
Doom and gloom makes it difficult to heal for all schools but death, making it very situational. Even death, depending on the build, may suffer under doom and gloom. Doom and gloom cannot realistically be kept out all of the time, as it will lose the player that tries matches. Doom and gloom probably is the best counter to healing current (And other pet heals) but it is so situational that even it is not a very good counter.
So you're saying sanctuary is better? I disagree.
(This is you): Best case scenario, you go first, your opponent has 800 health, he is about to satyr. You got 2 bad pips. I use a cleanse and it did absolutely nothing.
You would rather let him get away with healing, by using a cleanse that did nothing? That's just dumb. To be honest, my life never suffers from Doom in PVP. He's a Warlord because of the Angel Strategy.
If you don't know what that is: High Life Damage No universal resist Decent heal (that can cover doom) Incredible critical Decent block Shrike Trap/Blade King Artori, gg.
(This is you): Best case scenario, you go first, your opponent has 800 health, he is about to satyr. You got 2 bad pips. I use a cleanse and it did absolutely nothing.
You would rather let him get away with healing, by using a cleanse that did nothing? That's just dumb. To be honest, my life never suffers from Doom in PVP. He's a Warlord because of the Angel Strategy.
If you don't know what that is: High Life Damage No universal resist Decent heal (that can cover doom) Incredible critical Decent block Shrike Trap/Blade King Artori, gg.
And what's your point? Most players cannot heal well enough to keep them alive under doom and gloom. Not all players have a max level life. Infection cannot cover healing current spam, but it can cover normal heals; however, with a pet heal, you waste a turn to half a zero pip heal. Doom and gloom cannot always be in play. There is not a reliable counter to may cast healing current.
And what's your point? Most players cannot heal well enough to keep them alive under doom and gloom. Not all players have a max level life. Infection cannot cover healing current spam, but it can cover normal heals; however, with a pet heal, you waste a turn to half a zero pip heal. Doom and gloom cannot always be in play. There is not a reliable counter to may cast healing current.
While not a reliable counter, it is a funny one if you get a chance to see it. May cast dissipate against may cast healing current is amusing. Especially if the healing current player isn't storm.
Lol, so you know my PvP strategy now? I never said all I do is spam attacks and I'm totally defenseless against attacks, but if you really want to think that go ahead.
"Why don't you make an attempt at actually using the tools the game gives you." Alright, let's 1v1 if you think I'm just some PvP Private that has no idea what he's doing. I use my tools, but telling me to use something as pitiful as a Storm dispel to stop a 0 pip heal is just too funny. So I have to put myself 4x pips behind my opponent to stop his pet from healing 1000? Is that seriously what you're telling me?
No, I don't know anybody who tries to avoid PvP. They try it, they like it or not. Most, however, do like PvP. Most people in the game in fact don't even do PvE either, so don't go thinking that only 5% of the game does PvP and 95% is all PvE. Most people train pets, garden, chat with friends, go visit the dye shop, and often don't quest at all. Most people without memberships turn to PvP because it's a fun aspect about the game. I bet that 60% of the game just chats and hangs around and farms bosses from time to time to match their friends or get cool looking gear, 30% improve pets and gardens and get gear for PvP, and 10% play the game for the storyline alone. Most people that you see questing have a PvP rank over or under 500, and that's just the people who do ranked. There's tournaments and practice PvP, both huge aspects of Wizard101. If you still think PvP is a tiny unneeded portion of the game, go visit the Arena, you're never going to find less than 50 match queues.
PvP isn't 2-3 turns long, are you serious? Most matches last over 30 turns. In addition to that, there's pets healing a quarter of wizards' health for 0 pips which really irritates me. For example, you have 4000 health. Should a may cast talent ever be healing 1000 (25%) of your health back? How about the opponent's pips and blades, so they've all gone to waste? No, Healing Current healing 1000 in unfair, and don't bring up the fact that PvE is a mountain compared to PvP, because it's not.
I have to disagree with the statement 'Most, however, do like PvP. ' I have yet to see a post on here, or any where else that doesn't complain about pvp. I think the pvp vs. pve is like 60%-40%, pvp being greater, because of the fact that many players don't have the the money to pay, or don't want to. You can't complain about something that you can counter, and think about the poor soloing storm wizards who there only spell for healing is healing current (with out training life). So if this where to happen (this being nerfing healing current) it should only be for pvp.
I have to disagree with the statement 'Most, however, do like PvP. ' I have yet to see a post on here, or any where else that doesn't complain about pvp. I think the pvp vs. pve is like 60%-40%, pvp being greater, because of the fact that many players don't have the the money to pay, or don't want to. You can't complain about something that you can counter, and think about the poor soloing storm wizards who there only spell for healing is healing current (with out training life). So if this where to happen (this being nerfing healing current) it should only be for pvp.
P.s. My argument is sum-what deluded because I allwis try to see both sides of the argument.
At last something I can jump in on. Issue is that usually the people who find a problem will be the ones posting and only to complain. This means that the amount of people who do like it is usually unknown unless they're posting in defense of said topic.
Your argument isn't deluded because you try to see both sides of an argument. In fact I think that's strengthening it because you'll consider how both sides will react. I'll still say it's harder to determine the amount of people that like something than hate it but never believe that examining both sides of an argument deludes your own. Never do that.
Yeah but if your high level like exalted its kinda nothing even if you got lucky but its harsh in low level pvp, as the base damage of spell even with boost isnt enough to at least harm the wizard though healing may cast pet is used as an advantage by most professionals low level pvpers even I have quite an insane infernal chimera with multiple healing may cast so the more the game gives these healing may cast the more crazier pvp will end up, hope that there is no may cast satyr, or its gonna end pvp fast. Plus the spritely infection have gone insane around the spiral as a must to a basic pvp or pve pet healing current will end up main stream soon enough,
Anyone want to point out the real obviousness now? Use doom and gloom.
That is gonna hurt you more than it will hurt them as they at least still will have a few extra heal while your pet cant even give any extra heal for you, I recommend one hit ko or if their shield are too much earthquake, or if you can't beat them, join them.
