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Nerf Healing Current

AuthorMessage
Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 4, 2014 wrote:
Since when did I say anything related to Shrike? I never said it was overpowered, I have my own counters to it, and I've never lost to the spell before. I don't care about it.

And no, you never meet the same people in the Arena unless they're your friends or they're standing there spinning for days. PvP isn't as small as PvE players think it is, and same as the other way around. I also never said that matches are too long because pets heal, quit changing my words. I'm saying that it's unfair for Healing Current to heal so much for 0 pips. You never see somebody in the Arena say "Yes! My opponent got a 2000 heal from their pet! Woo! I still got this.", it's more like a "Wow. Just wow -.- I give up" I also never said I wanted to make the game easier for me, because if that was the case, I wouldn't be where I'm at right now.

Quit being so selfish about your little pet talent and actually think about how unfair it is in PvP for once. Say, you're a level 10 wizard against a level 45 who has the talent. You're limited at 16 cards while your opponent can have 45. You have far less attacks, then you finally get close to defeating your opponent. Then, all of the sudden, the pet heals 1000 with Healing Current. That's fair to you? Is that happening because there's something wrong with my strategy? No.It's pure luck and unfairness. You're the one trying to make PvE as easy as possible by having the talent even though PvE is the easiest thing in the entire game.
Seethe is not the one being selfish here, you are. You are the one who wants Healing Current nerfed so that you don't have to figure out how to deal with it in the arena.

What is more, though Seethe is more than able to handle his own responses, you really have not read many of his posts if you think he is trying to make the game "easy" in PVE. I can say as someone who has often disagreed with him about how challenging some worlds can be, he is more often a defender of the challenge than a person who wants things easier, both in PVP and in PVE.

From where I see things, if Seethe is disagreeing with you, you are pretty far out on a limb by yourself here. Almost everyone else on the thread disagrees with your idea also. I certainly disagree with it. It is a flat out bad idea.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
Seethe is not the one being selfish here, you are. You are the one who wants Healing Current nerfed so that you don't have to figure out how to deal with it in the arena.

What is more, though Seethe is more than able to handle his own responses, you really have not read many of his posts if you think he is trying to make the game "easy" in PVE. I can say as someone who has often disagreed with him about how challenging some worlds can be, he is more often a defender of the challenge than a person who wants things easier, both in PVP and in PVE.

From where I see things, if Seethe is disagreeing with you, you are pretty far out on a limb by yourself here. Almost everyone else on the thread disagrees with your idea also. I certainly disagree with it. It is a flat out bad idea.
Keeping the talent in the game is a "flat out" bad idea. I don't need lessons telling me to improve my deck or add pitiful Storm dispels in my deck, because that's a complete waste. If so, what on earth would I take out? At level 30, you don't have a lot of room in your deck, and using 2 power pips on trash isn't what I call a solution. Dissipate is NOT a solution to MC Healing Current healing so much.

Either way, the talent distorts the idea of the game. It makes it easy and fully revolving around luck now. When it casts, it's most of the time going to heal 1000, ruining the need for defenses in PvE, ruining the need for heals in PvE, and you can just focus on blading and trapping then making the hit happen. That's all it takes in PvE, if you can't deal with a boss without the talent, that's your problem, fix up your deck, get the right gear, and move on. However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered. I don't get why everybody wants the talent to heal so much, but I think it's out of pure selfishness or a lack of skill. If you rely 100% on a pet healing you, on criticals, on having may casts happen, on just pure luck, that's not true skill at all, that's just trying to get lucky due to a lack of skill.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2915
PvP King on Jun 4, 2014 wrote:
1) Nah, I do PvE too, I know what I'm talking about.
2) It doesn't matter if it's the primary aspect of the game, it can still ruin PvP. Nice philosophy though.

"yes, the pve crowd requested that some of the annoying cheat instances be toned down, for the simple fact that no one over the age of 5 has the free time required to complete them." Um ok, it doesn't take 12 hours to do a dungeon, it just takes 30 minutes. If you have less than 30 minutes of your spare time, then I don't think doing a whole dungeon is a good use of that time, because you can't finish.

Yes, there are people who aren't very good at strategizing that play the game, but it shouldn't be made so easy with Healing Current that strategy isn't required. I have the talent myself on my Frankenbunny pet, I used it, it kept healing me a couple thousand health, I stacked blades, and I went on to my next quest. Just like that. Blade, don't worry about healing or shielding, add a couple traps, use a high pip spell and you're done. That's just how simple Energizing Battery made Wizard101. Unlike many other gamers it seems, I like to have a challenge in my game, but PvE isn't that thing for me. As soon as I got the healing talent I was set to solo every boss and dungeon, and in fact, I did. I've rarely had to use my own shields, I've had to use heals from time to time, but my main focus was on blading and trapping, which is quite odd. My opponents didn't have damage enchants, damage boost, unblockable critical ratings, or brains to use to defeat me, they were all just computer animated objects, plain and simple. Sure, there were a couple cheats here and there, but I'm sure people could do it without the help of Energizing Battery, even the simplest of strategies.

I don't have a "hate-on" for PvE, it's just that I'm done with questers begging for the game to be unbelievable easy and introducing frustratingly overpowered talents and stats in the game.
lol, can't argue with that logic.

for pve to "ruin" pvp requires that pvp be the primary component of the game; you can't ruin something that's irrelevant to the main function.

"Um ok, it doesn't take 12 hours to do a dungeon, it just takes 30 minutes. If you have less than 30 minutes of your spare time, then I don't think doing a whole dungeon is a good use of that time, because you can't finish."

i don't know what post you read, or in what world tartarus and helephant tower (among others) take 30 minutes. maybe if you have the best of everything, loads of free time, and a full team of friends who also have the best of everything and loads of free time. but casual players do not have those resources, which is the whole point. i have a full-time job already; i don't need or have time for a second one.

the problem is that players like me (the casual/family-fun set) are stonewalled because a handful of elitist players want to be the few, the proud. because, heaven forbid everyone should be able to complete the quests required to advance to the upper levels, then you're no longer a special snowflake. and that's what it all comes down to.

"However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered."

so let me get this straight: the person who just told me he "likes a challenge", who berated me and countless others for wanting the game to be "unbelievably easy", and has "one of the best records out there" can't counter a pet heal? well, hate to break it to you, but i'm not the one crying nerf here: you are.

that is honestly the silliest argument i've every heard. no, it does not make the spell overpowered. it simply means that the player is unable or unwilling to use strategy to counter it.it means that you need to fine-tune your methods and try again.



-von"if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"shadowsong
magus veteran, career pve'er

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Keeping the talent in the game is a "flat out" bad idea. I don't need lessons telling me to improve my deck or add pitiful Storm dispels in my deck, because that's a complete waste. If so, what on earth would I take out? At level 30, you don't have a lot of room in your deck, and using 2 power pips on trash isn't what I call a solution. Dissipate is NOT a solution to MC Healing Current healing so much.

Either way, the talent distorts the idea of the game. It makes it easy and fully revolving around luck now. When it casts, it's most of the time going to heal 1000, ruining the need for defenses in PvE, ruining the need for heals in PvE, and you can just focus on blading and trapping then making the hit happen. That's all it takes in PvE, if you can't deal with a boss without the talent, that's your problem, fix up your deck, get the right gear, and move on. However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered. I don't get why everybody wants the talent to heal so much, but I think it's out of pure selfishness or a lack of skill. If you rely 100% on a pet healing you, on criticals, on having may casts happen, on just pure luck, that's not true skill at all, that's just trying to get lucky due to a lack of skill.
I'm not sure you get the idea of "selfish" very well. If almost everyone else wants something and is in agreement about it, and you are the only one who wants something else and you want everyone else to change to meet your needs, then you are the selfish one, not the other way around.

Survivor
Jun 06, 2013
49
PvP King on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Keeping the talent in the game is a "flat out" bad idea. I don't need lessons telling me to improve my deck or add pitiful Storm dispels in my deck, because that's a complete waste. If so, what on earth would I take out? At level 30, you don't have a lot of room in your deck, and using 2 power pips on trash isn't what I call a solution. Dissipate is NOT a solution to MC Healing Current healing so much.

Either way, the talent distorts the idea of the game. It makes it easy and fully revolving around luck now. When it casts, it's most of the time going to heal 1000, ruining the need for defenses in PvE, ruining the need for heals in PvE, and you can just focus on blading and trapping then making the hit happen. That's all it takes in PvE, if you can't deal with a boss without the talent, that's your problem, fix up your deck, get the right gear, and move on. However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered. I don't get why everybody wants the talent to heal so much, but I think it's out of pure selfishness or a lack of skill. If you rely 100% on a pet healing you, on criticals, on having may casts happen, on just pure luck, that's not true skill at all, that's just trying to get lucky due to a lack of skill.
While you got your reward already by your deck, stats and whatever else you have, I got my reward by hatching healing current into a lot of my pets. I paid good money in elixirs, garden plants that drop mega snacks, potions to re hatch when hatches failed. I poured money into the game for my pets because of that and other healing talents. My money is worth more than your record, stats, pets, and whatever else to me. I paid money and I want my pet to heal me good in long tortuous battles and dungeons.
So stop with the whining, I for one am sick and tired of it. Deal with it.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
3859
PvP King on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Keeping the talent in the game is a "flat out" bad idea. I don't need lessons telling me to improve my deck or add pitiful Storm dispels in my deck, because that's a complete waste. If so, what on earth would I take out? At level 30, you don't have a lot of room in your deck, and using 2 power pips on trash isn't what I call a solution. Dissipate is NOT a solution to MC Healing Current healing so much.

Either way, the talent distorts the idea of the game. It makes it easy and fully revolving around luck now. When it casts, it's most of the time going to heal 1000, ruining the need for defenses in PvE, ruining the need for heals in PvE, and you can just focus on blading and trapping then making the hit happen. That's all it takes in PvE, if you can't deal with a boss without the talent, that's your problem, fix up your deck, get the right gear, and move on. However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered. I don't get why everybody wants the talent to heal so much, but I think it's out of pure selfishness or a lack of skill. If you rely 100% on a pet healing you, on criticals, on having may casts happen, on just pure luck, that's not true skill at all, that's just trying to get lucky due to a lack of skill.
Quit the blatant exaggeration. It doesn't heal 1000 most of the time. It heals 100 most of the time. You are the one who appears to be on a crusade out of pure selfishness or a lack of skill. You want to change the game PURELY for your own selfish gain. Because YOU alone think it's unfair to YOUR PvP game. Get over yourself. You aren't the only person playing this game and the PvP minority should not control the majority of players PvE experience. If you would just kill your opponent, no amount of pet healing is gonna help him. Maybe you need to rethink.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Dr Von on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
lol, can't argue with that logic.

for pve to "ruin" pvp requires that pvp be the primary component of the game; you can't ruin something that's irrelevant to the main function.

"Um ok, it doesn't take 12 hours to do a dungeon, it just takes 30 minutes. If you have less than 30 minutes of your spare time, then I don't think doing a whole dungeon is a good use of that time, because you can't finish."

i don't know what post you read, or in what world tartarus and helephant tower (among others) take 30 minutes. maybe if you have the best of everything, loads of free time, and a full team of friends who also have the best of everything and loads of free time. but casual players do not have those resources, which is the whole point. i have a full-time job already; i don't need or have time for a second one.

the problem is that players like me (the casual/family-fun set) are stonewalled because a handful of elitist players want to be the few, the proud. because, heaven forbid everyone should be able to complete the quests required to advance to the upper levels, then you're no longer a special snowflake. and that's what it all comes down to.

"However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered."

so let me get this straight: the person who just told me he "likes a challenge", who berated me and countless others for wanting the game to be "unbelievably easy", and has "one of the best records out there" can't counter a pet heal? well, hate to break it to you, but i'm not the one crying nerf here: you are.

that is honestly the silliest argument i've every heard. no, it does not make the spell overpowered. it simply means that the player is unable or unwilling to use strategy to counter it.it means that you need to fine-tune your methods and try again.



-von"if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"shadowsong
magus veteran, career pve'er
Any aspect of the game can ruin any other. For example, if a spell (I'm not saying that it is going to happen, this is just an example) was added for storm that did 1,000 damage per pip in the main storyline and was made extremely easy to get, that would ruin PvP. If arena tickets could buy gear that gave universal immunity and large amounts of all of the other stats, that would ruin PvE. Next, dungeons. Most dungeons take very little time. Not all, but if a player is going to get far into a game, he or she must invest large amounts of time into the game. Casual players still can do quite well in the game, although it might take longer for them to quest and to farm. The problem with may cast healing current is that when a pet spams it, even if it does not always heal 1,000, there is no real counter to it besides doom and gloom, and doom and gloom can easily lose a match if used at the wrong time. The only other "counters" would be storm dispel, elemental defuse, and infection. Storm dispel gives you a major pip disadvantage, costing two pips (Or up to four, without a storm mastery) to stop a zero pip heal that often spams. Meanwhile, the opponent will be healing his or herself with normal heals if they need it, or attacking you if they don't. Infection has limited copies, which is not optimal when a pet is spamming, and leaves you defenseless from a round. If you are second, and even if first, the opponent will often take that open round as a chance to get in a free attack. Finally, elemental defuse, if the opponent is not an elemental school and you are not balance, is just a waste of up to ten pips for dispelling a tower shield and a zero pip heal. If pet heals are not to be nerfed, there needs to be some way to counter them, at least in PvP. Perhaps something could be implemented such as a debuff that does not allow pets, or the pet of the person on which the debuff was casted, to cast heals while it is up, and it lasts for a few turns unless removed. No matter how much someone worked for it, if someone is about to win a match, and pure luck in the form of pet heals saves that person's opponent, I do not consider that fair.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
Dr Von on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
lol, can't argue with that logic.

for pve to "ruin" pvp requires that pvp be the primary component of the game; you can't ruin something that's irrelevant to the main function.

"Um ok, it doesn't take 12 hours to do a dungeon, it just takes 30 minutes. If you have less than 30 minutes of your spare time, then I don't think doing a whole dungeon is a good use of that time, because you can't finish."

i don't know what post you read, or in what world tartarus and helephant tower (among others) take 30 minutes. maybe if you have the best of everything, loads of free time, and a full team of friends who also have the best of everything and loads of free time. but casual players do not have those resources, which is the whole point. i have a full-time job already; i don't need or have time for a second one.

the problem is that players like me (the casual/family-fun set) are stonewalled because a handful of elitist players want to be the few, the proud. because, heaven forbid everyone should be able to complete the quests required to advance to the upper levels, then you're no longer a special snowflake. and that's what it all comes down to.

"However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered."

so let me get this straight: the person who just told me he "likes a challenge", who berated me and countless others for wanting the game to be "unbelievably easy", and has "one of the best records out there" can't counter a pet heal? well, hate to break it to you, but i'm not the one crying nerf here: you are.

that is honestly the silliest argument i've every heard. no, it does not make the spell overpowered. it simply means that the player is unable or unwilling to use strategy to counter it.it means that you need to fine-tune your methods and try again.



-von"if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"shadowsong
magus veteran, career pve'er
Ok, I'll explain to you why I can't counter a pet heal every turn, and why I'm so against it. Let's say I'm second and I'm already a turn behind. I have Energizing Battery and same as my opponent, but mine isn't casting. His pet casts it and heals 400, which isn't much but is enough. Now I'm 2 turns behind. My pet decides to sleep while my opponent's pet decides to spam away. I'm beginning to fall further and further behind in the amount of spells cast, and I'm probably doomed. As many duelists have said, every turn counts in PvP. It does. Every pet heal, dispel remover, Infection remover, shield remover, pet blade, healer, etc puts the player a turn ahead.

If I'm second now, and my pet has been doing nothing while my opponent's pet has been spamming Healing Current, I need to use Dissipate. Now that costs me 2 pips and slows down the opponent's pet, not the opponent himself. Now the opponent would be several turns ahead of me while I'm starting to lose the advantage greatly, and my opponent takes full control of the match and eventually knocks me out. This is why dealing with pets isn't easy, and this is why I can't counter it. May casts are a lot more dangerous than you think, and only one side is benefitting from them. Even if I worked just as hard or a million times harder than my opponent did to get the talent, my pet still may not cast as much.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
I'm not sure you get the idea of "selfish" very well. If almost everyone else wants something and is in agreement about it, and you are the only one who wants something else and you want everyone else to change to meet your needs, then you are the selfish one, not the other way around.
No, I'm simply looking at logic, many people that disagree (not all) just want to keep their talent because it's fun in PvE.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
Lucky Wizard on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
While you got your reward already by your deck, stats and whatever else you have, I got my reward by hatching healing current into a lot of my pets. I paid good money in elixirs, garden plants that drop mega snacks, potions to re hatch when hatches failed. I poured money into the game for my pets because of that and other healing talents. My money is worth more than your record, stats, pets, and whatever else to me. I paid money and I want my pet to heal me good in long tortuous battles and dungeons.
So stop with the whining, I for one am sick and tired of it. Deal with it.
Okay, so apparently if I payed lots of money to do tournaments to get a Flamenco Tocador pet and to constantly hatch just to get Balance-Dealer, Spell-Proof (at 10%), Spell-Defying, Balance-Sniper and Pierce Train, I'm not paying as much as somebody who trained a pet for MC Healing Current? Where's the logic in that? I've spent a fair share of money for this game too, and I don't want another healing talent coming in the game so I have to buy back my training points on 6 of my wizards to train Dissipate then get an Exalted Storm Amulet just to deal with one pet heal healing too much. I'm not the one being selfish here, you are. I've trained just as hard to get my pet to be perfect as you did, while using crowns to improve in PvP gear, training the right spells, cashing in on hoard packs to get my wands every 10 levels, and then PvP gets ruined by a pet talent and all my money goes to waste. Still think I'm being selfish?

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
seethe42 on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
Quit the blatant exaggeration. It doesn't heal 1000 most of the time. It heals 100 most of the time. You are the one who appears to be on a crusade out of pure selfishness or a lack of skill. You want to change the game PURELY for your own selfish gain. Because YOU alone think it's unfair to YOUR PvP game. Get over yourself. You aren't the only person playing this game and the PvP minority should not control the majority of players PvE experience. If you would just kill your opponent, no amount of pet healing is gonna help him. Maybe you need to rethink.
It does heal 1000 most of the time, try it out. And no, I'm not being selfish. I used just as much time, money, and effort as everybody else did to get my "perfect pet", my gear, constant hoard pack purchases every increase in 10 levels and meta change, crafting to get my gear, using training points to get my spells and buying them back because I trained the wrong ones at the time, and then a new pet talent comes out and ruins everything. So what if it doesn't heal 1000 all the time? It still can. It can still put me at a huge disadvantage, it still casts quite often, so that 1000 heal is going to come eventually, and it's not going to be pretty for me when it happens. Quit thinking that PvE players are always the ones who invest money in the game, because at times, PvP players are forced to invest in more. I'm tired of PvE players saying that PvP players are selfish, because no, we do PvE too to level up, and we do PvP as well so we're paying for 2 different things.

MC Healing Current heals too much. I couldn't care less if the 1000 heal had a 1/10th of a chance to heal 1000, because if it does heal that much, it's too much to handle. I can't go buying Dissipate treasure cards then changing my whole deck setup to counter a pet heal, not everybody has it.

"If you would just kill your opponent, no amount of pet healing is gonna help him. Maybe you need to rethink." No, you need to rethink that statement. If a 1000 heal pet talent is taking place in the match, do you think I'm able to take down my opponent? I could go for a OHKO, but they could easily block it with a dispel or Empower. I could use small hits and try to hit 1000 constantly, but the pet heal would take place. I could stack Infections but they could take them off (or a series of MC Healing Current) and they'd have no Infections on them so the pet heal can continue to heal as much as it does. Plus with that, especially if I'm second, I'll be put many rounds behind my opponent. Great solution.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
Lucky Wizard on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
While you got your reward already by your deck, stats and whatever else you have, I got my reward by hatching healing current into a lot of my pets. I paid good money in elixirs, garden plants that drop mega snacks, potions to re hatch when hatches failed. I poured money into the game for my pets because of that and other healing talents. My money is worth more than your record, stats, pets, and whatever else to me. I paid money and I want my pet to heal me good in long tortuous battles and dungeons.
So stop with the whining, I for one am sick and tired of it. Deal with it.
Hear Hear! Well said!

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
725
Dr Von on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
lol, can't argue with that logic.

for pve to "ruin" pvp requires that pvp be the primary component of the game; you can't ruin something that's irrelevant to the main function.

"Um ok, it doesn't take 12 hours to do a dungeon, it just takes 30 minutes. If you have less than 30 minutes of your spare time, then I don't think doing a whole dungeon is a good use of that time, because you can't finish."

i don't know what post you read, or in what world tartarus and helephant tower (among others) take 30 minutes. maybe if you have the best of everything, loads of free time, and a full team of friends who also have the best of everything and loads of free time. but casual players do not have those resources, which is the whole point. i have a full-time job already; i don't need or have time for a second one.

the problem is that players like me (the casual/family-fun set) are stonewalled because a handful of elitist players want to be the few, the proud. because, heaven forbid everyone should be able to complete the quests required to advance to the upper levels, then you're no longer a special snowflake. and that's what it all comes down to.

"However, if somebody spends years in PvP, has the best stats possible, probably one of the best PvP records out there, has the best pets possible, has an amazing deck, and then a pet talent is overpowered to the wizard, then it's overpowered."

so let me get this straight: the person who just told me he "likes a challenge", who berated me and countless others for wanting the game to be "unbelievably easy", and has "one of the best records out there" can't counter a pet heal? well, hate to break it to you, but i'm not the one crying nerf here: you are.

that is honestly the silliest argument i've every heard. no, it does not make the spell overpowered. it simply means that the player is unable or unwilling to use strategy to counter it.it means that you need to fine-tune your methods and try again.



-von"if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"shadowsong
magus veteran, career pve'er
While I don't agree with PvPKing's call to nerf healing current there is a point here that I would like to address.

1)for pve to "ruin" pvp requires that pvp be the primary component of the game; you can't ruin something that's irrelevant to the main function.-DrVon

This is a false presumption. While some of the different aspects of wizard 101 are separated, a change in one can affect the other especially when it comes to PvP and PvE. As you yourself know, changes to spells for PvP can affect PvE. Similarly spells and gear added in PvE can affect PvP. There are spells that when introduced have had a large impact on PvP. Spells such as guardian spirit, shatter, insane bolt, loremaster, supernova, mana burn have all led to meta changes and had large effects on the arena. Similarly gear such as jade gear and aquillan gear can have large impacts on the pace of PvP. As players who primarily play due to the PvP aspect of the game we have as much a right to feedback as any other paying customer. Thankfully KI does weigh the evidence bought forth to them and changes spells based on said evidence.(whether it be warranted nerfs such as Guardian Spirit or buffs such as Collossus).The simple fact is that some spells when introduced are overpowering. Its the identifiction of issues and rigorous debate and analysis that leads to conclusions over which spells, gear, pet talents etc pose a balance issue.

Survivor
Jun 06, 2013
49
PvP King on Jun 8, 2014 wrote:
Okay, so apparently if I payed lots of money to do tournaments to get a Flamenco Tocador pet and to constantly hatch just to get Balance-Dealer, Spell-Proof (at 10%), Spell-Defying, Balance-Sniper and Pierce Train, I'm not paying as much as somebody who trained a pet for MC Healing Current? Where's the logic in that? I've spent a fair share of money for this game too, and I don't want another healing talent coming in the game so I have to buy back my training points on 6 of my wizards to train Dissipate then get an Exalted Storm Amulet just to deal with one pet heal healing too much. I'm not the one being selfish here, you are. I've trained just as hard to get my pet to be perfect as you did, while using crowns to improve in PvP gear, training the right spells, cashing in on hoard packs to get my wands every 10 levels, and then PvP gets ruined by a pet talent and all my money goes to waste. Still think I'm being selfish?
The thing is, I am not trying to take something away from you as you are trying to do to me by asking for healing current to be nerfed. Healing current does not always cast the highest heal each time. It doesn't even cast that much at all, sprite casts more for me. So yes, I still think you are being selfish.

As for tournaments, I too have paid for my fair share of them. I have a myth who made commander. Has 21 wins and 2 losses. And guess what? No healing or damage pet, only proof, defy, and wards. I only did pvp on that char. I never whined, even when people attempted to use high level tc's on me. I never came here and said something has to be nerfed cause it wasn't fair to me. When I was up against a constant healer, I let them run out of cards before I made the kill. I had to give up pvp temporarily because the stress involved with the whole environment was not compatible with the heart condition I have atm but I will be back once it is under control.

You could have easily hatched a flamenco, heck I have some good ones. That was your choice to spend for that and hoard packs. Choices, yours and for training points, that was your choice too. I have a level 90 storm with 29 of them because I only buy the spells he needed along the way. And I have bought back many training points on other chars as well.

I have easily poured into this game a couple of thousand dollars and maybe more as I am afraid to look. Have trained a few hundred pets, easily have 100 mega pets and on the few that have healing current, I don't want them nerfed at all.

The point is, I am not trying to take anything from you, but you are trying to take from me and any other pet owner that has healing current by asking for it to be nerfed.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2915
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 9, 2014 wrote:
While I don't agree with PvPKing's call to nerf healing current there is a point here that I would like to address.

1)for pve to "ruin" pvp requires that pvp be the primary component of the game; you can't ruin something that's irrelevant to the main function.-DrVon

This is a false presumption. While some of the different aspects of wizard 101 are separated, a change in one can affect the other especially when it comes to PvP and PvE. As you yourself know, changes to spells for PvP can affect PvE. Similarly spells and gear added in PvE can affect PvP. There are spells that when introduced have had a large impact on PvP. Spells such as guardian spirit, shatter, insane bolt, loremaster, supernova, mana burn have all led to meta changes and had large effects on the arena. Similarly gear such as jade gear and aquillan gear can have large impacts on the pace of PvP. As players who primarily play due to the PvP aspect of the game we have as much a right to feedback as any other paying customer. Thankfully KI does weigh the evidence bought forth to them and changes spells based on said evidence.(whether it be warranted nerfs such as Guardian Spirit or buffs such as Collossus).The simple fact is that some spells when introduced are overpowering. Its the identifiction of issues and rigorous debate and analysis that leads to conclusions over which spells, gear, pet talents etc pose a balance issue.
i am a high-rank magus, who fights grandmasters pretty much exclusively. if i allowed myself to be limited by the things you mentioned, i would not have my vet badge. adapt or perish; it really is that simple.

the only nerfs that have ever happened have taken place because your average pvp'er would rather cry about how everything used against her (or him) is overpowered than try to find a workaround. the problem is that, while pve has bigger numbers, we're spread far too thin for our voices to drown out the organized spamming that goes on in unicorn way.

i'm not saying that pvp players don't have a right to feedback. i'm saying that ki cannot make decisions for pve based strictly on pvp'ers crying that everything and the kitchen sink is overpowered.

-von

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
725
Dr Von on Jun 10, 2014 wrote:
i am a high-rank magus, who fights grandmasters pretty much exclusively. if i allowed myself to be limited by the things you mentioned, i would not have my vet badge. adapt or perish; it really is that simple.

the only nerfs that have ever happened have taken place because your average pvp'er would rather cry about how everything used against her (or him) is overpowered than try to find a workaround. the problem is that, while pve has bigger numbers, we're spread far too thin for our voices to drown out the organized spamming that goes on in unicorn way.

i'm not saying that pvp players don't have a right to feedback. i'm saying that ki cannot make decisions for pve based strictly on pvp'ers crying that everything and the kitchen sink is overpowered.

-von
I also have a high rank magus who often fights gm+ level players so I am aware of the challenges at that particular level of PvP. I agree that adapting is typically the best rule of thumb which is why you see so many experienced PvP players countering posts by other PvPers with suggestions and counterstrategies. However the simple fact remains that some spells upon introduction introduce an overpowering effect that cannot be easily adapted to. Veteran PvP players offer evidence laden arguments to back their claims up. Such was the case during the Guardian Spirit debates which I was successfully a part of. As you yourself has acknowledged very few spells have been changed regardless of complaints. This indicates that KI does not only take PvPers views into account when deciding if to modify spells, however it does demonstrate that PvPers views are taken into account which is as it should be.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
Lucky Wizard on Jun 9, 2014 wrote:
The thing is, I am not trying to take something away from you as you are trying to do to me by asking for healing current to be nerfed. Healing current does not always cast the highest heal each time. It doesn't even cast that much at all, sprite casts more for me. So yes, I still think you are being selfish.

As for tournaments, I too have paid for my fair share of them. I have a myth who made commander. Has 21 wins and 2 losses. And guess what? No healing or damage pet, only proof, defy, and wards. I only did pvp on that char. I never whined, even when people attempted to use high level tc's on me. I never came here and said something has to be nerfed cause it wasn't fair to me. When I was up against a constant healer, I let them run out of cards before I made the kill. I had to give up pvp temporarily because the stress involved with the whole environment was not compatible with the heart condition I have atm but I will be back once it is under control.

You could have easily hatched a flamenco, heck I have some good ones. That was your choice to spend for that and hoard packs. Choices, yours and for training points, that was your choice too. I have a level 90 storm with 29 of them because I only buy the spells he needed along the way. And I have bought back many training points on other chars as well.

I have easily poured into this game a couple of thousand dollars and maybe more as I am afraid to look. Have trained a few hundred pets, easily have 100 mega pets and on the few that have healing current, I don't want them nerfed at all.

The point is, I am not trying to take anything from you, but you are trying to take from me and any other pet owner that has healing current by asking for it to be nerfed.
The reason why I'm wanting to take away the 1000 heal from MC Healing Current is simply because you don't need to heal 1000 from a pet for zero pips in the first place while getting to cast your own spell the turn after. That's the cheapest thing anybody could have in a PvP match. And no, it casts pretty often.

Cool, so you did PvP with resist. Try getting to Overlord where most people critical spam and rely on their Healing Current pet to heal them, then you'll see what I'm talking about. Most people at Exalted level have a high block rating with a high damage and critical rating to go with it, as well as massive armor pierce. They have low resist, but that's not an issue. Why are they Warlord with such low resist? Because their pets heal them. What talent specifically? Energizing Battery. That talent mixed up high level PvP, it messed up low level PvP especially, if the 1000 heal ever occurs in a match, it's game over for the opponent, there's no Reshuffles.

No, I couldn't have easily hatched a Flamenco Tocador, there was hardly anybody else who had it at the time, and still hardly anybody does today. I also used my crowns for hoard packs for PvP. I used my training points for PvP and bought them back when the PvP meta got changed to a more fast-paced match.

You didn't use over 1 grand on a pet heal, it only takes one hatch. The first things you get from a pet are may casts, then you start getting stats talents. That's why for most people it's harder to get a good stats pet so they decide to get a SPUDF pet.

Finally, the point is, Energizing Battery is simply overpowered and ruins the need for skill or strategy in the game. You can't argue with that.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
The reason why I'm wanting to take away the 1000 heal from MC Healing Current is simply because you don't need to heal 1000 from a pet for zero pips in the first place while getting to cast your own spell the turn after. That's the cheapest thing anybody could have in a PvP match. And no, it casts pretty often.

Cool, so you did PvP with resist. Try getting to Overlord where most people critical spam and rely on their Healing Current pet to heal them, then you'll see what I'm talking about. Most people at Exalted level have a high block rating with a high damage and critical rating to go with it, as well as massive armor pierce. They have low resist, but that's not an issue. Why are they Warlord with such low resist? Because their pets heal them. What talent specifically? Energizing Battery. That talent mixed up high level PvP, it messed up low level PvP especially, if the 1000 heal ever occurs in a match, it's game over for the opponent, there's no Reshuffles.

No, I couldn't have easily hatched a Flamenco Tocador, there was hardly anybody else who had it at the time, and still hardly anybody does today. I also used my crowns for hoard packs for PvP. I used my training points for PvP and bought them back when the PvP meta got changed to a more fast-paced match.

You didn't use over 1 grand on a pet heal, it only takes one hatch. The first things you get from a pet are may casts, then you start getting stats talents. That's why for most people it's harder to get a good stats pet so they decide to get a SPUDF pet.

Finally, the point is, Energizing Battery is simply overpowered and ruins the need for skill or strategy in the game. You can't argue with that.
"Finally, the point is, Energizing Battery is simply overpowered and ruins the need for skill or strategy in the game. You can't argue with that."

Actually you can argue with that. Many of us have been arguing with that. We disagree, it is not overpowered. the 1000 heal is a 1 in 3 chance, which does not occur that often, it is the rarest of the three to occur. That makes it an unpredictable heal. If a person is relying on that alone, they will lose. As part of a whole array, it can be a helpful talent to have. But as with all may cast talents, it is random -- it is hardly the powerhouse enemy you make it out to be. It does not "ruin" the need for skill or strategy, it compliments that need. But it is not predictable -- and that is what adds the "spice" to the mix.

You want the "bland food" version of PVP, but that does not mean that the "spicy food" version is bad. Other people have a different sense of taste is all.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
3859
PvP King on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
The reason why I'm wanting to take away the 1000 heal from MC Healing Current is simply because you don't need to heal 1000 from a pet for zero pips in the first place while getting to cast your own spell the turn after. That's the cheapest thing anybody could have in a PvP match. And no, it casts pretty often.

Cool, so you did PvP with resist. Try getting to Overlord where most people critical spam and rely on their Healing Current pet to heal them, then you'll see what I'm talking about. Most people at Exalted level have a high block rating with a high damage and critical rating to go with it, as well as massive armor pierce. They have low resist, but that's not an issue. Why are they Warlord with such low resist? Because their pets heal them. What talent specifically? Energizing Battery. That talent mixed up high level PvP, it messed up low level PvP especially, if the 1000 heal ever occurs in a match, it's game over for the opponent, there's no Reshuffles.

No, I couldn't have easily hatched a Flamenco Tocador, there was hardly anybody else who had it at the time, and still hardly anybody does today. I also used my crowns for hoard packs for PvP. I used my training points for PvP and bought them back when the PvP meta got changed to a more fast-paced match.

You didn't use over 1 grand on a pet heal, it only takes one hatch. The first things you get from a pet are may casts, then you start getting stats talents. That's why for most people it's harder to get a good stats pet so they decide to get a SPUDF pet.

Finally, the point is, Energizing Battery is simply overpowered and ruins the need for skill or strategy in the game. You can't argue with that.
"The first things you get from a pet are may casts, then you start getting stats talents. That's why for most people it's harder to get a good stats pet so they decide to get a SPUDF pet."

Seriously, not a single bit of that is true. Talents and their order are randomly determined at hatching, they do not appear in any specific order. They can show up at Teen or wait until Mega, you don't know until you train. The reason it's harder to get perfect stats pets is pure math. You have 5 stats. When you hatch you get either the average of the parents stat or the parents stat. 2 will be averages, 2 identical (high or low) and the last can be either. So if you hatch a pet with 150 strength and a pet with 250 strength (selfish talents don't add into these), you will always get 1 of 3 possible outcomes. 150, 200 or 250 strength on the new pet. This is why it is a lot harder to get all 250 stats on a pet. When hatching talents into a pet with all 250 stats, you will always get some stats lower than 250 unless both pets have 250 in all stats.

Astrologist
Oct 22, 2011
1072
Fine, then let's have KI eliminate pets for PvP. Let's have more spell restrictions as well, so that others who think spells are op can be heard as well and KI can allow "no PvP".

Let's also add in nerfing Ice's health/resist, Storm's damage/critical, Fire's damage/DOT's, Myth's debuffing/minions, Life's healing talents, Death's drain spells, and Balance's entire support system of blades/traps/heals and whatever else we can throw in.

For that matter, let's add more changes to PvP:

- Eliminate ALL of the stats on PvP gear. What you buy is for looks only, none of it has stats. PvP'ers do not need all that stat junk on their gear. In my opinion, if you can't play your own spells the way it is intended for your school, there isn't any reason for the extra goodies the gear provides.

- PvP'ers cannot use ANY spells beyond their level, and this includes TC. If you are a L5, then you cannot get anything beyond what a L5 can train for or buy TCs ...... no exception.

Oooh, and for that matter, let's forget any stats at all, and just have everyone wear their noob clothes and noob wand and their own school spells only.

PvP gets too many privileges. Special gear, pets, access to the reagents, pets, spells, housing items, etc that PvE cannot get unless they rank in PvP. So, quit complaining what PvE gets, because I'm going to start bellowing about all the cool stuff that PvP gets that the PvE community doesn't.

A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1658
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
"Finally, the point is, Energizing Battery is simply overpowered and ruins the need for skill or strategy in the game. You can't argue with that."

Actually you can argue with that. Many of us have been arguing with that. We disagree, it is not overpowered. the 1000 heal is a 1 in 3 chance, which does not occur that often, it is the rarest of the three to occur. That makes it an unpredictable heal. If a person is relying on that alone, they will lose. As part of a whole array, it can be a helpful talent to have. But as with all may cast talents, it is random -- it is hardly the powerhouse enemy you make it out to be. It does not "ruin" the need for skill or strategy, it compliments that need. But it is not predictable -- and that is what adds the "spice" to the mix.

You want the "bland food" version of PVP, but that does not mean that the "spicy food" version is bad. Other people have a different sense of taste is all.
You cannot simply say that the 1 in 3 chance to heal 1000 doesn't occur often. There's a probability of it being 1 in a billion chance but it could still be doing that 1 each time. There will be moments when it will be casting 1000 a lot of the time, and moments where it will not. However, with my bad luck and experience with the talent, I've been having the short end of the stick: It heals my opponent 1000 almost every time. It also isn't the rarest of the 3 to occur, if it were that way, the talent wouldn't be so popular. If the talent was already "bad" and "never" healed 1000, why on earth would everybody be getting it? No, everybody's getting it because it heals 1000 quite often. That 1 in 3 chance occurs very often in PvP matches as the talent casts a lot as well. The higher the cast rate, the higher the probability of that 1000 heal happening, and trust me, I've seen it cast 1000 3 times in a row in just one turn, and that was after my Threefold Fever, no exaggeration.

I want PvP to be fair. I don't want to be going into a PvP match, using my own pips and spells to take down my opponent's health, then have my opponent get it all back up at the expense of nothing. To me, that's unfair, and that definitely isn't what a game is. Think about pet heals and criticals like a lottery. You pay with your time to train your pet, which is the same way somebody pays for a lottery ticket. Now, your card may be the winning one, or it may not. Same way with a pet in each match: It could heal you, or it could not. However, your chances of winning that "ticket" in a PvP match is much higher. This is the approach I highly dislike in PvP.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
seethe42 on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
"The first things you get from a pet are may casts, then you start getting stats talents. That's why for most people it's harder to get a good stats pet so they decide to get a SPUDF pet."

Seriously, not a single bit of that is true. Talents and their order are randomly determined at hatching, they do not appear in any specific order. They can show up at Teen or wait until Mega, you don't know until you train. The reason it's harder to get perfect stats pets is pure math. You have 5 stats. When you hatch you get either the average of the parents stat or the parents stat. 2 will be averages, 2 identical (high or low) and the last can be either. So if you hatch a pet with 150 strength and a pet with 250 strength (selfish talents don't add into these), you will always get 1 of 3 possible outcomes. 150, 200 or 250 strength on the new pet. This is why it is a lot harder to get all 250 stats on a pet. When hatching talents into a pet with all 250 stats, you will always get some stats lower than 250 unless both pets have 250 in all stats.
No, look at most good stats talents. They're Ultra-Rare or Epic, right? Spell-Proof is Epic, Balance-Sniper is Ultra-Rare, Pain-Giver is Epic, and the list can go on. Getting a pet with 5 talents that you want on a specific pet is definitely harder with stats. You see Spritely being a Rare talent, Fairy Friend being uncommon, etc. That is why you're more likely to get a pet with these talents rather than a pet with "perfect stats".

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
BrynnerOfReign on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
Fine, then let's have KI eliminate pets for PvP. Let's have more spell restrictions as well, so that others who think spells are op can be heard as well and KI can allow "no PvP".

Let's also add in nerfing Ice's health/resist, Storm's damage/critical, Fire's damage/DOT's, Myth's debuffing/minions, Life's healing talents, Death's drain spells, and Balance's entire support system of blades/traps/heals and whatever else we can throw in.

For that matter, let's add more changes to PvP:

- Eliminate ALL of the stats on PvP gear. What you buy is for looks only, none of it has stats. PvP'ers do not need all that stat junk on their gear. In my opinion, if you can't play your own spells the way it is intended for your school, there isn't any reason for the extra goodies the gear provides.

- PvP'ers cannot use ANY spells beyond their level, and this includes TC. If you are a L5, then you cannot get anything beyond what a L5 can train for or buy TCs ...... no exception.

Oooh, and for that matter, let's forget any stats at all, and just have everyone wear their noob clothes and noob wand and their own school spells only.

PvP gets too many privileges. Special gear, pets, access to the reagents, pets, spells, housing items, etc that PvE cannot get unless they rank in PvP. So, quit complaining what PvE gets, because I'm going to start bellowing about all the cool stuff that PvP gets that the PvE community doesn't.
First of all, I never said anything about stats. This thread is solely about the nerfing of Healing Current, I don't care what else you think is overpowered or unfair. If you like the cool items you get from PvP, go do some tournaments and get what you want for housing items. PvP players have to do PvE too to get their gear and also have to farm bosses for gold to hatch for pets, so it's even no matter how you put it.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1552
dayerider on Jun 12, 2014 wrote:
PvP King perhaps you need to take a look at this thread:

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/player-vs-player/some-things-to-think-about-8ad6a41b440156aa01441d6002e249fa

It's worth the read.
Ok, and your point?