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Nerf Healing Current

AuthorMessage
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Prince of Shadows on Jun 27, 2014 wrote:
I don't believe that. Those numbers are not anywhere close to typical for that talent. The game can run in streaks, but that is way out of range.
No, it isn't way out of range. I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to face the facts.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
PvP King on May 12, 2014 wrote:
Back when the Pet Pavilion came out, there was Spritely. Then Unicorn and Fairy Friend. Batusi was made but never was a problem. Fairy Friend had some complaints so got nerfed, but what happened to the other talents? Well, I've been told (and have seen myself) that the other talents started casting a lot more, even if the wizard doesn't use an attack. With that, I've also seen Healing Current being casted nearly every time the opponent attacks.
I was in a PvP match yesterday, and I used Mana Burn against a Myth wizard. His pet used healing current and healed about 1500 (I made sure that he had roughly 50% heal boost so both times it healed the 1000 version). The next turn I used Loremaster and once again it healed him 1500. Ok, so that's a 3000 heal right there for 0 pips. I won the match in the end after resorting to a OHKO Judgement simply because attacking with normal hits wasn't enough, and it was pretty hard with Myth's Earthquakes and Cleanse Ward/Empowers.

In another match, I was watching my friend fight a Death girl and both were magus. My friend was Storm and got her health down to the 80's, but her pet used Healing Current and healed over 1000, then used Fairy Friend, Healing Current again (doing over 1000), and Unicorn. I'm not sure what's going on, but the talent is going on a rampage. Especially after Fairy Friend got nerfed. After that I've only been seeing it heal the 1000 version and I don't even think the 100/400 version exists with the healing talent anymore or the percentage of it being those is extremely low.

Nobody needs to be healed 1000 from their pet as a may cast talent, I mean, it's 0 pips, are you kidding me? I'm completely fine with Storm wizards healing that much with their original spell but having such a thing on a pet is taking it too far. I think the talent should either be nerfed down to 100/400/600 or should have a 45% chance to heal 100, 45% chance to heal 400, and a 10% chance to heal 1000. Getting a thousand health from a pet cast isn't needed at any level.
"Nerfing" is no problem, and you said you won in the first place.
PVP requires a strategy, so his pet "nerfing" healing current is his.
If you want to counter it, "nerf" healing current.
There. Now you just need to train a pet with Energizing battery and your done.

Just because "nerfing" healing current is OP, doesn't mean it should be banned from PVP.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
I'm starting to see it slightly trending away from the 100 and split on 400 and 1000, but it's still a very low cast rate.
With 1625 triggers:

Energizing Battery cast a total of 17 times for a 1.046% cast rate.
3 @ 100 health (17.647%)
6 @ 400 health (35.294%)
8 @1000 health 47.059%)
Total healed: 10,700

Spritely cast a total of 25 times for 1.538% cast rate
Total healed: 8,750

Still a very small sample but over time the average heal is trending towards the Fairy mark. Will update when I have more data.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
PvP King on Jun 28, 2014 wrote:
This took nearly 2 hours, which for 8 wizards having the talent, is a pretty long wait. For me, I've been seeing the 1000 heal cast the most out of Energizing Battery, and out of that 4v4 I guess the 100 does heal more than the 400, but just barely over half the time 1000 heals. The thing is though, many people are getting different results. I don't think the percentages are favoring a heal over Energizing Battery (whether it be the 1000 heal or the 100 heal), I now think it's 33.33% for each value, much like Spectral Blast and the normal Healing Current card. Tell me what you get, but if the percentages for each cast of Healing Current (including the 1000 heal) is 33.33%, then it is definitely overpowered. It should be at most 10%.
I'm starting to agree that it's just a random 1/3 chance for all too. It should be weighted. 30% 60% 10% seems like it would be a fair compromise. So mostly you get a fairy basicaly, other times it's just a touch and more rarely it's a satyr. The middle should be weighted higher than the extremes. Maybe even 35% 65% 10%

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Gemma Luna on Jun 28, 2014 wrote:
When you have to make up things to support your case, you've lost ;)
When you're too arrogant to believe facts, you know you've lost the argument

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
PlayHard101 on Jun 28, 2014 wrote:
"Nerfing" is no problem, and you said you won in the first place.
PVP requires a strategy, so his pet "nerfing" healing current is his.
If you want to counter it, "nerf" healing current.
There. Now you just need to train a pet with Energizing battery and your done.

Just because "nerfing" healing current is OP, doesn't mean it should be banned from PVP.
Nerfing is weakening or reducing the effectiveness of something in a game. I'm asking for Energizing Battery to heal less than 1000 because it's a may cast on a pet, and by my experience, is healing 1000 more than any other value it has. Because of this, I think that the 1000 heal should be lowered down to 500 or 600, and I'm not going to get the talent because that's putting even more luck into the game.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2931
PvP King on Jun 28, 2014 wrote:
No, it isn't way out of range. I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to face the facts.
Which facts? The ones you made up, to suit your argument? Hate to break it to you, but not one of your claims thus far has any basis in fact.

I'm with Seethe42 and Gemma. Please stop making up statistics based on one very-biased sample.

-von "85.5% of statistics are made up on the spot" shadowsong

Historian
Aug 18, 2011
658
PvP King on Jun 28, 2014 wrote:
No, it isn't way out of range. I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to face the facts.
I know the facts. My group has been testing pet heals for over 2 years. What you are claiming is statistically impossible. It isn't even possible to get that many casts in under 2 hours. If you really had that large a sample, you'd discover what everyone else who has tested this spell thoroughly has found - the high outcome is no more common than the low.

I urge anyone who doubts this to try it. This entire thread is based on a false premise.

Champion
Mar 27, 2011
403
I've beat plenty of players with HC pets. They might get lucky once in a while, but it's no big deal.
It's 1/3 chance of each value, which is not OP considering the cast rate.

300 may-casts in under 2 hours is literally impossible.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
seethe42 on Jun 29, 2014 wrote:
I'm starting to agree that it's just a random 1/3 chance for all too. It should be weighted. 30% 60% 10% seems like it would be a fair compromise. So mostly you get a fairy basicaly, other times it's just a touch and more rarely it's a satyr. The middle should be weighted higher than the extremes. Maybe even 35% 65% 10%
That last bit should be 25% 65% 10%

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
PvP King on Jun 29, 2014 wrote:
Nerfing is weakening or reducing the effectiveness of something in a game. I'm asking for Energizing Battery to heal less than 1000 because it's a may cast on a pet, and by my experience, is healing 1000 more than any other value it has. Because of this, I think that the 1000 heal should be lowered down to 500 or 600, and I'm not going to get the talent because that's putting even more luck into the game.
Its a 1/3 of a chance it will heal a thousand. That's a pretty high chance, and there are many ways to conquer it.

Just think about getting lucky, and, you will.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
PvP King on Jun 29, 2014 wrote:
When you're too arrogant to believe facts, you know you've lost the argument
Stop with the making up facts, stop fighting with other wizards, and move on.

Champion
May 10, 2013
483
Prince of Shadows on Jun 30, 2014 wrote:
I know the facts. My group has been testing pet heals for over 2 years. What you are claiming is statistically impossible. It isn't even possible to get that many casts in under 2 hours. If you really had that large a sample, you'd discover what everyone else who has tested this spell thoroughly has found - the high outcome is no more common than the low.

I urge anyone who doubts this to try it. This entire thread is based on a false premise.
You have a "group" testing pet heals? Now that's bluffing.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Dr Von on Jun 29, 2014 wrote:
Which facts? The ones you made up, to suit your argument? Hate to break it to you, but not one of your claims thus far has any basis in fact.

I'm with Seethe42 and Gemma. Please stop making up statistics based on one very-biased sample.

-von "85.5% of statistics are made up on the spot" shadowsong
"Please stop making up statistics based on one very-biased sample." Lol, how about please stop replying to my thread and accusing me of making up statistics. If you don't want to believe them, go ahead, that's your problem, I don't care what you think. But know this: If I didn't get those statistics from Energizing Battery casting the 1000 heal like that, there would be no thread.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Prince of Shadows on Jun 30, 2014 wrote:
I know the facts. My group has been testing pet heals for over 2 years. What you are claiming is statistically impossible. It isn't even possible to get that many casts in under 2 hours. If you really had that large a sample, you'd discover what everyone else who has tested this spell thoroughly has found - the high outcome is no more common than the low.

I urge anyone who doubts this to try it. This entire thread is based on a false premise.
Go try it lol, get 8 wizards with Energizing Battery and start spamming anything you can find, you'll be surprised. Like I said before, it was usually the same pets casting Energizing Battery, and lots of those heals were 100's and 1000's, but most were 1000. It's possible, because even if it was 0.00000001%, there's still the unreal possibility of it casting 10 times in a match. Just because you're too arrogant to believe facts doesn't mean they're not true.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Dakota Death on Jun 30, 2014 wrote:
I've beat plenty of players with HC pets. They might get lucky once in a while, but it's no big deal.
It's 1/3 chance of each value, which is not OP considering the cast rate.

300 may-casts in under 2 hours is literally impossible.
For a 4v4 with 8 pets with the talent? No, not really, it's pretty dang possible. More than one pet was casting Energizing Battery per turn, obviously, and sometimes we even got up to 5 in one turn. 8 chances for a pet to heal (including pet heals that trigger other pet heals causing chain reactions) for 8 wizards is basically 64+ chances per turn. In other words, 300 heals in 2 hours is very realistic.

Defender
Mar 28, 2011
108
PlayHard101 on Jun 30, 2014 wrote:
You have a "group" testing pet heals? Now that's bluffing.
I guess you aren't on Central? It's a well known group there. If you watch the Helephant fight at the end of the guide (bottom of the first post) about a minute and a half in you can see them keeping count:

http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?316614-Let-s-Work-Together

Yay Max Stat Team!

Anyway, KI knows what the real rate is, and they also know that most players do NOT want pets nerfed any more.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2931
PvP King on Jun 30, 2014 wrote:
"Please stop making up statistics based on one very-biased sample." Lol, how about please stop replying to my thread and accusing me of making up statistics. If you don't want to believe them, go ahead, that's your problem, I don't care what you think. But know this: If I didn't get those statistics from Energizing Battery casting the 1000 heal like that, there would be no thread.
Lol, very funny... you post this in a public forum, yet you are not open to feedback from any side but yours. That's not how it works, sorry.

Any of your 'evidence' is circumstantial at best; try again.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Dr Von on Jul 1, 2014 wrote:
Lol, very funny... you post this in a public forum, yet you are not open to feedback from any side but yours. That's not how it works, sorry.

Any of your 'evidence' is circumstantial at best; try again.
Lol, like I've said, based on mine and Seethe42's statistics, I've been seeing more of a 33/33/33 trend. but I still think that 33% for the 1000 heal is too much to give. If it were lowered to 10% or less I guess I would be slightly satisfied, but having a 33% chance to heal 1000 from a pet is a little much. Or, a better and more fair solution, is to lower the 1000 heal to 700 (300 heal intervals between 100-400 and 400-700 rather than a 300 from 100-400 and a 600 from 400-1000) but keep the casting chance about the same.

Yes, I do post in a public forum, but I didn't ask about your opinion on whether my statistics are real or not, I made this forum for opinions on Energizing Battery. If you're trying to change the topic into a whole debate whether my statistics are real or not, then I simply won't reply to you. Nice try.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2931
PvP King on Jul 1, 2014 wrote:
Lol, like I've said, based on mine and Seethe42's statistics, I've been seeing more of a 33/33/33 trend. but I still think that 33% for the 1000 heal is too much to give. If it were lowered to 10% or less I guess I would be slightly satisfied, but having a 33% chance to heal 1000 from a pet is a little much. Or, a better and more fair solution, is to lower the 1000 heal to 700 (300 heal intervals between 100-400 and 400-700 rather than a 300 from 100-400 and a 600 from 400-1000) but keep the casting chance about the same.

Yes, I do post in a public forum, but I didn't ask about your opinion on whether my statistics are real or not, I made this forum for opinions on Energizing Battery. If you're trying to change the topic into a whole debate whether my statistics are real or not, then I simply won't reply to you. Nice try.
You may not have asked for it, but you invited it when you posted this topic to a public forum.

No one ever changed the subject. I stand by my original post that HC does not need to be nerfed. Either find a way around it, or don't. Adapt or perish. It really is that simple. The fact that you fudged your "facts" is secondary, and I was neither the first, nor the last, to call you out.

If you can't take criticism or opposition, perhaps you shouldn't post.

Explorer
Nov 21, 2013
78
PvP King on Jul 1, 2014 wrote:
Lol, like I've said, based on mine and Seethe42's statistics, I've been seeing more of a 33/33/33 trend. but I still think that 33% for the 1000 heal is too much to give. If it were lowered to 10% or less I guess I would be slightly satisfied, but having a 33% chance to heal 1000 from a pet is a little much. Or, a better and more fair solution, is to lower the 1000 heal to 700 (300 heal intervals between 100-400 and 400-700 rather than a 300 from 100-400 and a 600 from 400-1000) but keep the casting chance about the same.

Yes, I do post in a public forum, but I didn't ask about your opinion on whether my statistics are real or not, I made this forum for opinions on Energizing Battery. If you're trying to change the topic into a whole debate whether my statistics are real or not, then I simply won't reply to you. Nice try.
After reading your opening post (again) and the majority of your comments in this thread, it's hard for me to believe you started this topic with the intent of hearing others' opinions on Healing Current. Almost everything you've said has been a subjective assertion. You are asserting it needs to be changed because you want it changed. Once again, I do not agree and I hope this disaster of a topic passes soon. Feel free to argue my opposition being a subjective opinion as well; however, the amount of people for and against your proposal speaks for itself. The only bias I see is coming from you.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Dr Von on Jul 1, 2014 wrote:
You may not have asked for it, but you invited it when you posted this topic to a public forum.

No one ever changed the subject. I stand by my original post that HC does not need to be nerfed. Either find a way around it, or don't. Adapt or perish. It really is that simple. The fact that you fudged your "facts" is secondary, and I was neither the first, nor the last, to call you out.

If you can't take criticism or opposition, perhaps you shouldn't post.
If you're saying that you just have to deal with something that you can't beat, then you're confused on what a game is all about. You can't stop Energizing Battery from healing 1000, get over it. Dispels don't work because they're too pip costly, and Infections are taken off by Sprites. I never disagreed on the fact that people shouldn't adapt to the meta of the game, but adapting to Energizing Battery and learning to deal with nearly winning the match but having your opponent win because it healed 1000 takes an insane amount of patience. It's like telling a fish to get out of the water and take a walk on the streets, it can't adapt to that nature. Right now, PvP can't adapt to a whole world where pet heals control a massive percentage of matches. Most spells don't have the base damage (even when enchanted) to do 1000 damage and Energizing Battery heals just that. Like Aaron SpellThief said, if you're not controlling what a pet does or controlling criticals and such, it's more of a movie than a game. Just cast your spell and hope for good luck. However, anybody can deal with criticals, raise your block. You can deal with any of the luck factors in the game by improving your stats or casting a certain spell, but right now there is absolutely nothing that can control a pet. You could argue that Infection and Doom and Gloom are counters, but reason 1) They take a turn from your side to stop your opponent's pet from casting while your opponent solely focuses on you, and 2) It's not stopping the pet from casting anything, it still does what it does.

I can take criticism or opposition, lol, I'm the one replying to everybody's posts here. You're giving out your opinion, and I'm giving my reasons to why those opinions are biased or incorrect.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
seethe42 on Jun 30, 2014 wrote:
That last bit should be 25% 65% 10%
Yeah, that would be pretty nice, but do you think that a 300 heal interval with Energizing Battery (not affecting Healing Current) would be a better solution? Like 100/400/700 to stop the spike heals from happening but still making the talent worth the time to get.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
PvP King on Jul 2, 2014 wrote:
Yeah, that would be pretty nice, but do you think that a 300 heal interval with Energizing Battery (not affecting Healing Current) would be a better solution? Like 100/400/700 to stop the spike heals from happening but still making the talent worth the time to get.
That would work too. Just lowering the 1000 would probably make less people mad about it than changing the percentage.

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
711
PvP King on May 26, 2014 wrote:
Tell me this, dayerider, did you ever go into a PvE match and just couldn't do it because your pet didn't heal 1000 every couple of turns? PvP in fact is a lot harder than PvE. You mentioned spells that were needed in PvP that you don't need in PvE, exactly, thank you for proving my point. When do you need to waste turns or pips to use Infections, Entangles, Doom and Gloom, minions, Shatter, Stun Blocks, etc. in PvE? You hardly ever do. PvP will always be harder than PvP because of those reasons, plus having to get a better pet to win in PvP, being forced to get the best of the best out of your main deck, sideboard, gear and strategy just to win in PvP, and PvE is very simple compared to PvP. In that case, if something is overpowered in PvP, it disrupts the difficulty in PvE.

PvP never introduced chaos in the game. Take it from me, somebody who does PvP. If I lose against an opponent in PvP, I don't get any more frustrated than when somebody ruins my kill setup while questing. There has always been those people who troll you and join your match and flee, those trolls that mess up your setup, and even people who try to order you around and tell you what to do. Those were all there far before PvP was added to the game.

To answer your question, I play because PvP is a very interesting and fun aspect of the game. I don't mind when people start getting mad at me for winning, it just means I did a good job. What annoys me though, is because I'm a Warlord, people accuse me of being rude and ignorant. PvE players are trying to build a separation between PvP and PvE, not the other way around. I don't see PvP players complaining about a boss being too hard, and I'm sure if PvP players didn't shout out to KingsIsle what's overpowered or not, PvE would be as easy as counting to 10.
"hen do you need to waste turns or pips to use Infections, Entangles, Doom and Gloom, minions, Shatter, Stun Blocks, etc. in PvE?"

This bit:

Infection: Life bosses and healing mobs
Entangle: Life bosses
Doom and Gloom: Life bosses and minions
Shatter: Balance bosses that shield often
Stun Block: Mobs and bosses beginning in Wintertusk that stun -- Ice, Myth, Storm

I solo a great deal of the Spiral, and I use those spells often, regardless of whether I'm playing Life, Fire, Balance, Death, Life/Fire hybrid, Storm/Life hybrid, Myth.

PvP is not the main draw of Wizard101, never has been, nor is it the great balancing mechanism for game play.

The mindset that goes into the sorts of arguments you present, King, are exactly those that further divide the community.

Warmest Regards,

Iridian and the Spiral Coven