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balance is overpowered

AuthorMessage
Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
Eric Stormbringer on Mar 20, 2014 wrote:
Balance is far from unstoppable in PvP. While it does gain the most direct benefit from shadow shrike, this does not mean that either shrike or the balance school are overpowered.
Eric really says it all in the above posting, Balance is clearly not overpowered, even when
played well. Shrike favors all schools that have solid hits, especially Storm and Fire.
It's a giant leap for Death, no matter what why you look at it, plus playing form second.

All the comments about Balance being at the top for Level 95 have been disproven, no
question about it, so this incorrect information can stop.

Balance is clearly not overpowered, when a storm can stand there and kill him/her
in three hits. Balance is clearly not overpowered when they can be stunned, and
then stunned, and then stunned again and taken out.

Balance clearly not overpowered when you watch a hard hitting ice or hard hitting
fire go after them from first. Whether your in the top 1% of the arc, or at the middle,
or bottom. Even from first, Balance is not a powerhouse, but it uses tactical moves to
win most of the time.

I also wish to counter the comment "it does gain the most direct benefit from shadow".
As anyone knows, a shield and a weakness is going to be used against Balance.
Fire has efreet, Myth has it's delay in stuns, Ice has it's stuns, Life has it's Luminous
weaver, death has it's bad juju, and the list goes on and on.
Does it give Balance a slight edge with it's weaker hits, maybe and but only slightly.

Read his line,,, "Balance is far from unstoppable in pvp", no truer words ever spoken.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
stormninja542 on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Also, I don't care if you "went through mana burn, loremaster, and supernova and explained why they are underpowered." I don't care if you are a balance speaking from "experience." Supernova pretty much prevents and scares your opponent into not using their auras in pvp. Mana burn prevents your opponent from building pips if the balance is a mana burn spammer. Loremaster does more damage (excluding storm) and its special effects are better than the 4-pip spells of the other schools. Though loremaster does less damage than kracken, it's special effects make it a better spell overall than kracken. Since, for the second time now, you have given me a scenario in PVE about how the spells are useless not only convinces me that they are still op in PVP, but also convinces me that you have no clue what so ever as to what happens when someone vs a max lvl balance.
Ok, his are from PVE, mine will be from PVP.

Mana Burn, it takes three pips (not four as someone stated), and uses 5 pips (or three power pips).
It does minimal damage, and is only a delay tactic, that is it. If you are first and use Mana Burn, if
they are attacking or healing, they still get to use their pips. If you are second, and they use
their pips, you get nothing, no damage and lose your 5 pips. Mana Burn is situational,
and most of the time I ending up discarding mine in favor of a sure thing for damage.
Spamming Mana Burn is not possible, it uses 3 Power Pips, and only delays pips,
while blades can still be stacked. That is if the person you are facing is not using them
as they show up.

Super Nova, when do you get to use it, almost never unless in the lower ranks.
As soon as my Ice sees a Balance, all aura's get discarded, and that is like everyone
else that knows what they are doing. Taking the chance to put one up is not the smartest
idea.

LoreMaster, a good spell, can do reasonable damage for the number of pips, and has two
side effects. Not unlike Luminous Weaver in it's own way, as Weaver has a 25% weakness.
I seldom see the -35 Accuracy do anything, my best bet is against a storm, the weakness
does help. I finally got this spell on my Balance, but it took me months, and I was doing 20
battles a night. Finally I gave up and spent all of my crowns to get it, that is the only way
I could get it. Loremaster is not something you can craft, like all the other spells, and it's
drop rate is got to be very very rare.

Overall, I would be much happier with Luminous Weaver as a Balance spell, as LoreMaster
isn't that much better, if it is better.

Overall, the person that thinks that these spells are overpowered, isn't using their school correctly.
Or has their deck setup incorrectly, imo.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
PvP King on Apr 5, 2014 wrote:
"Mana Burn spammers", man, this is becoming my favorite word. Spamming Mana Burn? I've never seen it happen, no matter what ranks I've done PvP at. Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Veteran, Knight, Captain, Commander, Warlord, Overlord, I just haven't seen it. For some strange reason apparently, I never see Balance wizards gaining 5 pips per turn. Hmm, I wonder why...

I'm 100% sure that all wizards carry small attack spells, even Jades and you don't know it. Jades, the pip stackers, use small spells to weaken the opponent, dispel the opponent, change the bubble, heal, kill of minions, shake off Weaknesses, remove blades from opponents, remove opponents' shields. There's absolutely nobody that doesn't have low pip spells in their deck. In PvP, you're always doing something. Most of the time that "something" costs pips (Weakening your opponent with small attacks, healing, using global spells, casting minions, etc). Balance makes you play a better strategy, and to be honest, you're going to be at your best vs a Balance wizard. Why? Because their spells force you to make the right move. Mana Burn forces you to do something with your pips, either casting minions, attacking, or whatever. If you don't use any small spells in your deck, then you might want to revise it. Even then, Mana Burn is too risky from second and Judgement would be doing far more damage per pip from first than Mana Burn ever could.

I don't use Pierce because I already have Shatter, but I do use Cleanse Charm. If I have a 90% Weakness on me from Efreet or Bad Juju, I want to take it off. So in reality, I already keep those spells in my deck. (Efreet forced wizards to change wands just as bad as Mana Burn forced wizards to use small attacks, if you had your own school wand with great stats, you'd have to change to a lower stat wand with a different school attack just to save your blades, Fire is a lot more "overpowered" than Balance is)

I don't exactly need Pierce to remove shields, and making a Balance wizard take like 50 turns to blade is the worst move ever. Unlike Balance, other schools can keep their blades and attack right after they wand off whatever was on them, but for Balance, they have to use 2 spells just to take something off. Wow, great way to say Balance has blades. I'm totally going to say Balance is overpowered now.

Balance still isn't overpowered or caught up with the other schools yet. Okay, we have health, decent damage, 3 great spells, but that doesn't mean we're perfect. 2 of those 3 great spells are situational, making Balance only have one great spell they can use whenever they want. Other schools, however, have 3+ great spells that aren't situational and have at least 2 others that are. So that leaves Balance with Loremaster, one great spell. It doesn't win you anything, it doesn't fully defend you, it doesn't heal you, it doesn't make your opponent struggle just to take your health down. It's like Power Nova, but for 1v1.
LOL are you trying to prove to me you are so ignorant? Are you seriously going to bring jades into this? I mean seriously, jades are pretty much EXTINCT in 1v1, where have you been? I have told you like what, 3 times now, that people don't LOAD low pip spells in their deck. What part or letter of the word LOAD do you struggle to understand? Even with low pip spells it's hard to kill a balance with only low pip spells since they have high health and good heals. Efreet did not cause people to change wands, you have clearly just stated to me that people use cleanse charm. Anyway, everyone ALWAYS used off school wand casts to get rid of weaknesses (a balance spell), not because of efreet. First, you mention you use cleanse to remove weaknesses then you talk about how you can't blade up, why don't you make up your mind? A balance taking 50 turns to blade is for from reality. Half that many turns or a quarter is still ridiculously far from reality. Balance has a TON of useful spells which you are too clueless to understand. You think everything about balance is bad and it's not. The only half decent reason for you complaining that balance is underpowered is the issue they have with blades. All schools have their problems so GET OVER IT. Stop whining about one flaw with balance. You have complained about nothing but balance's struggle with blades and shields though you already have a solution to it just as many other balances do. You're argument is pointless and you are obviously greedy for balance to achieve more power than they need.

Survivor
Feb 23, 2011
13
PvP King on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
Myth and Fire don't need as much health as Balance for many reasons. One, their spells deal a lot more damage per pip (Excluding Supernova and Loremaster, but their high pip spells are usually game winners), two they can blade stack a lot better than Balance can, three because they have 70% shields for free, and four because their resist is slightly higher than the other schools except Ice. Balance has less damage per pip from their higher rank spells, forcing them to use a strategy where they have to use small spells such as Loremaster or Scorpion. Fire and Myth however, can use both small spells and big spells, but their bigger spells have often game changing effects.

Like I said before, just because they can't use auras it doesn't mean it's the end of the world for them. Balance's "blade" is Infallible, while other school's blades are actually blades. Also, the other schools still have global spells that usually let them take advantage of the match, and don't even bring up Power Play, it's just about the most useless spell in the entire game, for all forms of PvP and PvE.

If you fizzle a Loremaster, you won't exactly "lose your tempo". One fizzle can be a game ending consequence, I have to admit, but unlike Balance, if the others schools fizzle, they can use their higher rank spell which does a whole lot more damage than using a spell of half its pips twice. For Balance, Spectral Blast does almost as much as Ra, 2 Savage Paws do as much as Sabertooth, 2 Spectral Blasts/Loremasters do as much as Chimera, etc. However for Myth and Fire, Sun Serpent/Celestial Calendar do more than 2 Phoenixes/Minotaurs, so for them, a fizzle isn't always what calls the gg. Even then, the pet could shake off the Black Mantle with a pet heal or something (Because Loremaster deals damage, puts a Weakness, and puts a Black Mantle, pets usually cast after those 3 things) so the Black Mantle is almost never a problem, and even then, it's only -35%, so the chance of the spell working is still pretty high, and Loremaster isn't used 24/7 in a PvP match, so then again the other schools hardly have a fizzle chance against a Balance wizard. Even if the schools don't get accuracy from their Hades Gear, they can get (School name)-Sniper, which gives 9-10% accuracy to the school, which is honestly great. With the crafted boots, that's 13-14%, so Fire only has a 16-17% chance of fizzling (Roughly the same as Balance and Death), and Myth has only a 7-8% chance of fizzling, roughly Life's accuracy.
This is a mere rhetoric. In the real pvp game balance has all the tools to dominate.

Survivor
Feb 23, 2011
13
stormninja542 on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Also, I don't care if you "went through mana burn, loremaster, and supernova and explained why they are underpowered." I don't care if you are a balance speaking from "experience." Supernova pretty much prevents and scares your opponent into not using their auras in pvp. Mana burn prevents your opponent from building pips if the balance is a mana burn spammer. Loremaster does more damage (excluding storm) and its special effects are better than the 4-pip spells of the other schools. Though loremaster does less damage than kracken, it's special effects make it a better spell overall than kracken. Since, for the second time now, you have given me a scenario in PVE about how the spells are useless not only convinces me that they are still op in PVP, but also convinces me that you have no clue what so ever as to what happens when someone vs a max lvl balance.
I highly agree with you. They haven't stated that loremaster also leaves weakness, and accuracy debuff. Which if enchanted as tc and regular spells these debuffs actually stack. Then, compare loremaster to brimstone revenant, they don't go far different in terms of damage once enchanted, eh?

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
pindot77 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
I highly agree with you. They haven't stated that loremaster also leaves weakness, and accuracy debuff. Which if enchanted as tc and regular spells these debuffs actually stack. Then, compare loremaster to brimstone revenant, they don't go far different in terms of damage once enchanted, eh?
Pindot77,

As many are doing in this discussion, they are pointing out one fact, and saying this
makes it so. Come on guys, you have to look at all the facts of a Wizard, not just
one spell.
Overall, Life has the best gear in the game, plus Luminous Weaver is craftable,
but they seem to be doing fairly poorly on the boards.

Fire and Storm don't need tricky spells, as you cannot outheal them once they
get setup and start doing damage from first.

Death can be an extreme danger in PvP, if they are first, but I see in
second they can have issue.

Balance has never had High damage from day one, it's has to relay on the fact
that they have multiple angles to attack. Pure Balance players only have
one shield to remove, but hey, they don't have fie elf, Posion, frostbite, high
damage storm bats, etc.

When you say LoreMaster has a -20 weakness and it stacks, that's at a cost.
Weakness (at -25) cost nothing, but what about Bad juju at -90, what
about efreet at -90. You can compare spells all day, but you need to add
in all the other spells, plus the gear that is available to the Wizard.
I think this is where it all even's out, maybe except for Storm.
The point here is, Balance is a good school for PvP, but it's spells are no
better than Fires, Myth, or Death's. It cannot touch Storm, who I do believe
is a complete Power house, and clearly the only wizard that is over powered in
the game.

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
pindot77 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
This is a mere rhetoric. In the real pvp game balance has all the tools to dominate.
It has all the tools to dominate a player that doesn't know what their doing, I will agree.
Experience is the key, but lets put both Wizards on the same skill level.

Let's say a fire and a Balance, pushing in a Myth would be unfair.

Fire has Link and Fire Elf, plus Power Link, to remove multiple shields for a solid hit.
Balance has a 2 pip hit, called Scropion, to remove one (1) shield.

Fire had a local Aura and a Gobal Aura.
Balance has a local Aura, but can remove and damage the fires local Aura.
(The fire will use the Gobal and not the local, taking out the option for Super nova).
Balance has no way to remove the Gobal, so they have to accept the increase
in damage for the duration. Balance using their Gobal is a sure lost in most cases,
as it cost 4 pips.

Mana burn does 80 per pip damage, and may be a complete waste if the pips are used.
Is mana burn a great spell, yes, but it can also cause no damage and make you lose the
match if used at the incorrect time. Guessing with Mana Burn becomes a dangerous
chance, and sometimes a decsion to not use it is better than using it.

Let's see, that pretty much leaves Judge, but Heck Hound hits for 30 per pip more.

So, for many, the Grass is always greener on the other side, until they actually get
to the other side. Then it never seems as green as they thought it was.

Survivor
Feb 23, 2011
13
IcicleWar on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
It has all the tools to dominate a player that doesn't know what their doing, I will agree.
Experience is the key, but lets put both Wizards on the same skill level.

Let's say a fire and a Balance, pushing in a Myth would be unfair.

Fire has Link and Fire Elf, plus Power Link, to remove multiple shields for a solid hit.
Balance has a 2 pip hit, called Scropion, to remove one (1) shield.

Fire had a local Aura and a Gobal Aura.
Balance has a local Aura, but can remove and damage the fires local Aura.
(The fire will use the Gobal and not the local, taking out the option for Super nova).
Balance has no way to remove the Gobal, so they have to accept the increase
in damage for the duration. Balance using their Gobal is a sure lost in most cases,
as it cost 4 pips.

Mana burn does 80 per pip damage, and may be a complete waste if the pips are used.
Is mana burn a great spell, yes, but it can also cause no damage and make you lose the
match if used at the incorrect time. Guessing with Mana Burn becomes a dangerous
chance, and sometimes a decsion to not use it is better than using it.

Let's see, that pretty much leaves Judge, but Heck Hound hits for 30 per pip more.

So, for many, the Grass is always greener on the other side, until they actually get
to the other side. Then it never seems as green as they thought it was.
Then tell me, what school can build pips against balance without the thought of being mana burned to set up a combo of big hit and low pip spell, nada. All schools rely on low pip spell against balance. Now, tell me what low pip spell can counter loremaster (spamming)- damage-rate- per se, except that of storm? Nada. How much heals do balance get everytime it critical (which is oftentimes happening) even with infection on? A litany of questions will fill this thread only to show that balance will always dominate no matter what.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
stormninja542 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
LOL are you trying to prove to me you are so ignorant? Are you seriously going to bring jades into this? I mean seriously, jades are pretty much EXTINCT in 1v1, where have you been? I have told you like what, 3 times now, that people don't LOAD low pip spells in their deck. What part or letter of the word LOAD do you struggle to understand? Even with low pip spells it's hard to kill a balance with only low pip spells since they have high health and good heals. Efreet did not cause people to change wands, you have clearly just stated to me that people use cleanse charm. Anyway, everyone ALWAYS used off school wand casts to get rid of weaknesses (a balance spell), not because of efreet. First, you mention you use cleanse to remove weaknesses then you talk about how you can't blade up, why don't you make up your mind? A balance taking 50 turns to blade is for from reality. Half that many turns or a quarter is still ridiculously far from reality. Balance has a TON of useful spells which you are too clueless to understand. You think everything about balance is bad and it's not. The only half decent reason for you complaining that balance is underpowered is the issue they have with blades. All schools have their problems so GET OVER IT. Stop whining about one flaw with balance. You have complained about nothing but balance's struggle with blades and shields though you already have a solution to it just as many other balances do. You're argument is pointless and you are obviously greedy for balance to achieve more power than they need.
Lol, you clearly don't get my point at all. Who doesn't keep low pip spells in their decks? PvE wizards? Maybe even some starters in PvP.. Who knows, but I don't think anybody in all of the game at ranks 600 or higher only keeps high pip spells in their deck. Everybody loads low pip spells (Even Privates do), and I've given you examples already. Elemental/Spirit Blade keep your pips the same, Satyr is 4 pips, and there are many Warlords who use minions these days, keeping their pips low the way they were. Mana Burn, however, gets the Balance wizard nowhere. How can you not understand that? Oh oops, I used 3 pips to burn somebody else's 3 pips, I see the unfairness in that. Yeah nice try.

Why would Balance use Cleanse Charm on shields? Lol, Weakness isn't the only spell that stops Balance, shields do too. So you think Cleanse charm can solve all of Balance's blading problems making them avoid shields and have nice 35% blades, yeah right.

Yeah, Balance does have useful spells, but they're not overpowered like you keep daydreaming they are. Availing Hands? It heals the same as Satyr but slower, I don't see the problem in that at all. Loremaster, uh oh, that -20% damage on the Balance? Yeah because a Balance wizard can totally rely on a 20% Weakness alone, I've even tested that little theory of only using Loremaster for you with max Reshuffle TC and got owned pretty quick by a Life wizard. Yeah, not the best spell.

I'm not complaining about Balance, LOL! That's funny. I'm stating facts about how Balance isn't overpowered and what's keeping it from not being overpowered, unlike you who takes everything as a complaint against one school. Oh, I said Loremaster is a great spell but not overpowered, guess I'm complaining huh?

Yeah, I have been pointing out the fact that Balance can't blade for a reason. It's what's keeping us from being overpowered. If we had the ability to shake off Weaknesses and shields in one turn like other schools do while keeping blades and were also given a damage over time, then Balance would truly be overpowered. Right now, it's not. Why? Because Balance can't take off shields. Why do you think Shrike is complained about so much? Oh yeah, I forgot, because hitting on a -0% shield is overpowered. Hitting on a -50%, however, like Balance usually does unless the opponent is more of an offense type player, is not. Get the difference now? Or are you still too stubborn to leave that annoying little theory of "Uh oh I'm fighting a Balance, might as well beg for mercy, I'm done."?

Did you know that casting a minion lets you build pips because the Balance wizard would go for it? Or that Black Mantle makes Balance wizards fizzle? Did you think about using Infection for Availing Hands? Tower Shield when the Balance uses Infallible? Use low pip spells when the opponent shields? Keeping your pips fairly low unless you're going for a OHKO? These are the most basic things you learn in PvP, and yet everybody complains about it.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
Here's a recap that can hopefully change people's minds of Balance being overpowered.
1. Supernova isn't an issue as you can discard the aura. Even if the Balance wizard uses Infallible and you're at an aura disadvantage, other schools have their global spells ranging from 25-35% extra damage.
2. Other schools can wipe out Weaknesses and Shields without ruining one of their own blade setups. This is why Balance wizards don't use blades in the first place, not because they don't need them.
3. Availing Hands is a great spell, but Satyr heals the same for an immediate cause.
4. Mana Burn simply cannot be "spammed" at 5 pips. If you save pips, fix your deck and add smaller spells, you can't expect to even get half way to Corporal if your only spells are ranks 8+.
5. Balance lost its one-of-a-kind ability of high power pip chance.
6. Supernova and Mana Burn are both situational, both can be a complete waste of a turn or even more dangerous, a waste of 5 pips from second.
7. Because of Balance's incapability of taking off shields, using low rank spells for Balance is a must. That makes Balance wizards even less capable of a OHKO.
8. Loremaster does fair damage and puts 2 debuffs on the opponent. It takes months or even a year to farm for, and the Black Mantle itself never works. The Weakness however may end up saving the Balance wizard's life, but it isn't reliable.
9. Simple to say Balance does the 5th least damage.
10. Balance has had the worst spells up to level 70. 80 finally put Balance up there.
11. Balance is a very hard school to play, it takes much more work to become good at PvP on a Balance wizard than it does any other school, as a lot of deck work and farming, farming (and did I mention farming?) is needed.
12. Balance is great, but not good enough to keep up with the "high damage trend" without farming for half decent spells.
13. Most schools just spam their overpowered spells, Mana Burn is useless.
14. Just no. No.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
pindot77 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
I highly agree with you. They haven't stated that loremaster also leaves weakness, and accuracy debuff. Which if enchanted as tc and regular spells these debuffs actually stack. Then, compare loremaster to brimstone revenant, they don't go far different in terms of damage once enchanted, eh?
Exactly, but pvp king and saber are too ignorant to even know loremaster is op.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
IcicleWar on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Pindot77,

As many are doing in this discussion, they are pointing out one fact, and saying this
makes it so. Come on guys, you have to look at all the facts of a Wizard, not just
one spell.
Overall, Life has the best gear in the game, plus Luminous Weaver is craftable,
but they seem to be doing fairly poorly on the boards.

Fire and Storm don't need tricky spells, as you cannot outheal them once they
get setup and start doing damage from first.

Death can be an extreme danger in PvP, if they are first, but I see in
second they can have issue.

Balance has never had High damage from day one, it's has to relay on the fact
that they have multiple angles to attack. Pure Balance players only have
one shield to remove, but hey, they don't have fie elf, Posion, frostbite, high
damage storm bats, etc.

When you say LoreMaster has a -20 weakness and it stacks, that's at a cost.
Weakness (at -25) cost nothing, but what about Bad juju at -90, what
about efreet at -90. You can compare spells all day, but you need to add
in all the other spells, plus the gear that is available to the Wizard.
I think this is where it all even's out, maybe except for Storm.
The point here is, Balance is a good school for PvP, but it's spells are no
better than Fires, Myth, or Death's. It cannot touch Storm, who I do believe
is a complete Power house, and clearly the only wizard that is over powered in
the game.
You act as though the black mantle and weakness is USELESS. Your horrible way of thinking is irritating. Balance has always been hard hitters and they hit even harder with hades' gear, loremaster, and savage paw. Balance has some of the best hades' gear out of the schools. It has everything balance needs to be successful in pvp. Balance is far from underpowered. You act as the special effects of your spells are useless. If efreet had its curse removed It wouldn't be useful in most cases. You are simply throwing around pointless junk left and right.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
master of the sabe... on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Lol, do you even read my posts? I never said that mana burn is the same as supernova. Btw nobody is going to spend all those training points on one 2 pip spell that will only amount to 85% percent when the highest enchant is used. Lol, going through all that just for mana burn and supernova gave me a good chuckle.
Try reading your post again because you did.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
master of the sabe... on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Re-read your facts. Mana burn is about taking away pips, the damage is just a nice bonus. Btw, just making sure you know, not every battle is against balance. But when you do go against balance, you can tower shield, stun, use tc, whatever you like. If you can't counter, that's you're problem. People aren't going to use a bunch of training points just to enchant a 2 pip spell. Also, the highest accuracy enchant offers 25%, only enough to give supernova 85% accuracy, still only so-so accuracy. Loremaster, as I stated, is only variable and requires days of work. Your 2 "balances" aren't even high enough level to get most of these spells. So yeah, no experience with these spells. You thought wrong.
Wolf RavenBreath 95 balance
For one thing, this is in the pvp section of the forums, so it is obviously meant to be about pvp. Mana burn would be worth nothing if it didn't do damage. For your information, my level 61 death warlord beat a level 92 balance commander, so it's fairly obvious I know how to hold my own against balance. You don't need to spend training points for accuracy enchants, you can just buy treasure cards and enchant supernovas. I think the treasure cards give better stats anyway, and you can have supernova ready whenever you need it. Also, aren't all of balance's spells 85% accuracy? 85% is pretty good accuracy, in my opinion. Loremaster is a great spell. It may require farming (I have been farming for months and have not gotten it) but if and when I do, it will be worth it. My balance level 50 cannot train the spells, but I do often use an amulet that gives mana burn. It is extremely useful; I sometimes do thousands of damage with it. I may not have supernova, but I do have plenty of experience battling it. Again, I find most of the things in your post to be incorrect. As for other posts with mana burn spamming, it depends entirely on what your definition of spamming a spell is. As for my definition, it means using a spell most or all of the time in a certain circumstance (such as the opponent getting a few pips). By my definition, using mana burn every third-fourth turn fits as spam. As for balance being overpowered, I have had a much easier time pvping on my balances than I have had on any other characters. It's pretty easy to start a balance and get to warlord with the right gear. The only real disadvantage balance has is not having any DoTs, and that can easily be countered by using fire elves. Blades are not needed to do large amounts of damage. Balance has many spells that are utility and attacks at the same time, thus being extremely efficient. I don't know how anyone thinks balance is underpowered, but they can have their own opinions. This is mine.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
master of the sabe... on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
You don't care? Isn't that the whole reason of this post? If you don't understand the premise of a post, don't post. Again, mana burn doesn't even stop you're opponent from attacking if the attack is placed on the same turn. I never use mana burns in pvp. never. Again, go back to accuracy, and if you think about it, supernova is barely worth it. Your forgetting that mana burn costs 5 pips itself. It is virtually a loss for the spammer if they choose to spam mana burn. Eventually they will realize they can attack at the same turn as mana burn and still do damage. "Loremaster" needs to be farmed. Not crafted. Farmed. For hours. Days. Weeks. Maybe even months. Kraken can be easily bought with training points. Idk about you, but i'm not comfortable spending weeks farming for a 4-pip spell. If you're so bummed about spamming loremaster, farm for it yourself. Don't go complaining and whining to other player why it should be nerfed. Just get it yourself. Again, apparently you are comfortable with spending countless hours farming for a spell. Excuse me, but in your next post give me your definition for PvE. Again, if you cannot accept the fact that balance is totally underpowered, just quit the game while you're at it. I am a level 95 balance wizard, and I can prove it. Would you like a screen shot? pretty easy.
Btw you still haven't answered my question: have you played through at least a little of the balance school? I'm doubting it.
Wolf RavenBreath 95 balance
Yes I have played balance. My sister has a balance that I play on occasionally and I have seen balance played by many others. I am not forgetting that mana burn costs 5 pips but you are forgetting the amount of damage and pips mana burn can take. Loremaster is loremaster, it is an op spell that can be earned and used for balance school. How about brimstone revenant. It's just as hard to earn from loremaster and difficult to craft and anyone with some brains would know loremaster is a better spell even though they're the same pip cost and fire spells are supposed to be stronger. I don't need to give you a post about balance in PVE since this is PVP which you are obviously still struggling to understand. Just because you have no clue on how to use mana burn doesn't make it useless or underpowered. Those who actually know how to use it are op with it (I'll assume you are an easy balance with no clue how to use balance's spell affectively).

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
Veracity8 on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Ok, his are from PVE, mine will be from PVP.

Mana Burn, it takes three pips (not four as someone stated), and uses 5 pips (or three power pips).
It does minimal damage, and is only a delay tactic, that is it. If you are first and use Mana Burn, if
they are attacking or healing, they still get to use their pips. If you are second, and they use
their pips, you get nothing, no damage and lose your 5 pips. Mana Burn is situational,
and most of the time I ending up discarding mine in favor of a sure thing for damage.
Spamming Mana Burn is not possible, it uses 3 Power Pips, and only delays pips,
while blades can still be stacked. That is if the person you are facing is not using them
as they show up.

Super Nova, when do you get to use it, almost never unless in the lower ranks.
As soon as my Ice sees a Balance, all aura's get discarded, and that is like everyone
else that knows what they are doing. Taking the chance to put one up is not the smartest
idea.

LoreMaster, a good spell, can do reasonable damage for the number of pips, and has two
side effects. Not unlike Luminous Weaver in it's own way, as Weaver has a 25% weakness.
I seldom see the -35 Accuracy do anything, my best bet is against a storm, the weakness
does help. I finally got this spell on my Balance, but it took me months, and I was doing 20
battles a night. Finally I gave up and spent all of my crowns to get it, that is the only way
I could get it. Loremaster is not something you can craft, like all the other spells, and it's
drop rate is got to be very very rare.

Overall, I would be much happier with Luminous Weaver as a Balance spell, as LoreMaster
isn't that much better, if it is better.

Overall, the person that thinks that these spells are overpowered, isn't using their school correctly.
Or has their deck setup incorrectly, imo.
Mana burn can remove up to 2 or 3 power pips and does 80 damage per pip. If your opponent has a ton of pips, that damage is no where near minimal damage, it's deadly and takes away pips. You can spam it every few rounds and it's effective to spam it every few rounds since your opponent's pips go down too and take damage at the same time. Even if you don't load supernova in you deck, you opponent, knowing you're balance, will be too scared to even attempt to use auras. Loremaster deals more damage, and has 2 side effects while luminous weaver only has one. Loremaster is clearly a better spell even if its weakness is 5% weaker. These spells are simply creating a major problem in pvp. Forcing people to make ridiculous deck changes and even changing their pets. This is a major problem that I am simply trying to get across.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
IcicleWar on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
It has all the tools to dominate a player that doesn't know what their doing, I will agree.
Experience is the key, but lets put both Wizards on the same skill level.

Let's say a fire and a Balance, pushing in a Myth would be unfair.

Fire has Link and Fire Elf, plus Power Link, to remove multiple shields for a solid hit.
Balance has a 2 pip hit, called Scropion, to remove one (1) shield.

Fire had a local Aura and a Gobal Aura.
Balance has a local Aura, but can remove and damage the fires local Aura.
(The fire will use the Gobal and not the local, taking out the option for Super nova).
Balance has no way to remove the Gobal, so they have to accept the increase
in damage for the duration. Balance using their Gobal is a sure lost in most cases,
as it cost 4 pips.

Mana burn does 80 per pip damage, and may be a complete waste if the pips are used.
Is mana burn a great spell, yes, but it can also cause no damage and make you lose the
match if used at the incorrect time. Guessing with Mana Burn becomes a dangerous
chance, and sometimes a decsion to not use it is better than using it.

Let's see, that pretty much leaves Judge, but Heck Hound hits for 30 per pip more.

So, for many, the Grass is always greener on the other side, until they actually get
to the other side. Then it never seems as green as they thought it was.
I don't know about you, but 70% of fire who vs balance lose in the matches I see. Most balances carry doom so they don't have to worry about their opponent's auras and they can prevent them from getting a good heal. After using doom they just continue to spam loremaster and savage paw, some of the most powerful spells in the game for their pip cost. Hound deals more damage than judge but judge is a direct hit that you don't have to wait 3 rounds to complete the attack. Balance only has to deal with tower shield which can easily be pierced by shrike. Since tower shield only protects you from 50% of an attack, base armor pierce and infallible can cut the tower shield very low. Only skill less balances would believe balance is underpowered for they lack the ability to use balance's power properly.

Survivor
Sep 18, 2010
13
Survivor
Jul 30, 2011
48
IcicleWar on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
It has all the tools to dominate a player that doesn't know what their doing, I will agree.
Experience is the key, but lets put both Wizards on the same skill level.

Let's say a fire and a Balance, pushing in a Myth would be unfair.

Fire has Link and Fire Elf, plus Power Link, to remove multiple shields for a solid hit.
Balance has a 2 pip hit, called Scropion, to remove one (1) shield.

Fire had a local Aura and a Gobal Aura.
Balance has a local Aura, but can remove and damage the fires local Aura.
(The fire will use the Gobal and not the local, taking out the option for Super nova).
Balance has no way to remove the Gobal, so they have to accept the increase
in damage for the duration. Balance using their Gobal is a sure lost in most cases,
as it cost 4 pips.

Mana burn does 80 per pip damage, and may be a complete waste if the pips are used.
Is mana burn a great spell, yes, but it can also cause no damage and make you lose the
match if used at the incorrect time. Guessing with Mana Burn becomes a dangerous
chance, and sometimes a decsion to not use it is better than using it.

Let's see, that pretty much leaves Judge, but Heck Hound hits for 30 per pip more.

So, for many, the Grass is always greener on the other side, until they actually get
to the other side. Then it never seems as green as they thought it was.
"It has all the tools to dominate a player that doesn't know what their doing, I will agree."

That is exactly why they are so good at PvP until they get past rank 1000 they will usually win about 70% of the time because their opponents do not know how to beat balance. This is also why the top ranked PvP players at level 90-95 are mostly storm because they are best equipped to deal with balances.They don't need many pips to kill don't have to use an aura, don't need to be bothered too much by weakness or tri- shield. Balance is easy to beat if you know how to just like any other school except reality is most people do not have the experience to defeat balance consistently.

Please pay attention to how things actually work instead of how they could work. Look around you & at the leaderboard. You will see far more balance wizards than any other school except storm and at the top there are fewer and fewer as you go up the ranks past 1000. Go try to step in another schools shoes that isn't balance or storm and fight your balances, perhaps then you will begin to see as other schools do. The fact that the people that are defending balances heavily are balance and that says something about the situation. the phrase "once a [balance] always a [balance]" works well here.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
PvP King on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Helm of the Unknown Tartarus (Myth) gives 11% resist, which is 2% more than the average schools, and only 1% less than Ice. The robes however, do give 12% resist to all schools, but if the wizard chooses to use the Teeth of the Lord's Night and the Hades boots, Myth would be 3% resist ahead of everybody and Fire would be 1%. Again, I said their resist is slightly higher, but it does count. Also, the Waterworks gear, just in case the wizards didn't have Hades, give Fire and Myth more resist than Balance, giving them another slight resist advantage. The other thing to add to it, is that Fire gets more armor piercing than Balance if they choose the Hades offensive set, which most do, and the resist separation is yet again wider. When Aquila didn't come out, Balance, Life and Death had to sacrifice massive amounts of power pip chance (Dropped to approximately 68%), lost damage, gained a little bit of accuracy, for critical. They didn't complain about it. Power pip chance was the stat that kept Balance Life and Death in line with the other schools (As you can tell, their best spells usually have an even number of pips and the ones with odd numbers are hardly used) and they left it for some critical rating and accuracy. For the other schools, they had to sacrifice almost nothing, and their stats actually went up. I don't see the difference between Balance, Life and Death sacrificing their favorite stat for accuracy and for Fire, Storm, Myth and Ice sacrificing some accuracy for great power pip chance. You can't have everything, and if you don't like the thought of dropping accuracy for power pip chance then stick with crafted gear. The only thing you lose is critical and armor piercing, 2 stats you can make up for easily (Especially with the next update coming up).

Even though Fairy Friend's cast rate got lowered, I still see it casting more than Spritely and Unicorn combined. Even when it does heal, which it does a lot, it heals for at least 700 for most people. Better than Spritely, Unicorn, or any other healing talent.

Your theory on it casting only from damage is incorrect. I've used Infection hundreds of times just for the pet to take it off the turn I casted it.

I mentioned the Sniper talent for a reason. Balance, Life and Death don't need accuracy. However, the other schools do. There's a difference between school pets you know, Storms usually going for offensive pets, Fire Death Balance and Myth staying in between, and Ice and Life going for defensive/healing pets (sometimes Balance too). You could easily sacrifice a talent you don't need for (school name)-sniper, and don't go saying "why should I get a pet talent for accuracy and Balance shouldn't?". Because Balance is a different school and needs different talents. Balance wizards usually need immediate healing talents on their pets such as Fairy Friend or Unicorn because Availing Hands doesn't heal perfect right away.
Wait, let me get this straight you are telling me that a 1-3% resist difference is relevant when at the same time you tried to convince me that a 600->1000 health buffer(approximately 10-20% difference) is insignificant? If you are wearing the waterworks gear(the complete set) in high level PvP, you are in the wrong era of PvP. You don't see the difference for the lowest accuracy schools(the elementals) dropping even more accuracy and the highest accuracy school gaining some? I went ahead and checked the gear, using the full offensive set and assuming alpha/titan rings and athame balance is sitting at 94% accuracy and 96% power pips, defensive set it is sitting at 86% accuracy and 97% power pips. Fire using the offensive and assuming alpha/titan set is sitting at 88% accuracy and 92% power pips. Fire using the defensive set is sitting at 78% accuracy and 92% power pips. So balance has a higher power pip chance and accuracy than fire with both of those sets and they made a great sacrifice? There is a disconnect here. I agree with you that fairy's heal is a major impact when it occurs, however it's cast rate does not occur often enough or reliably enough to counter loremaster's and it has been specifically adjusted to cast at spritely's rate. If balance doesn't need to spend a talent slot on accuracy that is an advantage to the school, not a disadvantage. As for the triggers for pet healing talents that has been tested time and time again, only hits trigger it. The reason non-hit spells seem to trigger it is often because hits have occurred or are occurring during the round that triggered the heal but it activated immediately after you placed an infection.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
Veracity8 on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
Eric really says it all in the above posting, Balance is clearly not overpowered, even when
played well. Shrike favors all schools that have solid hits, especially Storm and Fire.
It's a giant leap for Death, no matter what why you look at it, plus playing form second.

All the comments about Balance being at the top for Level 95 have been disproven, no
question about it, so this incorrect information can stop.

Balance is clearly not overpowered, when a storm can stand there and kill him/her
in three hits. Balance is clearly not overpowered when they can be stunned, and
then stunned, and then stunned again and taken out.

Balance clearly not overpowered when you watch a hard hitting ice or hard hitting
fire go after them from first. Whether your in the top 1% of the arc, or at the middle,
or bottom. Even from first, Balance is not a powerhouse, but it uses tactical moves to
win most of the time.

I also wish to counter the comment "it does gain the most direct benefit from shadow".
As anyone knows, a shield and a weakness is going to be used against Balance.
Fire has efreet, Myth has it's delay in stuns, Ice has it's stuns, Life has it's Luminous
weaver, death has it's bad juju, and the list goes on and on.
Does it give Balance a slight edge with it's weaker hits, maybe and but only slightly.

Read his line,,, "Balance is far from unstoppable in pvp", no truer words ever spoken.
I agree that balance is not overpowered however it is a top tier school for this meta as I have went through in my previous posts.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
IcicleWar on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Pindot77,

As many are doing in this discussion, they are pointing out one fact, and saying this
makes it so. Come on guys, you have to look at all the facts of a Wizard, not just
one spell.
Overall, Life has the best gear in the game, plus Luminous Weaver is craftable,
but they seem to be doing fairly poorly on the boards.

Fire and Storm don't need tricky spells, as you cannot outheal them once they
get setup and start doing damage from first.

Death can be an extreme danger in PvP, if they are first, but I see in
second they can have issue.

Balance has never had High damage from day one, it's has to relay on the fact
that they have multiple angles to attack. Pure Balance players only have
one shield to remove, but hey, they don't have fie elf, Posion, frostbite, high
damage storm bats, etc.

When you say LoreMaster has a -20 weakness and it stacks, that's at a cost.
Weakness (at -25) cost nothing, but what about Bad juju at -90, what
about efreet at -90. You can compare spells all day, but you need to add
in all the other spells, plus the gear that is available to the Wizard.
I think this is where it all even's out, maybe except for Storm.
The point here is, Balance is a good school for PvP, but it's spells are no
better than Fires, Myth, or Death's. It cannot touch Storm, who I do believe
is a complete Power house, and clearly the only wizard that is over powered in
the game.
Wait storm is overpowered in the top level pvp meta? Lol I need to hear you explain this.

Survivor
Jun 29, 2009
32
Aaron SpellThief on Apr 6, 2014 wrote:
First off, your first example is completely invalid. Ghost Dog is a PVE situation, not pvp, as this post is at least mostly about. If you attacked him first, you would do a lot of damage, thus not wasting those 5 pips, even if Ghost Dog did use his attack. Second, mana burn can lock opponents out of high pip spells if used correctly, and even if you don't spam it, you can make your opponent fear that you will if they save up pips, forcing them to attack quickly. Supernova is an amazing spell. Great damage and completely destroys an astral school-no other school has that advantage. Enchant it with an accuracy enchant, and you have armor piercing and pretty good accuracy. Finally, loremaster. Quite a bit of damage. 2 side effects. I don't understand how anyone can possibly think that loremaster is underpowered, or even balanced. And for your information, I have 2 balances. One level 18, I went from private to warlord with no losses on him. My other is level 50, 2358 rating. I think that this shows that I at least know what I'm talking about when it comes to balance..
I find it difficult to call loremaster unbalanced. Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best spell in the game hands down. But, it's EXTREMELY rare. Like, if you spend THAT much time farming lore, you deserve a slight advantage, don't you?

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
bran4971 on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
"It has all the tools to dominate a player that doesn't know what their doing, I will agree."

That is exactly why they are so good at PvP until they get past rank 1000 they will usually win about 70% of the time because their opponents do not know how to beat balance. This is also why the top ranked PvP players at level 90-95 are mostly storm because they are best equipped to deal with balances.They don't need many pips to kill don't have to use an aura, don't need to be bothered too much by weakness or tri- shield. Balance is easy to beat if you know how to just like any other school except reality is most people do not have the experience to defeat balance consistently.

Please pay attention to how things actually work instead of how they could work. Look around you & at the leaderboard. You will see far more balance wizards than any other school except storm and at the top there are fewer and fewer as you go up the ranks past 1000. Go try to step in another schools shoes that isn't balance or storm and fight your balances, perhaps then you will begin to see as other schools do. The fact that the people that are defending balances heavily are balance and that says something about the situation. the phrase "once a [balance] always a [balance]" works well here.
Bran,

I cannot disagree with what you wrote, but I would like to respond to one comment that you made.

"Go try to step in another schools shoes that isn't balance or storm and fight your balances,
perhaps then you will begin to see as other schools do."

I also have top level Myth and Ice in PvP, and I seldom have trouble with Balance on either
of them. Ice is by far the easist to beat Balance on, as they cannot heal, I can steal their heals.
If they can't heal, and I am agressive enough, they normally don't stand a chance. Add to that,
I normally carry Myth, Life and Balance dispels in my deck.

My Myth also has few problems with most Balance, as I rely on Stuns and Balance dispels.
I would say that my decks are designed for Balance, simply because of the number that I
see. I have far more issues with Storm, Ice and Fire, than Balance.

So I do walk in other wizards shoes, and don't fine it as others that have posted here.

One other item that someone else stated is how effective LoreMaster is. I honestly see it
as an effective hit and a -20 weaknees. The -35 accuracy, which is no where near as
effective as Black Mantel (-45), and causes so few fizzles, I pretty much ignore it.
What is effective, is casting it when I'm second and force the person to be concerned
that they may fizzle.

I would like to add, that I jumped into this conversation based on what I saw in PvP,
on my Balance. I am not limited to Balance, and PvP Storm at Level 90,
Myth at level 95, Ice at Level 95, and Balance at Level 95. I tried to pvp my
Level 90 Death, but find Death very hard to PvP at this Level.
I have plenty more Wizards that I pvp at the lower levels from 19 to 50.
I do enjoy PvP and speak from my experience only.
I would say that I find my Storm to be my strongest player, which may be a glass
cannon, but is very hard to stop.

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Wait storm is overpowered in the top level pvp meta? Lol I need to hear you explain this.
Eric,

It nees no explaination at all, please go count the number of Storm's at Level 90 or higher
on the PVP boards in the top 250 players. Then compare that number to any other school,
and I think it will explain itself. Someone posted these numbers a week or so ago, and I did
check the numbers.