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balance is overpowered

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
stormninja542 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
You act as though the black mantle and weakness is USELESS. Your horrible way of thinking is irritating. Balance has always been hard hitters and they hit even harder with hades' gear, loremaster, and savage paw. Balance has some of the best hades' gear out of the schools. It has everything balance needs to be successful in pvp. Balance is far from underpowered. You act as the special effects of your spells are useless. If efreet had its curse removed It wouldn't be useful in most cases. You are simply throwing around pointless junk left and right.
Storm,

I do find the Accuracy of -35 (which is not a Black Mantle at -45), almost useless. The only time
I find a use for it is to make people think. I find most players still cast their spell, and very seldom
fizzle on this spell. The -20 Weakness I do find as effective, to slow down a major hit, but I would
certainly like to see it as a -25.
Balance has always been seen as a hard hitter, because of Judge, no other spell really has a solid
high damage hit like fire or Storm.
I see many complain about LoreMaster, and this is a solid hit for 4 pips, I will not disagree with that.
The problem is, LoreMaster is almost impossible to get, and I have three Balances trying for it
non stop every night. It is very, very hard to get dropped and cannot be crafted.

I have Savage Paw and don't even use it, as I find that since I finally has to waste all of my
Crown to get LoreMaster on one Wizard, it superseeds Savage Paw, no doubt in my mind.

Hades gear does help, but I also use Hades gear for my Myth and Ice (but I find sometimes
I drop back to my crafted gear for Ice). I am still working on getting it for my Storm, and
have stopped PvPing him till I get it.
Hades gear helps all wizards just about as much as Balance, if not more in some cases.

My pointless junk that I am throwing around left and right is based on a lot of PvP time.
As a myth, Ice, storm, and Balance, all at Levels 90 to 95. I state what I see in Ranked
PvP, and not what I see in practice or PVE.

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
stormninja542 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Mana burn can remove up to 2 or 3 power pips and does 80 damage per pip. If your opponent has a ton of pips, that damage is no where near minimal damage, it's deadly and takes away pips. You can spam it every few rounds and it's effective to spam it every few rounds since your opponent's pips go down too and take damage at the same time. Even if you don't load supernova in you deck, you opponent, knowing you're balance, will be too scared to even attempt to use auras. Loremaster deals more damage, and has 2 side effects while luminous weaver only has one. Loremaster is clearly a better spell even if its weakness is 5% weaker. These spells are simply creating a major problem in pvp. Forcing people to make ridiculous deck changes and even changing their pets. This is a major problem that I am simply trying to get across.
Ok, but it cannot use the Power pips, so it does 80 times 7 for a total of 560 damage. What is RA,
560 damage (on the lower end), what is Samurai, as I remember, it's 560. All low damage hits,
not even close to fire or strom.
Can you spam Mana Burn, I guess, but do you know how many situation that you cannot use it in.

You appear to think that everyone is going to hold their pips, so I could just mana burn and damage
them. I can assure you, that is not the case at all, if I get in a hit with it, I'm lucky.
Most will use their pips as fast as they can, or dispel me to build another pip to attack.
Or Black Mantel me, etc, etc, I find Mana Burn against most skilled players a joke.

I won't disagree that Loremaster is a solid hit for Balance, I do disagree on how effect the -35
accuracy is. I find that almost useless against most players, I seldom can even get a Storm
to fizzle with that.

I agree with you on Super Nova, that is it's function, and I seldom see anyone try to bring it up
without a shield on. Yes, since Balance is a school without brute force, it needs utility spells
to stay alive.

Where we really disagree is that these spells are creating a major problem in PvP for skilled players.
I don't see any spell in PVP as creating a problem, in fact I see PvP more Balanced than it ever
has been in the past. Forcing people to make changes to their deck is an on going process.
I am constantly changing my deck to deal with different strategies, new spells, etc.
I just see this as part of the evolving game, nothing more.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Wait, let me get this straight you are telling me that a 1-3% resist difference is relevant when at the same time you tried to convince me that a 600->1000 health buffer(approximately 10-20% difference) is insignificant? If you are wearing the waterworks gear(the complete set) in high level PvP, you are in the wrong era of PvP. You don't see the difference for the lowest accuracy schools(the elementals) dropping even more accuracy and the highest accuracy school gaining some? I went ahead and checked the gear, using the full offensive set and assuming alpha/titan rings and athame balance is sitting at 94% accuracy and 96% power pips, defensive set it is sitting at 86% accuracy and 97% power pips. Fire using the offensive and assuming alpha/titan set is sitting at 88% accuracy and 92% power pips. Fire using the defensive set is sitting at 78% accuracy and 92% power pips. So balance has a higher power pip chance and accuracy than fire with both of those sets and they made a great sacrifice? There is a disconnect here. I agree with you that fairy's heal is a major impact when it occurs, however it's cast rate does not occur often enough or reliably enough to counter loremaster's and it has been specifically adjusted to cast at spritely's rate. If balance doesn't need to spend a talent slot on accuracy that is an advantage to the school, not a disadvantage. As for the triggers for pet healing talents that has been tested time and time again, only hits trigger it. The reason non-hit spells seem to trigger it is often because hits have occurred or are occurring during the round that triggered the heal but it activated immediately after you placed an infection.
First of all, nobody would use the entire Hades set if they had the chance to get the Boots of the Other Lizard. That 97% power pip chance would drop to 89%. You also can't just assume that wizards would use the offensive/defensive gear without mixing the two, because most PvPers actually do. The reason why Balance has such high power pip chance is because Balance Life and Death are power pip chance schools, and Fire and Storm were meant to get low accuracy but have great damage spells. Their high rank spells deal the most damage the game has ever had, and their rank 2 spells do more than any other rank 2 spell in the game. The trade-off for such high damage? Accuracy. When KingsIsle made Fire and Storm have "high damage", I'm assuming they didn't make Fire have high damage boost. They made the schools have high damage base spells, which is why their accuracy and power pip chance is lower. To add to that, they also have high critical ratings and a little low health, except Fire has jumped back into the health parade. Ever since the crafted gear became very useful, Fire's gear allowed their health to nearly catch up to Balance's. That 500 base health difference is often reduced to a mere 200 difference, while Fire having higher damage per pip with their higher rank spells and 2/3 pip spells. Fire Elf does more (and better damage form) than Scorpion, Sunbird does more damage than Locust Swarm, Immolate does do more damage but has less effects than Loremaster, Phoenix does more than Savage Paw still, Helephant does more than Hydra, Fire Dragon more than Power Nova, Efreet doing a lot more damage than Ra with a -90% Weakness effect, Rain of Fire doing more than Chimera but on all enemies, Sun Serpent doing more damage than Sabertooth and attacks all enemies. The same is for Storm except Storm hits much much harder than Fire and Balance. Storm traded off all defensive stats for massive offense. Fire is staying in the middle for these stats but their spells aren't. I honestly don't get how you can call Balance overpowered without looking at Fire or Storm or Myth first.

The new era of PvP relies solely on damage these days, and those 3 schools are tops for those. Balance only has 2 decent spells that could possibly help them keep up, Loremaster and Savage Paw. Balance isn't overpowered but not underpowered if you use it right. If you're a starter at Balance PvP or still mid-experienced, you'll find Balance a lot weaker than it should be. If you're a very experienced Balance PvPer and took the time to farm for Loremaster and Savage Paw, then you could find PvP a whole lot easier. The fact that Balance can't save blades for an easy OHKO like other schools can and that Balance needs to farm to keep up with other schools stops it from being overpowered in the slightest way possible.

If you don't like the accuracy drop with Hades gear, switch back to the WW gear or use the Warlord wand.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
stormninja542 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Exactly, but pvp king and saber are too ignorant to even know loremaster is op.
It would be overpowered if a school with high damage spells got it. If Fire got Loremaster, it would be overpowered because they could use Fire Elf then go off and spam Lores. If Storm got it, then they'd have a too good of defense for such an offensive school. If Life got it, I guess that wouldn't matter much. If Death got it, it wouldn't be too overpowered either because their spells don't deal a great deal of damage anyway. If Myth got it, then with their stuns and blade/trap removing spells would make Loremaster too overpowered. If Ice got it, they'd simply be too defensive. But since Balance got the spell, and they don't have a damage over time, an overpowering stat, or another insanely overpowered spell really, it makes Loremaster suitable and fine for Balance. The insanely low drop rate of the spell makes the spell not overpowered at all. I bet it's more rare than the Amulet of Divine Influence. If a Balance wizard took that much time to farm for a spell, they deserve something as good as Loremaster. However, other schools already have great spells and need little to no farming for it, so they're a step ahead of Balance until the Balance wizard decides to farm for up to months or even years.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Wait storm is overpowered in the top level pvp meta? Lol I need to hear you explain this.
Storm is in fact overpowered at top level PvP. They've caught up in health a bit. 3500 health is great for a Storm wizard, and using their 28% damage boots, their 25% damage robe, their 18% damage hat, 15% damage athame, 10% damage ring, they can get up to a total of 94% damage and no pet included. If they do choose to get a pet, then they could easily destroy any opponent with their massive damage. Add about 15% damage, that's 109% damage boost total. Their critical now? 185 from the hat, 97 from the robe, 137 from the wand is 419 critical rating. Add the 40 critical athame? Maybe switch off the boots for their critical ones? Storm has a critical rating that is rarely blocked in the arena, with block rating being at the lower/mid 200's. Armor pierce is 14% and can be higher with critical boots or the Hades offensive boots, giving 26% armor pierce. Storm is a lot more overpowered than everybody else dreams Balance is. If you're calling Balance the powerhouse, Balance the top 1v1 school, that's a joke, just take a look at Storm and you'll know exactly who the overpowered one is. One lucky critical 1000 Wild Bolt and gg, you lost, nothing you can do about it, not even a heal's going to save you vs a Storm. Especially not Balance's.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
stormninja542 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
You act as though the black mantle and weakness is USELESS. Your horrible way of thinking is irritating. Balance has always been hard hitters and they hit even harder with hades' gear, loremaster, and savage paw. Balance has some of the best hades' gear out of the schools. It has everything balance needs to be successful in pvp. Balance is far from underpowered. You act as the special effects of your spells are useless. If efreet had its curse removed It wouldn't be useful in most cases. You are simply throwing around pointless junk left and right.
Balance has always been the hard hitters? Lol, since when? Since we used to use Locust swarm and did 300 damage? LOL, before Loremaster and Savage Paw were made, Balance hit even worse than Ice did. No armor pierce, no blades to help, decent damage boost but low accuracy. Balance was simply stuck at the worst or second worst school ever since Celestia hit until Aquila and Loremaster came out. When Loremaster showed up, that was Balance's hope. Savage Paw isn't exactly overpowered, Stormzilla does 230 more damage for the same pips and even if you use Savage Paw twice in a row the 25% blade doesn't help it keep up even with Phoenix. Balance is probably the hardest and weakest school to play until you take your time to farm for Loremaster and Savage Paw. Mana Burn and Supernova being situational spells didn't exactly make Balance what you call the most persistent attacker, and you could easily heal off until the Balance wizard used the spell again. Loremaster and Savage Paw keep Balance up in the high tempo play, if Balance didn't have those spells then Balance wouldn't even be worth fighting in PvP, so quit whining about it.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
stormninja542 on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Mana burn can remove up to 2 or 3 power pips and does 80 damage per pip. If your opponent has a ton of pips, that damage is no where near minimal damage, it's deadly and takes away pips. You can spam it every few rounds and it's effective to spam it every few rounds since your opponent's pips go down too and take damage at the same time. Even if you don't load supernova in you deck, you opponent, knowing you're balance, will be too scared to even attempt to use auras. Loremaster deals more damage, and has 2 side effects while luminous weaver only has one. Loremaster is clearly a better spell even if its weakness is 5% weaker. These spells are simply creating a major problem in pvp. Forcing people to make ridiculous deck changes and even changing their pets. This is a major problem that I am simply trying to get across.
Lol, still complaining about Mana Burn are we? Well no, think about it Storm, if you think 80 damage per pip is overpowered, and saying that they can "Spam" it, look at Tempest. 80 damage per pip right there, and the easiest spell to spam because it's an x pip spell. Mana Burn can only be used if the Balance wizard has 5 pips and the opponent has 2-3 more pips than the Balance wizard or the spell is a complete waste. Any person with a brain would know that. If the Balance wizard is second, Mana Burn is an absolute waste of a turn. Often from first you're throwing away your pips because you know you can counter the opponent next turn anyways, so Mana Burn would be a waste. Every time the opponent has that open door for a chance, they're obviously going to use their pips on the hit for that turn. No Warlord wastes a wide open chance.

I know some wizards who aren't afraid of using star spells against Balance. What wizards are these? Fire wizards I've seen. This Fire wizard I faced from second a couple days back used Infallible, I pulled Supernova out of my sideboard with the Unstoppable enchant, and to my surprise he used Krampus. I fizzled. The next turn he used the same spell but I tried for Loremaster + Supernova combo but Loremaster fizzled as well. I was then at less than half my pips. The next turn, he used Tower Shield. By then, I was forced to heal before he gained even more pips and finished me off with a critical or closed me in with a Doom and Gloom or simply used an Infection. Supernova isn't as overpowered as you think if you know what you're doing, and that Fire wizard clearly did.

Loremaster does have 2 side effects, yes, but that doesn't make the spell overpowered. I brought up Power Link because it's a far better example of doing multiple things than Loremaster. Lets you heal, lets you hit hard with your next spell, removes Weaknesses, Infections, shields, and deals a lot of damage on the opponent. Link does the same for 2 pips with less damage and is a lot more efficient than Loremaster, so I don't see why you complain.

Another thing to add about auras. Other schools have damage increasing global spells for 2 pips. It only needs to be casted once, while Star spells (from the Balance wizard) need to be casted several times to keep it up. Balance can't change the global spell unless they want to be at a pip disadvantage. Balance has to use multiple turns to do more damage, while other schools can do multiple damage for the rest of the match at a convenience of 2 pips and only need to cast the spell once. The blade stacking adds to that, and so the 2 together add up to more damage than Infallible ever helps a Balance wizard with.

Balance also requires months of farming and at least a year or two to master. Other schools can become great for a shorter amount of time. Like I said a billion times before, Balance isn't overpowered, it's in between 3rd-5th place for best PvP school, 3rd with Lore but 5th without. Not overpowered.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
IcicleWar on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Eric,

It nees no explaination at all, please go count the number of Storm's at Level 90 or higher
on the PVP boards in the top 250 players. Then compare that number to any other school,
and I think it will explain itself. Someone posted these numbers a week or so ago, and I did
check the numbers.
I looked at the leaderboards. Balance at level 95+ has 25 players. Storm at lvl 95+ has 17 players. Now let's look at the number 1 player on the leaderboards(a storm) Simple mathematical calculations demonstrate that the leader of the boards rank is either false or from team play. In 1v1 the maximum rank you can get from a match is 16. Assuming he won every single match(highly unlikely) this comes out to 3552 which is less than his displayed rank of 3663. Most high level storm player's on the leaderboard's rank come from team play which is where storm excels due to the dynamics present in that type of PvP. Thus, none of what the leaderboard's limited statistics show demonstrate in any way that storm is overpowered in the top lvl 1v1 meta.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
PvP King on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Lol, you clearly don't get my point at all. Who doesn't keep low pip spells in their decks? PvE wizards? Maybe even some starters in PvP.. Who knows, but I don't think anybody in all of the game at ranks 600 or higher only keeps high pip spells in their deck. Everybody loads low pip spells (Even Privates do), and I've given you examples already. Elemental/Spirit Blade keep your pips the same, Satyr is 4 pips, and there are many Warlords who use minions these days, keeping their pips low the way they were. Mana Burn, however, gets the Balance wizard nowhere. How can you not understand that? Oh oops, I used 3 pips to burn somebody else's 3 pips, I see the unfairness in that. Yeah nice try.

Why would Balance use Cleanse Charm on shields? Lol, Weakness isn't the only spell that stops Balance, shields do too. So you think Cleanse charm can solve all of Balance's blading problems making them avoid shields and have nice 35% blades, yeah right.

Yeah, Balance does have useful spells, but they're not overpowered like you keep daydreaming they are. Availing Hands? It heals the same as Satyr but slower, I don't see the problem in that at all. Loremaster, uh oh, that -20% damage on the Balance? Yeah because a Balance wizard can totally rely on a 20% Weakness alone, I've even tested that little theory of only using Loremaster for you with max Reshuffle TC and got owned pretty quick by a Life wizard. Yeah, not the best spell.

I'm not complaining about Balance, LOL! That's funny. I'm stating facts about how Balance isn't overpowered and what's keeping it from not being overpowered, unlike you who takes everything as a complaint against one school. Oh, I said Loremaster is a great spell but not overpowered, guess I'm complaining huh?

Yeah, I have been pointing out the fact that Balance can't blade for a reason. It's what's keeping us from being overpowered. If we had the ability to shake off Weaknesses and shields in one turn like other schools do while keeping blades and were also given a damage over time, then Balance would truly be overpowered. Right now, it's not. Why? Because Balance can't take off shields. Why do you think Shrike is complained about so much? Oh yeah, I forgot, because hitting on a -0% shield is overpowered. Hitting on a -50%, however, like Balance usually does unless the opponent is more of an offense type player, is not. Get the difference now? Or are you still too stubborn to leave that annoying little theory of "Uh oh I'm fighting a Balance, might as well beg for mercy, I'm done."?

Did you know that casting a minion lets you build pips because the Balance wizard would go for it? Or that Black Mantle makes Balance wizards fizzle? Did you think about using Infection for Availing Hands? Tower Shield when the Balance uses Infallible? Use low pip spells when the opponent shields? Keeping your pips fairly low unless you're going for a OHKO? These are the most basic things you learn in PvP, and yet everybody complains about it.
I will say it again, people do not load low pip spells in their deck. When did I ever say you use cleanse charm on shields? Do you need to read my post yet another time? LOL it's funny how you keep denying that you are complaining. Maybe you have not yet learned the definition of complaining so why don't you go look it up. How about you try spamming loremaster, savage paw, supernova, and mana burn. Or maybe that won't work for you because you don't know how to use your own spells as most balances who claim balance is underpowered do. Blades aren't needed anymore to hit hard. Seriously man, have you done pvp in the last few months? If you have you would know auras like infallible are WAY better than blades. Blades aren't nearly as popular anymore because they're not needed. So, balances blading problem isn't much of a problem anymore. Since shrike is in the arenas and armour pierce is easier to achieve, shields aren't much of a problem either. So balance's weaknesses aren't affecting them nearly as much. But, for schools like fire and storm, they keep their weaknesses. They will ALWAYS have low base health. They will ALWAYS have lower base accuracy. Even if fire and storm get gear with high accuracy boost there will ALWAYS be a price for it. I did not complain about availing hands. I merely said availing hands makes a balance harder to kill even though their base health is high enough. LOL you are telling me that hitting into a -0% shields are op, I am beginning to think you are actually trying to agree with me balance is a bit op. With shrike, balance only has 0% shields to deal with smart one. Other schools still have to deal with 20-30% shields even with shrike or did you forget all of a sudden that they have SCHOOL SHIELDS. Wouldn't be surprised you would forget considering the fact you don't have to worry about them. Did you know casting minions lets you build pips because ANY school you face will go after it? Or did you forget the other schools have the same problems?

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
PvP King on Apr 7, 2014 wrote:
Here's a recap that can hopefully change people's minds of Balance being overpowered.
1. Supernova isn't an issue as you can discard the aura. Even if the Balance wizard uses Infallible and you're at an aura disadvantage, other schools have their global spells ranging from 25-35% extra damage.
2. Other schools can wipe out Weaknesses and Shields without ruining one of their own blade setups. This is why Balance wizards don't use blades in the first place, not because they don't need them.
3. Availing Hands is a great spell, but Satyr heals the same for an immediate cause.
4. Mana Burn simply cannot be "spammed" at 5 pips. If you save pips, fix your deck and add smaller spells, you can't expect to even get half way to Corporal if your only spells are ranks 8+.
5. Balance lost its one-of-a-kind ability of high power pip chance.
6. Supernova and Mana Burn are both situational, both can be a complete waste of a turn or even more dangerous, a waste of 5 pips from second.
7. Because of Balance's incapability of taking off shields, using low rank spells for Balance is a must. That makes Balance wizards even less capable of a OHKO.
8. Loremaster does fair damage and puts 2 debuffs on the opponent. It takes months or even a year to farm for, and the Black Mantle itself never works. The Weakness however may end up saving the Balance wizard's life, but it isn't reliable.
9. Simple to say Balance does the 5th least damage.
10. Balance has had the worst spells up to level 70. 80 finally put Balance up there.
11. Balance is a very hard school to play, it takes much more work to become good at PvP on a Balance wizard than it does any other school, as a lot of deck work and farming, farming (and did I mention farming?) is needed.
12. Balance is great, but not good enough to keep up with the "high damage trend" without farming for half decent spells.
13. Most schools just spam their overpowered spells, Mana Burn is useless.
14. Just no. No.
Let me see, hmm. Well it hasn't changed my mind a bit lol.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
IcicleWar on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Ok, but it cannot use the Power pips, so it does 80 times 7 for a total of 560 damage. What is RA,
560 damage (on the lower end), what is Samurai, as I remember, it's 560. All low damage hits,
not even close to fire or strom.
Can you spam Mana Burn, I guess, but do you know how many situation that you cannot use it in.

You appear to think that everyone is going to hold their pips, so I could just mana burn and damage
them. I can assure you, that is not the case at all, if I get in a hit with it, I'm lucky.
Most will use their pips as fast as they can, or dispel me to build another pip to attack.
Or Black Mantel me, etc, etc, I find Mana Burn against most skilled players a joke.

I won't disagree that Loremaster is a solid hit for Balance, I do disagree on how effect the -35
accuracy is. I find that almost useless against most players, I seldom can even get a Storm
to fizzle with that.

I agree with you on Super Nova, that is it's function, and I seldom see anyone try to bring it up
without a shield on. Yes, since Balance is a school without brute force, it needs utility spells
to stay alive.

Where we really disagree is that these spells are creating a major problem in PvP for skilled players.
I don't see any spell in PVP as creating a problem, in fact I see PvP more Balanced than it ever
has been in the past. Forcing people to make changes to their deck is an on going process.
I am constantly changing my deck to deal with different strategies, new spells, etc.
I just see this as part of the evolving game, nothing more.
Well icicle I don't know what to say other than I still feel these spells are really impacting pvp. If you truly feel these spells are not impacting pvp in a negative way then tell me why people aren't using auras as often or their pets with may cast auras, or loading up on low pips spells? These are the negative effects that are happening due to mana burn and supernova. Loremaster spamming is difficult to counter at times and the -35% accuracy can be a big help when spammed, whether you think it is or not. To tell you the truth, I do agree that loremaster should be fairly powerful for the work needed to get the spell. I am thoroughly upset that KI didn't even bother giving schools like fire and storm any decent spells. Balance got savage paw and loremaster (which I don't think I need to explain why they're so awesome). Myth got ninja pigs which does a ton of damage for its pip cost. Life got luminous weaver which I actually don't find to be a "powerful spell" but a very useful one in pvp. Ice got winter moon which does the same amount of damage as frostbite, a dot spell, it has the same pip cost, and it has a stun. Death got deer knight which is a powerful dot spell that hits all enemies and is stronger than fire's scald. Storm got, catalan which does about the same amount of damage as stormzilla for the same pip cost which makes it useless to farm or craft. Fire got brimstone revenant which costs 4 pips and only does 440 damage. Fire also got krampus which costs 4 pips and does a measly 305-345 damage to one enemy (while meteor strike has the same pip cost and does that damage to all) and puts a black mantle on the target. My main point for even posting on this topic is to get this ridiculous idea of balance being underpowered out of peoples' minds.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
PvP King on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Lol, still complaining about Mana Burn are we? Well no, think about it Storm, if you think 80 damage per pip is overpowered, and saying that they can "Spam" it, look at Tempest. 80 damage per pip right there, and the easiest spell to spam because it's an x pip spell. Mana Burn can only be used if the Balance wizard has 5 pips and the opponent has 2-3 more pips than the Balance wizard or the spell is a complete waste. Any person with a brain would know that. If the Balance wizard is second, Mana Burn is an absolute waste of a turn. Often from first you're throwing away your pips because you know you can counter the opponent next turn anyways, so Mana Burn would be a waste. Every time the opponent has that open door for a chance, they're obviously going to use their pips on the hit for that turn. No Warlord wastes a wide open chance.

I know some wizards who aren't afraid of using star spells against Balance. What wizards are these? Fire wizards I've seen. This Fire wizard I faced from second a couple days back used Infallible, I pulled Supernova out of my sideboard with the Unstoppable enchant, and to my surprise he used Krampus. I fizzled. The next turn he used the same spell but I tried for Loremaster + Supernova combo but Loremaster fizzled as well. I was then at less than half my pips. The next turn, he used Tower Shield. By then, I was forced to heal before he gained even more pips and finished me off with a critical or closed me in with a Doom and Gloom or simply used an Infection. Supernova isn't as overpowered as you think if you know what you're doing, and that Fire wizard clearly did.

Loremaster does have 2 side effects, yes, but that doesn't make the spell overpowered. I brought up Power Link because it's a far better example of doing multiple things than Loremaster. Lets you heal, lets you hit hard with your next spell, removes Weaknesses, Infections, shields, and deals a lot of damage on the opponent. Link does the same for 2 pips with less damage and is a lot more efficient than Loremaster, so I don't see why you complain.

Another thing to add about auras. Other schools have damage increasing global spells for 2 pips. It only needs to be casted once, while Star spells (from the Balance wizard) need to be casted several times to keep it up. Balance can't change the global spell unless they want to be at a pip disadvantage. Balance has to use multiple turns to do more damage, while other schools can do multiple damage for the rest of the match at a convenience of 2 pips and only need to cast the spell once. The blade stacking adds to that, and so the 2 together add up to more damage than Infallible ever helps a Balance wizard with.

Balance also requires months of farming and at least a year or two to master. Other schools can become great for a shorter amount of time. Like I said a billion times before, Balance isn't overpowered, it's in between 3rd-5th place for best PvP school, 3rd with Lore but 5th without. Not overpowered.
LOL so your fizzling problem all of a sudden makes these spells not so great? Last I checked, power link doesn't make you "hit hard" on your next spell because it doesn't give you blades or put traps on the target. Most balances spam doom to take out bubbles. Blade stacking isn't needed to hit hard. While your opponent is blade stacking why don't you spam loremaster or stack weaknesses? Your opponent can only remove one weakness at a time. Just because it took you a year or 2 to master balance isn't anyone else's problem but your own.

Survivor
Feb 23, 2011
13
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
I looked at the leaderboards. Balance at level 95+ has 25 players. Storm at lvl 95+ has 17 players. Now let's look at the number 1 player on the leaderboards(a storm) Simple mathematical calculations demonstrate that the leader of the boards rank is either false or from team play. In 1v1 the maximum rank you can get from a match is 16. Assuming he won every single match(highly unlikely) this comes out to 3552 which is less than his displayed rank of 3663. Most high level storm player's on the leaderboard's rank come from team play which is where storm excels due to the dynamics present in that type of PvP. Thus, none of what the leaderboard's limited statistics show demonstrate in any way that storm is overpowered in the top lvl 1v1 meta.
I concur with this kind of evaluation as to how leaderboard neither show nor demonstrate the actual value of who is OP or which school dominates. Far from the figures in the leader board are those overlords who are not in the top 100 category. Thus, the figure will never demonstrate conclusively, even statistically, what is the actual and real data from pvp as a whole - both team and 1v1 rank pvp.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
PvP King on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
First of all, nobody would use the entire Hades set if they had the chance to get the Boots of the Other Lizard. That 97% power pip chance would drop to 89%. You also can't just assume that wizards would use the offensive/defensive gear without mixing the two, because most PvPers actually do. The reason why Balance has such high power pip chance is because Balance Life and Death are power pip chance schools, and Fire and Storm were meant to get low accuracy but have great damage spells. Their high rank spells deal the most damage the game has ever had, and their rank 2 spells do more than any other rank 2 spell in the game. The trade-off for such high damage? Accuracy. When KingsIsle made Fire and Storm have "high damage", I'm assuming they didn't make Fire have high damage boost. They made the schools have high damage base spells, which is why their accuracy and power pip chance is lower. To add to that, they also have high critical ratings and a little low health, except Fire has jumped back into the health parade. Ever since the crafted gear became very useful, Fire's gear allowed their health to nearly catch up to Balance's. That 500 base health difference is often reduced to a mere 200 difference, while Fire having higher damage per pip with their higher rank spells and 2/3 pip spells. Fire Elf does more (and better damage form) than Scorpion, Sunbird does more damage than Locust Swarm, Immolate does do more damage but has less effects than Loremaster, Phoenix does more than Savage Paw still, Helephant does more than Hydra, Fire Dragon more than Power Nova, Efreet doing a lot more damage than Ra with a -90% Weakness effect, Rain of Fire doing more than Chimera but on all enemies, Sun Serpent doing more damage than Sabertooth and attacks all enemies. The same is for Storm except Storm hits much much harder than Fire and Balance. Storm traded off all defensive stats for massive offense. Fire is staying in the middle for these stats but their spells aren't. I honestly don't get how you can call Balance overpowered without looking at Fire or Storm or Myth first.

The new era of PvP relies solely on damage these days, and those 3 schools are tops for those. Balance only has 2 decent spells that could possibly help them keep up, Loremaster and Savage Paw. Balance isn't overpowered but not underpowered if you use it right. If you're a starter at Balance PvP or still mid-experienced, you'll find Balance a lot weaker than it should be. If you're a very experienced Balance PvPer and took the time to farm for Loremaster and Savage Paw, then you could find PvP a whole lot easier. The fact that Balance can't save blades for an easy OHKO like other schools can and that Balance needs to farm to keep up with other schools stops it from being overpowered in the slightest way possible.

If you don't like the accuracy drop with Hades gear, switch back to the WW gear or use the Warlord wand.
That is true, however if other schools also use their crafted Azteca boots they too drop in power pip chance and end up...below balance. I am not assuming anything about gear setups I am simply comparing stats and pointing out the stats as they actually are and not what you seem to think they are. Comparing crafted gear and looking at the base health of the schools we can once again see that fire is not within 200 health of balance. You probably don't understand how I can call balance overpowered because I am not calling balance overpowered. I know we both have storm in our name but I am not stormninja and we obviously have different opinions.
The new Era of PvP depends on dealing damage and dealing damage through defenses. Fire Myth and Balance are adept at this. Fire because of DoT's, Myth because of the nature of their spells and ward manipulation and Balance because of one available shield and large availability of pierce. I agree Balance isn't overpowered and every school under the sun can be considered underpowered if you play it incorrectly. What we disagree on is the statement that balance is underpowered which it clearly is not. Finally on the point of waterworks gear, switching back to that set in top level PvP is a death sentence and the warlord wand comes with steep sacrifices in both block, critical and pierce which often prempt it's use in the top level meta.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
PvP King on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
Storm is in fact overpowered at top level PvP. They've caught up in health a bit. 3500 health is great for a Storm wizard, and using their 28% damage boots, their 25% damage robe, their 18% damage hat, 15% damage athame, 10% damage ring, they can get up to a total of 94% damage and no pet included. If they do choose to get a pet, then they could easily destroy any opponent with their massive damage. Add about 15% damage, that's 109% damage boost total. Their critical now? 185 from the hat, 97 from the robe, 137 from the wand is 419 critical rating. Add the 40 critical athame? Maybe switch off the boots for their critical ones? Storm has a critical rating that is rarely blocked in the arena, with block rating being at the lower/mid 200's. Armor pierce is 14% and can be higher with critical boots or the Hades offensive boots, giving 26% armor pierce. Storm is a lot more overpowered than everybody else dreams Balance is. If you're calling Balance the powerhouse, Balance the top 1v1 school, that's a joke, just take a look at Storm and you'll know exactly who the overpowered one is. One lucky critical 1000 Wild Bolt and gg, you lost, nothing you can do about it, not even a heal's going to save you vs a Storm. Especially not Balance's.
Ok lets go into this. They caught up in health a bit? No they haven't and the nature of health boosts in this game ensures that the gap in health between schools will continue to grow as we level. 3500 is anywhere between 1000-2000 points of difference from the other schools(that's a 40-60% health difference). If the Storm is using the diviners deep rolling set(the attack gear you are mentioning) they have no block except to one school and no resist except to fire and myth, no critical and no block. Do you know what they call a storm with no resist, no block, no critical and no pierce? A private because this set would never ever be used effectively in 1v1 lol. If you are using the Hades set as you are referencing: their block becomes less than 100 not this magical 200+ number that simply does not exist with the gear set up you are flaunting. Any storm walking into the arena wearing the gear you stated facing a wizard with a more balanced set with about 200 critical block and 300 critical will score less than 50% of his criticals against his opponent while the opponent will score more than 60% of his criticals against said storm. So come again how that is overpowered in 1v1? One lucky critical wildbolt (that has about a 15% chance of happening if they are wearing critical gear and you have 200+ block) is potentially a game ender and that is exactly in the nature of storm high risk for potential benefit. Look at the legions of sub-private lvl 95 storms and ask them how well the max critical gear bolt spam strategy is working against anyone who is not lvl 50.

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
I looked at the leaderboards. Balance at level 95+ has 25 players. Storm at lvl 95+ has 17 players. Now let's look at the number 1 player on the leaderboards(a storm) Simple mathematical calculations demonstrate that the leader of the boards rank is either false or from team play. In 1v1 the maximum rank you can get from a match is 16. Assuming he won every single match(highly unlikely) this comes out to 3552 which is less than his displayed rank of 3663. Most high level storm player's on the leaderboard's rank come from team play which is where storm excels due to the dynamics present in that type of PvP. Thus, none of what the leaderboard's limited statistics show demonstrate in any way that storm is overpowered in the top lvl 1v1 meta.
Eric,

I would need more information before I could reply. I was looking at 90+, and only in
1v1 PvP. Looking at 2v2, etc, or looking at the Tournament data would skew the
information. Also, the displayed rank has been in question for almost a year now,
as far as I know, so I have learned to ingore it.
Ignoring the boards, your time alone in PvP, 1v1, should tell you that Storm is
designed very well at this point in time. Do I feel from hundreds of battles
at level 90/95 that storm is at the top of the 1v1 chart, yes I do.
Just my opinion, it can be countered and ignored, as you wish.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
stormninja542 on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
I will say it again, people do not load low pip spells in their deck. When did I ever say you use cleanse charm on shields? Do you need to read my post yet another time? LOL it's funny how you keep denying that you are complaining. Maybe you have not yet learned the definition of complaining so why don't you go look it up. How about you try spamming loremaster, savage paw, supernova, and mana burn. Or maybe that won't work for you because you don't know how to use your own spells as most balances who claim balance is underpowered do. Blades aren't needed anymore to hit hard. Seriously man, have you done pvp in the last few months? If you have you would know auras like infallible are WAY better than blades. Blades aren't nearly as popular anymore because they're not needed. So, balances blading problem isn't much of a problem anymore. Since shrike is in the arenas and armour pierce is easier to achieve, shields aren't much of a problem either. So balance's weaknesses aren't affecting them nearly as much. But, for schools like fire and storm, they keep their weaknesses. They will ALWAYS have low base health. They will ALWAYS have lower base accuracy. Even if fire and storm get gear with high accuracy boost there will ALWAYS be a price for it. I did not complain about availing hands. I merely said availing hands makes a balance harder to kill even though their base health is high enough. LOL you are telling me that hitting into a -0% shields are op, I am beginning to think you are actually trying to agree with me balance is a bit op. With shrike, balance only has 0% shields to deal with smart one. Other schools still have to deal with 20-30% shields even with shrike or did you forget all of a sudden that they have SCHOOL SHIELDS. Wouldn't be surprised you would forget considering the fact you don't have to worry about them. Did you know casting minions lets you build pips because ANY school you face will go after it? Or did you forget the other schools have the same problems?
Lol, so you're saying I don't know how to use my own spells? I'm probably better at PvP than most, because that's what my record so far is telling me. I can't "spam" Mana Burn because sorry, rank 2000+ PvP has opponents that know what they're doing.

Yes, blades are needed to hit hard, unless you rely on critical rating. Blades make all the difference for PvP matches, especially on damage over time spells.

No, LOL, one Infallible isn't better than 2 different blades AT ALL. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Cast a 35% blade, a 45% blade, and you don't even need Infallible. Plus with the already around 16-17% armor pierce most have, Infallible is more than you even need anyways, unless the opponent is a Jade (They do exist, I've fought this death Jade named Steven multiple times who uses Cloaked Bad Juju's and a Balance Mastery Amulet, making it nearly impossible to beat).

Blades are popular still, if you haven't noticed. Storm wizards obviously don't use them because 2 Wild Bolts in a row are better than one with a Stormblade, however other schools like Fire/Myth/Ice/Death/Life still use blades because it's 35-50% extra damage boost, which is worth using.

Shrike is barely used in the higher ranks of PvP. Anybody who uses Shrike there is bound to lose the match unless they're on the verge of winning from first. Most Warlords that you see pack blades in their decks instead of Infallible and keep a high rank of global spells to add to those. That's their way of saying "I don't need Infallible".

Oh really? Tower Shields are -0% after using Shrike? Thanks for stating the obvious, I couldn't tell. Like I said, Shrike is the worst spell to use in high ranks of PvP. Get over it.

Casting minions do stall the opponent's pips, including Balance's. If you didn't know that, then don't even act like you know anything about PvP. If you use a minion, the Balance wizard will go for it (it's common sense), letting you save pips and avoid mana burn. That was my point. Sorry you don't read anything to understand.

Like I've said before, your argument on Balance being overpowered is completely pointless. No structure to the point, no explaining how it's overpowered, you just think about Balance using the spells. What about other schools using a DoT, Shrike, then hitting? You're not only piercing through shields but on resist too that way. Balance however, will only pierce the Tower Shield and not resist. The spell benefits all schools equally. Seems like you're too unexperienced to use your own spell properly.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
stormninja542 on Apr 8, 2014 wrote:
LOL so your fizzling problem all of a sudden makes these spells not so great? Last I checked, power link doesn't make you "hit hard" on your next spell because it doesn't give you blades or put traps on the target. Most balances spam doom to take out bubbles. Blade stacking isn't needed to hit hard. While your opponent is blade stacking why don't you spam loremaster or stack weaknesses? Your opponent can only remove one weakness at a time. Just because it took you a year or 2 to master balance isn't anyone else's problem but your own.
I'm saying there's a counter to it. Supernova isn't as overpowered as you keep daydreaming it is. And yes, Power Link does make you "hit hard", especially if you have Wyldfire, because 1) you can spam it 2) you can hit with a powerful spell right after (Thanks to Wyldfire it does more damage) and 3) it does great damage itself.

Most Balances spam Doom to take out bubbles? Is that a joke? Okay, so my opponent uses a Balefrost and I'm at 300 health, I'd Doom? LOL that spell itself is also situational, it doesn't solve all the problems of the world.

While my opponent is Blade stacking, I do use Loremaster. The thing is, when I do use it, the blades cancel the Weakness out and still does more damage, unless I use a second Weakness then the damage is barely even more than having nothing on. Oh boy, I saved so much there. No, blade stacking is a lot more important than you think it is, and the thing that makes Balance wizards with Death Mastery Amulets lose the most is OHKO'ing them. I've seen Ice wizards doing it to even Gorman Sandshade. Storm wizards still win vs Balance wizards without a blade, and Fire wizards can use Efreet (If you think the Balance wizard is going to use Mana Burn every time you even get 6 pips, that's a complete joke).

Lol, I never said it took me a year or two to master Balance. It takes roughly that time for most Balance wizards to become good at the school, including some of the best PvP'ers around.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1556
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 9, 2014 wrote:
Ok lets go into this. They caught up in health a bit? No they haven't and the nature of health boosts in this game ensures that the gap in health between schools will continue to grow as we level. 3500 is anywhere between 1000-2000 points of difference from the other schools(that's a 40-60% health difference). If the Storm is using the diviners deep rolling set(the attack gear you are mentioning) they have no block except to one school and no resist except to fire and myth, no critical and no block. Do you know what they call a storm with no resist, no block, no critical and no pierce? A private because this set would never ever be used effectively in 1v1 lol. If you are using the Hades set as you are referencing: their block becomes less than 100 not this magical 200+ number that simply does not exist with the gear set up you are flaunting. Any storm walking into the arena wearing the gear you stated facing a wizard with a more balanced set with about 200 critical block and 300 critical will score less than 50% of his criticals against his opponent while the opponent will score more than 60% of his criticals against said storm. So come again how that is overpowered in 1v1? One lucky critical wildbolt (that has about a 15% chance of happening if they are wearing critical gear and you have 200+ block) is potentially a game ender and that is exactly in the nature of storm high risk for potential benefit. Look at the legions of sub-private lvl 95 storms and ask them how well the max critical gear bolt spam strategy is working against anyone who is not lvl 50.
Yes, their block is less than 100. But let's make a comparison here, with my stats. So, I have 81% damage boost. Compare that to Storm, 109% damage boost. Now, I have 342 critical rating. Since I use the Amulet of Divine Influence, let's be nice and give the Storm wizard that too. Okay, so let's say about 515 critical rating. This can be achieved with the Duelist's Fatal Razor, Blackrain Helm, Blackthunder Armor, Diviner's Deep Rolling Waders, Hades Storm wand, Duelist's Daredevil Ring, and some common pet stats that I've been seeing Storm wizards have. Now, let's compare block rating. He's going to have roughly 98 block rating, probably never going to block my criticals. Now, I have 285 block rating and I'm probably not going to block his criticals either. They both cancel each other out. Now, my damage boost is about 28% lower than his. Huge disadvantage. Now, let's move onto resist. I get 15% from mine, so it's 46%. His is going to be like 15%. With 19% armor pierce from me, he's not resisting me at all. Now, with his 23% armor pierce, I have 23 resist on him. Big difference as well. Problem is, that 28 damage difference and the 23 resist difference are going to cancel each other out once again. Now, our stats basically just cancel each other's out. I'm as easy as pie to defeat for him, and he's easy as pie to defeat for me. Now let's compare that to ONE lucky Insane Bolt. And trust me, this spell has been hitting constant 1000's like never before. Let's assume he criticals, and I don't block. 4103 damage, leaving me at the edge of my health. Now, in the first turn, I can probably only cast a Judgement as my most powerful spell (From second). Let's assume I critical as well. 3167 damage. Okay, so we're both at the verge of our health, so if he's first he's going to win. Now let's assume I'm first. I could Tower Shield but I'd die the next turn. So, let's say I used Loremaster with 2 power pips. 2631. Assuming Insane Bolt works and criticals, he'd do 3282 damage. Then, I could Scorpion and win the match.

Problem? I rely on getting very lucky to critical twice, while he almost always will. If I don't critical one of my hits, I probably lost the match. That's the uneven thing about Storm, and that's what makes Storm overpowered and beyond all other schools.

If he used the Hades boost with 12% armor pierce, the first Insane Bolt would kill me.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
IcicleWar on Apr 9, 2014 wrote:
Eric,

I would need more information before I could reply. I was looking at 90+, and only in
1v1 PvP. Looking at 2v2, etc, or looking at the Tournament data would skew the
information. Also, the displayed rank has been in question for almost a year now,
as far as I know, so I have learned to ingore it.
Ignoring the boards, your time alone in PvP, 1v1, should tell you that Storm is
designed very well at this point in time. Do I feel from hundreds of battles
at level 90/95 that storm is at the top of the 1v1 chart, yes I do.
Just my opinion, it can be countered and ignored, as you wish.
I was looking at LvL 95+(the level where all the current meta tools, particularly the shadow spells are available). I did not look at the tournament leaderboards but just the 2nd age PvP boards. Currently there is no way to differentiate between 1v1 or team data unfortunately and I agree that some of the displayed rank is undoubtedly unreliable. From my time in 1v1 and my experience with mechanics I can say that storm has definitely improved in prowess from the jadezilla era. That being said I do not see it as the top PvP school. It simply does not have the variety of tools available to other schools and I am ok with that as Storm comes with it's own set of unique tools and it's own playstyle. From what I have seen the top school at this juncture is balance simply because it has the very best tools to thrive in this meta. This does not make it overpowered, but simply a school that happened to be given the right tools at the right time.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
PvP King on Apr 9, 2014 wrote:
Lol, so you're saying I don't know how to use my own spells? I'm probably better at PvP than most, because that's what my record so far is telling me. I can't "spam" Mana Burn because sorry, rank 2000+ PvP has opponents that know what they're doing.

Yes, blades are needed to hit hard, unless you rely on critical rating. Blades make all the difference for PvP matches, especially on damage over time spells.

No, LOL, one Infallible isn't better than 2 different blades AT ALL. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Cast a 35% blade, a 45% blade, and you don't even need Infallible. Plus with the already around 16-17% armor pierce most have, Infallible is more than you even need anyways, unless the opponent is a Jade (They do exist, I've fought this death Jade named Steven multiple times who uses Cloaked Bad Juju's and a Balance Mastery Amulet, making it nearly impossible to beat).

Blades are popular still, if you haven't noticed. Storm wizards obviously don't use them because 2 Wild Bolts in a row are better than one with a Stormblade, however other schools like Fire/Myth/Ice/Death/Life still use blades because it's 35-50% extra damage boost, which is worth using.

Shrike is barely used in the higher ranks of PvP. Anybody who uses Shrike there is bound to lose the match unless they're on the verge of winning from first. Most Warlords that you see pack blades in their decks instead of Infallible and keep a high rank of global spells to add to those. That's their way of saying "I don't need Infallible".

Oh really? Tower Shields are -0% after using Shrike? Thanks for stating the obvious, I couldn't tell. Like I said, Shrike is the worst spell to use in high ranks of PvP. Get over it.

Casting minions do stall the opponent's pips, including Balance's. If you didn't know that, then don't even act like you know anything about PvP. If you use a minion, the Balance wizard will go for it (it's common sense), letting you save pips and avoid mana burn. That was my point. Sorry you don't read anything to understand.

Like I've said before, your argument on Balance being overpowered is completely pointless. No structure to the point, no explaining how it's overpowered, you just think about Balance using the spells. What about other schools using a DoT, Shrike, then hitting? You're not only piercing through shields but on resist too that way. Balance however, will only pierce the Tower Shield and not resist. The spell benefits all schools equally. Seems like you're too unexperienced to use your own spell properly.
I never said one infallible is better than two different blades so stop taking words out of my mouth. In fact, in some cases one infallible can be better than two different blades if you actually use infallible correctly. It takes two turns to use two blades and one turn to use one infallible. If you're spamming attacks (which is pretty popular nowadays) then infallible is better than two blades in most cases. You probably had a difficult time figuring out that shrike makes a tower shield 0% considering you complaining about shields when others still have to deal with them even with shrike. Casting minions uses your OWN pips. Minions are rarely used anymore because they die too easily with all the critical now and they're not needed as much. Your point about minions is completely irrelevant to balance being op or underpowered considering the fact EVERYONE of ALL SCHOOLS will go after the minion. Stop telling me these "problems" balance has to deal with when all the other schools have to also. Like I said before, it's difficult for a person of any school but balance to pierce their opponents resist even with shrike since they have SCHOOL SHIELDS. If it's so difficult to remember that other schools have school shields then it must mean it's a problem you never have to deal with (pretty obvious considering the fact you're balance). LOL that's a good excuse for claiming balance is underpowered. The only inexperienced one here is the only person here who thinks shrike takes all the other schools worries away. The only inexperienced one here thinks minions are a problem for balances. The only inexperienced one here doesn't know how to use his own auras properly to make them useful. It's funny how you tell me that I am inexperienced with my spells when you haven't even stated how I am or what I am doing wrong with my spells.

Mastermind
Jan 23, 2011
318
PvP King on Apr 9, 2014 wrote:
I'm saying there's a counter to it. Supernova isn't as overpowered as you keep daydreaming it is. And yes, Power Link does make you "hit hard", especially if you have Wyldfire, because 1) you can spam it 2) you can hit with a powerful spell right after (Thanks to Wyldfire it does more damage) and 3) it does great damage itself.

Most Balances spam Doom to take out bubbles? Is that a joke? Okay, so my opponent uses a Balefrost and I'm at 300 health, I'd Doom? LOL that spell itself is also situational, it doesn't solve all the problems of the world.

While my opponent is Blade stacking, I do use Loremaster. The thing is, when I do use it, the blades cancel the Weakness out and still does more damage, unless I use a second Weakness then the damage is barely even more than having nothing on. Oh boy, I saved so much there. No, blade stacking is a lot more important than you think it is, and the thing that makes Balance wizards with Death Mastery Amulets lose the most is OHKO'ing them. I've seen Ice wizards doing it to even Gorman Sandshade. Storm wizards still win vs Balance wizards without a blade, and Fire wizards can use Efreet (If you think the Balance wizard is going to use Mana Burn every time you even get 6 pips, that's a complete joke).

Lol, I never said it took me a year or two to master Balance. It takes roughly that time for most Balance wizards to become good at the school, including some of the best PvP'ers around.
Last I checked, power link can be spammed just as easily as loremaster. In a situation of having 300 health left you wouldn't doom (pretty obvious), but at full health or near max they would when their opponent has 300 health (pretty obvious). The blades don't "cancel the weaknesses." They make up for it but don't "cancel it." Last I checked blades don't remove weaknesses (pretty obvious). Every turn you loremaster, you hit hard, black mantle, and weakness. Every turn you blade is just a turn used for making up for a little more of the weakness. Who cares about how long YOU believe it takes balance to become good. I don't care and I bet no one else does either because it's irrelevant to this topic. Loremaster allows you to spam damage, weaknesses, and black mantles. That -35% accuracy and that -20% weakness does a lot more good than your tiny brain realizes. It's also funny how you tell me supernova isn't as op as I think and have nothing to back it up. I would much rather see what you have to say about supernova than this other stuff you're telling me. Oh but wait you're only reason for saying it's not op is because it's accuracy is low (which can easily be enchanted by extraordinary and unstoppable) and because other schools don't need it. Just because you can't use infallible properly does not make it as useless and unneeded as you think.

Defender
Jul 26, 2009
169
I would say balance is hard to balance. It just happens to fit under the meta currently, Similar to how ice did.

Mana burn > You control if this is an effective use of pips. It has high amounts of counter play. The spell under the current meta? Healthy.

Super nova > Don't use an aura. Its simple, again 100% Controlled by you.

Balance is weak to Dots, And bubbles. If they fight with doom they stunt healing and can be Bursted down rather fast. Manaburns Unreliable int he arena and not efficient per pip. It becomes effecient when you don't "Trade hits" When the balance uses this spell. Thus, Your responsible for not countering a tool.

I like to carry balance dispels, On all my wizards, And use them to fend off blades / Reshuffles / Weaknesses and to counter these spells. I used to do this with fire and efreet..... Ice i would earth over and over.... Its just a matter of counter playing their strategy.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
772
PvP King on Apr 9, 2014 wrote:
Yes, their block is less than 100. But let's make a comparison here, with my stats. So, I have 81% damage boost. Compare that to Storm, 109% damage boost. Now, I have 342 critical rating. Since I use the Amulet of Divine Influence, let's be nice and give the Storm wizard that too. Okay, so let's say about 515 critical rating. This can be achieved with the Duelist's Fatal Razor, Blackrain Helm, Blackthunder Armor, Diviner's Deep Rolling Waders, Hades Storm wand, Duelist's Daredevil Ring, and some common pet stats that I've been seeing Storm wizards have. Now, let's compare block rating. He's going to have roughly 98 block rating, probably never going to block my criticals. Now, I have 285 block rating and I'm probably not going to block his criticals either. They both cancel each other out. Now, my damage boost is about 28% lower than his. Huge disadvantage. Now, let's move onto resist. I get 15% from mine, so it's 46%. His is going to be like 15%. With 19% armor pierce from me, he's not resisting me at all. Now, with his 23% armor pierce, I have 23 resist on him. Big difference as well. Problem is, that 28 damage difference and the 23 resist difference are going to cancel each other out once again. Now, our stats basically just cancel each other's out. I'm as easy as pie to defeat for him, and he's easy as pie to defeat for me. Now let's compare that to ONE lucky Insane Bolt. And trust me, this spell has been hitting constant 1000's like never before. Let's assume he criticals, and I don't block. 4103 damage, leaving me at the edge of my health. Now, in the first turn, I can probably only cast a Judgement as my most powerful spell (From second). Let's assume I critical as well. 3167 damage. Okay, so we're both at the verge of our health, so if he's first he's going to win. Now let's assume I'm first. I could Tower Shield but I'd die the next turn. So, let's say I used Loremaster with 2 power pips. 2631. Assuming Insane Bolt works and criticals, he'd do 3282 damage. Then, I could Scorpion and win the match.

Problem? I rely on getting very lucky to critical twice, while he almost always will. If I don't critical one of my hits, I probably lost the match. That's the uneven thing about Storm, and that's what makes Storm overpowered and beyond all other schools.

If he used the Hades boost with 12% armor pierce, the first Insane Bolt would kill me.
Ok let us go into this comparison with the stats you are giving me. We will use lump sum and the lvl 60 crit/block ratios for ease of calculation(Note, the exact numbers will be different but the ratio of successful criticals bypassing block will be the same assuming no great change based on the number of pieces of gear. If you want exact stats, put in the storm wizards pet critical boosts and his block boosts from each piece of gear and your gear and each piece of critical and block boost so I can run it in the duelist 101 calculator)

-Balance Stats
Now with a 364 critical rating you have about 68%(364/5) critical chance, the storm with a 98 block has about 25%(98/4) block chance. Using this you will bypass the storm's block successfully 63% of the time.
-Storm Stats
Now with a 515 critical rating he has 103%(515/5) critical chance, the balance with 285 block has about a 71%(285/4) block chance. Using this the storm will bypass your block successfully 31% of the time.
-Advantage: Balance

Using the resist to damage boost mechanics along with the pierce number given
-Balance Attacks will do 78% damage with no resist meaning in total all balance attacks have a 78% damage boost.[(1+1*0.78)-((1+0.78) * 0.0))]
-Storm attacks will deal 109% damage with 23% resist meaning in total all storm attacks have a 61% damage boost.[(1+1*1.09)-((1+1.09) * 0.23))]
-Advantage: Balance

Now going in to the scenario using the numbers the math gave us,
-The storm uses insane bolt which will deal 2053 damage at base to you. He criticals, has a 20% chance to kill himself and has a 31% chance to go through your block. Total chance to not kill himself and go through your block: 25%
-Now your judgement from second will deal 1558 at base to him. You have a 68% chance to critical and a 63% chance to go through his block. Total chance for you to successfully critical on him and go through his block: 43%
-Advantage: Balance

So do tell me again how storm is overpowered when doing the math with the very statistics you provided shows Balance with a very clear advantage? Even without doing any math do you not see the problem with your argument where balance can kill storm with 2 normal spells wheras storm has to rely on the chance of self kill spell(Insane Bolt) or the 66% chance to do below dpp damage spell(wildbolt) to do the same?

Explorer
Oct 10, 2010
92
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 11, 2014 wrote:
Ok let us go into this comparison with the stats you are giving me. We will use lump sum and the lvl 60 crit/block ratios for ease of calculation(Note, the exact numbers will be different but the ratio of successful criticals bypassing block will be the same assuming no great change based on the number of pieces of gear. If you want exact stats, put in the storm wizards pet critical boosts and his block boosts from each piece of gear and your gear and each piece of critical and block boost so I can run it in the duelist 101 calculator)

-Balance Stats
Now with a 364 critical rating you have about 68%(364/5) critical chance, the storm with a 98 block has about 25%(98/4) block chance. Using this you will bypass the storm's block successfully 63% of the time.
-Storm Stats
Now with a 515 critical rating he has 103%(515/5) critical chance, the balance with 285 block has about a 71%(285/4) block chance. Using this the storm will bypass your block successfully 31% of the time.
-Advantage: Balance

Using the resist to damage boost mechanics along with the pierce number given
-Balance Attacks will do 78% damage with no resist meaning in total all balance attacks have a 78% damage boost.[(1+1*0.78)-((1+0.78) * 0.0))]
-Storm attacks will deal 109% damage with 23% resist meaning in total all storm attacks have a 61% damage boost.[(1+1*1.09)-((1+1.09) * 0.23))]
-Advantage: Balance

Now going in to the scenario using the numbers the math gave us,
-The storm uses insane bolt which will deal 2053 damage at base to you. He criticals, has a 20% chance to kill himself and has a 31% chance to go through your block. Total chance to not kill himself and go through your block: 25%
-Now your judgement from second will deal 1558 at base to him. You have a 68% chance to critical and a 63% chance to go through his block. Total chance for you to successfully critical on him and go through his block: 43%
-Advantage: Balance

So do tell me again how storm is overpowered when doing the math with the very statistics you provided shows Balance with a very clear advantage? Even without doing any math do you not see the problem with your argument where balance can kill storm with 2 normal spells wheras storm has to rely on the chance of self kill spell(Insane Bolt) or the 66% chance to do below dpp damage spell(wildbolt) to do the same?
Hi Eric,

Interesting rebuttal, and the math seems solid to me.
However, I would like to point out, the first section misses the actual
damage done, which may not put Balance in the advantage.
The last section does not do a comparison of the number of rounds it takes to
cast each spell. Although you did address the posting quite well, I just wanted to
address these two items.
From my point of view, even if Balance has an advantage, the advantage is lost
in how fast Storm can attack. The current level 95 PvP favors a player that can
attack with extreme speed, imo.