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Ranked pvp is seriusly broken

AuthorMessage
Hero
Nov 22, 2010
749
Back when ranked pvp was implimented, the game was vastly different.

With all the new spells, new levels, new equpiment - ranked is broken. Broken very badly.

here's an example of one problem:

Level 60 wizards with spells that do incredible damage, and who get nothing but power pips every round - and who are privates - are matched against level 16 mages that are warlords. Even though the level 16 has full commander gear, unless the level 60 is a total fool, there's no contest.

Here's another example:

A level 60 private partners with a low level - usually someone around level 5 or so - and the low level makes the match. The ensures that they will get a couple of people to play that are fairly low level but probably higher rank.

The level 60 then proceeds to waste the other team with some hit all attack that does 5 times as much damage without much boosting than either of the opposing team members have in health.

Here's another example:

Kraken is available to everyone that can go into the library. Cards of all kinds that can do massive damage are available in the bazaar. All you have to be is level 2, to go to the bazaar and buy them.

In addition, gift cards now have pets such as burnzilla, and your level 1 mage can equip those pets - and since the card is available at baby, you don't have to train the pet to use it.

So a level 1 or 2 gets those cards or that pet, and enters the arena. The are matched up with an innocent level 5 or 6 mage that thinks they are going to get a fair game. They pass a couple times to get 4 pips (for kraken) or a few more for burnzilla, while the innocent player on the other side is hitting them with blood bats or storm snakes - the play the massive damage card.

No contest - the other guy looses.

highly unfair.

======

As there are no rules, and the only things you can do are those things the code doesn't allow, abuses like the above are rife. it drives most players to do unfair things themselves, or give up pvp entirely.

And, at the same time, those people who try to give themselves enough of an advantage to beat the cheaters by doing stuff such as enchanting their attacks get called noob and other nasty names by the chaters when they manage to actually win.
============

if KI really wants ranked PVP to be this way - rife with unfair, cheating play, unsportsman like conduct, nasty players and a wild-west, anything goes atmosphere - fine. That's what we have.

But if KI wants ranked PVP to be a place where players can sit down with each other and play fair games, and everyone have a fair chance to win based - not on tricks, gimicks and crowns, but on skill - they need to completely redesign it.

And soon.

Armiger
Mar 18, 2009
2381
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
But if KI wants ranked PVP to be a place where players can sit down with each other and play fair games, and everyone have a fair chance to win based - not on tricks, gimicks and crowns, but on skill - they need to completely redesign it.

And soon.


Or completely get rid of it.

I like PvP for the challenge I just don't get from the Waterworks, but PvP involves way too many variables to accomodate every single player out there. PvP really is like it or leave it.

Skill is a hard thing to articulate in a turn based game like Wizard101 since it involves the, "luck of the draw" and getting the right card in the right turn. Aside from your Crowns comment, the tricks and gimmicks is considered skill by some.

Me personally, I could care less about Knight, Commander, or Warlord titles. It's just prestige and bragging at the end of the day. However, the chance to play a real person with "outside the box" thinking is the real reward for me.


Armiger
May 10, 2010
2081
The problem here is, some care about rank and some don't.

Now, some want the gear associated with the rank, but that gear is only useful to characters below the grandmaster level.

Since there is no, level limit on commander gear, some like to get it on very low level characters, so that they can fight mid level players and have a challenge.

However, with the new match and scoring system, these warlords are now facing legendary wizards!!!

Yeah, a 10 to 20 level difference is one thing, but when you are facing someone that can be 50 levels above you, that is a bit too far.


Defender
Apr 01, 2011
154
There's no new 'match' system, Darth, there's a new score system where wizards are being assigned a rating more closely befitting their level of skill. Those rating 77 legends are actually quite bad fighters. If they were down-ranking legends, they would be fleeing from you and you would not be complaining here. They are beat quite easily with adept ice in 1v1 without a shred of Commander gear. Too bad your adept is death - because that's the second weakest school at adept level.

There isn't any need to fix a scoring fix that is doing its job - assigning a rating that perfectly describes the fighter you are against. I think your time would be significantly better (more constructively) spent arguing for critical block gear for lower levels.

Survivor
Jan 31, 2009
19
As a long time player of Wizard 101 and an avid PvPer, it appears to me that KI is just not taking a good look at PvP, match ups, points, gear, etc. There has always been low levels teaming with high levels to rank. Either it is the high level "helping" the lower level rank and gear, or it is the low level helping his higher level friend. That has now continued into the release of CL, the additional problem now is the critical. Ok, so train in conviction, super, lets go to Diego, spend that point (if you have the point to spare that is) and load those convictions. We all know cards don't magically appear when we want/need them, but more over, conviction is failing with the high critical rates from the WW gear. Now, we're not only faced with this problem, but the point system. This happened earlier this morning in a 2v2, we're fire/life, under lvl 20, commander and captain. Our opponents are lvl 1 life, rank 75, lvl 60 myth captain, and they go first. What is the lvl 1 there to do - break shields, give treasure blades, put up bubbles. Humungofrog goes critical, we're defeated, and it's gg, loss of 26 points. Ok, let's just try a 1v1 so we don't get this type of team, sad I can't team with my friends to PvP, isn't part of the game enjoyment playing with friends? Use my level 5 fire commander, go 2nd against an adept death, can't pull that tower shield from robe or one from side, bladed trapped pirate and it's gg again, 21 points lost. Let's not dispair, do 1 more match, win this one, going 2nd against an adept life, and I get, WOW 2 points! So just this morning, I'm down 45 points. If the points are to be set that I gain somewhere between 2 to maybe 10, that's fine, but why is a level 5 (or any other level for that matter when facing opponents 20, 30 or more levels above them) losing 20 or more points going against levels like adept up to legendary? Why is KI condoning kids using their friends levels, either the low level using the higher, or the higher using the lower, to gain rank? Are games not also to teach morals of fair play and good sportsmanship? If practice was set up where you can put in levels, how is it that ranked can't be programmed similarly? There are arenas in different worlds, why can't these arenas be broken down by levels? Example of this: lvl 1 - lvl 10, wizard city, lvl 11 - lvl 25, krok, lvl 27 - lvl 39, marley, lvl 40 - 50, moo, and all above lvl 50 that can crit, ds. If gear can include pips, power, resist, etc., why can it not include critical block, or the new athame and ring could have had the critical block as well as stun block. KI I'm guessing your main focus is on the story line and questing, but for many of us that have done that, have multiple accounts, want to play with friends in PvP, I'm sorry, but your PvP system, imho, is broken.

Adherent
May 20, 2010
2899
Squire
Jan 05, 2010
547
A solution to this is to limit the level gap between opponents to 20 levels so a level 1 could onnly team up with a level 21, and a legend could not team up with lower than a level 40. This would completely fix this matching system/critical exploit but would definitely dampen the effects.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
552
travisAk wrote:
A solution to this is to limit the level gap between opponents to 20 levels so a level 1 could onnly team up with a level 21, and a legend could not team up with lower than a level 40. This would completely fix this matching system/critical exploit but would definitely dampen the effects.


I like this Idea, just so as long as it doesn't apply to Practice, a friend i pvp with is level 35 lol.

Historian
May 01, 2010
665
@travisAK
good idea

@the rest of the people
why doesnt anybody look beyond the one way mirror? what would happen, if you werent that good at pvp, need experience in it, so you tried it out? all the while you are put up against really good pvpers, and they smoke you? if they did make pvp fair (in your eyes) then if they got pawned by a warlord, they would keep losing points. until they decide to quit. its based on rank, experience in the arena, not level. yes, it may be a little iritating for the low level high ranks, but, if you were private again, had no experience in the arena, and you were put up against people lower level than you, but higher rank, you lost repeatedly, and you quit from annoyance, would your opinion be changed (mine was, yes, this happened to me about magus)
remember: getting to warlord is no easy feat.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
547
slammer111 wrote:
@travisAK
good idea

@the rest of the people
why doesnt anybody look beyond the one way mirror? what would happen, if you werent that good at pvp, need experience in it, so you tried it out? all the while you are put up against really good pvpers, and they smoke you? if they did make pvp fair (in your eyes) then if they got pawned by a warlord, they would keep losing points. until they decide to quit. its based on rank, experience in the arena, not level. yes, it may be a little iritating for the low level high ranks, but, if you were private again, had no experience in the arena, and you were put up against people lower level than you, but higher rank, you lost repeatedly, and you quit from annoyance, would your opinion be changed (mine was, yes, this happened to me about magus)
remember: getting to warlord is no easy feat.
Exactly... You see when they altered the point system to award more points based on level it threw the matching process way out of whack. An inexperienced legend would enter the arena for the first time at private, there they would be continuously lose 30 points a try fighting against magus warlords until they either quit completely or resort to one of these matching system exploits to rank up. The sheer amount of extremely low ranked (some under 100) high level individuals in arena was clear proof something had to be done. Level 60 players with critical were punched down into all levels of pvp essentially destroying pVp under magus. My low level character just received 0 points for beating a legend from second position and I am fine with that, why?.. Because I tasted a rank point system based on level and it almost choked me out of pvp. Like slammer said, these magus wizards that accept the challenge of beating someone with half their level should accept the challenge of a FAIR point system that distributes points through the rank of the character and not level. My fire wizard (10) made warlord 61-1 under this system, it's all how you play your cards and choose and prepare your equipment. Alternatively you could just come to the forums to Try to make getting to warlord easier by complaining, which is probably what most of you will choose, just remember it is possible. just want to say I am proud to play wizard 101 again and proud to be a low level warlord.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
"There has always been low levels teaming with high levels to rank."

The reason I don't either like to play or actually play ranked PvP is because ranked teams are crafted, and or totally controlled by a single player. I like to play in random teams against random teams, not in a random team against a crafted team. Your complaint upon ranking and why ranked PvP is broken is this same problem, Wizard101 favors crafted teams which also seems to be ruder and more abusivive players. I personally find non ranked PvP to be way more fun than ranked.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
547
]I want to add that I have been facing people closer to my level and experience since the wysteria update. If a change has not been made then the point system seems to be keeping things in balance, just go check 1vs1 duel list for evidence of this. Although level rank mismatches will still occur they will be less frequent. There are alot less complaints about it on these boards. I'll say it once again, you can level your character to legend without stepping into the arena once and when you do you will find that with the right preparation a level 5 warlord can obliterate your legend private.!? How did this happen?, you ask yourself. Because RANK, not level, is a true testament of experience in the arena and the point system should and does reflect that. A private legend has little to no chance of beating a magus warlord from the start.

Delver
Apr 12, 2011
248
pvp is beyond repair ive seen a lvl 22 life team up with lvl 60 ice the low lvl talked trash and shielded while the ice attacked the low lvl also healed
i was doing this with lvl 46 storm friend i am fire we would have won but he had to go and they used so many dang shields

Survivor
Jan 21, 2010
19
So much happened in so little time. PvP used to be fun until people found ways to exploit it thus ruining the fun for everyone else.

1. The point system is practically broken.
Ex. My friend(33 Myth Warlord) and I(28 Life Warlord) got served against a Lvl 30 and 70 and we both lost 30 points. Yet when we barely beat a 70 and a 15 next match, we only get 2 points.

2.Higher Lvl wizards are using lower leveled wizards to find easy matches and rank up easier. There are probably thousands of Lvl 70 Warlords that can't even win a fair fight.

3. Many people are complaining that one school has significant advantages over the others. This isn't necessarily true but it does seem like it.
Ex. Storm is overpowered (high attack power and critical rating). Yeah, but they have less health and resist. Life keeps spamming heals. Use Doom and Gloom, Entangle or Infection.

4.People also want certain spells removed or nerfed.
Perfect example, bolt. It used to be 1000 damage and 10% accuracy.
Now it is 10/100/1000 and more accurate, but tends to hit 10 or 100. To most Diviners, it is now a piece of garbage. (With the exception of spammers.)

5. Treasure cards also appear to be a problem. But how else would a Level 30 Warlord stand a chance against a DECENT Lvl 70? Use of treasure cards varies upon the situation.

Some will say "Life stinks, deal with it." or "Just quit PvPing then." because they are the ones exploiting the game.
Some will continue on to complain about something else because they are the people who can't take losing.

This has to be addressed, one way or another.

In my opinion, I find this similar to Call of Duty. Wizard101 is too noob friendly.

Hero
Jun 08, 2009
794
Tintus wrote:
So much happened in so little time. PvP used to be fun until people found ways to exploit it thus ruining the fun for everyone else.
Reply: Any game, for any age group, with any theme, is going to be exploited.

1. The point system is practically broken.
Ex. My friend(33 Myth Warlord) and I(28 Life Warlord) got served against a Lvl 30 and 70 and we both lost 30 points. Yet when we barely beat a 70 and a 15 next match, we only get 2 points.
Reply: While the logic probably entails the 15-level difference between the two variable wizards, this does sound a bit mismatched.

2.Higher Lvl wizards are using lower leveled wizards to find easy matches and rank up easier. There are probably thousands of Lvl 70 Warlords that can't even win a fair fight.
Reply: Like I said above about exploits, though I agree with you. Many wizards are bad duelists, and hide it behind masks of the "Noob Magnet" exploit. I don't forsee a fix soon in our future, though I do hope for one.

3. Many people are complaining that one school has significant advantages over the others. This isn't necessarily true but it does seem like it.
Ex. Storm is overpowered (high attack power and critical rating). Yeah, but they have less health and resist. Life keeps spamming heals. Use Doom and Gloom, Entangle or Infection.
Reply: In a way, both sides are right. Schools do have significant advantages, only they are balanced out by their drawbacks.

4.People also want certain spells removed or nerfed.
Perfect example, bolt. It used to be 1000 damage and 10% accuracy.
Now it is 10/100/1000 and more accurate, but tends to hit 10 or 100. To most Diviners, it is now a piece of garbage. (With the exception of spammers.)
Reply: For the fact of what people want, well, that is unavoidable. But I make use of Bolt for shield clearing uses and last ditch attempts for victory.

5. Treasure cards also appear to be a problem. But how else would a Level 30 Warlord stand a chance against a DECENT Lvl 70? Use of treasure cards varies upon the situation.
Reply: I am aware of the fact that many player think Treasure Cards "decrease skill" or "kill without honor or skill". In reality, it takes just as much skill to win with Treasure Cards as it does to win without them. Timing them right and usng them well factor heavily into their usage.

Some will say "Life stinks, deal with it." or "Just quit PvPing then." because they are the ones exploiting the game.
Some will continue on to complain about something else because they are the people who can't take losing.
Reply: BRAVO!

This has to be addressed, one way or another.
Reply: Could be harder then it looks, it's a lose-lose situation for Kingsisle. Change PvP and the exploiters complain. Keep it as is and the rest complain. This may seem like an easy deision, but both sides are paying customers.

In my opinion, I find this similar to Call of Duty. Wizard101 is too noob friendly.
Reply: I wouldn't know as I don't play CoD, but there is a line between "noob-friendly" and user-friendly.

All comments in above quote.

Explorer
Jul 18, 2009
75
I couldn't agree more, it's just so contradicting and kind of a mess.

@jackflame

Survivor
Aug 23, 2011
19
Hi Tintus,

I agree that puppet teams aren't getting matched fairly (eg. Level 1 & 70 teams). I post a rather argument on how to mitigate them by apply a 50% penalty to teams based on how far apart in Level/Rank each player is from one another.

I'd love to get some traction on this, as I've lost (with my level 22 character) half of my 2v2 rank matches to puppet teams. I don't propose to ban them, just match them to a more appropriately level/rank team, ie. a fair match.

If you want to read it, I post it under:
2v2 (and other multi Rank) Pairing Exploit

(An example of how this would work is a Level 70 & 1 Private team that might now get faced with two Level 36's would, if my formula is adopted, be more likely to get matched against two level 44's.)

Survivor
Jun 14, 2009
11
i am sick and tired of the pvp in this game its so unbalanced for death all the other schools can counter your poison or weaken you ro kill you at the start of the dule how is that fare myth just stun you or spam eaath quake storm spams their bolts and temp life spams tringe that kils poison with 0 cost fire and their gene ice with their massive critical and blacking as well as resistance then snow angle you then balance just judge you and kill you on the first turn what do they have agenst death i know everyone is like oh death has this and death has that yea ok but death can easly get blocked and our only few good spells are 8 to 9 pips and even then can be countered easy any one can get a tringe treasure just to stop any burn effect or they spam debuffs it was impossable to get to warlord then in 2 matched your back to 700 rank all because all the other schools are Op it dosent help with the mastery amulets and treasure cards pvp should be how well you play your school and your 2nd school not oh i have a mastery amulet let me spam my treasure cards pvp should require skill now dumb luck or i can spam this spell then you fight a guy who does a boost to you when your not even polymorphed i mean how does that even happen this game needs a pvp remake so its fare for all schools everyone is balanced no treasure and i dont want to hear oh then treasure are useless because u can use them on bosses or have a pvp with treasure as a option atleast a few of us want to earm our warlord without having such over powered and nooby tactics and this lack of aoe for death also needs to be fixed crow is way to underpowered compaired to other schools oh yea it can heal you well ok but let me see u can stun me burn me and hit me harder then my crows oh yay 400 damage that you can counter and oh let me storm lord you ot tempist you oh i dont want a death on my team they stink their Aoe is aweful i hear it all the time and yet i hear people clam its op not even close compaired to otherschools who have a ton of aoe like i said short end of the stick

Champion
Feb 29, 2012
488
Darkwolf2750 wrote:
i am sick and tired of the pvp in this game its so unbalanced for death all the other schools can counter your poison or weaken you ro kill you at the start of the dule how is that fare myth just stun you or spam eaath quake storm spams their bolts and temp life spams tringe that kils poison with 0 cost fire and their gene ice with their massive critical and blacking as well as resistance then snow angle you then balance just judge you and kill you on the first turn what do they have agenst death i know everyone is like oh death has this and death has that yea ok but death can easly get blocked and our only few good spells are 8 to 9 pips and even then can be countered easy any one can get a tringe treasure just to stop any burn effect or they spam debuffs it was impossable to get to warlord then in 2 matched your back to 700 rank all because all the other schools are Op it dosent help with the mastery amulets and treasure cards pvp should be how well you play your school and your 2nd school not oh i have a mastery amulet let me spam my treasure cards pvp should require skill now dumb luck or i can spam this spell then you fight a guy who does a boost to you when your not even polymorphed i mean how does that even happen this game needs a pvp remake so its fare for all schools everyone is balanced no treasure and i dont want to hear oh then treasure are useless because u can use them on bosses or have a pvp with treasure as a option atleast a few of us want to earm our warlord without having such over powered and nooby tactics and this lack of aoe for death also needs to be fixed crow is way to underpowered compaired to other schools oh yea it can heal you well ok but let me see u can stun me burn me and hit me harder then my crows oh yay 400 damage that you can counter and oh let me storm lord you ot tempist you oh i dont want a death on my team they stink their Aoe is aweful i hear it all the time and yet i hear people clam its op not even close compaired to otherschools who have a ton of aoe like i said short end of the stick


If you knew about Wild Bolt you wouldn't complain. It has a 33.33 percent chance to actually hit and then if it does you have to wait for another to show up.

Next topic. You forget, every school has a weakness. Low health, low damage, low accuracy etc. If you can't figure out how to beat a certain school, don't PvP.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
death needs full power on its enhancement cards, its quite clear the only reason death is given 50% rather than 100% is cause Wizard101 staff fail at mathematics

Mastermind
Jun 10, 2011
328
Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
seasnake wrote:
death needs full power on its enhancement cards, its quite clear the only reason death is given 50% rather than 100% is cause Wizard101 staff fail at mathematics


Actually KI's math for the drain enhancements are perfectly correct.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
FatesKin wrote:
seasnake wrote:
death needs full power on its enhancement cards, its quite clear the only reason death is given 50% rather than 100% is cause Wizard101 staff fail at mathematics


Actually KI's math for the drain enhancements are perfectly correct.


lol, even on the message boards everyone tends to state that death's attacks are too weak and those who don't often want to keep death down to make their own schools stronger than death in the comparison

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
seasnake wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
seasnake wrote:
death needs full power on its enhancement cards, its quite clear the only reason death is given 50% rather than 100% is cause Wizard101 staff fail at mathematics


Actually KI's math for the drain enhancements are perfectly correct.


lol, even on the message boards everyone tends to state that death's attacks are too weak and those who don't often want to keep death down to make their own schools stronger than death in the comparison


What "everyone says" has no impact on the actual math of the spells. The facts don;'t change simply because a group of people thinks that deaths spells are too weak. Also, the math is unbiased, it has very little with wanting to make x school stronger than death by comparison.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2926
...I had no idea that as a corporal, and even as a private, that I'd be facing Knights and Warlords in full PvP and crowns gear with SPUD pets who give them critical and 30% resist.

That's broken~ my level 17 Fire wizard does not have access to block or tons of power pips, and it's quite annoying to be standing across from some guy my level who has 6 power pips when I only have 2 regular ones. I thought I'd give this a chance, but that fight just proved to me that those of us who refuse to spend money on PvP will never rank up.

Also, the taunting needs to stop. I lost (by a hair) to some guy, who ended our duel with "HAHAHAHA"~ fortunately, I'm an adult and got over it, but what if I had been a 10-year-old kid who was new? I hope that there's a bug in the near future that sees this kid paired against my archmages... oh, what a beauty that would be!