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Final Word on Enchanted Treasure Card Trading

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Feb 21, 2009
46
If it is such a problem in arena then restrict the use of enchanted cards in arena only, its not fair that players cant exchange those cards any more especially when one has spent a lot of gold buying cards like tough/keen eyes to make them. If that is the case then I want a refund, plus KI did not post this change on the log in page so people did not get a fair warning unless they come onto this site and check every day for the changes that KI makes. Also KI we all know you want to make money but some of these changes and the cost to make pets etc etc is unreal and very dissapointing. :(
ProfessorGreyrose wrote:
The following message is from J. Todd Coleman, Director of Wizard101 at KingsIsle Entertainment.

"The trading of enchanted cards was never intended; it was an error on our part that players were able to use this system to gain access to spells they were never suppose to receive. Yes, this has been an issue in PvP, but that's really a minor part of the overall problem (as PvP is a relatively minor part of the overall W101 experience.)

Please understand that we went to great lengths to craft and balance the difficulty and "fun factor" of our game. We spent thousands of hours pouring over spreadsheets, implementing, testing, and then repeating that process until we got it right. We planned for players to have "easy" fights and "hard" fights. We planned on solo areas, and areas where we wanted them to ask other players for assistance, fostering social connections. As part of this process -- and to make each class feel special -- we created a handful of custom, unique spell that were restricted to each class. We wanted each player to feel like they could do something that other players could not. Each class was engineered to have areas of strength and weakness, so that the style of game play (and strategy) would different from one player to the next. We wanted to foster a sense of identity, to make the game interesting (and different) based on the path that the player chose to follow, and (of course) to make the game balanced across 300+ hours of gameplay.

After all that effort, we made a mistake, one which allowed player to use 50 gold enchantment cards to circumvent these class restriction. Oops! I wish this mistake had never been made in the first place; had the class restrictions been properly enforced from the beginning, players would have thought "well, that makes sense" and not given it another thought.

The problem is, this may seem like a minor issue, but it is not. This one oversight fundamentally dilutes the unique nature of each class. Replicating these spells creates a huge imbalance in our system, not just in PvP, but in the overall play cycle and in the experience of the game we spent so much time and energy crafting. If everyone can cast everything, what's the point of having classes at all? To borrow a phrase from The Incredibles, "When everyone's Super, then no one is." In my eyes, being able to mass produce a collection of class-restricted, high level spells for a trivial amount of gold falls pretty clearly into the category of stuff we should fix. And so, we are fixing it.

I certainly realize that you may not agree with this decision. Much like a parent sometimes the "right" decision is not necessarily the most popular one. In this case, I recognize that some people will be unhappy with this fix. But as the director of the game, I have to look out for the health of the game as a whole. It's my call to make, and I stand by my decision. You may not agree, but I do hope you will understand."

Historian
Jun 14, 2009
678
I am not certain if this has been clarified or not, since I did not read every post.

Only enchanted cards (those you make yourself using cards like tough) cannot be traded. You can still trade treasure cards that are found through fights, chest or brought at the bazaar. Not certain about crafting, since I don't do that.

I hope this helps some.

Survivor
Aug 28, 2009
44
oh my gosh kingsisle thank you SOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i mean seriously......

one time i was in ranked arena and then i saw this apprentice noob aganist me. i was thinking, wow this is sooooo easy! then when i started battling i killed her a little ( almost killed her! ) then she healed herself after that. i passed some rounds while she got ready like put storm blades on her and etc.

when i was about to kill her i fizzled, then it was her turn. she casted a WILD BOLT ON ME! of course, i died but IT IS AN ICE APPRENTICE! ICE IS THE LAMEST SCHOOL AND AN APPRENTICE IS JUST A NOOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

then when we finished the battle she yelled at me this:

HAHA YOU LOOSER YOU LOST BY A NOOB! :D

then she left. not only my feelings got hurt, i also lost my sergeant badge, which i worked very hard to get it.

Anna Battlecatcher Master of Ice Grandmaster

P. S. sorry i yelled at some parts i was just real MAD!


Survivor
Apr 13, 2010
29
ProfessorGreyrose wrote:
The following message is from J. Todd Coleman, Director of Wizard101 at KingsIsle Entertainment.

"The trading of enchanted cards was never intended; it was an error on our part that players were able to use this system to gain access to spells they were never suppose to receive. Yes, this has been an issue in PvP, but that's really a minor part of the overall problem (as PvP is a relatively minor part of the overall W101 experience.)

Please understand that we went to great lengths to craft and balance the difficulty and "fun factor" of our game. We spent thousands of hours pouring over spreadsheets, implementing, testing, and then repeating that process until we got it right. We planned for players to have "easy" fights and "hard" fights. We planned on solo areas, and areas where we wanted them to ask other players for assistance, fostering social connections. As part of this process -- and to make each class feel special -- we created a handful of custom, unique spell that were restricted to each class. We wanted each player to feel like they could do something that other players could not. Each class was engineered to have areas of strength and weakness, so that the style of game play (and strategy) would different from one player to the next. We wanted to foster a sense of identity, to make the game interesting (and different) based on the path that the player chose to follow, and (of course) to make the game balanced across 300+ hours of gameplay.

After all that effort, we made a mistake, one which allowed player to use 50 gold enchantment cards to circumvent these class restriction. Oops! I wish this mistake had never been made in the first place; had the class restrictions been properly enforced from the beginning, players would have thought "well, that makes sense" and not given it another thought.

The problem is, this may seem like a minor issue, but it is not. This one oversight fundamentally dilutes the unique nature of each class. Replicating these spells creates a huge imbalance in our system, not just in PvP, but in the overall play cycle and in the experience of the game we spent so much time and energy crafting. If everyone can cast everything, what's the point of having classes at all? To borrow a phrase from The Incredibles, "When everyone's Super, then no one is." In my eyes, being able to mass produce a collection of class-restricted, high level spells for a trivial amount of gold falls pretty clearly into the category of stuff we should fix. And so, we are fixing it.

I certainly realize that you may not agree with this decision. Much like a parent sometimes the "right" decision is not necessarily the most popular one. In this case, I recognize that some people will be unhappy with this fix. But as the director of the game, I have to look out for the health of the game as a whole. It's my call to make, and I stand by my decision. You may not agree, but I do hope you will understand."



I under stand all this but why did you make the un-usable in crafting.
You just added pet snacks the the high level snack need card.
All I do now is run around farming gold and reagents to make pet snacks.
Are you own by microsoft. you push a system that was loaded with bugs on all of you customer. Most of the bugs I saw reported in the test system.
But do you fix then No!! You push the system Live so everyone can suffer.
I The new area is ths bad I am giving up this game.

Defender
May 11, 2009
109
i like it, and all of you who hate the "idea", well here's the thing its not an idea, it is a problem that will be fixed, and no amount of crying will change that. i am sick of playing PvP now, because too many people use wildolts, who arent storm, or are using certain healing spells that arent life wizards. i also agree with the quote "When everyone's Super, no one is" by syndrome. so get ready for the change

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
all you ppl saying "thx ki!" clearly dont care about others. like me. and has it really never crossed anyone's mind that there were better ways to get rid of the "a-novice-used-bolt/triton/judgement/etc" problem? really? really.
(actually, one did - kudos, blizzardkid94! seriously)

you can, say, do one of the following:
-ban enchanted cards in the arena (blizzardkid94)
-ban all treasure cards in the arena
-impose level restrictions by groups of 5: someone who wants a lvl 38 spell must be at least lvl 35, want a lvl 28? get to 25.
-impose precise level restrictions
-drive up the cost of tough and keeneyes so much that its cheaper to get them from enemies

and you'll please so many more ppl, instead of just the "i-hate-novices-using-powerful-spells-in-pvp" group. like, you'll please the "i-just-want-to-trade-with-friends" group, and the "i-use-enchanted-cards-in-the-card-black-market" group. see? thats how you please people.

and whats the deal with pvp anyway? im gonna use an "in my eyes" so get ready. in my eyes, ppl who give that much of a hoot are a buncha sadists devoted to frying one another.

and mr director, sir (indicating slight contempt), why - WHY - did you not want to trade enchanted cards? and your "balance" thing: level restrictions would balance it, and provide incentive to level up. and since you have fewer characters than schools, thats a handful of spells that, unfairly, you never get to use. without enchanted card trading, that is. besides, its not like everyone can cast everything, as there are treasure card max numbers. plus, if a novice wants to use a wildbolt, really, why stop him? thats who he is.trust me: a novice who can get a wildbolt should give lessons on getting cards: its not easy to get friends in high places. he pretty much earned it. so now he needs to be a BAD example?

and your "if-everyones-super-no-one-is"? thats the POINT, that everyone be super. we're WIZARDS! we can bend mighty creatures to our WILL! heh heh heh heh... too late. everyones a super.

besides, we players probably outnumber faculty 2000 to one or more. we get a call too, all of us, "Venom-Tongue" FoxFyr included.

well, thats my message.

Survivor
Mar 04, 2009
8
It isn't about this taking away individuality it is allowing us to use more spells. I know some cards are supposed to be unique, but this just gives us more possible combination. Pretend you were trapped on a boss and couldn't get through and you were a death wizard, if your friend who is balance gives you a Judgment card to help you out, is that so bad? I agree that you should probably ban treasure cards in the arena, but this could really hurt some people that use enchanted treasure cards to help in standard battles. I just ask you to reconsider banning these cards from being traded and just ban them ( or all treasure cards) in the arena only. Also who ever agrees with what I said please type your own similar messages to help my ( and those who have said similar things) cause.

Survivor
Dec 13, 2009
23
Thanks SO MUCH for this change and the explaining!


Lauren Skyriver
lvl 50
Ice Wizard

Survivor
Mar 04, 2009
8
The thing I really hate about this is that the enchanted card Trading isn't the problem is PvP enchanted card MISUSE. I fully agree FoxFyr, Blizzardkid94, etc. that you should just ban enchanted cards in PvP ( or just treasure cards in general) not there trading! People actually use those cards in actual game play to help them out. Also it can make the higher level crafting for pet snack spell cards easier and cheaper so that we can use you new add-on to the game to its full extent and make it more enjoyable. It seems more that you want to make the game a bit harder on the players.

Explorer
Apr 12, 2010
61
I am agreeing to some of the complaints of certain posts that have been posting. But, I do have to say that really it is a good change. KI is helping people and also giving a challenge. Games can't all be the same. Some have to be unique and if it was the same, what would be the point of games anyway? I feel like the complainers are forgetting a sentence of the directors words. He said that it IS going to change. And thats that. Nothing else. It wont be stopped. If people want to quit the game, then go ahead. Quit. Then the people who wouldn't have to hear you will actually BE happy. And if you want to get all mad at me, then really go ahead. Make your point. And I AM certain that people are reading this right now and agreeing. May some decline my post, but most will agree.

Truly yours, Llewella.
-----------------------
Level 45 life wizard.
Soon to be a grandmaster.

Explorer
Apr 12, 2010
61
nikki2hip54 wrote:
I am agreeing to some of the complaints of certain posts that have been posting. But, I do have to say that really it is a good change. KI is helping people and also giving a challenge. Games can't all be the same. Some have to be unique and if it was the same, what would be the point of games anyway? I feel like the complainers are forgetting a sentence of the directors words. He said that it IS going to change. And thats that. Nothing else. It wont be stopped. If people want to quit the game, then go ahead. Quit. Then the people who wouldn't have to hear you will actually BE happy. And if you want to get all mad at me, then really go ahead. Make your point. And I AM certain that people are reading this right now and agreeing. May some decline my post, but most will agree.

Truly yours, Llewella.
-----------------------
Level 45 life wizard.
Soon to be a grandmaster.


PvP isn't the only problem. Who really needs treasure cards anyway? I certainly do not. People should stay in there level range area. And you can always use prisms anyway. I don't want to be rude on my post. So if you find that offensive, then sorry. I am just pointing out a view. lol

Survivor
Mar 14, 2009
4
You state:

The problem is, this may seem like a minor issue, but it is not. This one oversight fundamentally dilutes the unique nature of each class. Replicating these spells creates a huge imbalance in our system, not just in PvP, but in the overall play cycle and in the experience of the game we spent so much time and energy crafting. If everyone can cast everything, what's the point of having classes at all? To borrow a phrase from The Incredibles, "When everyone's Super, then no one is." In my eyes, being able to mass produce a collection of class-restricted, high level spells for a trivial amount of gold falls pretty clearly into the category of stuff we should fix. And so, we are fixing it.

My issue is not so much about the treasure cards, wether or not i agree or disagree, doesnt matter, my issue is:
If KI is so concerned about us sticking to our schools, why is it when i am in a battle with ANY enemy (not just bosses), they through out more spells from other classes than the class that it indicates.
ex: i fought a battle with two fires, with my death character, and i got hit with more death and balance spells than i did with fire.
If you are going to force the class restriction, again, i kinda agree with it to an extent, but when i fight a fire, and put up a fire shield i expect the fire sheild to be used at some point, so you shouldnt push on us what you are not willing to do yourself.

Survivor
Jan 18, 2010
10
Popman98 wrote:
sephiran7777 wrote:
i don't like this idea... in fact... i HATE this idea! i may just quit playing... I: i demand you fix it!


how about you go ahead and quit. if its really bothering you that much(wow) then plz just leave.

apparently you didnt even see what the director said. hes standing firm by his desicion, wether you like it or not. it will bring improvement to the game.

and by the way, no ones really that intimadated when you say" fix it or i quit."


I completely agree. I thank them for making this game much better!


Survivor
Apr 13, 2010
29
Please understand that we went to great lengths to craft and balance the difficulty and "fun factor" of our game. We spent thousands of hours pouring over spreadsheets, implementing, testing, and then repeating that process until we got it right. We planned for players to have "easy" fights and "hard" fights. We planned on solo areas, and areas where we wanted them to ask other players for assistance, fostering social connections. As part of this process -- and to make each class feel special -- we created a handful of custom, unique spell that were restricted to each class. We wanted each player to feel like they could do something that other players could not. Each class was engineered to have areas of strength and weakness, so that the style of game play (and strategy) would different from one player to the next

You say you are doing this for game balance . that is a bunch of bull. The equipment and gear that is gotten through crown already blows any balance.
It is like every trading card game. those with the deepest pockets win.
Try pvp a low level and you are fight someone that has a wand that give extra power points. He will get his spell that kills you out first. Or he has the special card that came with his crown equipments that are not his. You are just showing that those with money are better than those that work hard. Did you play test the crown equipment for game balance. They blow your engineering out the window. Game are to be fun but ki is trying to sap that out of the game. The Pet concept is a exorcise in pure drudge. You have to do it to stay even but is no fun.

Delver
Sep 26, 2009
229
Hi i have made storm wizard just so i could have a few storm lords on my death wizard. I think that maybe you could just restrict treasure card use in some places. Plus my friend who is storm, he isn't a member so i was going to give him a few cards because he cant lvl up very fast, well now i cant. I know that i am just one player but there are quite a few people out there who i think dont completely approve of this new rule. I can understand how it is frustrating in pvp though, i have had a few incidents where i fought a few people lvl 30 maybe and they use storm lord or wild bolt but really, i htink this is maybe to extream to ban enchated cards everywhere. Plus the cards that are enchated can sometimes save you perhaps you are facing malistaire and you are alone, but your friend cant come but wamts to give you some cards to help you on the way, (dryad, centaur, heal cards, and lvl 48+ cards) well i think thats nic ebut now you cant. I am giving this example becasue i was stuck doing all the worlds from Marlybone on, solo. Some of my good friends gave me lots of cards though and thats what got me through it all. I really hope that you will consider changing the rule.

Survivor
Feb 22, 2009
18
rozovoeushko wrote:
ICE IS THE LAMEST SCHOOL



Oh really?

You do know that ice is not about damage, its about defense and shields?

I think you don't.

If you dont know how to play as a Ice wizard, its not Ice fault, it is YOUR fault.

Whats next? You're gonna say that Life is the worst school too because it dont have much powerfull damage spells?

Please, Don't talk nonsense.


Defender
Mar 07, 2009
109
Defender
May 09, 2009
161
thank you so much for this update! me and tons of other players hated it when in ranked pvp the opposing team would use powerfull treasure cards that where out of their school to win. (lol just to be sure this is when your in the lower levels 15-35

Survivor
May 24, 2009
5
As I was reading responses to many of the replies, I noticed that many players had a tendency to be a bit harsh on the writer, please be mindful that all age players are submitting their ideas. Please refrain from being rude. My son is only 9 years old and loves to have a voice to the game he loves to play, that is why we live in the USA to allow freedom of opinions but when children of all ages are involved please be cautious of the words you use. This may be just words to you but may devastate a young player. There is a face and a human being behind the words.

Survivor
Sep 07, 2009
32
I didn't play Wizard prior to PvP, so I didn't know that it was once different. Truthfully, I always wondered why any player was EVER allowed to use another school's cards. I like that I can earn them in fights and trade them, but I always thought PvP was stupid. After all, everyone knows you have to go into every fight with Storm shields since so many people Bolt.

This made the duels predictable and boring.

Thank you for "fixing" this.

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
hmm... a lot of the "thx ki" crowd CONTINUES to bring up pvp! when they could have just banned the cards there!

and wichmann59 is 100% correct. balance? BALANCE?!?!? you call crown stuff that a novice can wear BALANCE?!?!? instead of restricting obscene crown bonuses, you eliminate a big part of the tc experience? them scales are VERTICAL, and Judgement's khopesh sword* is a-slashing.

Spiritshadow, i (sort of) feel your pain. you make all these enchanted cards to give... and, with NO WARNING (what's up with that?), you can't. i played the tc black market! i could've written a guidebook! i actually posted tips! i had over two dozen prepared! no warning. no "heads up, trade enchanted cards quick 'cause you can't soon". bam.

hey lizardlord, you already used that Judgement? looks like there ain't any more en route.
thx for agreeing, but SOME people still don't get the needlessness of this TYRANNY. heck, why not just make our wizards live under Malistaire's iron fist? i could do with a good REVOLT.

hey, would a faculty person get back on already? c'mon, let's hear your arguments now that so many have been diffused.

hey, in my last post i forgot to add this alternative: let us sell to elik. he'll charge high prices that anyone under level 15 would have a hard time scraping together; they'll either show deserving patience or blow their gold on the newest available wand/deck/clothing.

hmmm... how about someone who disagrees with me reply to my posts and try to blow them off? could lead to a nice DEBATE, and i'm good at debating.








*: the khopesh is a Middle Eastern sword shaped much like a sickle held backwards. the Judgement spell wields a khopesh.


hope to get you guys thinking about my points again soon!

Defender
Mar 07, 2009
109
Personally I dont like pvp. And if I did it would be great to have just the school you are in. I have played before...it should be about just one school and how you play your cards. Having the BIGGER spells from other schools that you really shouldnt have is not how the game is made. I like to solo and yes I had enchanted cards. A lot of them. but I made them for my own characters. I'm not upset about this decision and will play because I love this game. I have tried many other games similar to this one. To me none come close. I like to play the game using just my primary school. It is harder but I like the idea of one school. Having MORE copies of cards in the bigger deck would be good for this.
some of you need to chill and enjoy the game and the school you choose. Ask for help more...that is the game after all

Delver
Sep 26, 2009
229
Again i have read that maybe its more 50-50 on who likes that change and who doesn't, i still think that it was maybe to extreme but i would agree if you can give me a few good reasons and i can see the meaning to them. I haven't even been playing for a year but i liked the treasure card trading.... I used to go to the shopping dist when i was bored and i would trade the cards that i got that i didn't really want and got things that other people didn't want. but now what, i have to sell the cards my friends would love but i dont need. i would also trade the millions of cards i somehow collect on my grand to my other lower lvls as to help them not die in the boss battles that KI made so you have to buy henchmen or tough it out.

PS. sry i am posting such long posts i know it must be tiring to read them. ill try to make them shorter in the future, TRY. :)(:

Defender
Mar 07, 2009
109
I am going to miss trading my enchanted cards with my other characters. I never did trade much with other people. Never got into doing it. The few times I bought treasure cards from the crown shop...85% of the time you get lousy cards...the other percent I have gotten a few good ones. I like to look for treasure cards at the bazaar at times. They are not cheap and you do get some good ones to use. The truth is I very rarely even use my treasure cards at all. Always forget that they are there :) Reason I have a lot between my characters.
Well KI I still love the game...still think you should have more copies of primary school cards on the biggest deck instead of only four copies. I still enjoy using one school

Death 50
Life 45
Balance 35
Myth 18
Storm 21
Ice 19
Fire 21

Defender
Mar 09, 2009
125
Someone mentioned that many of these complaints are pertaining to pvp. I've pvp'd 3 times in a year and a half, so I'll say nothing about that. My problem with these 'enchanted treasure cards' is this:
My kids are bringing up a death wizard, he is currently level 44 and in The Tower Archives. He is battling some death opponents to get a key. Someone (a level 44 balance guy) pops into the battle, which is usually ok, because of attacking same school is always tough. Now, he brings in another death guy and just passes every turn.
The kids ask why aren't you attacking, and his response is: 'I'm going to use fire dragon and I need pips.' Now, there are a couple of problems with this.
1. He was balance, so he can't use power pips.
2. He has to pass for SEVEN turns to get the pips, meanwhile my kids are taking the hits from all 3 of the death guys.
3. Using a powerful off school spell is pretty lame, damage wise, compared to a fire wizard casting the same spell, and usually doesn't even rate a 'nice' comment.

We didn't have a chance to see if he ever cast his dragon, the kids had lucky cards that day and with 3 prisms, a couple of wraiths and vampires, took care of them before the other guy even got to 7 pips.

This has happened to them and myself as well on numerous occasions.


Oh yeah, there was notification that the trading of enchanted trading cards was coming to an end, you merely had to read the KI message, or look at ANY of the fansites! That information was made available the day the test realm opened for the pet pavilion!

Rogan Firehammer