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Changes to Critical Hit and Critical Block system

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Sep 15, 2012
46
Well according to the new updates that are suppose to happen tonight there will be an adjustment to critical and critical block not exactly sure how much but I'm very curious to see. Also if I read things correctly there should be a reduction in critical for bosses and mobs by 50% across the board? I do really hope they don't forget the Exalted Duels those have been key to getting some of the good gear as well. It sounds like Darkmoor will be easier now too. So looking forward to the changes and I hope they live up to the hopes of the players.

Patrick/ Prodigious

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4163
Angel of Solitude on Dec 1, 2015 wrote:
Speak for myself? I was voicing out my own opinion and my point of view on this matter. I'm not expecting others to view things the same way I do.

I don't care if you like the new system.

I have also spent time and money on this game, just like everyone else—what's your point?

You have failed to realize that not everyone can adapt to the new system.

Before you quote my statement, make yourself clear on what it is that you are arguing about. How does my statement reference to anything you just mentioned?
His statement spoke directly towards your assertion that ALL the players who are fine with the new system are players who never farmed for gear or had any block. He refuted that claim directly.

Explorer
Jul 16, 2009
86
Here's the deal, yo', with bosses and monsters- your changes for critical blocks should be re-thought.
How's about a new quest or story where wizards go talk to so and so near do-well who teaches wizards how to block the new monsters and bosses criticals?
Maybe some training points utilized?
This is a big deal for wizards who have been beat down critically by bosses and monsters.
When the bosses and monster critical over and over on wizards and there isn't anything they can do about it, their teachers are supposed to offer them some new skills. Otherwise, student wizards can never win.
I'm cool with the new trip, but, I think providing wizards with the tools they need to beat the bosses and monsters is the Professors jobs.

I'm not down with making things more difficult for student wizards in the story line. In my opinion, it's ALWAYS been difficult to advance in the game.

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
as a critical noob myself, the only thing really wrong with the old system was that there was really no dice roll what so ever. I would have about 120% to critical while players have in the range of 60-75% to block and all would block me every time I would hit which feels pointless, but this system is even more pointless in pvp.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1016
rocket030 on Dec 2, 2015 wrote:
The system is hard capped at 100% so unless KI stops putting out new gear with better block or critical each 10 levels it will continue to be a 100% block and resist system. Someone who sets up then modified their gear around one or the other at 100% will be seeing very little difference in game play. But for those with gear that at one time was a mix having some block and critical have been hit the hardest. To me that is the fail.

When you say KI failed on adjusting the system for the lower worlds that is why people are asking at least temporarily change it back. Even a idea of when they will have changes in place may help. Next you say this is only good for a short time. Then this wasn't a real fix and shouldn't have been done until they had one. If everything is going to have be changed again as you say then that would be another fail.
Yes this system is merely a stop-gap measure until they can implement a new system or more likely add a new stat such as block pierce or a similar mechanic. The reason I agree with this system is that it is better for game balance than the old system which had already reached it's limits. A continuation of the old system would have excessively punished casual players to the point of unplayability while simultaneously punishing those who did not have the best of the best gear.

Explorer
Jun 06, 2009
50
last night I teamed up with a level 110 balance and a questing 71 ? death wizard, I was a 86 storm, in Mirror Lake. I picked this finale because at least one person used it as an example of a can't survive very well dungeon. Well we saw no crits first fight, one with the ghosts- the myth guy used a frog, we didn't block. Later in the fight, the death girl crit on her crow, bad guys didn't block. Third fight, bad guy crit using snow angel, death blocked, balance and I didn't, the last fight I had a cri I believe, and that was it ! there was no over crit and under blocking as far as I could see, at least here,other dungeons I need to try but my level 86 was also fine in the small boss quests she did in Azteca and no mob probs there either. The Balance wizard ,level 110,said she had no real complaints so far either. I will hit the Rat tomorrow night with my Myth, and see how that goes.
ok later, friend and I were comparing our high level storms, mine 102, hers 110. Ok , I see the decay as we reach 110. What is the alternative? bad guys with health in hundreds of thousands? The gear we wore in marleybone won't cut it in say dragonspire, so why should the gear from khrysalis/darkmoor last much past Polaris. Yes we all worked hard farming or spent money getting top gear, as we did even before the critical system was introduced.
I do hope the older world bosses are going to follow the same system the wizards are now on. Yes , it is unfair to go to say Darkmoor, and not be able to block a critical or the boss critical over and over. I had it happen to me and was shocked.
KI, explain the reasons better , I think that will help.You had a reason for this change, explain it and remember this is a kids/famly game so all ages need a simplified explanation. I'm not sure if I hit the reason for the decay element or not but to me it does make sense. I don't know what formula was used, so I wont comment on the % used in each case.

Defender
Jul 16, 2014
174
Well seems like they finally started to make some changes, still not what it was but we will have to see how it is now. I still don't want to switch my high crit to high power just yet as it would mean destroying some jewels. Guess we will have to test it out and see. I still think they should up it a but more but they did say they cut the bosses crit and block in half so we will see.

Survivor
Sep 02, 2012
3
After spending well over $1000 a month on this game (please i encourage you to see my billing statements) i left for about 18 months. I left because of you last little "game balancing" adventure. That was when you changed all the healing pets to heal less. I had spent countless hours and dollars building the perfect pet, only for you to slash it all in half and change the behavior of heals. I was disgusted and had to just leave cause every time i played i was reminded of what a fool i had been for working so hard.

I returned about 18 months later, I found some wonderful surprises. Great new spells, wonderful new worlds and many awesome game improvements. I was excited to play again. I work and work, and of course, here you come with another little surprise. I went in with 3 other 110 wiz into darkmoor. We are all experienced, second battle we all died at least 3 times, fled, returned. Never saw a critical or a block. 8 hours later, finally finished---but it wasn't fun. Couldn't enjoy it, was only frustrated. I do not understand why we work to get our gear, pets, and everything else --fight to get the right rings, amulets, all of it, only for you to come in and make a little "adjustment".

I guess i just have to stop playing, or not take the game seriously -- not sure which, but something has to give.

Survivor
Jul 06, 2010
15
Intrepidatius on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
I am amazed by how many people here are missing the bigger point; the issue here isn't whether you like this new change to the critical system, or not, it's how it was done. Customers were presented with "critical" in Celestia, and even though myself and many others found it lackluster at best, it is what we were given. Now fast forward several years, after we adjusted to this system, made purchases around it, farmed by it, and centered a lot of our time around it, and suddenly the rules change, and negates all of our hard work, and expenditures. Essentially it is a case of the customers being taken for granted, even if some don't realize it. Change is often needed in these type games, but there is a right and wrong way to do them. Negating cash investments, and countless hours of members utilizing the system, is not the way to invoke change. Critical like many things here needed issues addressed, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. KI you have created a wonderful game, but you are seriously mismanaging it at the moment. If you want to ensure its continued health, then please listen carefully. I addressed this in another post, but i will reiterate the points again:
1) It should be obvious by now a mistake was made with how this system was implemented. Temporarily take it down, and go back to the old system until a better system can be implemented that does no take your paying customers for granted.
2) Separate Critical damage from heals.
3) Separate PvP/PvE once and for all.

If you do these 3 simple things, you will have taken a huge step in restoring the faith of many of your customers.
I also agree with you on this. Critical has been a problem for a long time and needed to be addressed. But the way this has been done is the real problem. Many, including yourself, have talked about different ways to address this, and I'm really hoping KI is truly listening. You can't expect paying customers to put real money into the game, set up their characters around the system that has been implemented, whether good or bad, and then just change it completely years later. I understand there was a change needed, but the way they have gone about it is completely wrong. I don't have all the answers, but I know as a paying customer I'm very unsatisfied with the way the game is being handled at the moment. "Restoring the faith" is a great way to have worded this. You can't please everyone all of the time, but you can show your customers that they do matter, and that their valid concerns are being addressed.

Survivor
Apr 06, 2015
5
Hello,

If you have read any of my previous replies to this new system that I have made, then you can tell that I was pretty angry at the time with how things have changed. However, KI just released an update early this morning (December 3, 2015) which brings up your critical and your critical block. Plus, almost all the creatures in the entire Spiral have had a reduction from their original critical or critical block ratings. Basically those ratings were cut in half for all the creatures, according to the update notes. Seeing all of these changes, I'm VERY happy they were made, the system still will take some getting used to but I feel like it's been more balanced out.

Also, in the update notes, it says that Darkmoor has been changed for the better, making bosses a little bit easier, which will definetly help me with my farming. Thanks KingsIsle!

Kenneth FireBlade (Level 104)

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3171
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 1, 2015 wrote:
I'm sorry Dr Von but you are not a casual player. Any player with a self-confirmed dozens of DM runs, perfect pets, and farmed/crafted gear no longer falls into that category. The players I refer to as casual are the players with an adult pet. Players who buy their gear in the bazaar and mix with dropped gear in the world. Those players would simply not been able to survive the newer worlds had the current system been allowed to progress. As for how fun the new system is. Try questing in Polaris- the system works absolutely beautifully there and PvE there is far from ruined. As for "anemic" stats- I have actually already posted threads showing the kinds of stats you can achieve: Far more than necessary to merely survive-which seems to be your main concern.

Balanced PvE Gear-lvl 110.
I'm sorry Dr Von but you are not a casual player. Any player with a self-confirmed dozens of DM runs, perfect pets, and farmed/crafted gear no longer falls into that category.

i have 4 wizards at exalted, and only one in darkmoor gear; i don't have the time, or the desire, to repeat it, especially under the new system. the only reason i have it is that it's required for progression~ your own thread (the one you linked to) states that your "balanced" stats require you to have a full set of dm gear.

darkmoor is painfully boring and stressful, but i wanted the gear on one wizard because i knew it would be needed to survive.

fyi, i can't stand crafting either. the only reason i do it is because (unlike farming) at least i get something worth keeping after wasting hours and hours of my precious time.

i'm not sure what you consider a perfect pet, but i certainly don't have one. my pets are good, though they are far from perfect, and i have only one at mega; the others are all epic or lower.

Those players would simply not been able to survive the newer worlds had the current system been allowed to progress.

they won't be able to survive under the current system either; the only difference is that you can't miss what you've never had.

Try questing in Polaris- the system works absolutely beautifully there and PvE there is far from ruined.

it failed in test, and nothing has changed in live. i've given kingsisle many chances to restore my faith in them, and they have failed on all accounts; when it's clear that they can't and won't listen to their players.it's far too late to implement the change; if it was never supposed to work this way, then it should have been fixed straight out of the gate and not 50 levels after the fact.

-von

Survivor
Jan 10, 2011
11
Honestly, it seems that I have lost most of my critical rating chance.

Survivor
Feb 25, 2011
2
Professor Drake on Nov 20, 2015 wrote:
Greetings, students. I would like to take some time to comment on the recent adjustments made to the Critical and Block system. As many of you are aware, we made significant changes to the system and how it works. These changes were not made lightly. I want to assure you that we would not have made these changes if we did not feel they were absolutely necessary. With this in mind, the system will not be reverted to the way it was in the past.

If it wasn’t made clear before, this is how the new system works: The attacker will roll to see if they score a Critical Hit. If the attack is a Critical, then the defender will roll to see if they successfully Block the Critical hit. Because this is working differently than how it was calculated before, some of you will notice a change in your chance to score a Critical Hit or Block.

Please give it a try and see the how the changes impact your gameplay in practice. We take your feedback very seriously (both positive and negative). We read the forums here and on other sites. Based on feedback we have already received, we are looking at tweaking some numbers to improve scores at certain points in the level curve. Overall, we want a healthy game where players are having fun. We will continue to monitor player feedback and your progression through the game.
"we want a healthy game where players are having fun." If you haven't noticed... People dont like the new system, its not fun anymore! I am close to closing my subscription and have it to a game i actually like! its just not fun anymore with the new system. Storm, Life, fire, and balance (mostly) basically relied on the old system. Now i have a storm wizard and i feel weak now without a critical. I JUST want the system to be in the pvp arena and not pve! JUST FOR PVP

Chris Mythtalon - Level 110
Chris Firehammer - Level 39
Chris lifehammer - level 27

Survivor
Dec 23, 2011
3
The old system used to be PERFECT!!!! The new update has on caused negative affects. On my lvl 84 fire I relied on my critical!!! i spent DAYS just trying to raise my critical. I had a TON of critical gear and it all gave me a little more than 65% critical. Now it has dropped to less than 50%. This means i cant rely on critical anymore, i cant solo... I am concelling my membership. I am sorry but this update made the game so much worse. No fun...

Defender
Nov 24, 2012
124
seethe42 on Dec 3, 2015 wrote:
His statement spoke directly towards your assertion that ALL the players who are fine with the new system are players who never farmed for gear or had any block. He refuted that claim directly.
You clearly did not read my post. Eric Stormbringer is one of the players that does not understand why most players are complaining. Therefore, my statement still applies to him. If Eric did understand, he would be aware that just because he was able to adapt to the new system does not mean everyone else can.
There are many things that are wrong with the new system, and many players are not aware of them, such as Eric. KingsIsle is obviously aware of the problems with the new system—why else do you think they are adjusting it?

Survivor
Mar 25, 2014
19
I believe KI, that if you wanted to do something like this that you need to meet your player base in the middle. This crit/block stuff is big enough to deserve it's own test session so that all levels would know how they would be effected instead of you trying to gloss it over. You guys knew you were going to do this change and yet you kept coming out with packs, darkmoor, ultra dungeons knowing full well those stats were going to mean nothing once we leveled passed 100. That time should have been spent testing this crit/block situation. The whole play style of the game is more important than anything.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1016
Dr Von on Dec 3, 2015 wrote:
I'm sorry Dr Von but you are not a casual player. Any player with a self-confirmed dozens of DM runs, perfect pets, and farmed/crafted gear no longer falls into that category.

i have 4 wizards at exalted, and only one in darkmoor gear; i don't have the time, or the desire, to repeat it, especially under the new system. the only reason i have it is that it's required for progression~ your own thread (the one you linked to) states that your "balanced" stats require you to have a full set of dm gear.

darkmoor is painfully boring and stressful, but i wanted the gear on one wizard because i knew it would be needed to survive.

fyi, i can't stand crafting either. the only reason i do it is because (unlike farming) at least i get something worth keeping after wasting hours and hours of my precious time.

i'm not sure what you consider a perfect pet, but i certainly don't have one. my pets are good, though they are far from perfect, and i have only one at mega; the others are all epic or lower.

Those players would simply not been able to survive the newer worlds had the current system been allowed to progress.

they won't be able to survive under the current system either; the only difference is that you can't miss what you've never had.

Try questing in Polaris- the system works absolutely beautifully there and PvE there is far from ruined.

it failed in test, and nothing has changed in live. i've given kingsisle many chances to restore my faith in them, and they have failed on all accounts; when it's clear that they can't and won't listen to their players.it's far too late to implement the change; if it was never supposed to work this way, then it should have been fixed straight out of the gate and not 50 levels after the fact.

-von
Dr Von- the only reason i have it is that it's required for progression~ your own thread (the one you linked to) states that your "balanced" stats require you to have a full set of dm gear.

Darkmoor Gear is not required for progression, nor is it required for balanced PvE stats: PvE stats no DM gear.

Dr Von- they won't be able to survive under the current system either; the only difference is that you can't miss what you've never had.

Players who have actually been through Polaris are surviving there just fine under the system. In fact there were a number of threads claiming Polaris was too easy. As for the lower worlds now with the monsters being adjusted to fit within this system, the lower worlds are more than survivable.

Dr Von- it failed in test, and nothing has changed in live. i've given kingsisle many chances to restore my faith in them, and they have failed on all accounts; when it's clear that they can't and won't listen to their players.

As someone who has actually quested through the entirety of Polaris in both Test and Live I can confirm that the questing experience there is exemplary.

Dr Von- if it was never supposed to work this way, then it should have been fixed straight out of the gate and not 50 levels after the fact.

Better a late fix than no fix. I agree they should have tweaked the system earlier- I pointed out it's flaws years ago: Critical System Prediction

Survivor
Jul 14, 2009
15
Noticed the minor changes in the new critical/block system. Seems to help a little in PoE play, but since I don't PvP, I will wait for my friends to let me know how it is working there.

Survivor
Sep 02, 2012
3
Earlier I let my feelings be known regarding the "adjustment" to critical and blocking features. Ive now played with the Dec 3 update and must say, it's much much better.

Thank You ki for fixing this

fyi -
I really like the suggestion of putting major "bone rattling" changes in a test site.

Champion
Jul 04, 2012
495
i dislike the new system very much. My life wizard has 303 critical rating (or something like that) but only has 21%, while a storm wizard would have a much higher percentage with that. Disappointed in the way life wizards are treated.

Angela Gem, Level 110
Katie GoldFountain, Level 94

Explorer
Jun 17, 2012
96
Hi everyone, hope there is a lift in the general spirits and that the Dec. 3rd updates have made a difference. I am anxious to get on my wizards and play to see how it has been changed. In my 11/27 post I was simply saying that the people who trained pets and/or farmed for gear IN ANTICIPATION of the new world, not KNOWING anything about how it would be or change and are now mad at KI, have only themselves to blame. That's it. I was NOT saying that all wizards who spend hours training pets or farming, "tough luck to you now that your critical and block has been sliced in half". No. The pre-change crit/block was alarmingly bad. BUT I know that KI will continue to correct it if after the 12/3 update it is still horribly unbalanced. To Corwin F, Angel of Solitude & Scarlet Stardust: I think all of you are misdirecting your anger at me and reading more into what I said then what was there. No I am not standing around in the commons, I am questing in Polaris and having fun. I also am a paying member and spend plenty on this game, gifting friends and helping others when I can. I am an experienced player who is far from ignorant about this game. I don't know one high level wizard who "equips the first gear that drops" and I also had pretty high block and critical before the change. Sure I was freaked out when I saw 1% block and that my level 66 myth wizard has more critical than my exalted wizard... but I am not lashing out at KI about it. I am waiting patiently for them to correct it. My exalted wizard has mostly DM gear and the rest is crafted. Just because I do not personally choose to spend more time then absolutely necessary in DM or the pet pavilion does not mean I don't appreciate those who do. I had no idea my tiny post would cause you 3-4 wizards to take such offense. I am sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. Hopefully you understand now what I meant. Also to High Five Ghost, again, I wasn't insulting people who spend money on this game, I do too.

Explorer
Jun 17, 2012
96
I also wanted to add as a general statement: Sharing opinions is great and I love that about the message boards. It is my opinion that it is sad to see so many people leave or threaten to leave the spiral over this change. KI seems to be a company who cares a lot about its fan base and player community. Not just because of the money that players pay either. They have a lot of giveaways, contest, code keys, fansite events, many ways to get free, valuable items. They always make the holidays special all year long and send you stuff for your bday. I just think it is sad that people seem to take that for granted. Hey, maybe they don't care what do I know? But they seem like a cool company with great people who love what they do.

I also wanted to say that Polaris is amazing. I am only in Forlorn Tayg but am taking my time and enjoying the journey. Polaris is INCREDIBLE. I love it so much there. I am thankful to have a new world to enjoy right now and for my lower level wizards to look forward to. Very thankful and happy.

Again, I know not everything is glowing sunshine and happiness, but it makes me sad to see people throwing insults. I don't like to see it in game or here. I know some opinions might cause a stir and that is what hot topics are, but I hope people remember this is a game. When you first started out it was about making friends and having fun. Sometimes it seems like all people care about is having the best of everything and step on whoever is in the way. Or people don't take time to get to know someone, just use them and go. I spend a lot of time selfishly in game working on my wizards, usually hidden. But I also spend a lot of time helping others, lower level or same. I may have even helped you, the wizards like Angel of Solitude and Scarlet Stardust who lash out at me because they misunderstand my post. It just would have been cool to see some questions for me rather then a lot of sarcasm which was neither funny or clever.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3171
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 4, 2015 wrote:
Dr Von- the only reason i have it is that it's required for progression~ your own thread (the one you linked to) states that your "balanced" stats require you to have a full set of dm gear.

Darkmoor Gear is not required for progression, nor is it required for balanced PvE stats: PvE stats no DM gear.

Dr Von- they won't be able to survive under the current system either; the only difference is that you can't miss what you've never had.

Players who have actually been through Polaris are surviving there just fine under the system. In fact there were a number of threads claiming Polaris was too easy. As for the lower worlds now with the monsters being adjusted to fit within this system, the lower worlds are more than survivable.

Dr Von- it failed in test, and nothing has changed in live. i've given kingsisle many chances to restore my faith in them, and they have failed on all accounts; when it's clear that they can't and won't listen to their players.

As someone who has actually quested through the entirety of Polaris in both Test and Live I can confirm that the questing experience there is exemplary.

Dr Von- if it was never supposed to work this way, then it should have been fixed straight out of the gate and not 50 levels after the fact.

Better a late fix than no fix. I agree they should have tweaked the system earlier- I pointed out it's flaws years ago: Critical System Prediction
there's a late fix, and then there's this disaster.

different story if they had fixed it 5 or 10 levels after the fact. but 50? especially after the nerf we saw when this thing first went live... that's flat-out offensive.

angel of solitude is 100% right~ just because *you* see no problems with the new system does not mean that they don't exist. if the majority felt as you do, there wouldn't have been 10 pages of complaints in test and another 10 pages of complaints in live, and kingsisle wouldn't be making any changes; clearly, the problem isn't me.

i logged in last night, just for the lols, and i noticed that kingsisle had tweaked my stats again; instead of 25/44% (crit and block respectively), i had 33/50% (again, in that order). still not acceptable by any means, but it's a step in the right direction.

(that tells me that kingsisle is finally listening to their players; faith in this game slightly restored)

-von

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
39
Ok Peeps:


In regards to changes:
I think it would beneficial that under the wizards name we can see his/her stats critical hit and block before the changes occurred, as well as after.

I talked with a wizard on game that was satisfied with changes. However his highest wizard was a level 55 and was weak before changes. Even with changes he still is. But he has been posting about Criticals but all we see are the names, and as member he has the right to post. I understand that.

However, I feel that people that were saying the game was too easy would have outrageous Stats.
Also how could someone at level 55 give and credence to the discussion. about the changes to the system.

Please please don't get me wrong. But it's like someone that drives a car discussing how to fly an airplane. They may have some general knowledge but not the best person to turn to. ( that is why I think seeing stats on the board would help).

I personally am finding more and more dissatisfaction in playing the game.
We don't really here anything from KI other than here it is. which is like saying deal with it.

As we all know different schools stats are set different. so a Blanket reduction to me was not the best idea.
KI say to make game more balanced in play. As for me I only play with lower level wizards in lore-master. Which has allot of people there as low as level 8. Again this makes absolutely no since. But they have the right as members of the game.

Anyway extremely disappointed, disgusted and frustrated, that KI took this direction.

I think it would be good to make boss reductions available in printed form. Because I and not seeing what KI has expressed. Well except the reduction of higher level wizards. We got the reduction then each level past 100 we also lost one critical point per level. With this idea If I were to play on and make it to level 150 I guess I would be complete stripped of any improved stats.

This is so wrong in many ways.
Again I will miss you all peeps

Survivor
Oct 01, 2014
41
3 accounts from a new account with level 33 to level 70. a account with level 62 to level 102, a account with all level 100+. Losing anywhere from 1% to ? of the effective block. And seeing it isn't a problem to get that taken away. Not thrilled. After going through the pet heal nerf already. (Was there some kind of danger of the end of the game there also?) I see that anything I work for I can't even count on keeping the benefits. I really liked the game as you can tell with 3 accounts. But this.