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Changes to Critical Hit and Critical Block system

AuthorMessage
Defender
Oct 22, 2012
133
Just realized I may not have explained what I meant very well about the flat rate to percentage. Maybe this will explain what I was getting at better.

If someone who has 30% now averages the flat rate to percentage they will see a lower number then someone who has 95% even though both have had the same dead zone applied.

Survivor
Sep 04, 2011
1
With the new system, even with the highest possible block I can get, I can't even block simple critical's from the easiest of minions. Blocking is a miracle now making questing really hard and not very enjoyable since I worked hard to craft my critical block boots on my characters, they are next to useless now. The percentage for blocking criticals needs a major increase. I can understand wanting variety but it's not what the players want and if anything it has unbalanced the game. I definitely won't be renewing my membership...

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1127
Angel of Solitude on Dec 19, 2015 wrote:
What's so sad about this is the lack of knowledge certain players have about this topic. Those who stated being pleased with the current system tended to have biased and faulty generalizations.

In order to fully understand the current system's mechanics, every aspect of the game should be acknowledged—from PvE to PvP to all magical schools. Regrettably, acknowledging every aspect of the game is a quality that some players lack.

Players voiced out their opinions and ideas of improving the system, and I couldn't help but ponder over specific posts. Posts that I found sad, indeed. Post that favored only one aspect of the game such as: Why can't this only be a PvP thing? If you're one of the players that thinks the new system "balances" PvP, you couldn't be more wrong.
As a player that enjoys both PvE and PvP, it's a tragedy to see both aspects of the game become unenjoyable.

I've also noticed players mentioning "casual players" as if that means anything. How were "casual players" affected more, exactly?

In a previous post of mine, I asked two question that to this day remain unanswered: How does the new system balance the game? How is taking Life's ability to heal effectively balance the game?

I was expecting an answer to my question but did not receive one. Perhaps one of the administrators could be oh-so-kind to answer that for me? Or perhaps the fellow wizard that feels that there is no need for this topic to remain open?

Clearly, if no one is able to answer this "strenuous question," the current system still needs improvement.
As far as how KI considered the revamp of the system to be a "balancing" of gameplay we can all only speculate... but I suspect the greatest concern was critical block. From a player standpoint, enemies, bosses primarily, nearly always blocked critical hits in worlds from Avalon and up. Critical hits were great in street fights because at least you had a chance of being successful but in boss fights the minion's blocks seemed to be tied to the boss... if the boss blocked, so did the minions. Since the update, block is not a given, even on the same round. Where if one blocked, they all blocked used to be the norm, now there's a chance from enemy to enemy that they will or won't block and at least in my experience even though I critical fewer times, the majority of the critical hits get through.
Regarding the effect the update has had on Life and critical heal, I noticed after the update went live that there was a drastic reduction in the number of times my Life wizard hit a critical heal. Now that KI has (I'm assuming) been tuning the system I find that my critical heals have returned. Not every time, but in my case they never were every time.
I don't PvP so I can't really speak from experience about that aspect of the game but as far as I can tell as long as both PvP and PvE use the same rules they will NEVER be balanced. There's simply too much difference in strategy. And even though the enemy's A.I. has been improved, the computer opponents in this game are still no match for a human when it comes to strategy and planning. This is, in part, why bosses cheat. They have to in order to survive because even the toughest boss is no match for a well prepared human opponent.
I won't go so far as to say I'm "pleased" with the new system but I don't see it as the game ender that a lot of people think it is. And yes, it could have been implemented in a better way but that's all water under the bridge.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2225
TucsonWizard on Dec 21, 2015 wrote:
As far as how KI considered the revamp of the system to be a "balancing" of gameplay we can all only speculate... but I suspect the greatest concern was critical block. From a player standpoint, enemies, bosses primarily, nearly always blocked critical hits in worlds from Avalon and up. Critical hits were great in street fights because at least you had a chance of being successful but in boss fights the minion's blocks seemed to be tied to the boss... if the boss blocked, so did the minions. Since the update, block is not a given, even on the same round. Where if one blocked, they all blocked used to be the norm, now there's a chance from enemy to enemy that they will or won't block and at least in my experience even though I critical fewer times, the majority of the critical hits get through.
Regarding the effect the update has had on Life and critical heal, I noticed after the update went live that there was a drastic reduction in the number of times my Life wizard hit a critical heal. Now that KI has (I'm assuming) been tuning the system I find that my critical heals have returned. Not every time, but in my case they never were every time.
I don't PvP so I can't really speak from experience about that aspect of the game but as far as I can tell as long as both PvP and PvE use the same rules they will NEVER be balanced. There's simply too much difference in strategy. And even though the enemy's A.I. has been improved, the computer opponents in this game are still no match for a human when it comes to strategy and planning. This is, in part, why bosses cheat. They have to in order to survive because even the toughest boss is no match for a well prepared human opponent.
I won't go so far as to say I'm "pleased" with the new system but I don't see it as the game ender that a lot of people think it is. And yes, it could have been implemented in a better way but that's all water under the bridge.
I've been saying for a long time, as have others, that they could lower the brute force approach if they just made a few simple changes to the AI. The BIGGEST change they could make, is a single step, which is to not allow a blade to be cast onto a monster that cant use it. Call it "smart blade casting" if you want. if a storm monster wants to cast a storm blade on another monster, it must first check if that monster has any storm spells. If the second monster doesnt use storms spells, the blade goes on itself. This ONE change would make the game much more challenging on all levels of play. if it makes it too hard, it could be implemented from marleybone on up. When we get to MB, we talk to somebody who would explain that the monsters are getting smarter, and how they cast their blade spells will be smarter as well. That way, we get 2 whole worlds of the dumber monsters, and then ramp it up from there on out.

As for critical hits and life's healing, I JUST posted about a solution that could remove critical healing all together. This would totally eliminate the dependency on critical hits for healing, and allow KI to remove critical healing from the game 100%. i'd reference the post, but it hasnt been approved yet.

You and I are in total agreement about having PvP and PvE use separate rules, and I've been one of the biggest supporters for this.

Survivor
Jan 05, 2013
2
Hi Everyone,

It is difficult to make changes or fixes without empirical data. So give KI the tools they need to verify and make corrections. So on to empirical data
..... the following test on a level 104 Wizard testing a 505 critical rating (60% chance of critical) on 12/21 in conjunction with regular Vengeance (20%). The expected result was to have a critical (80%) 4 out of every 5 casts. After 40 casts of sandstorm (during farming and at various other times with tally sheet handy) the results were a little surprising. Only about 23 of the casts actually scored a critical. This is roughly 58%. 40 casts of sandstorm without vengeance with an expected (505) 60% is actually around 40% -- looks like something is not quite right there either. For some reason there is a 20% deficit in critical chance for a level 104 Wizard. Please fix.

Here is an example of INPUT with supporting evidence for a position: Since the the above test was done the balance wizard is now level 105 ... and the 505 critical rating percentage chance dropped another 3% (57% now). This is not called diminishing returns. This is what is known as NEGATIVE RETURN or in layman terms, PUNISHING SUCCESS. It's all about having fun, right? Usually,taking things away from people is NOT FUN. So what is fun? Beating the bad guy, helping your friends get cool gear, making friends, exploring areas, PvP with good sportsmanship, making jokes, cool drops, and in short WINNING. Nerfing the critical system takes away from all these things and brings -- complaints, anger, disdain, disappointment, dissatisfaction, frustration, etc. The "progressive" critical / blocking system is starting to sound more and more like the income tax code and is predictably becoming just as popular.

Just remember you can never err on making something too much fun. Especially during this time of year.

Happy Christmas!

Survivor
Jul 19, 2010
2
I have a question in regards to pack items who would spend crowns on packs to get critical & block gear items that show little to no improvement in game play? I can under stand why you adjusted critical & block . I don't think the critical was the problem it was more the block needed to be increased and still dose. I think this was the aim of the new up date to adjust it with new gear. At max level critical should almost be a given an block should also be a given in PVP & or PVE, but at lower level well sorry no it shouldn't . Each world/ level by tens or so could have it on critical & block standards. That might help with the problem. In PVE The players block needed to be increased across the board no one likes to be critical ed on but every one loves the splash the critical makes. While I am here The next world please make the next world a little harder with boss health increased an maybe a new boss tricks / cheats or two like the boss switching places with minions or with players. That would be interesting or a big uh oh. Thank you for your time.

Explorer
Jan 30, 2009
59
standardize it. rather then having say a lvl 100 gear that gives 110 critical rating and another lvl 100 gear that gives 90 critical rating ect ect. standardize it like this:

all gear gives 10% critical chance if it has critical rating stat.

so lets see here guy has helm, cloak, wand he has 30% to critical. lets add ring, athame and amulet now its 60% and then if we add deck 70%. and boots 80%.

now to encourage the farming of new gear as more lvls add up, have them lose 1% chance for every lvl they are above the gear's lvl. so lets say guy had critical on all items and had 80% critical rating with lvl 90 gear. he lvls up to 100 he now has 70% chance to critical, at lvl 110 60%. thus he can keep the gear and still be somewhat viable at least for a while.

and you can do the same for block rating with forced variation of minor pieces. for example wand, helm and cloak always have critical rating, wand, boots cloak always have block rating. boots, helm, ring, amulet, deck, and athame may or may not have block or critical rating.

this will allow people to focus on block, or critical as they feel is best and easier for kingsisle to control the maximum effectivce limits.

Survivor
Oct 04, 2015
7
I personally believe that critical block should be completely removed, white critical itself should be a fixed, low <5% chance across the board. Gear shouldn't add to this chance, the only thing that should increase it is vengeance (by 20%).
Critical hits should be an exciting, unexpected game changer, not an inevitability. PVP and PVE are becoming dependent on a LUCK based mechanic. Success should be strategy and skill driven, with a dab of luck in the case of (critical hits and accuracy).
This should add to a more enjoyable and rewarding gaming experience.

Geographer
Sep 19, 2013
839
No. Just no. A binary critical system for gear (you either got it or you don't) is bad; we can't have OK gear that gives some gear some critical and then farmable gear that gives more.

Defender
Dec 31, 2014
118
The critical system is good as it is right now, if your system exists, it would make the critical system worse, and people would be buying Bazaar gear to increase their critical by a really high percentage. Also, how would the decrease in critical work if you have gear of different levels? You might have did your math wrong, if Guy has eight pieces of gear, he should lose 8% critical for every level, so at level 90, he should have no critical at all, which doesn't make sense.

Explorer
Jan 30, 2009
59
I find it funny when a person who probably has never played a serious mmo says a balancing idea is wrong. while my op idea could use some tweeks such as one I found while writing this, it is a good idea overall. and here is a very good reason why. many games use a format similar to what I mentioned since it allows for greater player choice in stats, while at same time enforcing a balancing issue. see what I don't suggest, is 1 preordained gear set that so inherently better then all others that no other set is even viable (current system) rather I say give multiple tier 1 sets that a player can choose from. i.e. one that gives more focus on block, mitigation, incoming heal, or critical, pierce, damage, or critical, outgoing heal, mitigation ect. sry but I am really getting tired of the op cookie cutter gear sets that allow no customization, no individuality. mean look at pvp since start of hades dungeon release, it gotten so op that I wont ever pvp again in this game. it was fun when there was counters, it was fun when you could have healers and tank on your team and actually god forbid have a shot at winning match.

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
39
a real fix to critical/block system
standardize it. rather then having say a lvl 100 gear that gives 110 critical rating and another lvl 100 gear that gives 90 critical rating ect ect. standardize it like this:

This is such a frustration:

Unfortunately different wizards desire different gear and stats. Some like to run a higher critical and less block or resistance.
If you have looked at the different gear across the spiral. You should have notice that often times there is a reduction in one stat and an increase to another.
So why would you want to penalize someone for keeping a level sixth gear the higher they go in level.
Or why would you think that someone would want to do away with the Critical System at all.

I thought the other system was great. The new one has made it harder for the middle to wearer players. Whom you want to penalize even more.

Now i don't agree with luck either but I will say good luck to you.
If you want a reduction just change your gear to a lower level reduce your stats and have fun with that.

As for me. All of the why not do this or do that is pointless. Wizards all have a different style now you are asking for more frustrations.

KI please post stats of wizards by there names.

This would give more validity to someone than just reading a post. Are they wanting to change things because they are jealous or do they have a good point. Right now I am thinking that it's not for the betterment of the game.

Why don't we just make all spells and stats for all wizards the same. One spell only from level 1 to max level. Maybe it will make them happy.

I'm just so frustrated with others wanting even more changes.

Who cares if a wizard can reach a high level in any stat. Just play the game.

I would say the idea is not a fix. Because it is not broken.

Why do people want to trash a system that has worked for years?

Maybe because they were unable to adapt? Honestly I don't know.

Bye Peeps

Explorer
Jan 30, 2009
59
MADISON461J on Dec 30, 2015 wrote:
a real fix to critical/block system
standardize it. rather then having say a lvl 100 gear that gives 110 critical rating and another lvl 100 gear that gives 90 critical rating ect ect. standardize it like this:

This is such a frustration:

Unfortunately different wizards desire different gear and stats. Some like to run a higher critical and less block or resistance.
If you have looked at the different gear across the spiral. You should have notice that often times there is a reduction in one stat and an increase to another.
So why would you want to penalize someone for keeping a level sixth gear the higher they go in level.
Or why would you think that someone would want to do away with the Critical System at all.

I thought the other system was great. The new one has made it harder for the middle to wearer players. Whom you want to penalize even more.

Now i don't agree with luck either but I will say good luck to you.
If you want a reduction just change your gear to a lower level reduce your stats and have fun with that.

As for me. All of the why not do this or do that is pointless. Wizards all have a different style now you are asking for more frustrations.

KI please post stats of wizards by there names.

This would give more validity to someone than just reading a post. Are they wanting to change things because they are jealous or do they have a good point. Right now I am thinking that it's not for the betterment of the game.

Why don't we just make all spells and stats for all wizards the same. One spell only from level 1 to max level. Maybe it will make them happy.

I'm just so frustrated with others wanting even more changes.

Who cares if a wizard can reach a high level in any stat. Just play the game.

I would say the idea is not a fix. Because it is not broken.

Why do people want to trash a system that has worked for years?

Maybe because they were unable to adapt? Honestly I don't know.

Bye Peeps
first of all I think you totally missed the entire point. kingsisle has already implemented a scaled critical system. what I am proposing is that gear be standardized much like gear was before celestia and later worlds that changed the armor stat system. like in dragonspyre, the gear dropped in dragonspyre gives same resist if its tier 1, 2, 3, or 4 or however many tiers there was there don't recall now. what they did though is you could find a gear with only health, or only resist, or only damage boost (tier 4) or gear with health and pip chance, or damage and resist, or damage and health (tier 3) or gear with health, pip chance, resist, or health damage, pip chance, or damage, pip chance, resist (tier 2) then finally you had the grand lvl 50 gear (tier 1).

this is what I am suggesting is brought back with instead of 1 set of tier 1 gear, there multiple tier 1 sets to allow players to pick and choose to focus purely on block, or purely on critical or balance of the 2. so rather then only having a helm that gives critical chance, damage, pip chance, resist, pierce, they could get a helm that gives block instead of critical and so forth. what I am saying is give players a choice of gear rather then we bumped the lvl up now your lvl 90/100 gear effectiveness was cut by 20% for lvl 100 gear and by 60% for lvl 90 gear and now healers and tanks are further disenfranchised due to these changes.

here is a class project, get on your lvl 110 character, put on full Aquila lvl 90 gear see what damage, critical percentage, critical block percentage, and pierce is. then put on full morganthe/malistaire lvl 99/100 gear see what damage, critical percentage, critical block percentage and pierce is, then by jolly put on the new stuff and see the differences. they are night and day power jumps each time. and this the thing I don't get, we are in this imbalanced game now because of the power jumps starting with waterworks and each time they do it, it further imbalances game.

Explorer
Jan 30, 2009
59
players can choose to balance gear with 50% critical, 50% block, or 100% critical no chance to block, or 100% chance to block no chance to critical or anywhere between those numbers i.e 60/40, so on so forth. also I would support life and balance being able to choose between damage boost and outgoing heal boost so that they can choose to be effective with damage or effective at heals.

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
39
Chiaki Minami,

I still don't understand why you are stuck in the past. You keep referring to Celestia.

Well I would think that the bosses and game since that area have become much more difficult and challenging. Unless you are asking KI to trash all the areas after Celestia.

If you are wanting gear that is like life then build a life wizard. If you want gear like storm build a storm wizard. I doesn't really matter at the end of the day. KI has provided us with a great place to play and to grow as wizards in the game.
Of course it might not be the ideal game because, of peoples different taste. But for me I think KI has done a great job and I wouldn't change the game. Another point you should still have old gear from the era you keep referring too. So you should put it on and us it it it make you happy. You know you can always change your gear to what ever level you want and make yourself weaker to play the game. Maybe you would get some self-satisfaction and would just enjoy the game as it has evolved.

Bye Peeps

Survivor
Mar 25, 2009
25
I really thought KI tried to fixed this botched Crit/block reduction thing they implemented. Only slightly. Here's how it is on the game for me as a Storm wizard. I am fighting in Poloris in one of its many "Instance" dungeons, so I have to play alone unless someone has the same quest. My friends who are not on that quest can't help me. I have four creatures to fight. I am forced to buy a henchman. (I lose a turn trying to get one because the crown shop is slow). The creatures are hitting with level 100 spells and they usually get to go first. One or two of them Critical and OF COURSE I can't block now with the new system. Without my Life henchman I would be dead, dead, dead in the first round. They are also turning a lot of their attention on my henchman which usually doesn't happen if there is a live wizard there. Before long they have critical'd my little Life Henchman to death so I have to buy another one. I don't have a lot of money so this sucks. If some of the creatures didn't fizzle it would be even deader. I like winning by strategy NOT by luck. So I win most times at great expense, 100-200 health left, no red wisps for the next level, and feeling stressed and angry. KI you have sucked the fun out of this game as most here have pointed out. Suggestions if you are keeping Block the way it is--
1. Do not block any players from an "instance" or dungeon/tower. Friends should be able to help each other.
2. Rig it so the Wizard always goes first
3. Put some red wisps between floors of a darned dungeon/tower!
4. Stop giving enemies full pips to start. It's unfair and is often a slaughter of a lone wizard or even two wizards.
5. And stop the spamming of so many accuracy-reduction spells from creatures. So many spells have them now its like chain-stunning before that was corrected.
6. NEVER FORGET WE ARE HERE FOR FUN

Survivor
Feb 20, 2009
23
I'm very concerned about this new system you've implemented. Fighting the boss in the Mirrior in Avalon for the Lost Pages event today. The boss had crits every 3rd spell ( and every 2nd spell sometimes). My bud and I never blocked. Our crits were down about 40% and the boss always blocked except ONE time. Please just roll back to what was before, at least we could get some blocks in and our crits were as frequent as the bosses when we spent the time to get our gear right.

Bosses getting 5 and 6 power pips right off is unfair.

It would be nice to get to go first.

Don't forget all the real $ we pay you to keep accounts active for kids and grandkids or buy crowns to open area, and all the crowns bought for housing and mounts and all the other stuff.

Explorer
Dec 12, 2012
91
Crit Block needs to be way higher ,,, and crit block should be a lot harder to get. In my opinion, Black Annie is way to powerful with crit. You guys should lower that.

Survivor
Jun 21, 2012
42
I hate this new system because it is unfair in questing combat, many bosses and minions critical a lot but yet I never block much. The old system was better because It allowed the percents to stay high. Now many people will say its not fair in pvp. Practice pvp wont matter if you can use conviction or yourself has a lot of block it would be evened out. The old system worked out for me well, but now me and many others are having trouble with some bosses and battles.

Survivor
Mar 31, 2009
24
Since the update, my critical and critical block percentage slowly kept going down. At 169 critical rate and 113 block I used to have about 28% critical chance and about 21% block and over time my critical is now at 21% and block is at 18%. I have the same gear and everything, but my percentage just keeps getting lower and lower....

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
148
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 28, 2015 wrote:
I am in support of the new critical system. The old critical system was at it's breaking point with no room to grow particularly when it came to designing balanced PvE content. This new system allows us to continue to grow for at least a few updates at which point the system will need to be updated again. This new system also benefits the casual player far more than a continuation of the old system would have.
While I agree with this somewhat, and will not be canceling my subscriptions just yet...all I can say is that I'm glad I am already Level 110 and can get access to (and indeed already have) the gear I need. Azteca was hard enough before the critical 'update', and I wouldn't wanna do Darkmoor again under any circumstances as things stand now.

With the Rasputin drops and the Terror Wand I can indeed get my block up to 100% universal, but I'd sacrifice damage, resist, power pip chance, and critical. Price is a bit too steep for me - at the very least let me keep my resist and pip chance...

Also, I've read the posts concerning Life not being a useful healer...but don't forget Balance and Death have their own heals too! I rarely pack heals anymore because Availing Hands just doesn't cut it without a critical...

I feel that Critical Heal should be a category in and of itself. And in fact, Critical should be divided into 3 multipliers, not just one:

2X damage, 1.5X damage, and 1.25X damage.

Adrian
Level 110 , 70 , 48

PVP Warlord
Promethean Crafter
Grandmaster Gardener

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
148
Intrepidatius on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
I am amazed by how many people here are missing the bigger point; the issue here isn't whether you like this new change to the critical system, or not, it's how it was done. Customers were presented with "critical" in Celestia, and even though myself and many others found it lackluster at best, it is what we were given. Now fast forward several years, after we adjusted to this system, made purchases around it, farmed by it, and centered a lot of our time around it, and suddenly the rules change, and negates all of our hard work, and expenditures. Essentially it is a case of the customers being taken for granted, even if some don't realize it. Change is often needed in these type games, but there is a right and wrong way to do them. Negating cash investments, and countless hours of members utilizing the system, is not the way to invoke change. Critical like many things here needed issues addressed, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. KI you have created a wonderful game, but you are seriously mismanaging it at the moment. If you want to ensure its continued health, then please listen carefully. I addressed this in another post, but i will reiterate the points again:
1) It should be obvious by now a mistake was made with how this system was implemented. Temporarily take it down, and go back to the old system until a better system can be implemented that does no take your paying customers for granted.
2) Separate Critical damage from heals.
3) Separate PvP/PvE once and for all.

If you do these 3 simple things, you will have taken a huge step in restoring the faith of many of your customers.
Agree 100%...

Survivor
Jan 25, 2013
26
I have a question with the critical hit/block. I have critical hit ratings and block ratings, but whenever I do a fire spell (Which mainly all of my critical is in) it never does a critical hit. Or if somebody else hits me with a critical hit, it never blocks it (And I have critical block rating for all schools). Can someone plz tell me if i'm not doing something right or not.

Thanks

Survivor
Jun 10, 2012
14
Dear Kingisle,

Please remove the block and critical decay when leveling up. Aren't people supposed to be more powerful when leveling up? This feature seems counter-productive and should be removed. There is no point in keeping this feature, nor does anyone like it.

The new critical system is bad enough, why do you have to have a decay when leveling with it too?

Survivor
Feb 10, 2010
14
Ok, I know Kingsisle said they fixed the critical and block chance but I don't see a change at all. When fighting Khrysalis bosses, I notice sometimes I block and other times I don't. I have 264 block rating and I only block occasionally, even if it's a low leveled boss. For example, if I fight a boss in Celestia that's rank 5, I don't block their critical. Why does this happen?! Not only with blocking but also when I critical! With my Hades Death wand, my critical rating is between 260-280. I only use this wand when I farm GH (Grizzleheim) bosses, specifically Vestrilund, and I only critical occasionally. These bosses also critical as well and I also occasionally block! I don't get it all Kingsisle.

Does this still happen to anyone else or is it just me?

Kingsisle, please fix this issue

~~~Nicole ShadowDreamer