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Changes to Critical Hit and Critical Block system

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jul 16, 2014
159
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 8, 2015 wrote:
For those claiming that their DM gear is now "worthless" and that at lvl 110 we are no longer as powerful. Both of those statements are demonstrably false. I created a thread over here detailing my perfect sets for PvP and PvE. The thread details every piece of gear and where it is from so you too can acquire the stated stats: Perfected Gear thread.
Ok great for storm which can have everything because game is storm biased. Now show me the set for fire because I'm really interested in what you will come up with.

Hero
Aug 18, 2011
737
Pyle1197 on Dec 9, 2015 wrote:
Ok great for storm which can have everything because game is storm biased. Now show me the set for fire because I'm really interested in what you will come up with.
The game is certainly not 'storm based'. Storm has one key strength, offset by many limitations. Every other school has more health, block, and base accuracy.

Defender
Jul 16, 2014
159
Well all I know is every time I see a good storm they have good health(maybe not the best but more than enough), good block, 100 +pip chance, 5% shadow pip, over 100+ power and also acc and crit. Does not matter if this is achieved thru gear or pet either. Oh and lets not forget their spells as well. I dunno though maybe its just what i see, maybe others can post what they see. Maybe I'm wrong and if I am that's ok, but sure seems to me that other schools have to sacrifice a heck of a lot more than storm does.

Survivor
Dec 09, 2008
15
So this is why I haven't hit criticals that often now. It's really irritating when I am farming. 2 years of updates completely ruined by one update. There wasn't any issue with the old system. All you've done was made farming a lot harder, and pvp a bit more balance.. in my opinion you should be focusing less on pvp and more on the actual game. Or Separate how things work in pvp and how things work in pve. I know full well you could do that.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1009
Pyle1197 on Dec 9, 2015 wrote:
Ok great for storm which can have everything because game is storm biased. Now show me the set for fire because I'm really interested in what you will come up with.
I'm not even going to bother addressing your ludicrous statement that the game is "storm biased".

Here is fire's "perfect set" for PvE

Shroud of Malistaire's Ire
Cloak of Malistaire's Ire
Boots of Malistaire's Ire
Vigilant's Searing Blade
Lieutenant Snow's Incendiary Amulet
Rasputin's Deck of Gall
Lvl 110 Terror's hoard pack
Pip Jewels x2, Piercing Jewels x3, Health Jewels x3
Pet: Proof, Defy, Dual Attack, Heal, Accuracy Pet Jewel.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3171
TheDuckStopsHere on Dec 7, 2015 wrote:
What it boils down to is this: The higher you go, the worse the gear gets. What you get in Polaris is appalling. Dropped? Purchase? No no no! OMG, why are we being handicapped so badly?

Sure, the mega farming elitists think everything is hunky dory and the worlds are too easy now, so let's forget about the little everyday people that try to play and have FUN. STOP saying the world(s)/Bosses are too easy! The majority of players think it's just fine or too hard!

Darkmoor? What a joke. None of my wizards have gone through, because they keep getting "kicked out" of the group, or the group doesn't finish the dungeon and just leaves. I guess if you weren't one of the lucky few who went into DM within the first couple of days, too bad, because those who went through it won't help or stay long enough for you to finish.

I AM a casual player, even though I have crafted gear and 'perfect' pets (at least perfect for me). Farming dungeons like DM is tedious and boring, especially since it can take you MONTHS (if ever) to get decent gear.

So, don't tell me DM is optional, because it's not any more. The gear and spell are necessary to be able to complete Polaris, especially Rasputin. My Storm is good, but doesn't meet the 'recommended stats' that are required to defeat Rasputin. I've put together the best gear I can. It's nothing to sneeze at, and is better than most casual players out there, but I feel as though I'm going to fail miserably every time and never finish Polaris. Does that make me want to continue to play? NO.
^^^
this.

i am a casual player as well, even though i have crafted gear and several decent pets. i play(ed) the game for fun, to unwind and escape from the daily grind, until it became the daily grind. i mean, i haven't had any fun since avalon... and that was 3 worlds ago, but i digress.

(don't get me wrong~ azteca, darkmoor, and polaris are beautiful, and i wanted so badly to enjoy them; i loved the stories and art for all 3 worlds, but i just couldn't get past the annoying cheaty instances/stale character development/stats being nerfed~ khrysalis was dreary and depressing. and, by the time morganthe's motives were actually made clear, i didn't care.

/tangent rant.

i *did* do darkmoor on one wizard (because we were almost 2 years with no new content and i had 3 wizards at max who'd run out of stuff to do), since i figured that the stats on it would be needed to survive and i wanted to see how it would compare to the crafted setups i'd used for my other wizards.

it took me 5 months to see my first piece of gear, and 9 months to get the full set. it was a stressful, annoying 9 months, and i haven't been back since. the other night, a friend asked me for help in there~ even though he assured me that it had been nerfed, and that drops had increased, i still said no. i want no part of castle dread-more, now or ever.

So, don't tell me DM is optional, because it's not any more.

i agree, though i don't think it was ever optional to begin with~ as i've been saying for months, if it is the best gear in game and has no crafted or purchasable alternative, then it is not optional.i don't plan to do any questing in polaris, or at all, at least until the crit/block system is fixed.-von

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
NO everyone has the system all wrong its all random no matter how much block you have you can still get landed on. After testing this system, I get landed on by a jade life where in math does that supposed to happen, then uses a wand hit( not school related) lucky critical and still lands. its the same as before just even more RANDOM!!

match a ratio of:31% chance to land, and 52% to block how does a land bypass that

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
Pyle1197 on Dec 7, 2015 wrote:
I'm level 110 fire. With this latest update i can get my crit back to 100 but in doing so now my other stats are trash. If I do 100% crit then my power pip chance drops to like 71% and my shadow pup drops to like 4% and my block well best I can get it is 13%. I also do not get to use any of the cool spells like the new Morganthe or the Ares spell because of the deck and wand I have to use to achive that 100% crit. I can't use my may cast wand anymore now or I also sacrifice pip and acc etc. it's extremely hard to find a good balance now. My pre patch gear I had 102% crit with 51% resists, and 101% pip chance with 5% power pip chance, block I'm not sure about due to how it was calculated but i do know I blocked about 90% of Crits on me.(I do not pvp this is all pve). These were good stats for my fire but now trying to find something similar just makes my head hurt. I now lose acc, power pips, shadow pips, may cast wand, new spells or something else. Also most of my dark more gear now is still useless except the robe I believe. This new system even with the newest tweak is still turing me off of this game.
yes I have tried so many combinations and still does not balance right in no way, worst for PVP its been times where ill just use my old stats but still low wanting to rely on critical to do so,,, but I guess it don't even matter since its all RANDOM. I:

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
we will have to wait on until another world or even next couple of worlds until we get new gear then everything might be the same, and then the system might be actually balanced out, as for what k I is planning to be done just gotta wait... but the system itself just don't work mathematically.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1127
zachery NS on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
NO everyone has the system all wrong its all random no matter how much block you have you can still get landed on. After testing this system, I get landed on by a jade life where in math does that supposed to happen, then uses a wand hit( not school related) lucky critical and still lands. its the same as before just even more RANDOM!!

match a ratio of:31% chance to land, and 52% to block how does a land bypass that
Because it's a "chance". Nothing is certain. A 99% "chance" of success means there's always going to be a 1% chance of failure.

Defender
Nov 24, 2012
124
zachery NS on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
we will have to wait on until another world or even next couple of worlds until we get new gear then everything might be the same, and then the system might be actually balanced out, as for what k I is planning to be done just gotta wait... but the system itself just don't work mathematically.
Who's going to want to wait until a new world comes out to see if anything is improved? There is no need to wait that long. Improvements can be done now. It may take some time, but it most certainly does not have to take a new world to see improvements.

Delver
Mar 13, 2010
299
Dr Von on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
^^^
this.

i am a casual player as well, even though i have crafted gear and several decent pets. i play(ed) the game for fun, to unwind and escape from the daily grind, until it became the daily grind. i mean, i haven't had any fun since avalon... and that was 3 worlds ago, but i digress.

(don't get me wrong~ azteca, darkmoor, and polaris are beautiful, and i wanted so badly to enjoy them; i loved the stories and art for all 3 worlds, but i just couldn't get past the annoying cheaty instances/stale character development/stats being nerfed~ khrysalis was dreary and depressing. and, by the time morganthe's motives were actually made clear, i didn't care.

/tangent rant.

i *did* do darkmoor on one wizard (because we were almost 2 years with no new content and i had 3 wizards at max who'd run out of stuff to do), since i figured that the stats on it would be needed to survive and i wanted to see how it would compare to the crafted setups i'd used for my other wizards.

it took me 5 months to see my first piece of gear, and 9 months to get the full set. it was a stressful, annoying 9 months, and i haven't been back since. the other night, a friend asked me for help in there~ even though he assured me that it had been nerfed, and that drops had increased, i still said no. i want no part of castle dread-more, now or ever.

So, don't tell me DM is optional, because it's not any more.

i agree, though i don't think it was ever optional to begin with~ as i've been saying for months, if it is the best gear in game and has no crafted or purchasable alternative, then it is not optional.i don't plan to do any questing in polaris, or at all, at least until the crit/block system is fixed.-von
But it *is* Optional. It always was, and the following world (Polaris) does not *in the slightest* require this gear. Khrysalis Crafted would be entirely sufficient, and my Balance may well be questing Polaris in it as she has no questing partners currently to faem Darkmoor with.

Disclaimer: Rasputin. I'm not sure what they're thinking with the end-world boss. He does require at least one person in the instance to have either the gear and/or the spell. The alternative of "Spam him till you kill him" doesn't always work. Without minion-killing pierce, he's too much. HE needs to be changed.

Mastermind
Apr 13, 2011
390
so I am here asking my fellow wizards that have had issues with with the critical revamps, that if everything is ok now. Since they updated mobs and bosses is everything like the way it should be now or atleast better than it was before the enemies were fixed?

Survivor
Oct 01, 2014
41
the awesome pyroma... on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
so I am here asking my fellow wizards that have had issues with with the critical revamps, that if everything is ok now. Since they updated mobs and bosses is everything like the way it should be now or atleast better than it was before the enemies were fixed?
I would say no to "is everything like it should be". Even though they added about 10% to my block doesn't make up for the other about 20% of block or critical still gone on gear I had already won or bought. And from what I'm seeing with the rng in charge I'm getting more criticals come though then before the last adjustment. But I guess that is normal when you go from knowing the gear and foes to a blind luck system. To me this whole critical wasn't any kind of fix. It was just a mistake from the start.

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
TucsonWizard on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
Because it's a "chance". Nothing is certain. A 99% "chance" of success means there's always going to be a 1% chance of failure.
since you so smart, explain a person having 10% chance to critical and another having 80% to block,if a person lands don't you think that is broken? the fact that that person don't have 100% critical what sence does that makes?

getting landed on from a less percentage then your block is completely broken, if so then why we have block in the first place to protect us k I should let us run wild with critical if that's the case.

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
Angel of Solitude on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
Who's going to want to wait until a new world comes out to see if anything is improved? There is no need to wait that long. Improvements can be done now. It may take some time, but it most certainly does not have to take a new world to see improvements.
True, but lol like I don't know that,but that is what we always had to do is wait like how critical changed big with Darkmoor gear compared the hades era. And happy that you say the word time because that just means waiting until something is done if you think about it.

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
39
Pyle1197 on Dec 9, 2015 wrote:
Ok great for storm which can have everything because game is storm biased. Now show me the set for fire because I'm really interested in what you will come up with.

Ok peeps this is so laughable.

You are so correct with your statement. I have storm friends that stats are much better than mine in all categories. This is because of the darkmoor gear. There resist was even boosted compared to other schools.

I know because i had a max level storm which I deleted, because I found the other schools more of a challenge.

Now in regards to the stats now. Storms stats are still better for max level wiz. I routinely see damages of 140 to 150. as well as high criticals. All I can say is be happy storm wizards.

The new changes has crippled my questing ability for most of my wizards. So all i can say is look around and be happy that your hits were not reduced by 45 percent.

If you ask me KI should of just reduced the storm wizards stats. That would of made game more balanced.

It seems no one gets it. Unless you had great stats the critical changes hurt the weaker wizards more. Well let us look at the weaker wizards. lol all schools that are not storm.

*****The changes in critical affect everyone badly***** but storm the least.

People on here want to give there opinions on how to tweek the game this or that way. You only look at it from what benefits yourself.

KI I please ask that you improve critical stats for other schools instead of a blanket adjustment. I see some schools as being able to get to level 200 before there stats are even close to some storm wizards.

OK peeps

I'm sorry if ya think i'm a storm basher. (i'm not) I just get tired of all the it affect me mentality. Instead of it affect us.

Please reply

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
Pyle1197 on Dec 10, 2015 wrote:
Well all I know is every time I see a good storm they have good health(maybe not the best but more than enough), good block, 100 +pip chance, 5% shadow pip, over 100+ power and also acc and crit. Does not matter if this is achieved thru gear or pet either. Oh and lets not forget their spells as well. I dunno though maybe its just what i see, maybe others can post what they see. Maybe I'm wrong and if I am that's ok, but sure seems to me that other schools have to sacrifice a heck of a lot more than storm does.
so true, but storm having op stats that's just storm, but compared to fire and the other schools they need it more then others. yes I feel the same way because fire is supposed to be second strongest by anything stats spells what ever, but by stats: having life, death and ice catch up just don't feel right, feels like I need to transfer schools.

you just prob feel the same way, who knows that's prob how every school feel like between life and ice maybe and fire and the other schools with the big rise of Darkmoor.

Survivor
Sep 13, 2012
39
Please give it a try and see the how the changes impact your gameplay in practice. We take your feedback very seriously (both positive and negative).

OK Peeps:
Well I have tired like you asked Drake, over and over. I'm finding that you were right that the changes would impact my game play. (it absolutely did no positives)

Now i'm wondering if this is how the game is really suppose to work as you said.
The reason I pose this questions.

1. I have heard that the bosses were changed ( all though I not seen this myself)
2. There had to be changes once the new system was implemented.
3. Adjustments were made for life wizards.

So from what I see it was not the way it was suppose to work. Because there are changes being made. Maybe it was just a bad idea. As for taking feedback I have not really noticed that it has been responded to or attempts made to improve it. **Again no positives**

I still think that stats should be available to the left under the posters name so we can see what other people are commenting with similar stats. ( people that are level 30 have a total different perspective)

Either way I think the changes have caused a definite rift within the wizard community.

We are still not hearing anything from the top down. But try it. ( I did not satisfied anymore) and don't know if I ever can be because, I have no idea what is next. Maybe we should just all sit in the commons. At least I would die from boredom and not disgust.

Cya Peeps

Hero
Aug 18, 2011
737
@DrVon - DM gear is certainlly optional. You could play PL in Waterworks stuff. IT's not that hard.

@Zachery - the new system isn't based on ratio. 52% chance to block is 48% chance not to block. You're only slightly better off than a coin toss there. Yes, it's random. The math works, chance is chance, as Tucson said.

@Awesome Pyro - The game is playable as it is now, and many things aren't affected. I'd suggest looking at Eric Stormbringer's suggestions, here and on Central and Duelist, he's worked out some good balanced builds for the current meta.

I don't like the crit system change, not because it hugely affects play (it doesn't) but because it didn't address the biggest problems, and won't be sustainable long term, so it's just setting up the need for another change in another 10 or 20 levels. With better planning it would have been easy to make adjustments that could have fixed things once and for all, and been less disruptive.

That said, we can go on with what we have now. The game is still fun, and the new content is great.

Explorer
Jun 06, 2009
50
Pyle1197 on Dec 9, 2015 wrote:
Ok great for storm which can have everything because game is storm biased. Now show me the set for fire because I'm really interested in what you will come up with.

MY one fire is now ready to enter the mines. He does wear the top darkmoor hat, and the second tier boots, his robe is the khrysalis crafted robe, his wand the universal terror horde 100, he has morganthe's amulet and athame, and alpha ring. my new pet (won by my ice earlier) is a epic no healing seal pup, it has pierce and crit.I solo almost all the time, occassionally I will hire salvus in a small boss battle if necessary. I cirt , I block, and sometimes I don't- but its always been that way.
My other fire is just past the tuna ship, she has krokopetra hat, kr crafted robe, and boots from last years yuletide pack- royal fusiliers. She has athame from darkmoor and amulet from morganthe and Aphrodite ring. her pet is a nightmare- not pack one, this is from the very old recipe- so no fancy traits.
I love my storm but I love my fires just as much.
I gave up on farming darkmoor and the duels for robes! time and crowns were the issue. WHen they get the bull spells , watch out darkmoor part 3 , I shall return!!

People of all schools need to remember the days , years, it took to get where we are in the worlds. WC gear barely got you into mid krok, that gear barely got you to MB, and so on. I have to say tho, as a crafter, the crafter gear lasts much longer. The decay , to me is normal because it's always been there and is natural.

I never had my storm to the high crit numbers I read here sometimes- I balance my stats, always have.As long as we have the opportunity to raise those stats, we should be fine.

I played Diablo and Sacred for years. Same thing, gear stats decay as you went higher in the games. Yes your health increases and other inbred stats. But gear should be replaced! In real life, new wars are not fought with gear from older wars if they want to be successful!

Defender
Nov 24, 2012
124
MADISON461J on Dec 11, 2015 wrote:
Please give it a try and see the how the changes impact your gameplay in practice. We take your feedback very seriously (both positive and negative).

OK Peeps:
Well I have tired like you asked Drake, over and over. I'm finding that you were right that the changes would impact my game play. (it absolutely did no positives)

Now i'm wondering if this is how the game is really suppose to work as you said.
The reason I pose this questions.

1. I have heard that the bosses were changed ( all though I not seen this myself)
2. There had to be changes once the new system was implemented.
3. Adjustments were made for life wizards.

So from what I see it was not the way it was suppose to work. Because there are changes being made. Maybe it was just a bad idea. As for taking feedback I have not really noticed that it has been responded to or attempts made to improve it. **Again no positives**

I still think that stats should be available to the left under the posters name so we can see what other people are commenting with similar stats. ( people that are level 30 have a total different perspective)

Either way I think the changes have caused a definite rift within the wizard community.

We are still not hearing anything from the top down. But try it. ( I did not satisfied anymore) and don't know if I ever can be because, I have no idea what is next. Maybe we should just all sit in the commons. At least I would die from boredom and not disgust.

Cya Peeps
Adjustments were made for life wizards.

Could you please state the adjustments you are speaking of? I've been reading the Update Notes, and I have not come across anything regarding your statement—did I miss something? In what way(s) was the Life school adjusted?

So from what I see it was not the way it was suppose to work. Because there are changes being made.

You brought up a good point; however, they are humans and they will make mistakes, but it is also their responsibility to fix their mistakes.

Defender
Oct 22, 2012
133
With the new system from some of the new pack gear I've seen, you seem to be replacing growth in flat rate block and critical in wands, etc with higher amounts of pierce. The recent growth in pierce before was high, but now it looks like that has accelerated. What will happen when you hit 100% pierce? With a small change in the old critical system I think you could make it so it could go on indefinitely. With out having to go to a faster rate of pierce growth.

The old system appeared to work if someones flat block was higher then the foes flat critical you blocked. And if the foes critical was higher then your block it turn to a ration between the two to get a percentage. If you were to go back to something close to that system but raise the bosses critical flat rate. to over what can be achieved at a world/level you could make it so 100% block would not happen. Bosses and mobs would need to have set critical cast rate percentages, since you would be raising the flat critical as levels get higher. Also instead of some of the wands etc. raising at 10 flat rate each time how about 5?

By doing this you could also get rid of the block decay. The critical part would have to continue with a decay factor. One improvement that would be seen at least in the block from the old system is at least in block you wouldn't have any kind of "penalty" for over leveling your wizard.

Defender
Oct 22, 2012
133
I forgot to add this as a suggestion on the critical system. This is a personal opinion, but to me I think it would help the deal that people can have every spell critical. If the chart for achieving 100% critical wasn't straight line but a bell curve where after a point it takes a larger flat rate for each percent gained. You could make it so 100% isn't obtainable.

Survivor
Oct 16, 2013
5
KI,
I'm still very disappointed in the changes especially for Life's critical heals and critical block. The very small heal bonus is worthless given how seldom we critical now. Now that everyone can heal with a Life mastery amulet and a small selection of treasure cards, there isn't anything that Life can do better than other schools to offset our anemic damage spells.

I'm also very disappointed in the very weak new Life spell with very little damage and very little heal. I think most of us have had to give up our higher damage armor to get higher block chances which has made us totally ineffective hitting. What we could use is a high Life damage spell to offset some of the damage we had to give up to get higher block chances. Now KI has taken away most of Life's critical heals then KI should be decent enough to give us an effective damage spell.

Our memberships renewed in early November before all the changes. I'm not sure whether I will be renewing next November. I've probably spent a couple thousand dollars on this game for me and my kids over the last couple years. I have already decided not to spend more money this Christmas on Wizard 101 card packs or crowns, if ever.