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seriouse inbalance

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 23, 2009
42
No pun intended but I am a balance wizard.

The 2 main problems I have right now are 1 card and 1 minion severally out of balance (No pun intended again).

1 Hydra - 195 att of fire, ice, and storm. If you use this against an elemental you basicly only get 2 attcks @ 195/ech. Even with all 3 it's less then 600 dm with a 6 pip card. with a 6 pip Judgment (Which you get a lot sooner) you get 600 minus any mod cards.

The Hydra is THE top card for the school. I think it either needs to have dmg increased per element or just changed from being purely elemental for a "Balance" card.

2 Fire Elemental Minion on the Tri minion card. The fire minion can only use 2 attacks (Plus mod cards) Fire Tiger, and Sprite. It doesn't use any 3 pip spells at all. I dread this one every time it is summoned. Also it seems when ever you fight an elemental boss you summon (90%) of the time at least the exact same element even when you do it several times int he fight to get something different.

I have one more issue and thats with the tri elemental attack card. it has a decent storm att, and ok fire, and a horrible ice for a 4 pip attack. This is the "Balance" school even if you pull the storm dmg down to compensate you need to put the ice up so I don't get angry every time it does an ice attack making the attack and 4 pips wasted almost useless.

Thx, not trying to be negative just want to see more "Balance" int he balance attcks not asking for god lvl attacks just more balance in the pip - attack ratio and the minion usefulness.

Defender
Mar 08, 2009
144
Survivor
May 23, 2009
42
Proman1355 wrote:
Judgement = most epicly awesome balance spell :D


Yes but even maxed out with a 20% all boost card, a personal 25% boost as well as a 30% hex it still does under 3k and death friends of mine do up to 9k on a single card. plus they heal at the same time.

when I max my hydras I do about the same dmg with only 6 pips instead of a full line of power pips.

Survivor
Jan 31, 2009
23
Ice has high defense, and low attack. So thats why Hydra has a low ice attack hit. Storm has high attack, and low defense. Fire has moderate attack and defense.(i think) Hope i helped


Tara Thunderheart lv. 25 Ice Wizard

Defender
Apr 25, 2009
104
Balance is "Jack of all trades, master of none." So therefore it isn't as powerful as other schools. They're a nuisance in PvP with their weakness spell though.

Survivor
Apr 15, 2009
26
Darthmalius wrote:

Yes but even maxed out with a 20% all boost card, a personal 25% boost as well as a 30% hex it still does under 3k and death friends of mine do up to 9k on a single card.


Not possible. You only include three of your self buffs. Giving Death the Wraith treasure card, level 50 gear, Deathblade, Deathtrap, Curse, and Feint (all the self buffs), you are only looking at around 3,000 damage. Your friends are stacking a lot more shields than that.

The same can be done for Balance. Add in Judgement treasure card, level 50 gear, Balanceblade, Hex, Bladestorm, Feint, and Curse, and you are also around the 10k range. True, that is with a full line of pips. And true, non-balance classes can reach much higher than judgement ever will, because they can stack their own element buffs, balance buffs, and use a prism to add on opposite school buffs. However, in regular every day battles, judgement does more than enough damage to compete with other classes.

When I play my Death in regular fights in DS, my spell line up goes Deathblade, Deathtrap, Feint, Wraith. This allows me to send out 2,000 damage wraiths every four rounds. Balance doing similar with Balanceblade, Hex, Bladestorm, Judgement, will net around 1,600 damage (6 pip judgement). But lets say you are a smart wizard and pick up feint, switch bladestorm out for feint, and you are dealing around 2,300 damage on a 6 pip judgement, using an almost identical spell line up to Death.

Yes, wraith also heals, but I will be the first to admit (even death being my favorite school) that wraith heals for way too much. But as far as damage goes, Judgement falls in line with every other school.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
One of the only reasons balance can do so well in the arena is because its extremely difficult to shield against judgment, since their are no balance shields. If there was a balance shield, then balance would be truly underpowered.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
You forgot Spirit Blade and Spirit Trap...and any treasure cards, or items that boost.

Survivor
May 23, 2009
42
cbfan14 wrote:
One of the only reasons balance can do so well in the arena is because its extremely difficult to shield against judgment, since their are no balance shields. If there was a balance shield, then balance would be truly underpowered.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer


Actually weakness works on balance, and spirit armor as well as tower shields so it is possible to really bring down balance attacks even judgment. I know I have been trying to defeat Flamewing in Ds and they keep casting tower on her in 3 - 4's so even my Hydra can't do any dmg.

BTW Hydra does equal dmg on all elements to the person mentioning the differences in elemental dmg from a hydra.

I would have prefered either a single dragon with higher dmg or let the Hydra attack more then one enemy per turn that would be a little better I think.

Defender
May 15, 2009
196
Blazian wrote:
Balance is "Jack of all trades, master of none." So therefore it isn't as powerful as other schools...

That alone doesn't mean the school "isn't as powerful as other schools"; you'll have to make that argument with specifics.

"Jack of all trades, master of none." means that while there are no particularly strong upsides, there are no particular weaknesses or vulnerabilities either. That doesn't imply an overall lack of strength.

Darthmalius wrote:

1 Hydra - 195 att of fire, ice, and storm. If you use this against an elemental you basicly only get 2 attcks @ 195/ech. Even with all 3 it's less then 600 dm with a 6 pip card. with a 6 pip Judgment (Which you get a lot sooner) you get 600 minus any mod cards. ..

You overlooked that the opposing element of the resisted element will be boosted by an equal percentage (e.g. if it resists ice, fire will be boosted). That is one significant benefit to this card in that, unlike any attacks from elemental schools, balance's elemental attack can't be resisted innately, eliminating the need for prisms.

Darthmalius wrote:

I have one more issue and thats with the tri elemental attack card. it has a decent storm att, and ok fire, and a horrible ice for a 4 pip attack. This is the "Balance" school even if you pull the storm dmg down to compensate you need to put the ice up so I don't get angry every time it does an ice attack making the attack and 4 pips wasted almost useless.

Storm's damage can't be nerfed otherwise you aren't representing storm. Ice's damage can't be high or you aren't representing ice. Storm's 4-mana Kraken deals 520-580 damage while Balance's representation of it does 550 damage, right in the middle; Ice's 4-mana Ice Wyvern deals 335-395 damage, making your Spectral Blast deal 365 damage. Sure, you don't have Ice's beefy health to offset your lower damage, but you don't have a risky 70% accuracy offsetting your high storm damage either. It's beautifully balanced, actually.

Survivor
May 23, 2009
42
RoloX2 wrote:
Blazian wrote:
Balance is "Jack of all trades, master of none." So therefore it isn't as powerful as other schools...

That alone doesn't mean the school "isn't as powerful as other schools"; you'll have to make that argument with specifics.

"Jack of all trades, master of none." means that while there are no particularly strong upsides, there are no particular weaknesses or vulnerabilities either. That doesn't imply an overall lack of strength.


I agree 100% Judgment is a powerful spell it's just not AS powerful as other schools have. So there isn't a real lack of power at all.

Darthmalius wrote:

1 Hydra - 195 att of fire, ice, and storm. If you use this against an elemental you basicly only get 2 attcks @ 195/ech. Even with all 3 it's less then 600 dm with a 6 pip card. with a 6 pip Judgment (Which you get a lot sooner) you get 600 minus any mod cards. ..

You overlooked that the opposing element of the resisted element will be boosted by an equal percentage (e.g. if it resists ice, fire will be boosted). That is one significant benefit to this card in that, unlike any attacks from elemental schools, balance's elemental attack can't be resisted innately, eliminating the need for prisms.

No I didn't overlook it. Boost from what I have seen gives you something like a 5 or 10% increase but resistance on most of the guys I have fought varies and can be up to 70-80%, So that never balances out. You boost on say fire and do an extra 100 dmg (If your lucky) on an attack that Nativity does less then 200. Then you hit with say Ice which does around 50 dmg if your lucky. That's not balance. Then the third attack again does less then 200. So for a Master Spell from a school you do with 6 pips less then 500 dmg and that's rounding up. That's less then 100 dmg per pip and even with out resistances or boost it's still less. Most Bosses over rank 1 do as good as 100 dmg on a one pip hit.

it's not that I don't like Hydra I just don't see how it can be the Master level spell. I know there is a Grandmaster in DS (If I could ever find somebody to help me though it there) but that was an add on. As it was created Hydra was the top Balance school spell.


Darthmalius wrote:

I have one more issue and thats with the tri elemental attack card. it has a decent storm att, and ok fire, and a horrible ice for a 4 pip attack. This is the "Balance" school even if you pull the storm dmg down to compensate you need to put the ice up so I don't get angry every time it does an ice attack making the attack and 4 pips wasted almost useless.

Storm's damage can't be nerfed otherwise you aren't representing storm. Ice's damage can't be high or you aren't representing ice. Storm's 4-mana Kraken deals 520-580 damage while Balance's representation of it does 550 damage, right in the middle; Ice's 4-mana Ice Wyvern deals 335-395 damage, making your Spectral Blast deal 365 damage. Sure, you don't have Ice's beefy health to offset your lower damage, but you don't have a risky 70% accuracy offsetting your high storm damage either. It's beautifully balanced, actually.


That's true if you want to draw school to school comparisons. However balance is not all schools it is a separate school. The school is supposed to be about balance not adopting other school stuff. it uses the other school powers but in unique ways. therefore it shouldn't be based on the other school power percentages because it should be based on how the balance masters have combined it. the whole school is about balance. Balancing everything. Not proportions as the other schools mastered them.

You mentioned Ice vs health and Storm Vs Fizz. That's the strength and weakness of those schools not the elements themselves. In balance they should be equal that's what Balance is about.

Like I said I'd take the reduction in Storm power to get the Ice more equal. These aren't Boss killing cards they are just decent middle ground dmg cards and when you use them you should be able to count on a certain dmg range. Also As far as the fizz in storm goes they have a specific fizz reducing spell and if you combine that with the balance precision spell that gets it pretty good.

I just think Balance school spells should be about....balance not a reflection of other schools that's just makes it seem like the poor cousin in magic instead of an independent school.

Or it should be the school you learn before you learn your real school so you can learn the strengths and weaknesses of the other school in order to make a better decision. But then you would need the ability to switch schools at some point. But since this is a separate school it should be treated as such instead of the shadow of the other schools.

Survivor
May 21, 2009
1
cbfan14 wrote:
One of the only reasons balance can do so well in the arena is because its extremely difficult to shield against judgment, since their are no balance shields. If there was a balance shield, then balance would be truly underpowered.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer


Can someone please tell me where or when a Balance wizard recieve the judgement card. I'm level 30 Balance Wizard and I don't have a judgement card. I'm not sure I even understand what it does. Even after reading the message boards. Please help! :?
Gabriel Dragon Walker

Survivor
Jul 10, 2008
3
You need to go to the Balance school and there should be a spell questing waiting for you. Once you do the quest, you will get judgement.

Hope that helps :D

Geographer
Feb 14, 2009
835
Darthmalius wrote:
2 Fire Elemental Minion on the Tri minion card. The fire minion can only use 2 attacks (Plus mod cards) Fire Tiger, and Sprite. It doesn't use any 3 pip spells at all. I dread this one every time it is summoned. Also it seems when ever you fight an elemental boss you summon (90%) of the time at least the exact same element even when you do it several times int he fight to get something different.

"
fire cat and fire elf lol

Defender
Sep 28, 2008
105

Can someone please tell me where or when a Balance wizard recieve the judgement card. I'm level 30 Balance Wizard and I don't have a judgement card. I'm not sure I even understand what it does. Even after reading the message boards. Please help! :?
Gabriel Dragon Walker


You should very soon get the quest for your Judgement card. Ally, as I call her, does 100 damage per pip. Add that together with the balance blade and bladestorm plus the hex and a full row of power pips and you are looking at a very short fight. With the buffs that balance school offers and those of my secondary school, I chose death as my secondary, I have personally done over five thousand damage with her.

Add to that the Hydra and its buffs, the elemental blades and traps plus the balance blade and bladestorm and it does a sweet attack as well. I'll offer this tip to those who say the hydra is weak, use three balance blades, one per school, and three buffs, again one per school. You'll find a great improvement in its performance.

As for the Spectral Attack, weak? I think not. If you are not getting good results from your hits, look at what you are using. Are you buffing it? You have the elemental traps and blades, plus the balance blades and bladestorm, then add to that the hex. Are you using those or relying on a "naked" hit and hoping for the best? If you do not take the time to prep an attack, you WILL NOT get the best results regardless of what you use to attack. I would look a little closer at what you are using to buff and not at what the card says its damage is actually with a naked hit.

Your Balance, take full advantage of what you have. Buff, buff, and then buff. With all the shields that balance school alone has, not to mention any that your secondary school offers, you have the advantage of relaxing a little and taking the time to buff, even if you are not after the "big" hits, buffing assures the shorter battles. Shorter battles means more time to enjoy the game and advance.

Use what you have to the fullest of its abilities and maximize its potential and you will be surprised at the results you can get. Balance is just that, its a balance of all schools. You want hard hitters and high numbers? Your in the wrong school, Balance is not that. Balance ensures just that, Balance.

My two cents,

James DreamRider
Master lvl 45
Balance Wizard

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
That is one significant benefit to this card in that, unlike any attacks from elemental schools, balance's elemental attack can't be resisted innately, eliminating the need for prisms.

And how does this help when fighting Monsters and Bosses who are Balance?
Especially when they throw up their own TripElemental Shield?

Add to that the Hydra and its buffs, the elemental blades and traps plus the balance blade and bladestorm and it does a sweet attack as well. I'll offer this tip to those who say the hydra is weak, use three balance blades, one per school, and three buffs, again one per school. You'll find a great improvement in its performance.


The time it takes to set this up is time wasted when any of several elemental shields can (and do) come out. Better to just buff a Judgment.

Spectral Blast and Hydra are complete wastes. The unpredictability of Spectral Blast always seems to fall on the low end of its potential and a lone Weakness can totally cripple every head on a Hydra. Better to use Sandstorms and Locust Swarm. On top of this, Elemental is a completely different Deck set up than a Judgment Deck. Tripblades and Triptraps take pips to cast. Better to just spend a pip on Feint and build up a quick Judgment oneshot. Sorry, but it's true and this has transferred over to the Arena.

The OP is right. These spells need to be looked at and possibly redesigned. While your at it, also look at our Field spell Power Play. Now that monster can powerpip, this spell is totally pointless. It was even before this change, but even more so now.

A Balance Wizard receives nothing of any usefulness after Judgment. Make some changes and perhaps there might even be some new PvP strats and people will stop complaining about Judgment.

Defender
Aug 02, 2008
176
I'll tell you what school is unbalanced is the ICE wizard
Forget trying to Solo with this school actualy it is the weakest school,
IMO. Health HA! you die so fast asp. in Krok, I'm going to buy my points back and try another school cause this one blows.


Defender
Apr 24, 2009
125
SyphaN wrote:
I'll tell you what school is unbalanced is the ICE wizard
Forget trying to Solo with this school actualy it is the weakest school,
IMO. Health HA! you die so fast asp. in Krok, I'm going to buy my points back and try another school cause this one blows.



You can only buy back the secondary school skill points. Ice may not be a damage hog but when you have more health than anyone in the game and plus at level 18 you get Ice Armor which protects you from 125 damage per pip. I have soloed much with my Ice and you may not be able to oneshot enemies that arent fire resistant but you will last longer in a fight than the other non-ice wizards.

Survivor
Dec 30, 2008
24
RoloX2 wrote:
Blazian wrote:
Balance is "Jack of all trades, master of none." So therefore it isn't as powerful as other schools...

That alone doesn't mean the school "isn't as powerful as other schools"; you'll have to make that argument with specifics.

"Jack of all trades, master of none." means that while there are no particularly strong upsides, there are no particular weaknesses or vulnerabilities either. That doesn't imply an overall lack of strength.

Darthmalius wrote:

1 Hydra - 195 att of fire, ice, and storm. If you use this against an elemental you basicly only get 2 attcks @ 195/ech. Even with all 3 it's less then 600 dm with a 6 pip card. with a 6 pip Judgment (Which you get a lot sooner) you get 600 minus any mod cards. ..

You overlooked that the opposing element of the resisted element will be boosted by an equal percentage (e.g. if it resists ice, fire will be boosted). That is one significant benefit to this card in that, unlike any attacks from elemental schools, balance's elemental attack can't be resisted innately, eliminating the need for prisms.

Darthmalius wrote:

I have one more issue and thats with the tri elemental attack card. it has a decent storm att, and ok fire, and a horrible ice for a 4 pip attack. This is the "Balance" school even if you pull the storm dmg down to compensate you need to put the ice up so I don't get angry every time it does an ice attack making the attack and 4 pips wasted almost useless.

Storm's damage can't be nerfed otherwise you aren't representing storm. Ice's damage can't be high or you aren't representing ice. Storm's 4-mana Kraken deals 520-580 damage while Balance's representation of it does 550 damage, right in the middle; Ice's 4-mana Ice Wyvern deals 335-395 damage, making your Spectral Blast deal 365 damage. Sure, you don't have Ice's beefy health to offset your lower damage, but you don't have a risky 70% accuracy offsetting your high storm damage either. It's beautifully balanced, actually.
you are a serious genius who else would've seen that if it hasnt been seen already. all of that stuff up there congrats on being a genius

Explorer
Feb 11, 2009
86
Let me first start off by saying i dont pvp so my opinion leans more to the storyline aspects.

I have had great success with both the hydra and the spectral blast. the blast powers up rapidly in a fight and gives you a good hit fast. when used with all the various aids that balance gets, it works well. Hydra works good because of the weakeness vs resistance aspects of the card, you can hit anything, and if you use your tools right it packs a wallup, plus when used alone its a great shield buster.

Judgement may work great in pvp, but in storyline its my closer, its always there to give out the finishing damage to a target, but its not my main attack, mainly because in order to get good damage it has to build up and then use traps and charms, takes a lot of time. your spectral blast, if used correctly, is your best friend in pvc battles.

Part of balances success is learning how to use all your charms, traps and shields correctly. in a group setting load up on your non attack cards and your healing cards and you can make the whole group stronger. Solo, take a good mix and you should be able to hit anything pretty much at will.

Survivor
Dec 12, 2008
10
well i dont know why everybody complain about judgement. one thing people from other schools dont understand is how hard it is to get judgement to do that high of damage. when ever i try to kill people in arena in one hit with judgement i normally die trying. why doesnt anybody complain about tempest to me it worse

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Sorry. I'm a Balance Grandmaster. Been through the whole game. This is how it goes.

First round you get two power pips. Cast Feint. Two rounds later you throw a 6 pip Judgment. This equals 1300 points. Dead mob. There is no easier way. For Bosses you wait a few extra rounds.

Surrender the fantasy of the usefulness of Hydra and Spectral Blast. They are a waste of time, pips, and strategy. Only against Balance monsters and Bosses are they even remotely useful.


Explorer
Feb 11, 2009
86
I'm living a fantasy because I have figured out how to use my cards? Wow. Every hit you make doesnt have to be thousands of points of damage by the way.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
I'm living a fantasy because I have figured out how to use my cards? Wow. Every hit you make doesnt have to be thousands of points of damage by the way.

That comment wasn't necessarily directed at you, but at everyone trying to defend the usefulness of Hydra and Spectral Blast. But hey, if the shoe fits....

I realize every hit doesn't have to be thousands of points of damage, but why delay the inevitable? Every hit CAN be thousands of points of damage and it CAN be achieved quicker and simpler than using a convoluted Elemental Strategy with TripBlades/Traps, Hydras, and Spectral Blasts.


Survivor
Mar 28, 2009
36
SyphaN wrote:
I'll tell you what school is unbalanced is the ICE wizard
Forget trying to Solo with this school actualy it is the weakest school,
IMO. Health HA! you die so fast asp. in Krok, I'm going to buy my points back and try another school cause this one blows.

lol are you crazy? i started an ice wizard and i have been able to solo all of krokotopia so far. i just started the tomb of storms and this has been easy too. just sit back and work on your schools pros.

1