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Limit pet cast chance by level?

AuthorMessage
Historian
May 15, 2009
673
Aaron SpellThief on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
The problem of pet heals at low levels is that the heals heal a much larger percentage of health for low levels than high levels. Instead of reducing cast rate, why not just make pet heals into percentages of health rather than just one value all of the time? Since every player would have the same percentage, it would be fair. There could be maximum and minimum power of heals, in order to prevent max level ices from getting a ton of health back from each heal, or a low level storm from getting almost none. Even if the maximum and minimums were 300 and 500, it might make it fairer.
this seems more like a well thought out idea then simply killing any chances for the may casts at lower levels. However I would hope that it's simply for PvP only. Honestly the PvE community has suffered enough nerfs to their gear, spells, and pets because of the incessant complaining from the PvP community

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
PvP King on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Like I said before, this has nothing to do with me lacking strategy, spells, gear, pets, or anything, this is simply something that can never be countered at levels 1-21. I don't need lessons telling me to improve or to adjust my spells or anything like that because I'm probably already one of the tops anyway, but if there's something that can't be countered in a certain level, it shouldn't exist.
that is just selfish beyond words.
As Dr. Von very eloquently stated, you have the resources to counter it, but you choose not to use them. Instead you choose to complain on the forums hoping for a nerf that would make many more people unhappy.

if you are as good as you say you are, then you should have no problem dealing with situations like this. If you aren't exhausting every available strategy to counter pet heals, then you aren't doing your job correctly and therefore have no right to whine for a nerf that would do more harm than good.

I don't need lessons telling me to improve or to adjust my spells or anything like that because I'm probably already one of the tops anyway

No offense, but that is the worst attitude to take towards people trying to help you.
"oh I don't think you are as god as me, so I am just going to ignore any advice you give because it couldn't possibly work."

that is basically what you're telling me and everyone else. If you can't look past your own pride to take the advice of others, then you'll always be doomed to fail

Explorer
Nov 21, 2013
78
PvP King on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Like I said before, this has nothing to do with me lacking strategy, spells, gear, pets, or anything, this is simply something that can never be countered at levels 1-21. I don't need lessons telling me to improve or to adjust my spells or anything like that because I'm probably already one of the tops anyway, but if there's something that can't be countered in a certain level, it shouldn't exist.
It can be countered by many spells.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4120
Aaron SpellThief on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
The problem of pet heals at low levels is that the heals heal a much larger percentage of health for low levels than high levels. Instead of reducing cast rate, why not just make pet heals into percentages of health rather than just one value all of the time? Since every player would have the same percentage, it would be fair. There could be maximum and minimum power of heals, in order to prevent max level ices from getting a ton of health back from each heal, or a low level storm from getting almost none. Even if the maximum and minimums were 300 and 500, it might make it fairer.
By that logic then higher level attacks should only do percentage damage vs lower levels because their attacks do so much more damage in ratio to health.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Dr Von on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
"Is it my fault that PvP is unfair?"

of course not. but, if you are unwilling to use the resources available to you, that's one hundred percent your fault. while pvp is broken in many ways, pet heals are not one of them.

i also have multiple high-level wizards, and that's reflected in my little pyromancer's setup; my advantage in any battle i fight is my experience at the upper levels, because i know what's available to me and how to use it most effectively, as well as how to counter those annoying things that happen.

if you truly do have multiple high-level wizard, then you should be aware of this and know how to react to the situation accordingly.

-von
exalted
Yeah, I stack up Infections (on my Ice and Life I stack up Entangles), but that's just about it. It's still not stopping a talent like Healing Current from healing 700, and it's not fair. I can counter it, I don't need tips on how, but it's seriously unfair.

Survivor
Jun 29, 2009
32
Here's an even better idea:

Limit pet heals to sprite.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Samuel Wolfe on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
that is just selfish beyond words.
As Dr. Von very eloquently stated, you have the resources to counter it, but you choose not to use them. Instead you choose to complain on the forums hoping for a nerf that would make many more people unhappy.

if you are as good as you say you are, then you should have no problem dealing with situations like this. If you aren't exhausting every available strategy to counter pet heals, then you aren't doing your job correctly and therefore have no right to whine for a nerf that would do more harm than good.

I don't need lessons telling me to improve or to adjust my spells or anything like that because I'm probably already one of the tops anyway

No offense, but that is the worst attitude to take towards people trying to help you.
"oh I don't think you are as god as me, so I am just going to ignore any advice you give because it couldn't possibly work."

that is basically what you're telling me and everyone else. If you can't look past your own pride to take the advice of others, then you'll always be doomed to fail
I already use my resources, and I'm not resorting to a Life Mastery amulet at level 5. I use the Nightshade's Choker for extra Weaknesses, and that's final. I'm not using a Life Mastery amulet to use Entangle on a level 5, because that's a waste. I do have Infection, but having 3 doesn't solve the world's problems for pet heals. The opponent already has 4 heals (or more) in their deck plus a pet healing, how am I supposed to catch up to that with only 16 cards and the opponent having 2500 health? I've tried lots of strategies, using a Rain Beetle, a Ghost Hound for another Infection, a couple different pets for Doom and Gloom while having some in my sideboard, but my opponent can change it or if they get a damage spike I can't change it myself, and I lose space for attacks. So if there's any other "solution" to it, why isn't anybody announcing what it is?

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
Noohb on Jun 8, 2014 wrote:
Here's an even better idea:

Limit pet heals to sprite.
Really?

Here is an even better idea -- leave the pet heals alone and get on with your lives!

The pets are just fine as they are, they are totally fair, everyone has the same opportunity to develop pets that are helpful to them in the game.

If you choose not to use that ability, that is your choice -- but don't expect everyone else in the game to give up what they have worked for just because you don't want to bother working for it or dealing with it in the arena. The fact that you don't want to make that effort does not give you the right to penalize those of us who have chosen to put the work and investment into developing helpful pets.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
Aaron SpellThief on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
"while pvp is broken in many ways, pet heals are not one of them." While you may consider this to be the case, pretty much everyone I know thinks the opposite. I personally do not consider it fair, no matter how much a person worked for it, for a pet to heal the player that obviously should have lost to an amount of health where they are able to win. Without sheer luck, that player would not have won. Situations like this, whether pet heals, criticals, or just none of the cards that I need showing up when I discard most of my deck, have made Wizard101 a lot less strategy based and a lot more luck based.
No. It is not "sheer luck," it is effort and investment in something that is known to be a helpful part of equipping your character for both PVP and PVE.

Strategy is not just in the spells you choose to cast, but in the entire effort you put into developing your wizard to be a strong player in the game. A very important part of that development is taking the time to raise helpful pets. A good player takes the time to make that investment, and for PVP also thinks about how to deal with others who have made that investment.

Luck is a part of this game -- and the element of unpredictability actually adds to the fun of the game. Actually, that element of unpredictability is a vital part of game design for this and many other games. So good strategy incorporates elements that improve your luck.

Stop trying to limit PVP to the way that makes it easiest for you to win according to the way you imagine it should be. Look at the reality of what it is -- and that includes pets -- and learn how to deal with that.

I guess we must run in different crowds -- Pretty much everyone I know thinks the same way as Von said. Pet heals are not one of the ways PVP is broken.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 8, 2014 wrote:
No. It is not "sheer luck," it is effort and investment in something that is known to be a helpful part of equipping your character for both PVP and PVE.

Strategy is not just in the spells you choose to cast, but in the entire effort you put into developing your wizard to be a strong player in the game. A very important part of that development is taking the time to raise helpful pets. A good player takes the time to make that investment, and for PVP also thinks about how to deal with others who have made that investment.

Luck is a part of this game -- and the element of unpredictability actually adds to the fun of the game. Actually, that element of unpredictability is a vital part of game design for this and many other games. So good strategy incorporates elements that improve your luck.

Stop trying to limit PVP to the way that makes it easiest for you to win according to the way you imagine it should be. Look at the reality of what it is -- and that includes pets -- and learn how to deal with that.

I guess we must run in different crowds -- Pretty much everyone I know thinks the same way as Von said. Pet heals are not one of the ways PVP is broken.
No, the effort you put into training a pet has nothing to do with giving you skill. I could work a billion times harder than my opponent did for a healing pet but his pet still might cast more. That's obviously luck.

"A good player takes the time to make that investment, and for PVP also thinks about how to deal with others who have made that investment." No, me and Aaron have payed the same amount of time, effort and money as any other person who has gotten a healing talent on their pet. On my main pet, I don't even have may cast heals, but you're telling me I didn't pay enough. Okay, try doing lots of PvP tournaments until you get 6000 tickets from a Flamenco Tocador pet (most get the pet from hatching, however I didn't), do multiple pet hatches to get the pet to finally have 10% Spell-Proof, Spell-Defying, Balance-Dealer, Balance-Sniper and Pierce Train, while having to constantly farm Mirror Lake and grow Couch Potatoes and Evil Magma Peas (having to purchase the areas and seeds with crowns sometimes), farming for gold to buy gardening spells, farming again to buy the Red Barn Farm, then spending months on training to get that "perfect pet" I said. Most people don't even have a 10% Spell-Proof or a school specific stats pet. They get universal stats and the 9% Spell-Proof because it's easier. I've probably worked harder than most people who have a heal spamming pet, and you're telling me that I have to spend time and money in this game to get a good pet.

With that, I've had to farm Hades for my gear (hat, robe and Amulet of Divine Influence), I've had to save 5000 arena tickets for the Duelist's Daredevil Ring, I've had to buy back my training points a few times to finally get the right spells, I've had to farm Loremaster for the spells I needed, I've had to farm Morganthe for my athame, I've had to do ranked PvP matches to get Warlord and buy the Staff of Flashing Blades, and then there's no counter to some pet heals like Healing Current. So what you're telling me, is that I should buy back my training points, buy a Life Mastery amulet, train Entangle, while MC Healing Current still gets past me, lose my stats, and then train a pet all over again to get a healing talent, or I don't invest in the game.

"Luck is a part of this game" No, luck isn't a "part" of the game, it's the whole mechanics of the game now. Every turn I'm relying on getting: A power pip, the right card, my spell working, my spells hitting criticals, blocking criticals my opponent's pet not healing, etc. There's no "skill" in this game anymore for most people, they just rely on the mechanics of the game to do everything for them. That's not how PvE should be like, and especially not PvP.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 8, 2014 wrote:
No. It is not "sheer luck," it is effort and investment in something that is known to be a helpful part of equipping your character for both PVP and PVE.

Strategy is not just in the spells you choose to cast, but in the entire effort you put into developing your wizard to be a strong player in the game. A very important part of that development is taking the time to raise helpful pets. A good player takes the time to make that investment, and for PVP also thinks about how to deal with others who have made that investment.

Luck is a part of this game -- and the element of unpredictability actually adds to the fun of the game. Actually, that element of unpredictability is a vital part of game design for this and many other games. So good strategy incorporates elements that improve your luck.

Stop trying to limit PVP to the way that makes it easiest for you to win according to the way you imagine it should be. Look at the reality of what it is -- and that includes pets -- and learn how to deal with that.

I guess we must run in different crowds -- Pretty much everyone I know thinks the same way as Von said. Pet heals are not one of the ways PVP is broken.
Actually, pet heals are entirely luck. Some pets heal every round ind some matches, while others don't. Sure, it takes effort and investment to get these pets, but with pet heals, it all comes down to sheer luck. Sure, luck is a part of the game, and should be-but in most aspects of the game where luck is involved, there is some way to help chance the probability that luck. For instance, in the cards you draw, it is possible to discard and have a much better chance of getting the cards you want. With power pips, you can get rid of normal pips or get better pip chance. With critical block, you can put up conviction or get higher block. With pets, however, there is no good way to counter them except for doom and gloom, which can easily be removed and can easily cost you the match if used at the wrong time. Also, pet heals are free. If I have to spend pips to get healed and my opponent doesn't AND gets to cast another spell the turn they heal, is that really fair? You have your opinion, I have mine. I believe that PvP was better before fairy and healing current-I don't know about pet heals in general, as I was not PvP'ing at that time.

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
PvP King on Jun 8, 2014 wrote:
I already use my resources, and I'm not resorting to a Life Mastery amulet at level 5. I use the Nightshade's Choker for extra Weaknesses, and that's final. I'm not using a Life Mastery amulet to use Entangle on a level 5, because that's a waste. I do have Infection, but having 3 doesn't solve the world's problems for pet heals. The opponent already has 4 heals (or more) in their deck plus a pet healing, how am I supposed to catch up to that with only 16 cards and the opponent having 2500 health? I've tried lots of strategies, using a Rain Beetle, a Ghost Hound for another Infection, a couple different pets for Doom and Gloom while having some in my sideboard, but my opponent can change it or if they get a damage spike I can't change it myself, and I lose space for attacks. So if there's any other "solution" to it, why isn't anybody announcing what it is?
well it's your choice to limit yourself. How is it you seem to be the only one that seems to be having trouble? You would think if this were such a problem, there would be many more players voicing their concenrs, but guess what?... They Don't.

mainly because it's not.

I am sorry that you are having some bad luck with pet heals, but maybe, instead of complaining here ont he forum you could go hatch an ideal pet for you complete with heals and whatever else you want. fight fire with fire as they say, plus if these pets really heal as much as you say, then it'd be topping your life every other turn, making it nearly impossible for them to really put you down.

now instead of just packing deck and pet infections, why not put in treasure cards too? and don't just put one and your done. stack them up so he can't keep using it.

ALSO I have heard about and occasionally seen a infection spell that applies 3 at once for like 1-2 pips. that seems like a much more efficient card to me.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2931
Aaron SpellThief on Jun 9, 2014 wrote:
Actually, pet heals are entirely luck. Some pets heal every round ind some matches, while others don't. Sure, it takes effort and investment to get these pets, but with pet heals, it all comes down to sheer luck. Sure, luck is a part of the game, and should be-but in most aspects of the game where luck is involved, there is some way to help chance the probability that luck. For instance, in the cards you draw, it is possible to discard and have a much better chance of getting the cards you want. With power pips, you can get rid of normal pips or get better pip chance. With critical block, you can put up conviction or get higher block. With pets, however, there is no good way to counter them except for doom and gloom, which can easily be removed and can easily cost you the match if used at the wrong time. Also, pet heals are free. If I have to spend pips to get healed and my opponent doesn't AND gets to cast another spell the turn they heal, is that really fair? You have your opinion, I have mine. I believe that PvP was better before fairy and healing current-I don't know about pet heals in general, as I was not PvP'ing at that time.
yes, part of it is luck-based. but so is the rest of pvp, and the game.

for example: critical/block ratings, who goes first (in pvp); drop distribution (in pve); what spells come up in your hand at a given time... the list goes on.

i have had many matches in which my opponent's pet spammed heals but mine did not. and i have still won those matches, because i was prepared and able to counter. i don't attack until i'm 150% certain that my opponent will be good and dead, which is 150% effective in countering pet heals.

-von

Survivor
Apr 23, 2012
14
This will just encourage and improve puppeting. Bad idea.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 9, 2014 wrote:
No, the effort you put into training a pet has nothing to do with giving you skill. I could work a billion times harder than my opponent did for a healing pet but his pet still might cast more. That's obviously luck.

"A good player takes the time to make that investment, and for PVP also thinks about how to deal with others who have made that investment." No, me and Aaron have payed the same amount of time, effort and money as any other person who has gotten a healing talent on their pet. On my main pet, I don't even have may cast heals, but you're telling me I didn't pay enough. Okay, try doing lots of PvP tournaments until you get 6000 tickets from a Flamenco Tocador pet (most get the pet from hatching, however I didn't), do multiple pet hatches to get the pet to finally have 10% Spell-Proof, Spell-Defying, Balance-Dealer, Balance-Sniper and Pierce Train, while having to constantly farm Mirror Lake and grow Couch Potatoes and Evil Magma Peas (having to purchase the areas and seeds with crowns sometimes), farming for gold to buy gardening spells, farming again to buy the Red Barn Farm, then spending months on training to get that "perfect pet" I said. Most people don't even have a 10% Spell-Proof or a school specific stats pet. They get universal stats and the 9% Spell-Proof because it's easier. I've probably worked harder than most people who have a heal spamming pet, and you're telling me that I have to spend time and money in this game to get a good pet.

With that, I've had to farm Hades for my gear (hat, robe and Amulet of Divine Influence), I've had to save 5000 arena tickets for the Duelist's Daredevil Ring, I've had to buy back my training points a few times to finally get the right spells, I've had to farm Loremaster for the spells I needed, I've had to farm Morganthe for my athame, I've had to do ranked PvP matches to get Warlord and buy the Staff of Flashing Blades, and then there's no counter to some pet heals like Healing Current. So what you're telling me, is that I should buy back my training points, buy a Life Mastery amulet, train Entangle, while MC Healing Current still gets past me, lose my stats, and then train a pet all over again to get a healing talent, or I don't invest in the game.

"Luck is a part of this game" No, luck isn't a "part" of the game, it's the whole mechanics of the game now. Every turn I'm relying on getting: A power pip, the right card, my spell working, my spells hitting criticals, blocking criticals my opponent's pet not healing, etc. There's no "skill" in this game anymore for most people, they just rely on the mechanics of the game to do everything for them. That's not how PvE should be like, and especially not PvP.
"No, luck isn't a "part" of the game, it's the whole mechanics of the game now."

Really, overstating the case does not help either. Luck is a part of the game, and you know that full well. You overstate the impact of the pet may casts quite a bit. If you are so talented in PVP, you know full well that the effort you have put into getting gear and pets that fit your style of play have helped shift the odds in your favor. In fact, you have just listed the entire course of effort you have put into it. That describes Your approach.

Others have included healing pets as part of their approach. The fact that their approach limits your approach, does not mean that your approach is any more valid than theirs -- it just means that their way of going about winning is a challenge for you. Pet heals shift the odds in favor of people who have taken time to go that route. It is not an infallible route -- but obviously yours is not an infallible route either. The fact that neither route is infallible, and neither route eliminates the elements of chance, is in part what makes the game interesting. It is not about achieving total control. It is about learning how to work with the odds in such a way that it keeps fun. If you choose to do that without healing pets, that is your choice. But the rest of us don't necessarily want to do what you do. That is our choice.

This game is neither pure luck, nor pure strategy; it is a mix of both -- and that mix is part of what makes this game work so well. It also means that no one will have an infallible strategy -- and that also is a big factor in keeping the game fun.

If you want pure strategy, play chess. If you want infallible predictability, play something like tic tac toe. But if you want to play this game, then accept that others play differently than you do, and that the variety and the chance are actually elements that add to, not detract from, the game.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
Dr Von on Jun 10, 2014 wrote:
yes, part of it is luck-based. but so is the rest of pvp, and the game.

for example: critical/block ratings, who goes first (in pvp); drop distribution (in pve); what spells come up in your hand at a given time... the list goes on.

i have had many matches in which my opponent's pet spammed heals but mine did not. and i have still won those matches, because i was prepared and able to counter. i don't attack until i'm 150% certain that my opponent will be good and dead, which is 150% effective in countering pet heals.

-von
With pet heals, all of it is luck-based. With critical and block, drop distribution, cards in your hand, power pips, and other such luck-based events, there is a way to change the likelihood of these events. With critical and block, if you want to block more, raise your block. If you want to critical more, raise your critical. With drop distribution, if you want an item, farm more, increasing the probability that you will get that item. With cards in your hand, you can discard in order to have a better chance of getting the cards you want. With power pips, you can raise your power pip chance or use power play. The turn system is also completely random, which is why there have been so many complaints about it. Pet heals and the turn system are some of the few things that are impossible to control and, with the turn system, the first turn gets a huge advantage, and with pets, there are no good counters. Therefore, both are unfair. Sure, you can win with either. You can wait until you're "150% certain that [your] opponent will be good and dead." However, in some matches, this simply will not happen no matter what you do, as with luck, no matter what you do, it is sometimes impossible to win because you are second or your opponent's pet spams heals. In my opinion, that is overpowered.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 10, 2014 wrote:
"No, luck isn't a "part" of the game, it's the whole mechanics of the game now."

Really, overstating the case does not help either. Luck is a part of the game, and you know that full well. You overstate the impact of the pet may casts quite a bit. If you are so talented in PVP, you know full well that the effort you have put into getting gear and pets that fit your style of play have helped shift the odds in your favor. In fact, you have just listed the entire course of effort you have put into it. That describes Your approach.

Others have included healing pets as part of their approach. The fact that their approach limits your approach, does not mean that your approach is any more valid than theirs -- it just means that their way of going about winning is a challenge for you. Pet heals shift the odds in favor of people who have taken time to go that route. It is not an infallible route -- but obviously yours is not an infallible route either. The fact that neither route is infallible, and neither route eliminates the elements of chance, is in part what makes the game interesting. It is not about achieving total control. It is about learning how to work with the odds in such a way that it keeps fun. If you choose to do that without healing pets, that is your choice. But the rest of us don't necessarily want to do what you do. That is our choice.

This game is neither pure luck, nor pure strategy; it is a mix of both -- and that mix is part of what makes this game work so well. It also means that no one will have an infallible strategy -- and that also is a big factor in keeping the game fun.

If you want pure strategy, play chess. If you want infallible predictability, play something like tic tac toe. But if you want to play this game, then accept that others play differently than you do, and that the variety and the chance are actually elements that add to, not detract from, the game.
No, once again, luck is the whole game. With pet heals, card drawing, boss drops, hoard packs, minions casting the right spell, getting power pips, spells not fizzling, critical, blocking, that's all due to luck. But you can still cope with those and use your own spells or gear to counter them, but pet heals aren't controllable in the slightest way. To me, pet heals are like gaining a turn. If you're second, you're already a turn behind and if your opponent's pet heals you're multiple turns behind. Is that due to skill or luck?

No, pet heals are far more overpowered than stats. You control your own stats, while the opponent has no control over their pet healing them. I'm fine with the pet healing once or twice (as long as it's not that 1000 Healing Current), but more than that is just absurd. If a pet spam heals, you can't take the opponent out. They gain a turn, don't need to worry about healing in their next turn, don't need to worry about shielding in their next turn, and they can go straight for the attack. Still think it's fair? And no, the game is about control. I've never seen or played a game where you can't control your character. In PvP with pets nowadays, all you're doing is clicking on a spell and hoping that your opponent's pet doesn't heal and that you critical block their attack, you're watching, that's not what a game is. In a video game, you take action and control the antagonist in the storyline, however with pet heals you don't.

Pure luck beats pure strategy any day. You could be the most skilled player in the game and if you face somebody who has a pet spamming heals on him/her, the skilled player can't do anything about it.

The chance of elements don't add to the game, they ruin the whole fun of it. What's the point of being the most strategic player if a computer animated pet can defeat you? It's no fun, it's just watching your opponent get healed.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
No, once again, luck is the whole game. With pet heals, card drawing, boss drops, hoard packs, minions casting the right spell, getting power pips, spells not fizzling, critical, blocking, that's all due to luck. But you can still cope with those and use your own spells or gear to counter them, but pet heals aren't controllable in the slightest way. To me, pet heals are like gaining a turn. If you're second, you're already a turn behind and if your opponent's pet heals you're multiple turns behind. Is that due to skill or luck?

No, pet heals are far more overpowered than stats. You control your own stats, while the opponent has no control over their pet healing them. I'm fine with the pet healing once or twice (as long as it's not that 1000 Healing Current), but more than that is just absurd. If a pet spam heals, you can't take the opponent out. They gain a turn, don't need to worry about healing in their next turn, don't need to worry about shielding in their next turn, and they can go straight for the attack. Still think it's fair? And no, the game is about control. I've never seen or played a game where you can't control your character. In PvP with pets nowadays, all you're doing is clicking on a spell and hoping that your opponent's pet doesn't heal and that you critical block their attack, you're watching, that's not what a game is. In a video game, you take action and control the antagonist in the storyline, however with pet heals you don't.

Pure luck beats pure strategy any day. You could be the most skilled player in the game and if you face somebody who has a pet spamming heals on him/her, the skilled player can't do anything about it.

The chance of elements don't add to the game, they ruin the whole fun of it. What's the point of being the most strategic player if a computer animated pet can defeat you? It's no fun, it's just watching your opponent get healed.
If your theory were true, then none of your strategy would have helped you at all either in PVP or in PVE. The game would be pure chaos, and no one would play it. This is pure nonsense you are spouting.

Pure luck does not beat pure strategy any day. Take a class in probability and its use in science if you don't understand that point. Moreover, what we have is not one versus the other; we have a combination of the two, both luck and strategy, which is actually much like reality. As with good science in reality, learn how to use probabilities to your advantage.

I lost in the arena very predictably when I first started playing, because I did not understand the strategy of PVP -- I was used to the strategy of PVE. The player I used in that first PVP effort had a good healing pet. That made no difference, because my strategy was not good for PVP. It took me time to learn. There is not a single warlord, nor a single successful player anywhere in the game, who has not developed a strategy that works for them.

One helpful strategy is to get good healing pets. It is not infallible. The warlord that I have currently does not use the healing pets, as he is death and his heals come in another way. I have beaten many players with all kinds of healing pets. I have also lost to many -- but the pet heals were only one small component of the overall strategy of those opponents win or lose. Pip management, knowledge of what spells can do against what kinds of defenses, knowing how to deal with shields -- these things are much more important.

The chance elements do add a lot of fun to the game -- they keep it from mind-numbing predictability. There is nothing over-powered about them. But they can be good reminders to stay just a tad humble, as neither here nor anywhere are we ever completely in control -- no matter how much we might wish it were otherwise!

Squire
Sep 07, 2011
598
You have the same chance to get a healing pet that any other player has. In a given fight, your pet has the same chance to heal as any other pet with the same talent. That could not be more fair. There is no reason to change anything.

Luck plays a part in most aspects of the game. How you handle those variables determines your success rate.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 11, 2014 wrote:
If your theory were true, then none of your strategy would have helped you at all either in PVP or in PVE. The game would be pure chaos, and no one would play it. This is pure nonsense you are spouting.

Pure luck does not beat pure strategy any day. Take a class in probability and its use in science if you don't understand that point. Moreover, what we have is not one versus the other; we have a combination of the two, both luck and strategy, which is actually much like reality. As with good science in reality, learn how to use probabilities to your advantage.

I lost in the arena very predictably when I first started playing, because I did not understand the strategy of PVP -- I was used to the strategy of PVE. The player I used in that first PVP effort had a good healing pet. That made no difference, because my strategy was not good for PVP. It took me time to learn. There is not a single warlord, nor a single successful player anywhere in the game, who has not developed a strategy that works for them.

One helpful strategy is to get good healing pets. It is not infallible. The warlord that I have currently does not use the healing pets, as he is death and his heals come in another way. I have beaten many players with all kinds of healing pets. I have also lost to many -- but the pet heals were only one small component of the overall strategy of those opponents win or lose. Pip management, knowledge of what spells can do against what kinds of defenses, knowing how to deal with shields -- these things are much more important.

The chance elements do add a lot of fun to the game -- they keep it from mind-numbing predictability. There is nothing over-powered about them. But they can be good reminders to stay just a tad humble, as neither here nor anywhere are we ever completely in control -- no matter how much we might wish it were otherwise!
If you're accepting that your opponent's pet can heal to save his/her life in a PvP match and you're not wanting to gain control, what's the point of the match then? If one person is trying to take control of the match casting one spell per turn while the other opponent is trying to take control of the match while casting 1 to let's say 4 spells per turn, what strategy is that? I can't be fighting an opponent who has to worry about nothing but absolutely attacking because his pet is backing him up fully. The only way I would win in that type of match, is if I was first and started crowning my opponent with dispels. From second, if your opponent's pet decides to go all heal-happy and your opponent only has to focus on dealing with your health, your chances of winning are extremely low. To me, critical and pets casting is like casting 2 or more spells in one turn. Sure, you could argue that you do the same with minions, but 1) Minions cost pips and 2) Minions can be taken out. Lifebane used to be a possible solution to pets spamming heals because it dispelled the next heal from your opponent, but that spell is now retired and therefore there's nothing that stops a pet anymore.

In my matches, I take out the luck factors of my strategy. I have 103% power pip chance meaning no white pips, I have 23% Balance accuracy meaning no fizzles, and I use conviction with an already high amount of block rating. That is how you know you can win without luck. However, pet heals are still a huge luck factor in the game and no stat or spell can stop it from happening, which is why I strongly believe that pets should never be "heal-happy" in a PvP match, but just be there to heal once in a while, like how they were before all these insane healing talents came out like Fairy Friend and Energizing Battery.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
Gemma Luna on Jun 12, 2014 wrote:
You have the same chance to get a healing pet that any other player has. In a given fight, your pet has the same chance to heal as any other pet with the same talent. That could not be more fair. There is no reason to change anything.

Luck plays a part in most aspects of the game. How you handle those variables determines your success rate.
No, I'm not just going to get a bunch of healing talents and rely on luck to win me everything. Read this page here: https://www.wizard101.com/pvp/guide

Similar to dueling, Player vs Player dueling is a much more in depth method of matching your skills against other players."

Right now, I don't see this "matching of skill" against another player. On this page, https://www.wizard101.com/w101playersguide/pvp-help it says, "Player vs Player (or PvP) is a combat feature where players compete against each other instead of against creatures." Now, when I expect to go into a PvP match, I expect to face my opponent, not his pet. Even KingsIsle said it, PvP is a combat feature where you compete against other players instead of fighting a creature, however, a pet, technically, is a "creature". It's computer animated like a mob, can cast its own spells like a mob (all because of may casts), but has no way of stopping the pet from doing what it's doing.

To me, PvP in many matches is "Player vs Player and Pet" (PvPP) because of may cast talents casting so much. If your opponent has low health, they're going to try and heal. Once they shake off the dispel you put off them, the pet heals them for them. This is not Player vs Player, this is simply relying on game mechanics to do everything for you.

I'm probably not the best in the game, possibly not even close, but I do know enough to counter pet heals and be able to counter them, but I am a very experienced duelist. I'm saying this right now: If you're either inexperienced or experienced and dueling an opponent who has a pet with may casts, your chances of winning are very slim. They don't need to worry about their own health if they have 3+ healing talents, all they have to do is worry about taking you down, meaning you have to be defending while doing massive amounts of unrepairable damage at the same time, which from second, is near to impossible.

Pet heals are overpowered as of today, and I'm not going to get into the use of those talents, I want a PvP match to be a PvP match, not a player pet+player match. Plus, if I did get healing talents on my pet, my opponent's pet still might spam while mine decides to sleep. This again, is not fair.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 13, 2014 wrote:
If you're accepting that your opponent's pet can heal to save his/her life in a PvP match and you're not wanting to gain control, what's the point of the match then? If one person is trying to take control of the match casting one spell per turn while the other opponent is trying to take control of the match while casting 1 to let's say 4 spells per turn, what strategy is that? I can't be fighting an opponent who has to worry about nothing but absolutely attacking because his pet is backing him up fully. The only way I would win in that type of match, is if I was first and started crowning my opponent with dispels. From second, if your opponent's pet decides to go all heal-happy and your opponent only has to focus on dealing with your health, your chances of winning are extremely low. To me, critical and pets casting is like casting 2 or more spells in one turn. Sure, you could argue that you do the same with minions, but 1) Minions cost pips and 2) Minions can be taken out. Lifebane used to be a possible solution to pets spamming heals because it dispelled the next heal from your opponent, but that spell is now retired and therefore there's nothing that stops a pet anymore.

In my matches, I take out the luck factors of my strategy. I have 103% power pip chance meaning no white pips, I have 23% Balance accuracy meaning no fizzles, and I use conviction with an already high amount of block rating. That is how you know you can win without luck. However, pet heals are still a huge luck factor in the game and no stat or spell can stop it from happening, which is why I strongly believe that pets should never be "heal-happy" in a PvP match, but just be there to heal once in a while, like how they were before all these insane healing talents came out like Fairy Friend and Energizing Battery.
So, first of all this post has almost nothing to do with what you quoted.

Secondly, you are again overstating the case. Nobody said anything about not wanting to "gain control," or that matches were pointless.

What I am saying is that total control, total predictability, is boring -- again I offer the example of tic-tac-toe.

That we don't have total control in this game or in life does not mean we are not trying to shift the odds in our favor, and thereby gain some control so we can maneuver a match to a win. How you shift those odds is your personal overall strategy of equipment, pets, spells, TC, etc. You choose to "take the luck factors out" of your strategy -- that is one possible choice. It also means that, for you, dealing with "the luck factors" is a real source of confusion and difficulty.

The element of unpredictability is what gives the match the feeling of challenge and the elation of winning -- by successfully navigating something in which you do not always know what the outcome will be. When you eliminate too many of the unpredictable elements, you eliminate the thrill of the unexpected, the thrill of the challenge.

Think about this really: if you know the outcome of a match before it starts, that is what makes the match pointless. On the other hand, if you are unsure of the outcome, then that uncertainty is what makes the game fun as a game. In this game, uncertainty and luck are built into the game as essential components that generate excitement.

I know going into a PVP match, that I am going into a challenge that I may win and may lose. When I play PVP, I enjoy that challenge. I don't get mad at the other player for having a better game (or better luck) than me when I lose, and I don't get arrogant or smug when I win.

The healing pets are only one component of that overall challenge. I have beaten players with them, and also lost. Either way, I have had fun. It is a game after all. Only a game. The point of a game is not just to win; it is to have fun.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1559
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 13, 2014 wrote:
So, first of all this post has almost nothing to do with what you quoted.

Secondly, you are again overstating the case. Nobody said anything about not wanting to "gain control," or that matches were pointless.

What I am saying is that total control, total predictability, is boring -- again I offer the example of tic-tac-toe.

That we don't have total control in this game or in life does not mean we are not trying to shift the odds in our favor, and thereby gain some control so we can maneuver a match to a win. How you shift those odds is your personal overall strategy of equipment, pets, spells, TC, etc. You choose to "take the luck factors out" of your strategy -- that is one possible choice. It also means that, for you, dealing with "the luck factors" is a real source of confusion and difficulty.

The element of unpredictability is what gives the match the feeling of challenge and the elation of winning -- by successfully navigating something in which you do not always know what the outcome will be. When you eliminate too many of the unpredictable elements, you eliminate the thrill of the unexpected, the thrill of the challenge.

Think about this really: if you know the outcome of a match before it starts, that is what makes the match pointless. On the other hand, if you are unsure of the outcome, then that uncertainty is what makes the game fun as a game. In this game, uncertainty and luck are built into the game as essential components that generate excitement.

I know going into a PVP match, that I am going into a challenge that I may win and may lose. When I play PVP, I enjoy that challenge. I don't get mad at the other player for having a better game (or better luck) than me when I lose, and I don't get arrogant or smug when I win.

The healing pets are only one component of that overall challenge. I have beaten players with them, and also lost. Either way, I have had fun. It is a game after all. Only a game. The point of a game is not just to win; it is to have fun.
What does tic tac toe have to do with Wizard101? In that game, you can counter your opponent's moves. If you're second, you keep countering your opponent until you have a window of opportunity. This is how Wizard101 should be like, and it's much like how many games and sports are. In a soccer game, if you're losing 5-1 and have 5 minutes left in the game (in Wizard101 that's when your health is low and you have no way of countering back because you got overpowered by the other wizard), you don't just say "Hey, let's stop the game and have a shootout" (in Wizard101, that would be a pet healing multiple times and saving the wizard's life), giving the losing team a major opportunity to win. If you get overpowered by your opponent, face it, you lost, a pet heal shouldn't spam you back to full health and make you win.

Yes, the point of the game is to have fun, but I can't have fun if everything I use will be countered by a pet heal. Try playing a soccer game where all your goals don't count, see how fun that is. If you used your time and effort to take down your opponent's health, your opponent should be the only one being able to recover it fully, not the pet.

Explorer
Nov 21, 2013
78
FinnAgainWindrider on Jun 13, 2014 wrote:
So, first of all this post has almost nothing to do with what you quoted.

Secondly, you are again overstating the case. Nobody said anything about not wanting to "gain control," or that matches were pointless.

What I am saying is that total control, total predictability, is boring -- again I offer the example of tic-tac-toe.

That we don't have total control in this game or in life does not mean we are not trying to shift the odds in our favor, and thereby gain some control so we can maneuver a match to a win. How you shift those odds is your personal overall strategy of equipment, pets, spells, TC, etc. You choose to "take the luck factors out" of your strategy -- that is one possible choice. It also means that, for you, dealing with "the luck factors" is a real source of confusion and difficulty.

The element of unpredictability is what gives the match the feeling of challenge and the elation of winning -- by successfully navigating something in which you do not always know what the outcome will be. When you eliminate too many of the unpredictable elements, you eliminate the thrill of the unexpected, the thrill of the challenge.

Think about this really: if you know the outcome of a match before it starts, that is what makes the match pointless. On the other hand, if you are unsure of the outcome, then that uncertainty is what makes the game fun as a game. In this game, uncertainty and luck are built into the game as essential components that generate excitement.

I know going into a PVP match, that I am going into a challenge that I may win and may lose. When I play PVP, I enjoy that challenge. I don't get mad at the other player for having a better game (or better luck) than me when I lose, and I don't get arrogant or smug when I win.

The healing pets are only one component of that overall challenge. I have beaten players with them, and also lost. Either way, I have had fun. It is a game after all. Only a game. The point of a game is not just to win; it is to have fun.
Quoted for truth. Well said, Finn.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
PvP King on Jun 14, 2014 wrote:
What does tic tac toe have to do with Wizard101? In that game, you can counter your opponent's moves. If you're second, you keep countering your opponent until you have a window of opportunity. This is how Wizard101 should be like, and it's much like how many games and sports are. In a soccer game, if you're losing 5-1 and have 5 minutes left in the game (in Wizard101 that's when your health is low and you have no way of countering back because you got overpowered by the other wizard), you don't just say "Hey, let's stop the game and have a shootout" (in Wizard101, that would be a pet healing multiple times and saving the wizard's life), giving the losing team a major opportunity to win. If you get overpowered by your opponent, face it, you lost, a pet heal shouldn't spam you back to full health and make you win.

Yes, the point of the game is to have fun, but I can't have fun if everything I use will be countered by a pet heal. Try playing a soccer game where all your goals don't count, see how fun that is. If you used your time and effort to take down your opponent's health, your opponent should be the only one being able to recover it fully, not the pet.
No. That is exactly what the game should not be like. In Tic-tac-toe, you can indeed counter every move. So the game winds up in draw every time once people understand how to play it. Once you are past the age of about six or seven, it is an utterly boring game.

And if everything you do in PVP can be countered by a pet heal, then you don't know how to play very well. If you can't overpower someone past the help of their pets, you have not won. Period. Winning in PVP is winning against the entire array of the opponents resources and strategy -- including their pets! If you can't do that, you are not a winner, much less a "PVP king". Period.