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Changes to Reshuffle Spell

AuthorMessage
A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1681
Monsoon Jo on Apr 28, 2013 wrote:
PaulBofEL said:

Complete robbery of a training point. KI says reshuffle was never meant to be what it was? Why not? We spent the training point so we wouldn't have to buy tc reshuffle! Having it the way it was was worth the extra pip and the cost of the training point!

At central, someone e-mailed W101 support about this training point and apparently got it back. try doing the same thing.

dayerider said:

"Kewl, no problem, I'm a level 81 Fire Wizard with every spell up to Avalon. How should I redesign my deck? If all you're going to say is "design a better deck" and yet offer zero help on how to do it, then just stop saying it, because it's not helpful.

try reading the part about decks: https://www.wizard101.com/forum/azteca/promethean-now-feedbacks-please-8ad6a41c3afe62ca013b1a1d593f63ae

I dont know how much more spoonfeeding you need but your "stock" complaining isn't helping anyone here either.
Ah, see, now you're not only offering advice, but you're backing it up with a way I can learn more. That was exactly what I was talking about. Thank you. I will read that at my first convenience.

Explorer
Jun 10, 2012
95
Monsoon Jo on Apr 30, 2013 wrote:
So when an enemy heals a thousand points, you can't beat it anymore because you have limited reshuffle? Still, How often do you see this happen? I faced life enemies healing more than that and still end up overpowering them. I also soloed Jabberwock and used a single TC Reshuffle to finish him off (only 4 reshuffles in the sideboard). The pressure of making room for trained 4 or 5 reshuffle cards in your main deck can avoided by simply placing TC cards in your sideboard.
You're right, it has been very rare up to where I am now, but most of it has been in Azteca, and KI's clear pattern of trying to make the upper levels more challenging has been to simply give the enemies more health, more power pips, and more powerful spells rather than making them smarter, which makes the battles much longer, albeit not more difficult. If that pattern continues in future worlds, as I expect it will (programming a smarter AI is much harder than just adding power), Reshuffle will be increasingly needed.

As for treasure cards, the same argument applies: putting Reshuffle there means I can't put something else in those slots. The reason I trained it was so I wouldn't have to use treasure cards. And it's not about the training points--my balance wizard got it for free--but I do object to having one of her school spells nerfed for no reason. There was no problem with Reshuffle in PVE that needed to be solved. If there was one in PVP, that's where it should have been addressed.

A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1681
prairiefalcon on Apr 30, 2013 wrote:
That's how I always thought it did work, so I'd be perfectly fine with that.

As for the "infinite deck strategy" that some people are accusing us of relying on, there is no such thing. Reshuffle costs four pips, and eventually you will run out of mana, and in PVE, get killed by an enemy who has both an infinite deck and infinite mana. Players have never had infinite decks.
that's why I've said that without input from KI, it SEEMS like they're punishing us for finding a way to work within the system, to get done what we need to get done.

Survivor
Nov 27, 2009
35
KIngisle you made a bad move for changing reshuffle to one use per duel.
A lot wizards didn't want reshuffle change at all.
A for long time old reshuffle was fine in way.
Lots of wizards are mad right at you for limit reshuffle spell.
My question to you kingisle do you truely listen to players or was it ruse?
Back in past you have changes spell because one little minor part of game pvp.

Please heed the crys from sad wizards from both pvp and pve for once.

Note reshuffle shouldn't have change in first place i don't it was wise for you changing it now.

William Hawkgrove level 90 in balance.

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
You're right, it has been very rare up to where I am now, but most of it has been in Azteca, and KI's clear pattern of trying to make the upper levels more challenging has been to simply give the enemies more health, more power pips, and more powerful spells rather than making them smarter, which makes the battles much longer, albeit not more difficult. If that pattern continues in future worlds, as I expect it will (programming a smarter AI is much harder than just adding power), Reshuffle will be increasingly needed.
Thats a lot of "what if" scenarios. KI can also make the game less "reshuffle-dependent"?. Still, I can't see where endless reshuffle card is needed in PvE.

As for treasure cards, the same argument applies: putting Reshuffle there means I can't put something else in those slots. The reason I trained it was so I wouldn't have to use treasure cards. And it's not about the training points--my balance wizard got it for free--but I do object to having one of her school spells nerfed for no reason. There was no problem with Reshuffle in PVE that needed to be solved. If there was one in PVP, that's where it should have been addressed.
Agree, something must be done with the nerfed reshuffle. Balance school aside, I never trained reshuffle because of its pip-cost and the loss of a training point. TC reshuffle is one pip cheaper at the price of 1100 gold per piece.The drawback is negligible because I barely use it and gives me one less "precious" pip to spend. Unlike the trained reshuffle, there is no chance of drawing all of the TC copies on your first turn because it is in the sideboard. You can draw it "at will" too with a timely discard and proper sideboard card count. So to me, worrying about the shift of 2 trained cards to 3-4 slots lost in the sideboard is useless nitpicking already. Who needs the trained reshuffle when TC ones are relatively better in PvE. PvP is what I like to see being resolved.

Survivor
Nov 15, 2010
2
this reshuffle new rule make no sense why you guys never have time on the game when we doing rank so the person with the most life win an lower the percents of healing people can only two times in rank

Survivor
Apr 25, 2010
27
I will be honest. I don't think the shuffle update was a good idea. Sometimes it can make people lose easily in PvP . Sometimes the matches can go longer. Want to know how? People will have few cards left and pass the whole match. I think the shuffle update needs to change back to normal. The shuffle update can also cause problems in PvE (player vs Enemy). Some people likes to solo big bosses and it can take a long time sometimes. Honestly, it can ruin peoples' strategy for PvP. They use fast shuffle strategy. People now needs to add more shuffle to deck, I mean really? Honestly, I think it kind of a waste of space unless you have extra spaces.

Survivor
Jun 06, 2009
13
Hmm, this is quite a change for a spell i have used for so many years. But i believe it is for the better.
I think it will make not only PvP quite a different experience, but in quests and other such things it will definitely add another layer off difficulty.
I'm glad this change was made Stay awesome, guys.

A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1681
Shujiru924 on May 4, 2013 wrote:
Hmm, this is quite a change for a spell i have used for so many years. But i believe it is for the better.
I think it will make not only PvP quite a different experience, but in quests and other such things it will definitely add another layer off difficulty.
I'm glad this change was made Stay awesome, guys.
but do we really need another layer of difficulty? They already have things well stacked against us in PvE. Do you really feel it's THAT easy in PvE? I don't. I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's quite the challenge at upper levels

Defender
Aug 01, 2011
186
Shujiru924 on May 4, 2013 wrote:
Hmm, this is quite a change for a spell i have used for so many years. But i believe it is for the better.
I think it will make not only PvP quite a different experience, but in quests and other such things it will definitely add another layer off difficulty.
I'm glad this change was made Stay awesome, guys.
It's too hard already! We don't need more difficulty!

Survivor
Jun 06, 2009
13
dayerider on May 4, 2013 wrote:
but do we really need another layer of difficulty? They already have things well stacked against us in PvE. Do you really feel it's THAT easy in PvE? I don't. I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's quite the challenge at upper levels
Well, i have my opinions and you have yours. You have a few good points, but i still stand by what i said. Thank you for telling me what you think. Sorry if i angered you.
Bye

A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1681
Shujiru924 on May 7, 2013 wrote:
Well, i have my opinions and you have yours. You have a few good points, but i still stand by what i said. Thank you for telling me what you think. Sorry if i angered you.
Bye
you're good, you didn't anger me. I was merely asking if you felt it was too easy, and that while I thought it was harder than you seemed to, it wasn't impossible....... it's just that Reshuffle, how it used to be, allowed us to be a little bit more on an even playing field with the monsters who have unlimited mana and decks and we don't. We have much to overcome:

1) Cheating bosses that have guaranteed, sometimes multiple cheats
2) 3on1 boss fights where the enemy goes first many times
3) monsters have unlimited cards
4) monsters have unlimited mana
5) they get the next round of spells before we do
6) they start with HUGE amounts of pips as the levels get harder

tack on the change to reshuffle and it seems like everytime we figure out how to come close to breaking even, they ramp it up and make it harder. Im all for a challenge, I really am, but at least make it feasible solo without having to purchase henchmen

Now, we do get advantages too.

1) Pets with may-cast abilities
2) when we fill the fight circle, we actually have an advantage because it's 4 on 4 and not 4 on 5
3) We had access to an unlimited deck with the original reshuffle method
4) per fight, we had a ton of mana. I have never needed to refill my mana, from a full ball, after a single fight

So it's sort of balanced, but then again, not by a long shot. I do NOT want to just be HANDED the game, but a little easier would be nice.

Survivor
Dec 30, 2010
12
I under stand reasoning behind this change, However Player vs. Player you can still buy them.
Which in terms isn't bad, you have to gain gold to buy them. However It isn't really making many of my Player Vs. Player battles any shorter. Either way I don't mind the change. It is harder this way, and I have to make sure I do not discard everything. On the other hand if this is to slow down Player vs. player I would say instead of limiting the card for 1 use only per card it would be more effective this way:

3 Reshuffles can ONLY be used per fight. This would make it more useful in what you at KingsIsle are trying to set up.(From my point of view)
-
This would not be as limited on PvE players, Yet more challenging on the PvP end, and would require more thought put into the fight.
I know many people wouldn't agree with what I have posted. But I think this way would be better than the previous way.
However I like the challenge, So which ever will make PvP even more fun, I'm up for it! :)

Thanks again!

Henmoro,

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
Henmoro on May 10, 2013 wrote:
I under stand reasoning behind this change, However Player vs. Player you can still buy them.
Which in terms isn't bad, you have to gain gold to buy them. However It isn't really making many of my Player Vs. Player battles any shorter. Either way I don't mind the change. It is harder this way, and I have to make sure I do not discard everything. On the other hand if this is to slow down Player vs. player I would say instead of limiting the card for 1 use only per card it would be more effective this way:

3 Reshuffles can ONLY be used per fight. This would make it more useful in what you at KingsIsle are trying to set up.(From my point of view)
-
This would not be as limited on PvE players, Yet more challenging on the PvP end, and would require more thought put into the fight.
I know many people wouldn't agree with what I have posted. But I think this way would be better than the previous way.
However I like the challenge, So which ever will make PvP even more fun, I'm up for it! :)

Thanks again!

Henmoro,
I like this idea.

Also, why not make a PvP standard deck where only a fixed total amount of cards as well as per piece can be placed on both main and sideboards? This way, everyone knows that one can only have enough cards to play out their strategy. Metagames can then develop where popular deck builds can emerge and be tested against new ones as W101 continues to create new worlds (therefore, new spells) for PvE. Cutting off endless reshuffle, removal of puppet teams and extra pips for those who didnt get the chance play first are solid steps already. But I think adding something constant like a fixed deck will do good. An example would be a max total of 30 cards, 10 sideboard, 3 card pieces each for private level. This will then increase in number as you improve to a knight, commander etc,. Pairing of combatants will then be level based.

I know its a very rough idea, but with the help of avid PvP players here something similar could work. Ki is on the brink of igniting players to try PvP again, I really like to see this happen.

Explorer
Mar 02, 2009
71
THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL! I've been playing W101 since it came out and have never used a reshuffle. None have ever been used on me, and I don't need them. Obviously KI had reasons to add this. You could otherwise load your deck with frost beetles or firecats and win a PVP fight if you have a good pet. This is a good change that stops abuse. If you don't need reshuffles at all to play/win/enjoy the game, why is this change so important? If you anyone needs to majorly adjust their deck because of this change it means that you have not enjoyed the full potential of enjoying different strategies in the game. If in a few months people are still not pleased, then maybe KI should change it back. But try out the change before refusing it!

Survivor
Jun 03, 2012
17
Personally I have no issue with the changes to the reshuffle spell mainly because it makes pvp matches way too long. Eventually it gets annoying. Now I know there's always the I have a small deck thing and need reshuffle to keep going, but all this update means is that you have to improvise a little. Change isn't always easy so I suggest that we make the most of it

Cya in the Spiral

Blake TitanCaller Lvl 80

Explorer
May 18, 2010
62
I wasn't too thrilled about the reshuffle update either. I usually kept 3 reshuffles in my deck, one for myself and the others for any others who needed it. Now I'm using all 3 to keep my deck balanced and can't really use it on others unless it's urgent.

I do not think the change to Reshuffle was necessary. It's only causing more complaints.

Reshuffle should be able to place itself back into the deck-not disappear forever during the match and rely on the other reshuffles you have (and hope you didn't discard because it was taking up space).

Explorer
Jul 16, 2012
62
So, let me get this straight... Reshuffle is now effectively a TC? Great.

A+ Student
Jan 11, 2012
1681
xxAaronxx121 on Jun 5, 2013 wrote:
I wasn't too thrilled about the reshuffle update either. I usually kept 3 reshuffles in my deck, one for myself and the others for any others who needed it. Now I'm using all 3 to keep my deck balanced and can't really use it on others unless it's urgent.

I do not think the change to Reshuffle was necessary. It's only causing more complaints.

Reshuffle should be able to place itself back into the deck-not disappear forever during the match and rely on the other reshuffles you have (and hope you didn't discard because it was taking up space).
I think (after taking along time away from this thread and coming back to it fresh and most likely more neutral than I was before) that people relied on this to be a never ending deck. They felt that it may have been more fair since monsters have the neverending deck. The brilliant part of the idea was to always have the card you want on hand and be able to boost it accordingly. People who run with minimized decks didnt want to have to blaot their decks out with cards that dont work or change the percentage they'd get what they wanted. What I started doing, and havent put it to any real challenge was to carry the biggest deck I could, to give me the most off school spells I could carry, keep the deck stocked minimally, then load up on the reshuffles. I have some heals, blades, enhancements and a 3 attack spells (besides wands). I havent put it to a major test yet tho, so I might find this doesnt work well. I have been having a hard time getting the strategy that works for me, and reshuffle seemed to be a right approach, but even then it wasn't.

MY big complaint with the changes were that:
1) I finally (seemed to) caught on to a winning play and now it was taken from me
2) They're taking away another way we had to keep up with the bosses; an almost endless deck.

Here's my thing with the reshuffle change:
Since the one reshuffle card you played was NOT used or discarded, it should NOT be reshuffled back into the deck. Let's say you have 5, and you use 1 after discarding the other 4. it should only place the 4 back into your deck and not the one you're using because the state of the card at the time of use.

Explorer
Nov 17, 2012
91
hehehe i gotta both agree and disagree with this update 1: it's good so now we know battles will not last forever and 2:it's bad because people now try harder to not delete their cards which make it even harder than ever and now 3 times as many players are using only defensive gear in ranked pvp because they want to survive since reshuffle is now a 1 use only card so i say this actually makes the players have an even longer battle, I mean i see lvl 5 people with over 73 resist (I can tell they have a higher lvl wizard and they gave that pet to the weaker 1 and the pet had spell proof and other resistance) so that's what happened people are more focused on resist than attacks ever since reshuffle changed which is really lame (Blaze Moonmender promethean)

Survivor
Jan 27, 2013
3
This is a bad to wizards because some wizards might need the spell to fix there deck but for me i have to put more of the spell in my deck so i can use it more then once but the old way i only need one for me or two for me and some one who is on mine team

Explorer
May 18, 2010
62
chopper99933 on Jun 5, 2013 wrote:
hehehe i gotta both agree and disagree with this update 1: it's good so now we know battles will not last forever and 2:it's bad because people now try harder to not delete their cards which make it even harder than ever and now 3 times as many players are using only defensive gear in ranked pvp because they want to survive since reshuffle is now a 1 use only card so i say this actually makes the players have an even longer battle, I mean i see lvl 5 people with over 73 resist (I can tell they have a higher lvl wizard and they gave that pet to the weaker 1 and the pet had spell proof and other resistance) so that's what happened people are more focused on resist than attacks ever since reshuffle changed which is really lame (Blaze Moonmender promethean)
Not last forever? When people run out of cards for PvP, they'll just sit there and pass constantly until the opponent flees. It would be easier to attack them and kill them instead of waiting for someone to flee when they do run out of cards.

Survivor
Nov 21, 2012
25
Well, I'd like to say: Thank you Ms. Greyrose! Well this makes PvP WAY shorter, I don't know why people shoudn't like this update!

~Jack Wraith.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
xxAaronxx121 on Jun 6, 2013 wrote:
Not last forever? When people run out of cards for PvP, they'll just sit there and pass constantly until the opponent flees. It would be easier to attack them and kill them instead of waiting for someone to flee when they do run out of cards.
Aaronxx121,

You got it, this is exactly what is happening in PVP now, and has been since the Reshuffle change.
I have seen matches last 5 to 7 hours now, that would never have lasted that long, if the person
could have used the fast reshuffle technique. As the other posting stated, people are going in
with the defensive build, even dragging out the match longer, plus you have the Jade Gear tossed in.
You can't get a solid Critical build without being a glass missle, and that only seems to work well with
storm and in some cases death.
The new gear in the Test realm will only make matters worst, and will not solve the on-going problem.
As you also stated, players are now getting to a point where they just pass over and over.
Not to mention they are passing a lot more in the game, as it is, because of the reshuffle fix.
Most are just hoping the other will run out of reshuffles and cards, so they can win.

This is exactly why KI needs to add Time limits to the matches, not the number of turns.
This would blend well with the reshuffle change, because you can add only the number of reshuffles you
need for the time limit you will be in.

Note to KI, this should be your top priority with our summer just a few days away. Fix this mess, and get it to the Test Realm please.

Explorer
Nov 17, 2012
91
Veracity8 on Jun 6, 2013 wrote:
Aaronxx121,

You got it, this is exactly what is happening in PVP now, and has been since the Reshuffle change.
I have seen matches last 5 to 7 hours now, that would never have lasted that long, if the person
could have used the fast reshuffle technique. As the other posting stated, people are going in
with the defensive build, even dragging out the match longer, plus you have the Jade Gear tossed in.
You can't get a solid Critical build without being a glass missle, and that only seems to work well with
storm and in some cases death.
The new gear in the Test realm will only make matters worst, and will not solve the on-going problem.
As you also stated, players are now getting to a point where they just pass over and over.
Not to mention they are passing a lot more in the game, as it is, because of the reshuffle fix.
Most are just hoping the other will run out of reshuffles and cards, so they can win.

This is exactly why KI needs to add Time limits to the matches, not the number of turns.
This would blend well with the reshuffle change, because you can add only the number of reshuffles you
need for the time limit you will be in.

Note to KI, this should be your top priority with our summer just a few days away. Fix this mess, and get it to the Test Realm please.
rofl i see what ya mean i faced lots of people who pass when they run out of cards.