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Ban Treasure Cards from Ranked PvP matches

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jan 01, 2009
2
windtracer wrote:
glamourboy wrote:
I totally disagree with this. Because Tower Shields are the only shields against balance opponents. Think about it, without that shield, how can you defend against judgement? Besides Absorb which doesnt really do much.




A++ I agree, can't argue with that


if that's what you guys think then become a thaumaturge! I just today fought a guy who used shields from every school (this was a ranked match) and it was nearly impossible to defeat him even though i was 20 levels stronger than him! If you ask me that's just not right.:?

Survivor
Mar 25, 2009
15
I don't use my tresasure cards unless there buffs, as a balance student I have a bit of buffs and debuffs. I beat another wizard over 10 levels ahead of me by using my buffs to my strongest spell, witch at the time was locast sworm and the banshee. I had 2 main buffs, balanceblade and some other one that's +30% power. Altogether with my spell came out at around 700 hit points , for a level 13 wizard that's preatty good right?

Explorer
Feb 07, 2009
85
I THINK THEY SHOULD LETS THE LOWER LVL WIZARDS USE THEM IN PvP I say this because if you are fighting aganst someone who is lvl ten you can kill them in one or two attacks. But lets say you fighting aganst a lvl twenty one and you are twenty nine they should not be able to use them . so ban them if the person is much lower than the person he is fighting. I DONT WANNA FIGHT A MASTER WITHOUT THEM!

Survivor
Feb 05, 2009
21
treasure CARDS SHOULDNT BE BANNED I THINK THEY SHOULD BE MORE AS IN A SURPRISE TO OTHER PLAYERS BUT I AGREE THAT THE TOWER SHIELD THING IS JUST STALLING I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD approve your deck in the library and become this dictionary that says you can only have this much of this card like three tower shields max and two stormzillas two tritons etc

Survivor
Aug 09, 2008
20
Treasure cards should definately be allowed. You cannot have spells from all schools, so treasure cards make it interesting. They add much more strategy, and prevent form duels being as boring.

Defender
Sep 22, 2008
117
erv7 wrote:
Firefly555 wrote:
yes please ban treasure cards from pvp and then make it menu chat only.
Consider rewarding players for being helpful to other players to encourage good behavior on the game. pvp has created a hateful atmosphere.


we should not ban treasure cards it helps you be prepared for bigger monster or evil people like mailistare if he replies to me ill scream

Um... I only said that treasure cards shouldn't be used in ranked arena matches, you don't fight Malistaire in the arena.
P.S. If there is an administrator who fights in ranked matches, you probably have had this experience too. It isn't making the duels very fun so please give us your opinion as well.

Survivor
Feb 14, 2009
2
skbronco6 wrote:
Treasure cards can keep a match going forever or cause a match to end in a minute. Also, it isn't as much fun battling someone with say 20 tower shield treasure cards in a ranked match. In practice matches it would be fine because there is nothing at stake but it takes the fun out of ranked matches when people are just using suked up treasure cards to win every battle.



yo.. I am an Ice wizard so i get a tower shield it doesn't make a difference.

Administrator
Thank you for your input on the current state of the Player vs Player system.

I just wanted to let you know that we have changes to stun planned for a future update, and we are going to look at the 'treasure card factory' problem.



{o,o}
  |)_)
 -?-?-
Explorer
Mar 14, 2009
88
if you use a treusure card in a pvp battle do get the card back

Survivor
Jul 11, 2008
4
I totally think we need treasures in the arena. For one I like to beef up my attacks sometimes with "strong." I like to decrease their fizzle rate with "keen eyes." I would not do this for any other reason besides duels.
Also we NEED tower shields in the arena. How else are we going to be able to defend ourselves against balance players?? I never enter the arena without my tower packed, nor would I.
The only 2 treasure cards that I see abused in the arena and stuns and wild bolts.
Please please do not take away treasures for the arena, they help so much and are very srategic.
I love the arena and would hate to see it so drastically changed by not being able to use treasure cards.

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
2
sewwhat wrote:
I totally think we need treasures in the arena. For one I like to beef up my attacks sometimes with "strong." I like to decrease their fizzle rate with "keen eyes." I would not do this for any other reason besides duels.
Also we NEED tower shields in the arena. How else are we going to be able to defend ourselves against balance players?? I never enter the arena without my tower packed, nor would I.
The only 2 treasure cards that I see abused in the arena and stuns and wild bolts.
Please please do not take away treasures for the arena, they help so much and are very srategic.
I love the arena and would hate to see it so drastically changed by not being able to use treasure cards.


There is nothing strategic about discarding and towering every other round. It makes duels boring, a pain, and last unecessarily long. You can get tower shields from the ice school, so you will still have defense against balance players.

The main reason you want treasure cards is because it makes it easy to win, no skill required. You complained about wild bolts, the only reason people "spam" them is because they can use Keen Eyes on it. Factor in your accuracy increase from clothes, and you have a pretty good chance of it not fizzling.

I suggest getting rid of Treasure cards; not only will this balance out the game, but choosing your secondary schools will actually MATTER. Why go ice if you can just Treasure tower spam?

Not to mention the stun issue... Good luck Kings Isle, hope you make the right choices.

Survivor
Oct 26, 2008
33
There is nothing strategic about discarding and towering every other round. It makes duels boring, a pain, and last unecessarily long. You can get tower shields from the ice school, so you will still have defense against balance players.

The main reason you want treasure cards is because it makes it easy to win, no skill required. You complained about wild bolts, the only reason people "spam" them is because they can use Keen Eyes on it. Factor in your accuracy increase from clothes, and you have a pretty good chance of it not fizzling.

I suggest getting rid of Treasure cards; not only will this balance out the game, but choosing your secondary schools will actually MATTER. Why go ice if you can just Treasure tower spam?


There is actually a lot of strategy in discarding to use a treasure card. What do you get rid of? Will you need it later in the duel? There is plenty of strategy in how you choose to use treasure cards. If you are having difficulty with getting rid of tower shields try a damage over time spell. Fire elves are great for this. Two pips to get rid of up to four tower shields, and any fire shields your opponent may have up.

Wild Bolts are what they are. They are a bit unfair, but I have seen more people lose duels who spam them. Those people sacrifice three turns on average to successfully deal 1000 - 1200 damage (assuming they aren't storm, and don't have blades for them) unless in that time you are able to shield. I try to make sure I put up some sort of shield if I see a non-storm wizard fizzle a storm spell.

Getting rid of treasure cards creates an imbalance, and necessitates that if you plan on dueling in PvP given the current matching system that you will need to take ice school to use tower shields against balance school wizards who are difficult to defend against.

There are many reasons to choose ice school as a secondary. Even taking it only to get towers, you also get a fire/storm shield, and all shields that are not the same card will stack, so using ice tower shields stacked with a treasure tower shield you can reduce a judgement spell to less than 25% damage. Also treasure cards are a finite supply. They are not replenished if you reshuffle, so if you take a longer time against someone only using treasure towers, even if they put up one every other round, and have twenty, they will run out after forty rounds. Also, if you wait and knock out a few at a time with a damage over time spell they will run out faster, and will have openings that will allow you to hit them unshielded.

Survivor
Aug 31, 2008
2
Please at least LIMIT the number of a type of treasure cards you can carry in a duel. It's 4 for most cards, why not 4 then? I had two duels back to back where my opponent chain cast 14 tower shields each duel (yes, two different people). There is no skill involved in this (because yes, they both still lost - but it must have taken a good 45 minutes each to finish these type of fights).

Survivor
Apr 03, 2009
1
Do you loose you Treasure cards once you use them in pvp battle

Survivor
Oct 26, 2008
33
If your opponent used 14 treasure tower shields then each duel cost them 2,450 gold. They do come at a price.

Also as I stated above; if your opponent is casting multiple tower shields just use a treasure fire elf, (if you can't use the regular ones), and that will take down multiple towers. You can use one inexpensive card to eliminate several more costly cards. Treasure cards can be strategic. There is little strategy in having all towers in treasures, but you can be strategic in getting rid of them.

As to the last respondent: Yes, they are single use, and then are gone. You cannot reuse a treasure card unless it fizzles. If it fizzles then it goes back into your deck.

Survivor
Mar 21, 2009
2
I agree completely, I have had ice students resort to using rebirth treasure cards because they were the only one left in a ranked 4v4. Once all his partners were brought back to life, he used another one a turn or two later healing them all and making them impossible to kill. We lost they won. As for the tower shields issue, if one wishes to block a balance attack, one should actually LEARN THE SPELL. Having treasure cards to block balance spells with it should only be usable if you have actually learned it.
Using it as a treasure card sort of defeats the purpose. If you're too lazy to learn the spell, and you buy a trillion treasure cards, it ruins the whole concept of the pvp matches.

Survivor
Sep 27, 2008
8
skbronco6 wrote:
Treasure cards can keep a match going forever or cause a match to end in a minute. Also, it isn't as much fun battling someone with say 20 tower shield treasure cards in a ranked match. In practice matches it would be fine because there is nothing at stake but it takes the fun out of ranked matches when people are just using suked up treasure cards to win every battle.


I completely disagree with you. There is a limited amount of treasure cards that you can hold, so you can't just go and say, 'Treasure cards make the match go on and on for like FOREVER!' It's hard to collect treasure cards or make them. THey earned it and they should have the right to use it! IT's like saying ' Life wizards, don't use heals or Myth, don't summon minions or Death, don't use traps.' Anyone can use it, and that what makes PvP fun! You are challenghed, unlike PvE. YOu have to use different spells and think of strategies!

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
2
bim1997 wrote:
skbronco6 wrote:
Treasure cards can keep a match going forever or cause a match to end in a minute. Also, it isn't as much fun battling someone with say 20 tower shield treasure cards in a ranked match. In practice matches it would be fine because there is nothing at stake but it takes the fun out of ranked matches when people are just using suked up treasure cards to win every battle.


I completely disagree with you. There is a limited amount of treasure cards that you can hold, so you can't just go and say, 'Treasure cards make the match go on and on for like FOREVER!' It's hard to collect treasure cards or make them. THey earned it and they should have the right to use it! IT's like saying ' Life wizards, don't use heals or Myth, don't summon minions or Death, don't use traps.' Anyone can use it, and that what makes PvP fun! You are challenghed, unlike PvE. YOu have to use different spells and think of strategies!


Limited amount of treasure cards? That "limit" is what makes games last two hours, which is frankly ridiculous. You sound like you're not even speaking from experience, have you even been in a duel where you aren't physically able to deal more damage than your opponents can heal/shield with treasure cards?

In an earlier post, someone said treasure cards come at a price, couple hours killing enemies in dragonspyre, and you can get 30,000 gold. That's pretty much enough for a life-time supply of treasure towers.

As for them being "hard to collect", that's also not true. If you know anything about treasure cards, you know how people make them. I can make about 100 cards in 20 minutes (only certain spells can be made into treasure cards though, mind you). Which basically just means, get a friend who is a storm wizard to make you some wild bolts, and a life wizard to make you some dryads/rebirths.

With the recent update of the spells, PvP has been completely thrown out of the "balance" loop. And with the addition of people spamming treasure cards, it made PvP for me un-enjoyable. So i'm patiently awaiting for this supposed fix to the stun madness, and balancing out these crazy new spells.

Survivor
Dec 31, 2008
37
Limited amount of treasure cards? That "limit" is what makes games last two hours, which is frankly ridiculous. You sound like you're not even speaking from experience, have you even been in a duel where you aren't physically able to deal more damage than your opponents can heal/shield with treasure cards?
It isn't the treasure cards that are accounting for 2-hour matches, but rather the game's natural bias towards healing over damage. I can speak from experience, and I will tell you that with few exceptions the only time I have to contend with these extra-long matches is when both sides are packing Life wizards in their ranks. Or, rarely, a Balance wizard with an armload of Helping Hands and a Sanctuary spell in her pocket.

Treasure cards were just as prevalent -- and traded -- a month or two ago, back when the arena still carried its infamous 30% damage bonus. And yet duels were universally much shorter than they are today.

In an earlier post, someone said treasure cards come at a price, couple hours killing enemies in dragonspyre, and you can get 30,000 gold. That's pretty much enough for a life-time supply of treasure towers.
Who cares? Towers aren't exactly deflector shields. If I really have to, I can blow right through them with a well-constructed Judgement spell. Or if worse comes to worse, I'll just counter Mr. Tower Spammer with wave after wave of 1-pip, Keen Eye Ice Beetles. You'd be amazed at how satisfying it is to watch a 25-gold piece card take out that 175-gold piece investment.

And yes, that's exactly what I do -- and it works. I speak from experience when I say that it can be a very effective tactic.

As for them being "hard to collect", that's also not true. If you know anything about treasure cards, you know how people make them. I can make about 100 cards in 20 minutes (only certain spells can be made into treasure cards though, mind you). Which basically just means, get a friend who is a storm wizard to make you some wild bolts, and a life wizard to make you some dryads/rebirths.
I agree that this is problematic. I admit that I die a little inside every time I see a Fire wizard (for instance) cast a Rebirth spell -- even if it did cost him his entire rack of pips just to do it.

But the problem isn't the treasure cards themselves, but rather that the rules for trading them are too loose, and are diluting the differences between the schools. As such, I see no problem with being able to make any treasure card you want, so long as it's allowed by your school(s); but if you can't find them down at your local Library, then I don't think they should be trade-able.

Survivor
Dec 31, 2008
41
Really wish people would stop throwing around banning like it is always the solution.


There are two reasons to ban something, either it creates an NPE, negative play experiance, for the majority of people playing, or it creates a situation you can't get around. Since in 80% of the cases it is actually how you get around a situation it isn't the second. As far as NPE, are you capable of contending with it? yes. Are the same options available to you? With some effort yes. Do you have to do it or you can't possibly win? No. Then your not forced into it, it isn't the only way to win, not going to create a true NPE. Now when you get you butt handed to you by a treasure card, your not happy about it, but it isn't a walk away from the game experiance.

If people want to start talking about restricting what you can use in the arena then wait until there is some semblence of balance in the levels. As it is right now, the only reason I haven't gone through and leveled the playing field with treasure cards traded from my high level to low level is because I'm still messing around with the arena and killing time until I get the tickets I need to buy the gear I want, then I'll push for ranking.

Do I think that a level 16 using a 7 pip card is annoying, yes because that isn't the power level of the character, do I expect it, occasionally. Very rarely are you going to be surprised when your going to be hit with a massive spell, get used to judging what your opponent is wearing. Are they mismatched and hodgpodged? Probably not going to have a hidden nuke, because they are scraping by. They wearing old crown gear that is black on anything else? You're probably about to get your butt handed to you, because they have both the time, and the money at one point to gather things slowly.

In the end, the game has a very CCG style to combat. Your schools limit what your base cards are, but the side board is where you have real choices right before a match, the people who put the effort into stocking it with what they want will have an edge, if you don't pack anything to hedge your bet if they do it was by your choice. On my main I had six monsterous Stormzillas, just in case something went horribly wrong. Didn't use them until dragonspyre bosses, but kept them there in case. If you don't want to use treasure cards don't, but know other people are going to. Put something in there in the event everything has gone wrong because of someone's spell, maybe trade someone for scarecrows? Then you know you can at least fight back if someone else doesn't decided to follow your own personal rules on treaure cards.

Survivor
Dec 16, 2008
1
:x avery person who dissagrees is correct they made treasure cards so you can see how other classes are in power and effectiveness so it should be used in pvp matches and besides there paying for them so if they wanna spend there money on a pvp match they should

Defender
Feb 07, 2009
155
I never saw someone use Tower Sheild over and over, but this is a way to get rid of all the sheilds.

Use Earthquake! It takes out every sheild an enemy casts.

Survivor
Jan 24, 2009
38
Banning Treasure Cards in Ranked matches gets a from me! I hate being destroyed by a low lvl just because they had a triton, hydra, minotaur, whatever treasure card from their friend. Ban treasure cards! They're overused in ranked matches!

- Wolf DarkShard, Level 41, Storm Master. Seriously, ban those golden cards.

Survivor
Dec 20, 2008
1
I think treasure cards are fine, in general. I feel the problem comes when other players use Stun or Beguile excessively. Beguile used to NOT work in the area, and now it does. Beguile especially become problematic for the team going second. So it truly becomes an unfair match. As for stunning, whether first or second, it also does not seem right when the other team is chain stunned, and does not even get a chance to play. It is unethical play like this, that some wizards use to elevate their PVP ranks. It's a dilemma for those how would like to play a fair match.

Defender
Sep 28, 2008
105
This is definitely a double edged sword. I recently was a victim of one level 18 myth wizard who very rarely threw any of his own level school spells. They were all treasure cards from ice shields to Orthrus. Was it because that was the only way he could win? That I can not say as like I stated he rarely if any ever threw his own school level spells. Should they be banned? No, I can not see banning as a solution. Should they be limited? No, that is not a viable solution either. Should they continue to be allowed. Yes, I am afraid so. This is after all, a game where treasure or gold cards are as big if not more a part of your deck as your own school is. Do I like the fact that with the right deck you can "load up" on treasure cards and win all your battles with them? No, I can't say as I do. Then of course I have to realize that I look at the arena a whole different way then do some. I see it as a place of honor and a place that you can face an opponent, do battle and then walk away with a different outlook on whatever happened. I did not say win the match. I mean you can come away with a little knowledge that you could use the next time. I new technique, or a new strategy or even a new friend. The arenas, since times of the knights, have been a place to face opponents and match your wits against each other. A place of honor and "civilized" combat. Do I still see that today? Its rare but yes, and those are the fights that keep me coming back to the arena. The fact that there are still some who strive to higher levels. Maybe one day we can all be able to do battles that way. Where we can do harm to one another and be safe in the fact that the arena is the only place that anyone actually dies only to be met outside by a smiling face and a "Good match."

Face me and do so with honor. You may win or lose but you will always get a fair fight. Regardless of the outcome.

James DeathHammer
lvl 50 GrandMaster
Master of Death
No Retreat No Surrender
And No One gets
left Behind