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Sun serpent in pvp

AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 21, 2010
44
i have used sun serpent many times in pvp and i find it to be a pretty weak spell comepared to other spells fire has gotten.i understand it is supposed to hit one person for 900-1000 damage and hit everyone for 300 damge, but i feel like the damge to everyone should be 400-550. What is everyone else's thoughts about it. Im not saying it is bad or ki isnt putting thought into spells just wondering why it does a low amount.i am just disappointed.

Survivor
May 02, 2012
11
Sun serpent is the only spell that actually hits all enemies. All the other schools only hit one person. So that 300 seems like a pretty fair amount and that would make sun serpent even closer to the amount storm owl does.

Explorer
Jul 23, 2012
80
I know it is only 100 more total damage than rain of fire. KI please up the damage by 200-400.

Champion
Feb 03, 2012
406
Well the seoncd suggested amount is fine, but if you add that to the original amount that would be a maximum of 1550 damage, not saying that it's bad but i think it should be 1000-1100 to target, then what ever number you want to everyone else but the target.

Survivor
Jun 18, 2012
1
i know blaze well zoidlover1 and the spell sun serpent is NOT the only spell that hits everyone. The Avenging Fossil also hits everyone. I'm not sure if you know but sun serpent hits ONE enemy for 900-1000 damage and 300 damage to everyone.

Survivor
May 21, 2010
44
zoidlover1,plz notice that storm's new spell ,storm owl, does +500-600 than levy and levy also hits one target while fire's damage in total does 100 more damage than RoF and RoF hits all for then same amount of damge so sun serpent is a major decrease in power.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
crystal2020164 on Dec 4, 2012 wrote:
zoidlover1,plz notice that storm's new spell ,storm owl, does +500-600 than levy and levy also hits one target while fire's damage in total does 100 more damage than RoF and RoF hits all for then same amount of damge so sun serpent is a major decrease in power.
Rain of Fire is a DoT which traditionally do more damage than other types of spells since DoT damage are spread over three rounds. Note also that leviathan has an added effect which decreases it's damage compared to pure damage spells. Sun Serpent does the correct amount of damage. It needs no boost imo.

Survivor
May 21, 2010
44
fateskin,have you ever used sun serpent if you have you will know it is pretty weak. Storm owl does 500-600 more damage than levy without the effect so why doesn't fire get a 300-500 boost.DoT spells are'nt always the strongest spells.Even though fire is good at DoT spells we can also hit many people at once. why can't sun serpent do 900-1000 to all enemies instead of 900-1000 to one enemy and 300 to the rest. It is a waste of pips when you think about it. Try to use the spells before saying things about them i have a lvl 89 fire, 88 storm, and a 89 myth. I have used storm owl and sun serpent and storm owl does a lot more damge.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
crystal2020164 on Dec 4, 2012 wrote:
fateskin,have you ever used sun serpent if you have you will know it is pretty weak. Storm owl does 500-600 more damage than levy without the effect so why doesn't fire get a 300-500 boost.DoT spells are'nt always the strongest spells.Even though fire is good at DoT spells we can also hit many people at once. why can't sun serpent do 900-1000 to all enemies instead of 900-1000 to one enemy and 300 to the rest. It is a waste of pips when you think about it. Try to use the spells before saying things about them i have a lvl 89 fire, 88 storm, and a 89 myth. I have used storm owl and sun serpent and storm owl does a lot more damge.
DoTs by nature always do more damage per pip than straight damage attacks within said school's parameters. Of course storm owl is more powerful: it is a single hit spell that belongs to the storm school which traditionally has the highest damage per pip spells in game. Sun Serpent is actually 900-1000 to one enemy and then 300 to all enemies including the first one. So in effect the spell is 1200-1300 to one enemy and 300 to the rest. That is well within acceptable damage ranges for fire.

Explorer
Jul 23, 2012
80
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 7, 2012 wrote:
DoTs by nature always do more damage per pip than straight damage attacks within said school's parameters. Of course storm owl is more powerful: it is a single hit spell that belongs to the storm school which traditionally has the highest damage per pip spells in game. Sun Serpent is actually 900-1000 to one enemy and then 300 to all enemies including the first one. So in effect the spell is 1200-1300 to one enemy and 300 to the rest. That is well within acceptable damage ranges for fire.
i dont get why you are bringing DoTs into this because sun serpent isnt a DoT.. Lets look at rain of fire compare to sun serpent. RoF does 1200 damage to all enemies over 3 rounds. Sun serpent does 400 more damage to ONE enemy and 900 LESS damage to the rest. KI please make sun serpent higher damage or add something like an accuracy decrease.

Astrologist
Oct 22, 2011
1073
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 7, 2012 wrote:
DoTs by nature always do more damage per pip than straight damage attacks within said school's parameters. Of course storm owl is more powerful: it is a single hit spell that belongs to the storm school which traditionally has the highest damage per pip spells in game. Sun Serpent is actually 900-1000 to one enemy and then 300 to all enemies including the first one. So in effect the spell is 1200-1300 to one enemy and 300 to the rest. That is well within acceptable damage ranges for fire.
What you are saying makes perfect sense. It's a shame others don't understand the concept of single hit or DoT's. Sun Serpent damage is within the confines of what is intended. Damage levels do not need to be raised.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
cowstastegood on Dec 8, 2012 wrote:
i dont get why you are bringing DoTs into this because sun serpent isnt a DoT.. Lets look at rain of fire compare to sun serpent. RoF does 1200 damage to all enemies over 3 rounds. Sun serpent does 400 more damage to ONE enemy and 900 LESS damage to the rest. KI please make sun serpent higher damage or add something like an accuracy decrease.
I bought DoTs into this because both you and sparks are attempting to use Rain of Fire as a reference point to support your argument. I am pointing out that doing so is not meaningful because of the different nature of DoTs relative to regular spells such as sun serpent. What is meaningful is whether the spell is doing the typical damage per pip as expected of fire spells. At 120-130 damage per pip to a single enemy AND an additional 300 damage to other wizards this is well within fire's expected damage per pip ratio.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
I agree, the new fire spell doesn't really add enough to measure up to the hype of the other spells.

Explorer
Jul 23, 2012
80
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 12, 2012 wrote:
I bought DoTs into this because both you and sparks are attempting to use Rain of Fire as a reference point to support your argument. I am pointing out that doing so is not meaningful because of the different nature of DoTs relative to regular spells such as sun serpent. What is meaningful is whether the spell is doing the typical damage per pip as expected of fire spells. At 120-130 damage per pip to a single enemy AND an additional 300 damage to other wizards this is well within fire's expected damage per pip ratio.
The reason we are using RoF as a reference point is because it was the last spell fire got. And RoF being a DoT proves me and spark's point even more. If RoF does 1200 to all plus it is a DoT it is stronger than a normal damage spell like Sun Serpent which does 1300 to one and 300 to the rest. Assuming we were in a battle with for enemies, rain of fire does 4800 total while sun serpent does only 2200. LESS THAN HALF of rain of fire for another pip. I dont want a spell that costs more pips than the last spell and does less damage. I am not talking about what dots do by nature and regular spells. I am comparing to the last spell we got to see the jump down in damage. I will do the other situations for you, 3 in battle is 3600 RoF 1900 sun serpent, 2 in battle is 2400 RoF 1600 SS, and 1 in battle is 1200 RoF 1300 SS. Only time SS is better than RoF is on one enemy which in azteca is rare if not never. I dont get why you care so much that fire's spell isn't strong enough. Fire isn't strong in pvp anyway.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
cowstastegood on Dec 12, 2012 wrote:
The reason we are using RoF as a reference point is because it was the last spell fire got. And RoF being a DoT proves me and spark's point even more. If RoF does 1200 to all plus it is a DoT it is stronger than a normal damage spell like Sun Serpent which does 1300 to one and 300 to the rest. Assuming we were in a battle with for enemies, rain of fire does 4800 total while sun serpent does only 2200. LESS THAN HALF of rain of fire for another pip. I dont want a spell that costs more pips than the last spell and does less damage. I am not talking about what dots do by nature and regular spells. I am comparing to the last spell we got to see the jump down in damage. I will do the other situations for you, 3 in battle is 3600 RoF 1900 sun serpent, 2 in battle is 2400 RoF 1600 SS, and 1 in battle is 1200 RoF 1300 SS. Only time SS is better than RoF is on one enemy which in azteca is rare if not never. I dont get why you care so much that fire's spell isn't strong enough. Fire isn't strong in pvp anyway.
If you don't understand the nature of spells then your entire argument adds no valuable knowledge. So what if an AoE such as Rain of Fire does more total damage against 4 opponents? That makes perfect sense since it was designed as an AoE. Sun Serpent is a completely different Template. It is intended to do a large amount of Damage to one opponent and smaller amounts to the rest. Being a large single hit up front rather than a DoT it can make better use of traps in general. Your argument that damage shouldnt go down as you rank up even when the very nature of the spells is fundamentally different makes very little sense. Using your logic Sirens is underpowered since it does less damage than leviathan. Your statement that fire isn't good in PvP is similarly incorrect. Fire and Myth are traditionally considered the top tier schools in PvP with Ice's ridiculous gear propelling them into either first or second tier.

Champion
Feb 03, 2012
406
cowstastegood on Dec 12, 2012 wrote:
The reason we are using RoF as a reference point is because it was the last spell fire got. And RoF being a DoT proves me and spark's point even more. If RoF does 1200 to all plus it is a DoT it is stronger than a normal damage spell like Sun Serpent which does 1300 to one and 300 to the rest. Assuming we were in a battle with for enemies, rain of fire does 4800 total while sun serpent does only 2200. LESS THAN HALF of rain of fire for another pip. I dont want a spell that costs more pips than the last spell and does less damage. I am not talking about what dots do by nature and regular spells. I am comparing to the last spell we got to see the jump down in damage. I will do the other situations for you, 3 in battle is 3600 RoF 1900 sun serpent, 2 in battle is 2400 RoF 1600 SS, and 1 in battle is 1200 RoF 1300 SS. Only time SS is better than RoF is on one enemy which in azteca is rare if not never. I dont get why you care so much that fire's spell isn't strong enough. Fire isn't strong in pvp anyway.
Lets not forget that rain is an aoe meaning it's suppose to be strong against everyone, serpent is really just a single hit, if we take out that secondary effect and put all that energy into it's initial attack it'll probably be a good 1500-1600 damage to one enemy. Serpent is not an aoe, well not a traditional one anyways.

Explorer
Jul 23, 2012
80
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 13, 2012 wrote:
If you don't understand the nature of spells then your entire argument adds no valuable knowledge. So what if an AoE such as Rain of Fire does more total damage against 4 opponents? That makes perfect sense since it was designed as an AoE. Sun Serpent is a completely different Template. It is intended to do a large amount of Damage to one opponent and smaller amounts to the rest. Being a large single hit up front rather than a DoT it can make better use of traps in general. Your argument that damage shouldnt go down as you rank up even when the very nature of the spells is fundamentally different makes very little sense. Using your logic Sirens is underpowered since it does less damage than leviathan. Your statement that fire isn't good in PvP is similarly incorrect. Fire and Myth are traditionally considered the top tier schools in PvP with Ice's ridiculous gear propelling them into either first or second tier.
That levy sirens deal is totally different. sirens has so much extra powers like accuracy and blades it would be unfair to make it higher. Give sun serpent an extra power and i would be satisfied.

Survivor
May 21, 2010
44
Fateskin, I have never heard one person in pvp say that they are scared of a fire wizard NEVER! Most people say that I should run away before losing points and then they say haha fire noob to easy. Fire is becoming or has become the worst school in pvp. I brought this up fateskin because you said fire and myth are the top and maybe ice with gear. Fire is now the worst school there is.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
cowstastegood on Dec 14, 2012 wrote:
That levy sirens deal is totally different. sirens has so much extra powers like accuracy and blades it would be unfair to make it higher. Give sun serpent an extra power and i would be satisfied.
My point exactly, there is no comparison between different types of spells, hence why using rain of fire as a comparison for sun serpent is completely irrelevant. Also, unlike the sirens/leviathan comparison, sun serpent does a higher base damage than Rain of Fire so claiming it needs an effect is incorrect even utilizing your flawed comparison criteria.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
crystal2020164 on Dec 17, 2012 wrote:
Fateskin, I have never heard one person in pvp say that they are scared of a fire wizard NEVER! Most people say that I should run away before losing points and then they say haha fire noob to easy. Fire is becoming or has become the worst school in pvp. I brought this up fateskin because you said fire and myth are the top and maybe ice with gear. Fire is now the worst school there is.
You simply havent been in or witnessed very many high ranked(commander/warlord lvl) PvP matches then. Fire was and is still one of the top 2 schools for 1v1 PvP.

Explorer
Jul 10, 2009
58
If the spell is such a problem to you, just don't use it. Stick with your old technique if it has worked for so long.

Explorer
Jul 23, 2012
80
Nicholas SandRunne... on Dec 20, 2012 wrote:
If the spell is such a problem to you, just don't use it. Stick with your old technique if it has worked for so long.
You dont understand. doing what you suggest is like every school is getting a new spell except fire.

Survivor
May 21, 2010
44
Fateskin,you were the one that brought RoF up in the first place so cows has a good reason to bring it up to

Survivor
May 13, 2010
3
Yes, it's not a lot but consider this. With enough set ups, you could kill another high level on the opposing team with the damage focus while destroying the lower levels with less focused damage but still enough to defeat those without shields or good resistance. I really suggest you don't complain. Fire is already very powerful with RoF with the ability to wipe out shields on all enemies. Your all good is you face a legion shield spamming ice. Storm Owl is good because it gives Storm a pure damage attack to one enemy. Life got handed a good one, a DoT. Balance gets a bad one this time around. Ra isn't too good either. But i really can't complain about chimera power nova(weakness) and hydra. Those are great, but we can't have everything every single time. RoF, Efreet. Now now fire, let's not get greedy.

Delver
Jul 21, 2009
225
No i have to say they have a good point and some bad points RoF was a dot damage not a single hit card sun serpent is not DOT but more of a AOE attack. They are nothing alike. On is dot and the other is AOE. Now to the next thing Storm as gotten to much in there spells in the past. storm owl is a single hit attack so by right it will have little more attack storm owl is like 1650 ? Ok lets go with that, Sun serpent is lets go with the high number 1000 now you have 300 a player has two mobs normally ok so that is a other 300 damage per mob adding to 600 now we are at 1600 damage output now if players join and you have 4 mobs you go to 300 x 4 your at 1200 add the 1000 to that 2200 card damage. making this the most highest hitting 88 spell in game. So i have to say us fires got one nice spell. Have a nice day.