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End of Azteca - Difficulty nerf, please?

AuthorMessage
Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Northlite on Nov 10, 2012 wrote:
Apparently there are not enough causal gamers out there to make it worth the wile to make a game for them.

I do know for me when I started I did enjoy that aspect of the game but it does turn into more of a challenge at one point then what I want to do and it starts in Celestia. I pushed it and did Avalon with my oldest wizard but won't ever do that again.

In the end I believe that KI did have one vision for the game in the beginning, family fun and all ages but as it progressed it became another.
I agree 100%. I also think KI listened to above average gamer and I believe that was a mistake.

On to my broken record...the game should be geared to the AVERAGE player. Those wanting challenge should make THEIR OWN challenge. Use lower level gear, your first school pet etc and there you go instant challenge for YOU. I don't believe KI should be responsible for providing a challenge for the uber player. They have a responsibility to make balanced game for the average player, IMO.

Of course if you have the BEST pet, gear and strategy the game is easy. That also makes you forgot what is like for those that don't. Those who don't struggle and quit.

KI still actively markets to the groups you mention. I see commercial after commercial featuring parents touting playing with their families and kids who appear around 10 years old. They don't appear or sound like hardcore gamers. Nope, they sound and look like casual family players. The commercials promote a fun, family game. IMO, later worlds are not that.

Unfortunately for KI no matter what they do we complain and now there is no going back. Megan

Survivor
Aug 11, 2011
18
I don't know about the rest of the players, but I like a new challenge. I remember dying a lot at first in Avalon, thinking that there is no way I can defeat a mob that each use a big spell (e.g., dragon/storm lord/forest lord) on the first turn. So I had to up my game - develop a pet/ craft gear with resistance; learn to manage my deck better (and better select treasure cards), rebuy some spell points to get different spells, etc.

For me, playing in Azteca is like PvP now, where you need to play each turn with a purpose and be prepared for a longer battle. And yes, there are some battles that are really hard to solo, but that has always been a part of the game. When I first started, I died dying dozens of times from Alcine Swiftarrow, in Firecat Alleybecause he had a single attack with damage that was greater than my health, so I had to figure out a better strategy.

Anyway, I am really enjoying it so far (although things are a little buggy - like missions where you are supposed to defeat 4 opponents, but you get credit after beating 2) and am glad to see the bosses getting smarter as well as more powerful because this game can get pretty repetitive (blade, blade, aura, attack).

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
anthony mistblade on Nov 13, 2012 wrote:
I totally agree with DaMurph. This is an mmo game. I am a lvl80 and i have finished avalon. The thing is in azteca, get some frinds along the way who are on the same quest and quest with them. In reality as well you ge tto a stage where you cannot do things alone. Three words - TEAMWORK WILL WIN
typically, its rare to find other people who are on the same quest as you. of course azteca just came out so it may not be that hard at the moment but in one or 2 months it sure will be. so questing with friends might not be such a good option, especially since friends you make online seem to not help as much the further you get in this game. Thats probally because everyone is busy trying to get the perfect pet and gear to make sure that the worlds are actually possible for there wizards.

Survivor
Aug 05, 2010
12
anthony mistblade on Nov 13, 2012 wrote:
I totally agree with DaMurph. This is an mmo game. I am a lvl80 and i have finished avalon. The thing is in azteca, get some frinds along the way who are on the same quest and quest with them. In reality as well you ge tto a stage where you cannot do things alone. Three words - TEAMWORK WILL WIN
Hi everybody, let me just start with all opinions i have heard so far are both great, whether they are right, wrong, negative, or positive. Now, I'm agree Azteca has certainly raised it's difficulty in the game. As a teenager, I don't really mind Azteca's difficulty. And suprisingly, I got halfway to level 90 in the test realm on Azteca without raging or having terrible battles or collection quests. Speaking of which, thank you for dropping the rate of collection quests KI. Anyways, Azteca is meant to be harder and more difficult because the max level isn't 50 anymore. It's 90. 90 is 10 away from 100, and Level 100 is KI's last level max as they said, and will likely come out in 2013 sometimes through the summer. Saying so, level 90 isn't just a walk in the park guys, it's supposed to be a challenge. Obviously, since it's a family/kids type of game, they might not understand what to do at first, but they should figure it out. So, my point is, I agree with DaMurph as well. Sometimes you can't just solo everything and be a pro, you have to accept help once in a while. Teamwork WILL win. As a normal player with several characters, I understand it may be hard for people with more than 2 characters to keep up. But go at your own pace, it's not a race according to me or KI. So go ahead and rage and flip the table, it doesn't matter, it just goes to show that maybe you're not ready yet. Azteca is supposed to be a challenge, so think about it before commenting, "Lower the difficulty please? It's too hard and i die all the time." My response would be, "They probably won't, so might as just try again, and never give up."

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
22
blackjackyagent on Nov 11, 2012 wrote:
So what I am hearing is guys want everything in life to be easy for you? seriously stop complaining and try to figure out how to win battles. I i would rather have a long hard world than an easy one you can breeze through like wind.
He's actually right guys. I am one of the younger players and i find this world not too hard so far.

Survivor
Mar 25, 2009
23
I am sad to read all this about Azteca as I have just arrived there. I love to play solo even though I have many friends. People are saying we HAVE to team up. Many have countered that it is hard to get a team and I think they are right. So many of my friends are not on when I am, or in different time zones or they are working on a different quest. We usually get together when we WANT to not because we HAVE to. I found Avalon pretty difficult to solo and the last part definitely required a team... But to team up all of the time? That adds "hassle" to the game rather than challenge. Now Azteca apparently is so much harder than Avalon that the best players are being ganked so often they are losing the love of the game? The real point here has been made clear-- We are still wearing WW gear 3 worlds later. My Storm is my most advanced character and she still has low health at level 80. I have even crafted gear that is awesome, and have jacked up pets as well. So I say, KI give us BETTER GEAR and HIGHER HEALTH so that we truly are what rank we have earned. I think then, Azteca will be a fun challenge and not the death march described by the 'hard core' players on this thread.

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
Grace Giver on Nov 15, 2012 wrote:
I am sad to read all this about Azteca as I have just arrived there. I love to play solo even though I have many friends. People are saying we HAVE to team up. Many have countered that it is hard to get a team and I think they are right. So many of my friends are not on when I am, or in different time zones or they are working on a different quest. We usually get together when we WANT to not because we HAVE to. I found Avalon pretty difficult to solo and the last part definitely required a team... But to team up all of the time? That adds "hassle" to the game rather than challenge. Now Azteca apparently is so much harder than Avalon that the best players are being ganked so often they are losing the love of the game? The real point here has been made clear-- We are still wearing WW gear 3 worlds later. My Storm is my most advanced character and she still has low health at level 80. I have even crafted gear that is awesome, and have jacked up pets as well. So I say, KI give us BETTER GEAR and HIGHER HEALTH so that we truly are what rank we have earned. I think then, Azteca will be a fun challenge and not the death march described by the 'hard core' players on this thread.
No need to fret, Im level 87 now and im still doing solo most of the time. But as I said it wouldn't hurt having random groups to quest with.

Explorer
Jul 16, 2012
62
SeffersTM on Nov 10, 2012 wrote:
Azteca is just ridiculous. This game is meant for KIDS. I don't think kids will understand how to defeat 7k health mobs that kill you on round one when the pros at this game are having massive issues as well. Azteca needs a major difficulty nerf, it's way too crazy. The fact that you can die at MOBS over and over is just ridonkulous. This game shouldn't be so hard you have to repeat a boss THIRTY times.. cmon KI, dont make Azteca so hard.
Are you insulting me?

Survivor
Feb 10, 2011
15
I would like to suggest a solution that will not require the level of difficulty to be completely nerfed throughout Azteca.

I believe that Azteca is more difficult for some schools than others, and this is largely due to the linear stat system that was implemented at level 1. With the appearance of damage enchantments at level 50+, it would make a lot of sense that the stats would have been adjusted after level 50+ to concide with the new spells and gameplay.

For example, Storm used to be around 50%-55% more base damage than Ice (for equal-pip spells). WIth damage enchantments, Storm is now only 31%-39% more damage than Ice, but a corresponding increase in stats (such as health) has not been made. When you also take into account the stronger iceblade and bubble, Storm attacks at top level are now only 13%-19% more damage than Ice!

My hope is that KI looks at the results of players questing through Azteca by school, and if they find that some schools are having more difficulty than others (as I suspect), appropriate adjustments are made to base stats going back to level 50 and up. I would like to see the growing gap between Ice and Storm reduced so all schools are playing on more equal footing.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
So far I am in the early stages of Azteca and I am loving this world. The difficulty is challenging enough to keep me engaged and actually requires preplanning. The monsters use shields, they don't necessarily waste time, I am being hit by efreets and rain of fire on round one. I find it great fun. On the other hand as an avid pvper I am a player with arguably the best gear/pet available for my school/level. I carry the full crafted avalon gear with a spritely, unicorn, defy, proof and(unfortunately) health gift pet. I can vary wands between one of my hoard pack wands and wyrd oak staff and I have various crafted athame/ring sets.

Still this world is a challenge for me and from what I have seen from friends on central it is extremely challenging to even top level players at the end phases. Once upon a time I would agree with gearing the game towards hardcore players like myself but after questing a bit with mom2mykidz in avalon(who enjoys PvE as much as I enjoy(ed) PvP, I was exposed to how the average player struggles in this game. Joining random mob fights with average players the discrepancy is clear. Wheras my pet would be casting 175 per turn sprites and i would be taking decreased damage from mob hits due to block/resist, the average player would be reduced to well below half health very early on and this was in Avalon! I fear very much for these players when they approach Azteca.

Even at lvl 82 I am noticing that more and more players are questing together, not neccesarily of choice but of necessity. While some may argue that this is a great way to foster friendships(and it well may be) I don't believe the game should force players to quest together. I am not supportive of a general game nerf but of a general gear boost. Have reasonable gear be dropped by mobs so that players can at least compete.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 16, 2012 wrote:
So far I am in the early stages of Azteca and I am loving this world. The difficulty is challenging enough to keep me engaged and actually requires preplanning. The monsters use shields, they don't necessarily waste time, I am being hit by efreets and rain of fire on round one. I find it great fun. On the other hand as an avid pvper I am a player with arguably the best gear/pet available for my school/level. I carry the full crafted avalon gear with a spritely, unicorn, defy, proof and(unfortunately) health gift pet. I can vary wands between one of my hoard pack wands and wyrd oak staff and I have various crafted athame/ring sets.

Still this world is a challenge for me and from what I have seen from friends on central it is extremely challenging to even top level players at the end phases. Once upon a time I would agree with gearing the game towards hardcore players like myself but after questing a bit with mom2mykidz in avalon(who enjoys PvE as much as I enjoy(ed) PvP, I was exposed to how the average player struggles in this game. Joining random mob fights with average players the discrepancy is clear. Wheras my pet would be casting 175 per turn sprites and i would be taking decreased damage from mob hits due to block/resist, the average player would be reduced to well below half health very early on and this was in Avalon! I fear very much for these players when they approach Azteca.

Even at lvl 82 I am noticing that more and more players are questing together, not neccesarily of choice but of necessity. While some may argue that this is a great way to foster friendships(and it well may be) I don't believe the game should force players to quest together. I am not supportive of a general game nerf but of a general gear boost. Have reasonable gear be dropped by mobs so that players can at least compete.
Thanks my friend for posting. After going round and round on the boards (hehe two stubborn people), we started questing together. We learned a lot from each other and a great friendship was born.

FatesKin is an amazing player. Playing together was eye opening to me. It made plain why there is such a divide between PvP players and players like me. As FatesKin says gear and pets can be vastly different, not to mention playing styles. I witnessed the differences FatesKin speaks about while we played.

FatesKin sums up what is worrying me, as do many of the others. I know these folks. They are all top notch players. They are struggling. That does not bode well for me. I think I shall sit this one out. This is not the game I fell in love with anymore. I am at a place in my life where I play games to relax. Stress is to deep in my life to play a world/game that heaps on more.

I am lucky. I could ask to play through with many posting on this thread. They would get me through it. Others don't have that or prefer to play alone. What about them? Megan

Explorer
Mar 25, 2009
59
So far, I'm in three points... but what I think is that yeah, AZ is hard, but Av was nearly impossible for me (I'm storm.) and I still made it. I love Azteca how it is right now, but I really think that if anything needs to be changed, it's that we need crafting gear like Carax Strongthread's Wintertusk gear. I like having the extra buffs, but I have how i have barely any resist and critical.

Survivor
May 07, 2011
4
I'm actually love the difficulty and the cheating boss in this new world.

What I do NOT like is that the gear is just not cathcing up at all. I get that you should have a pet that has good talents that gives boost, but again that takes a fortune or a lot of time to get all those necessary snacks that you need. I got three gardens with a mix of kp and emp with one or two other plants, which i've had since the release of avalon. I still dont have enough amber to craft the spells. When I start focusing on training my pet it takes several pets and training rounds to manifiest a talent. Well there goes my snacks.
I can craft some gear to get some boost, but it's just not enough in my mind.

I wouldn't mind of they did the crafting spells a lot harder to craft but again the power of the gear will give me something to work for. Just like they did in WT. I loved the gear from WT and I crafted almost all of them for my other characters.

I allready changed my tactics in combats so that was very effective KI! But I cant do much when it comes to the gear. I really dislike loosing some stuff like global resist or power pip chance to might get a better block rate.

Where I come from I can't buy all the packs that are sold in US/UK etc, so allready there I get a disadvantage compared to my fellow gamers. I know I can buy that very excepencieve pack online but again money doesn't grow on trees where I come from.

KI Please add the person responsible for gear pre Savannah: crafted wt gear, cl, waterworks, tower of helpehant back in the position to make up new gear that can amaze us gamers.

I know that you have your earnings from crown shop but with 20 mill gamers you can afford to throw some good gear at us,

It's just embarrasing seeing people running around in their waterworks gear that was made for legendaries when they're lvl 90.

Survivor
Jul 21, 2011
1
I am not high enough for this world, but readying everything said here, i just wanna put this out,
Im friends with many others, and i do almost everything with them, now this will work if your a good friend so, try it with friends, at least 1 high level person if you want, hope this helps, but i havent gotten there so if im wrong don't yell at me plz

Survivor
Jun 04, 2012
3
I like a challenge I don't see a problem with it. This is a game that you are SUPPOSE to play with other players. You want to solo then play a solo RPG. I do not want this to be easy so in 3 weeks I get finished and and twiddle my thumbs saying ok now what?

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
ok so if some of you have been reading all the post you would notice some people are starting to see the source of our problems. is not so much the difficulty of the world but our stats! btw can someone tell me how getting a spell thats suppost to help us through azteca at level 88 makes sense?now the main reason our stats are so underpowered is because of the gear thats been coming out since zafaria. while everyone may be suffering from this(maybe not ice with there super resist gear)there are 2 schools that are getting hit the hardest thanks to the lack of good gear, fire and storm. anyone who wears ww gear and doesnt switch is not gonna have a health increase with the new gear, and considering the mobs can use our rank 10 spells the first turn well, 3600 health only last so long(storms is even lower). now SOME people make call anyone who doesnt switch from ww gear ignorant. well ive talked to some and they are wont except the fact that there leaving there wizards in the hands of luck for every battle. not only that but what good is block without resist to keep you alive while your trying to critical normal mobs who now have avalon boss block. if thats not ignorant i dont know what is.

the gear is the problem not so much the difficulty of the world. the source of our problem is KI and its gear programer. sorry buts its just the truth.

Survivor
Dec 26, 2011
1
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 16, 2012 wrote:
So far I am in the early stages of Azteca and I am loving this world. The difficulty is challenging enough to keep me engaged and actually requires preplanning. The monsters use shields, they don't necessarily waste time, I am being hit by efreets and rain of fire on round one. I find it great fun. On the other hand as an avid pvper I am a player with arguably the best gear/pet available for my school/level. I carry the full crafted avalon gear with a spritely, unicorn, defy, proof and(unfortunately) health gift pet. I can vary wands between one of my hoard pack wands and wyrd oak staff and I have various crafted athame/ring sets.

Still this world is a challenge for me and from what I have seen from friends on central it is extremely challenging to even top level players at the end phases. Once upon a time I would agree with gearing the game towards hardcore players like myself but after questing a bit with mom2mykidz in avalon(who enjoys PvE as much as I enjoy(ed) PvP, I was exposed to how the average player struggles in this game. Joining random mob fights with average players the discrepancy is clear. Wheras my pet would be casting 175 per turn sprites and i would be taking decreased damage from mob hits due to block/resist, the average player would be reduced to well below half health very early on and this was in Avalon! I fear very much for these players when they approach Azteca.

Even at lvl 82 I am noticing that more and more players are questing together, not neccesarily of choice but of necessity. While some may argue that this is a great way to foster friendships(and it well may be) I don't believe the game should force players to quest together. I am not supportive of a general game nerf but of a general gear boost. Have reasonable gear be dropped by mobs so that players can at least compete.
A well written point Fateskin. I know I gave you major argument and totally disagreed with you regarding the average/casual player in the new world Azteca. Although, I much rather it stay the way it is because I am an advanced player who loves a challege and work hard to get the best gears and pets but, at the same time, I feel sympathy for those who just want to enjoy the moment and not have to pull thier hair out through frustation of battles and having to craft for what it seems now to be required in order to get through certain quests.

I was one of those players starting off and I got really upset regarding the game especially in pvp, where I couldn't beat a storm or fire wizard no matter if I went first. BUT, I read more upon the game and started to challenge myself to do the crafting and gardening quest to be amongst the best of the best and that in it self made the game most enjoyable to me. However, after lastnight (and you know what I am talking about lol), I do believe something like special drops of gear, pets, wands, weapons should be geared toward the younger crowd and the casual gamers. Kay :)

Geographer
Feb 19, 2010
939
Katherine Light on Nov 10, 2012 wrote:
I've been playing this game since before the release of Celestia and, while I don't intend this as a brag, have accomplished a lot in it. I've solo'ed literally every fight in the game, WW, GA and TotH included, and am what most people would think of as a 'hardcore' player, though I don't necessarily see myself that way. From that perspective - even I think the end of Azteca is insane. Every fight feels like a cheat boss fight, PARTICULARLY on my storm wizard. The mobs have more than twice your health, constantly steal your pips and your blades, etc. In many cases, my storm (who has great no auction/crafted gear, a fantastic pet, and excellent block) has been dead by the end of the first or second turn, in a simple mob fight.

I have seen a number of people make it through the end of Azteca. In conversation with them, almost all of them have been playing with a full group of 4 at all time, life wizard included. Or far more commonly, they've been buying henchmen in every single fight. It's possible to get through without those things (I've done it) - but it's not enjoyable. I don't think it's fair to force the players to buy henchmen if they want to get through on their own, or with just one friend. I can't count how many times I've died, and simply put, that's not something that's really ever happened to me before.

Once the "free Crowns for henchmen!" wears off, and people are no longer spread out over only 4 servers for easy full groups (or if they just want some peace and privacy), I fear that this difficulty level will prove WAAAAY over the top for all but the most hard core players. Questing at the tail end of this world (specifically from Alto Alto forward) is not enjoyable, it's a back-breaking chore. Many people I knew simply thought they weren't good enough players, threw up their hands, and decided to give up on test because it wasn't fun anymore. Some said "maybe I'll push through it when it goes live." These are people who are normally enthusiastically ploughing through test content. I'm talking about people who have blogs and fansites devoted to this game. If this is their reaction... what will happen to the average player?

TL;DR - I know you want to give us a challenge, but you went a bit too far. This isn't fun, it's obnoxious. Please dial it back, or I fear your average player base may rage quit.
Yes it is difficult but not impossible. I find it very hard to believe you soloed ToTh and cant get through azteca mob fights. You may want to rethink strategy here, Your not in kansas anymore dorothy.

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
711
Azteca is all about defensive strategy. Think shields, shields, shields, and more shields. My life wizard is soloing Azteca and, yes, it is definitely a challenge. But it's not an unenjoyable challenge for me; I take it as a chance to push my skills, to focus on a deck construction, and to generally improve my gameplay.

Did I mention shields :)

Hit me up for help, if you like :)

Warmest regards,

Iridian

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
lastdaysgunslinger on Nov 21, 2012 wrote:
Yes it is difficult but not impossible. I find it very hard to believe you soloed ToTh and cant get through azteca mob fights. You may want to rethink strategy here, Your not in kansas anymore dorothy.
Your post begs me to ask two questions. I know the answers before I ask.
#1 Do you know the OP?
#2 Have you played with OP?

The OP is prolific guide writer on Central and a member of M4H. M4H (Mercenaries 4 Hire) is a group on Central that takes folks thru difficult instances. She is more than capable.

In the future you might want to not post snarky attacks against people you don't know. It tends to make one have egg on their face.

Explorer
Feb 22, 2011
79
nullSigh. She did solo TotH and wrote most of the Difficult Instance Guides that are used in W101 Central. Do a little research and you will figure it out.

She was not saying it is impossible. This was meant as a plea to KI to please take into consideration the needs of the casual gamer that she helps. She wrote this before the test realm closed, hoping that feedback would help KI, much like it did in Pirate101.

It worries me that it changes the makeup of the community. It is marketed as a game for family entertainment and is moving away from that. Please KI, stop and think about your intended audience.

Survivor
Sep 19, 2009
5
For me the difficulty started in Celestia. In Zafaria a little harder. In Avalon though I was happy that it was way easier. But when I got to Azteca it was like they added Celestia's and Zafaria's difficulty together. Is this some kind of cruel joke?! I'm not gonna lie I dont like much of a challenge, but I suck at Azteca. If I ever get past Azteca (and I think this goes for most players) this next world better be easy or I'm pretty sure a lot of players are gonna just stop playing Wizard101.

Jacob LifeGiver and Tyler Goldenstalker signing off

Survivor
Apr 09, 2011
45
I am currently between pitch Black lake and floating mountains. for a well experienced player the game is challenging. for the casual player it is not. Actually this is the first time i have seen players getting defeated in mob fights. A lot of players were so intimidated by Avalon they told me they will not be doing the next world (which would be Azteca.). that was like only one or two players. The difficulty in this game is harder. especially the double boss fights. most players in the game solo because they have to not because they want to. they spend days or even weeks and a lot quit the game as they get bored with not being able to advance.

and i pretty much agree with Spankert342 this difficulty level will destroy W101 or the very least cause a vast majority of people to stop subscriptions.

Survivor
Jul 27, 2011
17
I think Azteca is okay. I love to relax and play on the game, but I would like a game that's still hard. Everyone wants to relax, and I'm with you, but if the game was too easy, it would get boring. Fast. Yes, some bosses are hard and tough, but if they only had 1,000 health in Azteca, it wouldn't be fun. I personaly, only play harder games that you actual have to think about then breeze through. It is hard, but with teamwork, you can win.
Peace Out,
Kristen Owleyes


Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
lightdragonofW101 on Nov 24, 2012 wrote:
I am currently between pitch Black lake and floating mountains. for a well experienced player the game is challenging. for the casual player it is not. Actually this is the first time i have seen players getting defeated in mob fights. A lot of players were so intimidated by Avalon they told me they will not be doing the next world (which would be Azteca.). that was like only one or two players. The difficulty in this game is harder. especially the double boss fights. most players in the game solo because they have to not because they want to. they spend days or even weeks and a lot quit the game as they get bored with not being able to advance.

and i pretty much agree with Spankert342 this difficulty level will destroy W101 or the very least cause a vast majority of people to stop subscriptions.
I took one wizard though Avalon to help a family member who insisted we had to do it "just because it's there". I won't be doing it again or will I fight at all in Azteca.

I am not a Hardcore gamers and altho I can figure it out to do that type of play it's not really what I prefer at all.

After taking the Life wizard she has completed Avalon with into Azteca she was defeated 3x's in a row by the first quest mob fight and gave up and is sure she can not play her Life wizard there so wants to finish the last dungeons in Avalon with her Storm which she did pretty much find others to quest with now and then to complete up until there, she has been weeks on and off with no one there to help her complete it.

I did have her port to me in the beginning area of Azteca and she was able to solo the first mob fight with the storm wizard so we will help her with the Pendragon so she will be able to enter there on her own.

Anyone planning on doing this world needs to do it while it is new, after a month or so the crowd will be gone and the stragglers will not complete it on their own unless they really know how to play their school.