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are fizzles fair?

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Feb 27, 2009
14
hi i just wanted your opinion on if fizzles are good or bad during a duel. i noticed that in my battles, my cards fizzle and it bothers me. but its also good because tha enemy also gets their cards fizzled. :D so thats my opinion! right back plz!

Defender
Aug 19, 2008
193
Look at fizzles like hits in a baseball game. If every single player hit a home run every time they went to bat...it would be so boring no one would watch!

Explorer
Sep 02, 2008
73
I think as a wizard goes up in levels his chances for fizzles should decrease. However, KI answer to this is to buy/find gear that decreases your chances of fizzling. But as a pryo Grandmaster it still bothers me whenever I fizzle. In my opinioin, as a Grandmaster my succesful casting percent for my fire spells should be around 98%.

Dustin Dragonflame

Survivor
Feb 27, 2009
14
Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Is it "fair" that a bishop can only move diagonally? Is it "fair" that a safety gets your team two points and the ball? The question doesn't entirely make sense to ask. The nearest to a coherent answer that the question can yield is to say, yes, fizzle rules apply equally to all sides, and are therefore fair.

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
33
Quizzical wrote:
Is it "fair" that a bishop can only move diagonally? Is it "fair" that a safety gets your team two points and the ball? The question doesn't entirely make sense to ask. The nearest to a coherent answer that the question can yield is to say, yes, fizzle rules apply equally to all sides, and are therefore fair.
I gotta agree with you on this man. Fizzles are fair because they prevent constant and instant victory. In other words, If wild bolt (yes this is a spell and a VERY powerful one) had the same acurracy as imp, then what fun would the game be? I mean no fizzles would make the game a mad dash for who gets the most pips faster. BORING! KI knows what they're doing when it comes to fizzles. That's my oppinion (sorry if i mispelled).
Fred Angleblade level 42 life wizard (go life!)

Explorer
Mar 14, 2009
88
my fire spells always fizzle , my ice spells always work and my storm spells sometimes work

Survivor
Apr 03, 2009
1
Fizzles are fair. You will notice that the damage scales inversely with the success percentages. Lightning spells do more damage but have a greater chance of a fizzle. That is good.

I have to say, without fizzles a ton of the anticipation and excitement would go right out of the game. Sure things are rather boring, don't you think?


Explorer
Feb 07, 2009
85
i agree with quizzalcle and I think you are one of the bext people that can help you. Can we meet in the game i think wu would be nice may 15 or somthing around 3:00 in the Arena. P. S. time

thx i am alex wildbeaker
Fire wizard has red on lvl 42

Survivor
Apr 30, 2009
2
There is nothing better then when I'm fighting a duo of boss mobs and they both fizzle.

Two against one is unfair as well.

Survivor
Mar 14, 2009
1
I Don't Think that they are fair, because when I do REALLY good spells, They Fizzle!


P.S. I am Balance level 22, but close to 23.

Survivor
Mar 14, 2009
47
Hello everyone who thinks fizzling is unfair,

Fizzling is very fair because if storm had say a 90% chance success rate they would win almost every battle because storm cards do the most damage.
KI solves this problem by adjusting success rates for every school by how they think its fair and the amount of damage each card would normally do without buffs or debuffs

On the other hand life has a 90% chance success rate because life cards do less damage and most of life cards are defensive.

Alex Shade


A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
Those wizards with low accuracy have other advantages. So let us take a typical storm. S/he doesn't look for damage boosters as they have damage oozing out of the spells already, but for accuracy boosters. By the time you hit Krok, besides the accuracy spell the school gets, you should have 5-7% accuracy mods, and by Marley, 10% in boosters....

70% + 10% (spell) + 10% (items) = good casting chance.

Any if you have a balance friend, or a life friend, they can boost you another 10%.


Survivor
Mar 02, 2009
2
I have been silent for about three weeks hoping that the powers that be might correct this behind the scenes before it became painfully apparent to EVERYONE that there is a major flaw in the calculation of fizzle rates.

I don't know what most of you know of percentages, but the fizzle rate is OBVIOUSLY calculating incorrectly. I have been tracking my fizzle rate, and time and time again it is far beyond the failure rate listed on the card.

Now, before anyone asks, with my most recent character (with a balance primary circle) there is an eighty five percent chance of 'success' for the cast of each spell in question. I have no items equipped that lower this percentage, and yet, in Mooshu those supposedly '85%' chance of success spells fail nearly every other cast. More often they fail 2 out of every 3 casts.

This is not just 'sometimes'. These are consecutive battles time and time again. Judgement, and Spectral Blast which both have an 85% chance of success, fail EVERY other cast. This is NOT 85% This would be 50% at best!

I would GLADLY entertain any GM's wishes to come and view this as the simple truth. The fizzle rates have been hosed since an update from about three weeks ago.

This is not simply 'bad luck'. I have three character on which I play and this abnormal fizzle rate remains true on each one though in some instances to a slightly lesser degree. Still though, they remain FAR from the listed percentages on the cards/spells in question.

This is not your imagination. The fizzle rate is incorrect and incredibly flawed. Either the system needs to be corrected, or the percentage of success rates need to be adjusted on the cards.

Don't take my word for it, do the math and experiment on your own.

If you have a spell that has a 70% chance of success, it should fail approximately every third cast. That is (2 successfull casts for every 3!) What you will most likely find is that it fails 2 out of 3 casts, which is a 30% chance of success. This is FAR from the 70% chance of success listed on the card.

For spells with an 85% chance of success, it should fail approximately every 5th cast. This is of course not to say that it won't fail the first time and then be successful the next four. In my experience however it fails AT LEAST every other cast.

I don't mind a fizzle rate, what I do mind is being essentially lied to. If the failure rate on a spell is 50% then put it on the card as such. Don't misconstrue the truth with the catch all phrase 'well you must just be having bad luck'.

There will also be those that may say that 'well over time it evens out'. I'm sorry to contradict you, but I have tracked a hundred casts of each instance (on several occasions), and it STILL works out to a 50% chance of success.

Bad luck is one thing, a statistic impossibility (which is the case here) is absolutely ridiculous.

With all of the many wonderful things that have been coming through, I can't comprehend why they would allow such a detriment to game play to continue. I have spoken with DOZENS of people and everyone agrees something 'just isn't right'.

Some of us 'old folks' (me being 37) know the difference between right and wrong, and how to calculate the odds. The younger generation is a lot brighter than it used to be and I am sure are just as well equipped to run the numbers and see the truth in this matter.

This needs FIXED!

Explorer
Jan 06, 2009
88
Anathema, there could be a level of randomness built into the game to keep us guessing. I play Toontown in addition to w101 and that game definitely has randomness built in. There are success rates for gags like there are with spells, but you can get hit with deliberate randomness that changes all that. It keeps the game unpredictable and keeps people from beating the game by using a few equations.

OTOH, maybe we look at the rates the wrong way. In another trhead someone mentioned the rates are calculated this way: every time you cast a spell, your success rate is based on that one time. Like, you have a 70% chance of that spell hitting. Once the spell has been cast or fizzles, the percentages reset and you're back to the same 70% chance of success. So, it isn't success 70% of the time you play, but a 70% chance it will work each time the card is played.

Hope that makes sense. That's how I undertood it.

Survivor
Jan 08, 2009
5
I think that fizzles are an awesome idea. I think it makes fair since opponents fizzle also. I just think that it is ridiculous when it starts happening like four or more times in a row.

Survivor
May 16, 2009
5
While fizzles certainly make me groan, I think that they are a good way to implement random chance into the game. Add that to the random draw that you have getting cards from your deck and you've got a fair system that addresses what almost all other RPG games do with attack values and defense values.

Combine the random aspect with the ability to improve gear which affects your fizzle chance, and that allows you to improve beyond the standard if you work hard and make good choices. It *would* be nice to see some level dependent affect on those fizzle rates, but I think it's good. You also have a good amount of spells that are 100% They don't do much damage, but you can always count on them to go off, and they are also augmented by gear.

I think it's good that most spells have a much better than 50% chance to hit right off the bat, too, and when you bring resistance and damage increases from gear, again, a few smart choices, some back-up gear, and the ability to customize your deck at ANY time out of combat, you can work the system (not exploit it) to maximize your advantages.

If my 4 year-old can figure out the basics (yes, he plays on his own with me in the room) then this system is very well balanced!

Survivor
Jul 19, 2008
25
Well the good stuff is it won't waste your PIPS
But the bad news is it will waste your MANA

Defender
Dec 31, 2008
169
Anathema, have you made a bug report? There are several people complaining of a higher fizzle rate, but there are also plenty of people (including adults who understand odds) whose wizards are definitely not affected. I expect KI can't find the problem without specific info about the wizards that are affected. Prof. Greyrose said in another thread that their QA department is not seeing a higher fizzle rate. I think we need to give them some specific scenario where they are likely to see it--such as a wizard like yours, outfitted with gear like yours, fighting in the same locations where you saw the problem. If you have made a bug report, would you consider adding that level of detail to it? Or submitting those details in a report if you haven't already? If you have notes you took while fighting on what spells you used and which ones fizzled, that will make it even more likely they can recreate the problem, which they pretty much have to do in order to fix it. That could make a huge difference for those whose wizards are seeing too-high fizzle rates.

Explorer
Jun 24, 2008
56
It depends on how you think of them. It's bad because you loose a chance to gain an advantage, it's good because you don't waste pip on loww ranked spells.

Survivor
May 11, 2009
1
Survivor
May 14, 2009
23
HIS9 wrote:
I Don't Think that they are fair, because when I do REALLY good spells, They Fizzle!


P.S. I am Balance level 22, but close to 23.


im balance too, but 9 and close 2 10. i hate fizzles. i always fizzle during scorpion or lightning bats , though its good that if treasure cards fizzle they go back to your deck and dont get deleted of course i never really use treasure cards anyway=)

Survivor
May 23, 2009
33
Well, if you would want fizzling gone, then, yes, it would be easier to take out your opponents, and your opponents could take you out easier too. So why argue with it? But I get your point, my Heck Hound spell sometimes fizzles when I have it in my hand, and I have used Fire Trap on the enemy, and have a bunch of pips and Fireblade all ready, and it fizzles! At least make the card show up in your hand after it fizzles!


Ryan DragonSword,
Initiate Pyromancer

Survivor
Jan 27, 2009
1
fizzles are usually bad in battles but a great during certian times. you can fizzle in the middle of a battle then get a card that is better the next turn and kill the dude. FIZZLING IS NOT THAT BAD, people just exadurate it. DONT THINK THE GAME IS OVER CAUSE YOU FIZZLED its not that bad. :)

Survivor
Mar 28, 2009
8
YES! I'm someone who likes to stick to the things happening nowaday so in real life if you hit someone it may miss. I'm really happy :Dif something fizzles! (even if it's my spell)