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Unifying the Playerbase and Encouraging PvP Play

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Sep 16, 2011
29
Hey everyone, this will be my first time writing on the message boards so pardon me if i post this in the wrong place. Anyways, I've been playing Wizard101 for a very long time. I've had this account since around 2011 and used to play on a different account pre-Celestia. I grew up loving this game and I really find it unfortunate with the current state of the PvP and PvE communities. In the past 4 or so years I've seen how much of the hardcore playerbase which mainly resides within the PvP community have expressed their opinions on the 'state of the game'. Many people have said that Wizard101 is a "dying game" over the years. My opinion, however, is that Wizard101 isn't dying but rather the PvP community is dying. As stated before, most of the hardcore players reside in the PvP community as a way to test their skills and utilize the gear that they worked hard and spent a tiresome amount of time for. The problem here is that there isn't really a reward for continuing to do PvP, especially at max level. And even with the daily ranked rewards, it just doesn't seem entirely worth it all the time like it should be. Many people have left the PvP community and the game entirely due to this flaw. In my eyes, PvP should be encouraged in order to achieve more and bolster the endgame. For example, what if, in addition to the current daily rewards there are bonus rewards for reaching each rank (i.e. Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Veteran, etc.) providing rewards ranging from low tier like sandstone to something high tier like crowns. Of course this would be tiered accordingly (i.e. Private=sandstone, Warlord=crowns). An additional daily reward system which one can only unlock at around 1300 rank and must maintain that rank would be fantastic for providing more reasons to play PvP. For the new daily reward system, there would be a loot pool of rare reagents, snacks, treasure cards, and even crowns that should drop at around 100 each time and with the reward being a random roll. These improvements alone could motivate both halves of the playerbase to mesh together and would also provide an additional reason to continue playing and supporting the game. The idea could also be applied to badges in order for a better reward and to encourage people to grind the PvE half of the game as well. Weekly PvP quests could also be implemented for a much more challenging grind and provide greater and more static rewards than the daily rewards. This would also allow crowns to be more available in-game for free at the cost of time and effort. An additional idea I have in order to encourage PvP play is to disable text and open chat for all players while in the arena/watching a match. This is just a suggestion due to the PvP community being labled as toxic by both people within and outside the community. If people can't talk trash while in the arena or at a match, there'd be less of a likelihood for players to feel discouraged by PvP in general. Right now, the arena feels empty.

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
177
Talking trash is a part of being competitive. I have far more problems with losing a match because a wizard combos Burning Rampage => Black Mantle => Scorching Scimitars from first than I have with some random guy using the
'These enemies are easy, no need for strategy here' Menu Chat. Or those pathetic Angel Jades with heal spam and max heal boost healing for 1k Satyrs even under Doom. Because honestly, there really isn't a need for strategy at the moment. You go first, get a shadow pip, use a 4-pip 2.3k damage spell, rinse and repeat. You go second, flee the duel.

PvP should be encouraged, and the way that happens is by balancing the game. PVE is extremely balanced; there is no reason why KI can't do the same for PVP. As a Captain, constantly being paired versus Warlords with 1000+ rank is tiring. I win sometimes, but without a perfect pet it's difficult.

I like the idea of more meaningful daily rewards, but nobody is reaching 1300+ rank unless they're extremely hardcore. I was on the leaderboards in the third age, and I was at 1281 rank. For a game as unbalanced as this one, putting that high of a barrier for a daily Ranked reward will only benefit the people who are already there.

The Arena feels empty because it is. Not only do you have to have the perfect get and perfect gear, crafting even a single Polished Piercing Jewel is ridiculously hard and so you usually will decide to pay for them via the packs, which means spending even more money. Same for gardening Mega Snacks for your pet.

The barrier for entry at Exalted+ is just too high for any not-hardcore player. And then you have the lower levels abusing the Glendemmings gear. If I'm going to spend 70 dollars on a game (Energy Gear, Pierce Jewels) just to be relevant in PVP (not even to excel), I'm going to make sure it's worth my time. And right now for many people, it just isn't.

Would be nice if someone actually working at KI balance responds to one of these threads concerning the state of PVP.

Survivor
Sep 16, 2011
29
Exabytes on Dec 15, 2018 wrote:
Talking trash is a part of being competitive. I have far more problems with losing a match because a wizard combos Burning Rampage => Black Mantle => Scorching Scimitars from first than I have with some random guy using the
'These enemies are easy, no need for strategy here' Menu Chat. Or those pathetic Angel Jades with heal spam and max heal boost healing for 1k Satyrs even under Doom. Because honestly, there really isn't a need for strategy at the moment. You go first, get a shadow pip, use a 4-pip 2.3k damage spell, rinse and repeat. You go second, flee the duel.

PvP should be encouraged, and the way that happens is by balancing the game. PVE is extremely balanced; there is no reason why KI can't do the same for PVP. As a Captain, constantly being paired versus Warlords with 1000+ rank is tiring. I win sometimes, but without a perfect pet it's difficult.

I like the idea of more meaningful daily rewards, but nobody is reaching 1300+ rank unless they're extremely hardcore. I was on the leaderboards in the third age, and I was at 1281 rank. For a game as unbalanced as this one, putting that high of a barrier for a daily Ranked reward will only benefit the people who are already there.

The Arena feels empty because it is. Not only do you have to have the perfect get and perfect gear, crafting even a single Polished Piercing Jewel is ridiculously hard and so you usually will decide to pay for them via the packs, which means spending even more money. Same for gardening Mega Snacks for your pet.

The barrier for entry at Exalted+ is just too high for any not-hardcore player. And then you have the lower levels abusing the Glendemmings gear. If I'm going to spend 70 dollars on a game (Energy Gear, Pierce Jewels) just to be relevant in PVP (not even to excel), I'm going to make sure it's worth my time. And right now for many people, it just isn't.

Would be nice if someone actually working at KI balance responds to one of these threads concerning the state of PVP.
Honestly I don't think balancing out PvP at this present moment is going to attract more people, rather just appease the people who already play PvP. Unfortunately, my suggestion isn't to cater to the players who already play PvP, but rather to encourage PvE players to have a reason to do PvP. As of right now, frankly, there is literally no reason to grind PvP. The 1300 rank that I suggested was just that, a suggestion, in order to present a challenge. I am mostly encouraging max level PvP since encouraging lower level PvP, like it's encouraged right now, isn't a very good business model due to players spending less and less time spending time on the game. Which, results in lower numbers in both players and revenue for Kingsisle. Keep in mind that Kingsisle is a business and they can't just give consumers everything they ask for since it might not be beneficial to keep the game running or it just might not be possible at that time. And on the note of certain items being difficult to get, I wholeheartedly agree. These items could possibly get easier to obtain by adding a new currency other than gold, crowns, or tickets, that would only be obtainable from daily/weekly rewards. Add in a new vendor to spend this currency at and have harder to grind for items be available to redeem for the truly dedicated playerbase. Also keep in mind that this thread isn't mainly focused on the 'state of PvP', but rather the 'state of the community'. Being competitive is definitely good, yes, but there's a difference between talking trash and taunting the opponent. Players should NOT be outrageously disrespectful to others in a Family Friendly game like how people are now. There's a reason why in a game like Fortnite (pardon this analogy) you can't talk trash to players that just eliminated you over the mic. That would basically encourage toxicity to those people who don't know any better. I agree that the matchmaking system needs tweaking. But, what's the point of PvP without players?

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2342
I think people need to realize that while people may consider PvP as the endgame, there are tons of people who do not want to PvP. We don't need it, we dont want it, and wont do it. We're not saying it shouldn't be available, but PvP is NOT for everybody, and I can speak for myself in saying that not only do I not do it, there is no reward for it. A badge? Big deal. New gear? who cares, it cant be used outside of pvp. New pets/mounts? I really dont care as I can hatch for the pets I want. The rewards for grinding out yet another thing isnt worth it. There is so much to grind out; gear, jewels, packs, pets, snacks, etc, that it's just not worth it. Plus, I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend every month on the newest and best gear. People say PvP is "what you do when you've completed the game", and what people dont really understand is that isnt true. Let's change that statement to reflect the truth of W101; GRINDING is the endgame. Farming for that elusive thing that you want. PVP is grinding just like getting that elusive darkmoor/borealis/waterworks/aquila/etc gear or the various ingredients for the seed/gear vaults or for mastery amulets or for the perfect pet or for the best seeds. It's all the same slog, it's just your goal that changes. If you LIKE PVP, keep doing it, but PVP is NOT the savior of the game people think it is. PVP has been elevated to mystical status because people want it to mean something.... they want it to be treated as PVE in that they want the content to continue, but all it is, is simply another thing to slog for, and many people dont play this game to see how they fair against real people. They come for the story of the game, not to see how they can pwn the noobs. Agree with me, disagree with me, that's no problem, but let;s not make pvp out to be this grand mystical savior of anything. Let's call it what it is, another slog, and an ego boost, nothing more.

Explorer
Feb 19, 2010
89
my opinion is
KI should make a new Podium for Overlords aka Warlords with 1001 points and above. I also am tired of trying to rank and get discouraged facing a Warlord with 1100 or above. What do they have to lose, 16 points and still a Warlord, I lose 16 points and go back to captain or less.
RANKING means you are going up in rank, Overlords are NOT going up in rank.
They need a separate Podium, Battle of the Fittest. This will allow those of us a better chance to Rank up.
I think this will bring new players into the arena. Maybe the Overlords are tired of not having a challenge with lower rank wizards and that is why they do not play. This will give the Overlords a Challenge and allow the ranking wizards to be encouraged to PVP more.

ALSO, what do you do with all those arena tickets after you have everything. Maybe buy crowns with them
Maybe like 20 arena tickets for 1 crown or 100 tickets for 5 crowns. I have 23,000 arena tickets from tournaments, so that would be like 1,150 crowns ($1.15) no to much to ask for, and we are going to put that back into the game anyway.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
182
dayerider on Dec 16, 2018 wrote:
I think people need to realize that while people may consider PvP as the endgame, there are tons of people who do not want to PvP. We don't need it, we dont want it, and wont do it. We're not saying it shouldn't be available, but PvP is NOT for everybody, and I can speak for myself in saying that not only do I not do it, there is no reward for it. A badge? Big deal. New gear? who cares, it cant be used outside of pvp. New pets/mounts? I really dont care as I can hatch for the pets I want. The rewards for grinding out yet another thing isnt worth it. There is so much to grind out; gear, jewels, packs, pets, snacks, etc, that it's just not worth it. Plus, I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend every month on the newest and best gear. People say PvP is "what you do when you've completed the game", and what people dont really understand is that isnt true. Let's change that statement to reflect the truth of W101; GRINDING is the endgame. Farming for that elusive thing that you want. PVP is grinding just like getting that elusive darkmoor/borealis/waterworks/aquila/etc gear or the various ingredients for the seed/gear vaults or for mastery amulets or for the perfect pet or for the best seeds. It's all the same slog, it's just your goal that changes. If you LIKE PVP, keep doing it, but PVP is NOT the savior of the game people think it is. PVP has been elevated to mystical status because people want it to mean something.... they want it to be treated as PVE in that they want the content to continue, but all it is, is simply another thing to slog for, and many people dont play this game to see how they fair against real people. They come for the story of the game, not to see how they can pwn the noobs. Agree with me, disagree with me, that's no problem, but let;s not make pvp out to be this grand mystical savior of anything. Let's call it what it is, another slog, and an ego boost, nothing more.
But whats wrong with giving people who enjoy pvp more rewards for doing it? It doesn't effect you at all. Its just a nice reward for people that enjoy to participate in pvp.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
dayerider on Dec 16, 2018 wrote:
I think people need to realize that while people may consider PvP as the endgame, there are tons of people who do not want to PvP. We don't need it, we dont want it, and wont do it. We're not saying it shouldn't be available, but PvP is NOT for everybody, and I can speak for myself in saying that not only do I not do it, there is no reward for it. A badge? Big deal. New gear? who cares, it cant be used outside of pvp. New pets/mounts? I really dont care as I can hatch for the pets I want. The rewards for grinding out yet another thing isnt worth it. There is so much to grind out; gear, jewels, packs, pets, snacks, etc, that it's just not worth it. Plus, I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend every month on the newest and best gear. People say PvP is "what you do when you've completed the game", and what people dont really understand is that isnt true. Let's change that statement to reflect the truth of W101; GRINDING is the endgame. Farming for that elusive thing that you want. PVP is grinding just like getting that elusive darkmoor/borealis/waterworks/aquila/etc gear or the various ingredients for the seed/gear vaults or for mastery amulets or for the perfect pet or for the best seeds. It's all the same slog, it's just your goal that changes. If you LIKE PVP, keep doing it, but PVP is NOT the savior of the game people think it is. PVP has been elevated to mystical status because people want it to mean something.... they want it to be treated as PVE in that they want the content to continue, but all it is, is simply another thing to slog for, and many people dont play this game to see how they fair against real people. They come for the story of the game, not to see how they can pwn the noobs. Agree with me, disagree with me, that's no problem, but let;s not make pvp out to be this grand mystical savior of anything. Let's call it what it is, another slog, and an ego boost, nothing more.
Not liking PvP is a valid personal critique but pretending PvP doesn't have huge, lucrative potential is simply disingenuous. The 3 most popular PC games at this very moment are ALL PvP oriented games. Fortnite: Battle Royale- a barebones PvP adaptation to the much more expansive PvE experience became a worldwide phenomenon- far outstripping it's PvE only iteration.

The fact is, if KI can fix both balance and accessibility of it's PvP, it would be a huge boon for the entire game. The problem is that KI has neglected PvP for so many years that large systemic problems have taken root and it will take a complete revamp to fix entirely rather than just band aids. To their credit, the development team has finally realized the potential of PvP- making more essential changes in the last 2 years than they have in the previous 8. I have high hopes going forward after seeing the newfound attention the dev team is putting on PvP but only time will tell if they are willing to put forth the necessary sustained effort and take the necessary risks to truly fix PvP.

You're right that the current state of PvP is a slog. It doesn't have to be.

Survivor
Sep 16, 2011
29
Catherine Wilddrea... on Dec 16, 2018 wrote:
my opinion is
KI should make a new Podium for Overlords aka Warlords with 1001 points and above. I also am tired of trying to rank and get discouraged facing a Warlord with 1100 or above. What do they have to lose, 16 points and still a Warlord, I lose 16 points and go back to captain or less.
RANKING means you are going up in rank, Overlords are NOT going up in rank.
They need a separate Podium, Battle of the Fittest. This will allow those of us a better chance to Rank up.
I think this will bring new players into the arena. Maybe the Overlords are tired of not having a challenge with lower rank wizards and that is why they do not play. This will give the Overlords a Challenge and allow the ranking wizards to be encouraged to PVP more.

ALSO, what do you do with all those arena tickets after you have everything. Maybe buy crowns with them
Maybe like 20 arena tickets for 1 crown or 100 tickets for 5 crowns. I have 23,000 arena tickets from tournaments, so that would be like 1,150 crowns ($1.15) no to much to ask for, and we are going to put that back into the game anyway.
I really like that ticket conversion idea!

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2342
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
Not liking PvP is a valid personal critique but pretending PvP doesn't have huge, lucrative potential is simply disingenuous. The 3 most popular PC games at this very moment are ALL PvP oriented games. Fortnite: Battle Royale- a barebones PvP adaptation to the much more expansive PvE experience became a worldwide phenomenon- far outstripping it's PvE only iteration.

The fact is, if KI can fix both balance and accessibility of it's PvP, it would be a huge boon for the entire game. The problem is that KI has neglected PvP for so many years that large systemic problems have taken root and it will take a complete revamp to fix entirely rather than just band aids. To their credit, the development team has finally realized the potential of PvP- making more essential changes in the last 2 years than they have in the previous 8. I have high hopes going forward after seeing the newfound attention the dev team is putting on PvP but only time will tell if they are willing to put forth the necessary sustained effort and take the necessary risks to truly fix PvP.

You're right that the current state of PvP is a slog. It doesn't have to be.
I never said PvP didnt have a huge impact on their bottom line. There is obviously a desire for PvP in the game, and clearly, by post after post after post after post after post, year after year after year, the system is hosed and NEEDS a fix in order to be a viable option for more people.

All of that said, what do you really gain from PvPing? How is it any different than farming for a piece of gear or a pet? THAT is the point I was trying to make. PvP has been designated "what you do when you finish the story", like it's something OTHER than what it actually is. Seriously, what do you get for it? You get a title, you get victories, you get bragging rights, and you get rewards, which allow you to get items. How is that any different from farming Darkmoor for the gear? You're repeating an activity over and over, in order to obtain your goal. Even if they fixed PvP, and now it was PERFECT, how would PvP not be just another form of farming? Most people, from what I have read on these forums, PVP for status; they want the badge....... guess what, they're farming. If they want a pet, or a mount, or reagents, they're still FARMING for it. PvP is nothing but another form of farming.

Explorer
Feb 19, 2010
89
dayerider on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
I never said PvP didnt have a huge impact on their bottom line. There is obviously a desire for PvP in the game, and clearly, by post after post after post after post after post, year after year after year, the system is hosed and NEEDS a fix in order to be a viable option for more people.

All of that said, what do you really gain from PvPing? How is it any different than farming for a piece of gear or a pet? THAT is the point I was trying to make. PvP has been designated "what you do when you finish the story", like it's something OTHER than what it actually is. Seriously, what do you get for it? You get a title, you get victories, you get bragging rights, and you get rewards, which allow you to get items. How is that any different from farming Darkmoor for the gear? You're repeating an activity over and over, in order to obtain your goal. Even if they fixed PvP, and now it was PERFECT, how would PvP not be just another form of farming? Most people, from what I have read on these forums, PVP for status; they want the badge....... guess what, they're farming. If they want a pet, or a mount, or reagents, they're still FARMING for it. PvP is nothing but another form of farming.
I have been on the game since 2009, I tried to PVP at first but was not good at it so I gave it up. Mostly because I did not understand PVP. About four years ago a friend encouraged me to try it again, first by watching others PVP and then doing tournaments. I finally got the nerve to rank PVP. Now I love it. It is a pastime for me and is not for everyone. But to win a match against another Human and not a computer is a thrill.
What do I gain from PVP, the thrill and challenge of winning or losing a match against another HUMAN.
The arena tickets to purchase items I want. The badge, that I made it to Warlord. The trophys 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 Gold, Silver and Bronze to show.
So if you want to call it farming that is fine with me. The reason it needs fixes is because you can not predict what another human will do with the gear and spells they have. They can not Nerf the opponents.

But it is no where like farming for gear in Darkmoor or the Storm Titan.
You are doing matches against a computer not a human. The computer does the same thing over and over each time. I have done them all,
i have all the gear and jewels. I have no reason to farm anything in the game for the repetition of the same ending of the match, I win, get the gear or not, rinse and repeat. But like all the bosses in the game they are sooner or later Nerfed.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
182
dayerider on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
I never said PvP didnt have a huge impact on their bottom line. There is obviously a desire for PvP in the game, and clearly, by post after post after post after post after post, year after year after year, the system is hosed and NEEDS a fix in order to be a viable option for more people.

All of that said, what do you really gain from PvPing? How is it any different than farming for a piece of gear or a pet? THAT is the point I was trying to make. PvP has been designated "what you do when you finish the story", like it's something OTHER than what it actually is. Seriously, what do you get for it? You get a title, you get victories, you get bragging rights, and you get rewards, which allow you to get items. How is that any different from farming Darkmoor for the gear? You're repeating an activity over and over, in order to obtain your goal. Even if they fixed PvP, and now it was PERFECT, how would PvP not be just another form of farming? Most people, from what I have read on these forums, PVP for status; they want the badge....... guess what, they're farming. If they want a pet, or a mount, or reagents, they're still FARMING for it. PvP is nothing but another form of farming.
People like different things in the game, some people like my self enjoy pvp, while I dislike farming and would have quit this game by now if pvp wasnt an option due to the fact that I don't find anything pretty much besides questing in a new world or pvp fun. The reason why so many people like pvp is because it challenges the player in a way that questing and boss fights do not. Boss fights are made to be defeated, the outcome is more then likely the same every time, while in pvp, you dont know if you will win or lose. Once again its all a matter of opinion. I can't stand farming haha, but I like to do pvp

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
808
Exabytes on Dec 15, 2018 wrote:
Talking trash is a part of being competitive. I have far more problems with losing a match because a wizard combos Burning Rampage => Black Mantle => Scorching Scimitars from first than I have with some random guy using the
'These enemies are easy, no need for strategy here' Menu Chat. Or those pathetic Angel Jades with heal spam and max heal boost healing for 1k Satyrs even under Doom. Because honestly, there really isn't a need for strategy at the moment. You go first, get a shadow pip, use a 4-pip 2.3k damage spell, rinse and repeat. You go second, flee the duel.

PvP should be encouraged, and the way that happens is by balancing the game. PVE is extremely balanced; there is no reason why KI can't do the same for PVP. As a Captain, constantly being paired versus Warlords with 1000+ rank is tiring. I win sometimes, but without a perfect pet it's difficult.

I like the idea of more meaningful daily rewards, but nobody is reaching 1300+ rank unless they're extremely hardcore. I was on the leaderboards in the third age, and I was at 1281 rank. For a game as unbalanced as this one, putting that high of a barrier for a daily Ranked reward will only benefit the people who are already there.

The Arena feels empty because it is. Not only do you have to have the perfect get and perfect gear, crafting even a single Polished Piercing Jewel is ridiculously hard and so you usually will decide to pay for them via the packs, which means spending even more money. Same for gardening Mega Snacks for your pet.

The barrier for entry at Exalted+ is just too high for any not-hardcore player. And then you have the lower levels abusing the Glendemmings gear. If I'm going to spend 70 dollars on a game (Energy Gear, Pierce Jewels) just to be relevant in PVP (not even to excel), I'm going to make sure it's worth my time. And right now for many people, it just isn't.

Would be nice if someone actually working at KI balance responds to one of these threads concerning the state of PVP.
Given the thought on what you said I fully understand and agree. I'm a life main but I don't jade in fact I really on critical heal, giving the reference you made I don't think anything is wrong with healing as you just stated being second is like nearly a try hard mode against someone who knows what they're doing and your just sitting there depending on some kind of luck as opposed to either being hit by a fire elf mantle efreet combo or FFA yup or even King Art.
I don't think pvp can be balanced with this first-second rng and that's the main issue. If going first would automatically give you a damage reduction while going second gives some kind of damage boost. It would still only benefit some schools.
Mostly the schools that do mass damage combo spells for little to no efforts at all.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
808
dayerider on Dec 16, 2018 wrote:
I think people need to realize that while people may consider PvP as the endgame, there are tons of people who do not want to PvP. We don't need it, we dont want it, and wont do it. We're not saying it shouldn't be available, but PvP is NOT for everybody, and I can speak for myself in saying that not only do I not do it, there is no reward for it. A badge? Big deal. New gear? who cares, it cant be used outside of pvp. New pets/mounts? I really dont care as I can hatch for the pets I want. The rewards for grinding out yet another thing isnt worth it. There is so much to grind out; gear, jewels, packs, pets, snacks, etc, that it's just not worth it. Plus, I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend every month on the newest and best gear. People say PvP is "what you do when you've completed the game", and what people dont really understand is that isnt true. Let's change that statement to reflect the truth of W101; GRINDING is the endgame. Farming for that elusive thing that you want. PVP is grinding just like getting that elusive darkmoor/borealis/waterworks/aquila/etc gear or the various ingredients for the seed/gear vaults or for mastery amulets or for the perfect pet or for the best seeds. It's all the same slog, it's just your goal that changes. If you LIKE PVP, keep doing it, but PVP is NOT the savior of the game people think it is. PVP has been elevated to mystical status because people want it to mean something.... they want it to be treated as PVE in that they want the content to continue, but all it is, is simply another thing to slog for, and many people dont play this game to see how they fair against real people. They come for the story of the game, not to see how they can pwn the noobs. Agree with me, disagree with me, that's no problem, but let;s not make pvp out to be this grand mystical savior of anything. Let's call it what it is, another slog, and an ego boost, nothing more.
While I consider your statement true and valid for the most part, you miss understood the subject matter at hand and then started your rant about pvp not being the end game content etc , while this is true you failed to appreciate the fact that this post is actually a way to get people into pvp by balancing the main issue that described in the few posts before yours. There is an old saying if you haven't done it before don't talk about its value. You stated you don't pvp, therefore, commenting on this post isn't for you(just had to state out the truth) but you are however still free to express your opinions at hand just remember to categorize it under the subject at hand.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
808
dayerider on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
I never said PvP didnt have a huge impact on their bottom line. There is obviously a desire for PvP in the game, and clearly, by post after post after post after post after post, year after year after year, the system is hosed and NEEDS a fix in order to be a viable option for more people.

All of that said, what do you really gain from PvPing? How is it any different than farming for a piece of gear or a pet? THAT is the point I was trying to make. PvP has been designated "what you do when you finish the story", like it's something OTHER than what it actually is. Seriously, what do you get for it? You get a title, you get victories, you get bragging rights, and you get rewards, which allow you to get items. How is that any different from farming Darkmoor for the gear? You're repeating an activity over and over, in order to obtain your goal. Even if they fixed PvP, and now it was PERFECT, how would PvP not be just another form of farming? Most people, from what I have read on these forums, PVP for status; they want the badge....... guess what, they're farming. If they want a pet, or a mount, or reagents, they're still FARMING for it. PvP is nothing but another form of farming.
Again you should stop commenting on a post because you simply dont pvp. What you do in pve isstrictly UP TO YOU, if you want to farm your days off for the rest of your life so be it but pvp is a competitive sport like in every game except for this one obviously its always for the fun. Show off your warlord badge, to be honest, is a little on the cheap side. The reward system should be upgraded. I like to pvp and i also believe it should be balanced for those who appreciate dueling. Point is again if you dont pvp don't talk about it.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
dayerider on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
I never said PvP didnt have a huge impact on their bottom line. There is obviously a desire for PvP in the game, and clearly, by post after post after post after post after post, year after year after year, the system is hosed and NEEDS a fix in order to be a viable option for more people.

All of that said, what do you really gain from PvPing? How is it any different than farming for a piece of gear or a pet? THAT is the point I was trying to make. PvP has been designated "what you do when you finish the story", like it's something OTHER than what it actually is. Seriously, what do you get for it? You get a title, you get victories, you get bragging rights, and you get rewards, which allow you to get items. How is that any different from farming Darkmoor for the gear? You're repeating an activity over and over, in order to obtain your goal. Even if they fixed PvP, and now it was PERFECT, how would PvP not be just another form of farming? Most people, from what I have read on these forums, PVP for status; they want the badge....... guess what, they're farming. If they want a pet, or a mount, or reagents, they're still FARMING for it. PvP is nothing but another form of farming.
Different people pvp for different reasons. Some are, as you've stated- goal oriented. They want the commanders robe, warlord badge etc. For them, the fun in pvp lies in the destination.

Other's like myself, pvp because we love facing intelligent opponents. We love outsmarting or outplaying another wizard whose goal is to similarly defeat us. We love encountering and using spells we would never encounter or have reason to use in PvE. For players like us the fun lies in the journey, not the destination.

Other players can play for a mix between these 2 reasons or their own reasons entirely. Some may be pvping to prove to themselves they can get to warlord by virtue of their skills. Some could be pvping becaue they love showing off their hard earned gear. Some could pvp because competition is how they make and keep friends.

The bottom line is that many people don't simply pvp because it's something thing to do after you finish the main game. For many, they only play because they enjoy pvp. For us, the very act of pvping is the main game.

Survivor
Sep 16, 2011
29
dayerider on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
I never said PvP didnt have a huge impact on their bottom line. There is obviously a desire for PvP in the game, and clearly, by post after post after post after post after post, year after year after year, the system is hosed and NEEDS a fix in order to be a viable option for more people.

All of that said, what do you really gain from PvPing? How is it any different than farming for a piece of gear or a pet? THAT is the point I was trying to make. PvP has been designated "what you do when you finish the story", like it's something OTHER than what it actually is. Seriously, what do you get for it? You get a title, you get victories, you get bragging rights, and you get rewards, which allow you to get items. How is that any different from farming Darkmoor for the gear? You're repeating an activity over and over, in order to obtain your goal. Even if they fixed PvP, and now it was PERFECT, how would PvP not be just another form of farming? Most people, from what I have read on these forums, PVP for status; they want the badge....... guess what, they're farming. If they want a pet, or a mount, or reagents, they're still FARMING for it. PvP is nothing but another form of farming.
This was what I was trying to get at with my original post. If people were to actually have purpose or reward to strive for by doing ranked then I assumed it would possibly attract more people to test their skills and get better in PvP. However, there is the underlying issue of how broken the current meta is. In my opinion, fixing the meta won't attract more people but rather sustain the already loyal PvP players. I honestly believe that fixing the meta should be a 'Step 2' and giving players more reasons to partake in PvP a 'Step 1'.

Survivor
Sep 16, 2011
29
Fred Frost on Dec 17, 2018 wrote:
People like different things in the game, some people like my self enjoy pvp, while I dislike farming and would have quit this game by now if pvp wasnt an option due to the fact that I don't find anything pretty much besides questing in a new world or pvp fun. The reason why so many people like pvp is because it challenges the player in a way that questing and boss fights do not. Boss fights are made to be defeated, the outcome is more then likely the same every time, while in pvp, you dont know if you will win or lose. Once again its all a matter of opinion. I can't stand farming haha, but I like to do pvp
I agree 100%.

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2101
The reasons people don't PvP will always be a mystery to PvPers because they refuse to listen to casual/non-PvPer's opinions and thoughts. We get told to 'stop commenting' and we do. Dayerider just became the latest source of information to be kicked to the curb.

If you want to know why PvP isn't more popular and why the arena is empty the most important sources of information are the people who love the game but avoid PvP and the PvP community...but as soon as they say anything they're told their opinions don't matter because they're not serious PvPers.

Sorry this happened to you Dayerider, it happens to any of us non-warlords who dare to speak in front of the masters rofl...lmk if you'd like to do some PvE dungeons or fun stuff where you can be part of a team, respected and appreciated

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Victoria FireHeart on Dec 18, 2018 wrote:
The reasons people don't PvP will always be a mystery to PvPers because they refuse to listen to casual/non-PvPer's opinions and thoughts. We get told to 'stop commenting' and we do. Dayerider just became the latest source of information to be kicked to the curb.

If you want to know why PvP isn't more popular and why the arena is empty the most important sources of information are the people who love the game but avoid PvP and the PvP community...but as soon as they say anything they're told their opinions don't matter because they're not serious PvPers.

Sorry this happened to you Dayerider, it happens to any of us non-warlords who dare to speak in front of the masters rofl...lmk if you'd like to do some PvE dungeons or fun stuff where you can be part of a team, respected and appreciated
This is a bit unfair, only one person in this thread told dayerider to stop commenting and judging from the posts here, said person has the least experience of the pvpers here.

That being said, the reasons the arena is empty are multifaceted. The veterans are leaving because of unbalanced mechanics and slow reponse to feedback. Newbies don't join due to the barrier to entry(most of what dayerider talks about falls into this category), attitudes/trash talk and the punishing matching system.

Like I mentioned earlier, PvP needs a ground up revamp to have any hope of a major revival.

Defender
Mar 31, 2015
177
dayerider on Dec 16, 2018 wrote:
I think people need to realize that while people may consider PvP as the endgame, there are tons of people who do not want to PvP. We don't need it, we dont want it, and wont do it. We're not saying it shouldn't be available, but PvP is NOT for everybody, and I can speak for myself in saying that not only do I not do it, there is no reward for it. A badge? Big deal. New gear? who cares, it cant be used outside of pvp. New pets/mounts? I really dont care as I can hatch for the pets I want. The rewards for grinding out yet another thing isnt worth it. There is so much to grind out; gear, jewels, packs, pets, snacks, etc, that it's just not worth it. Plus, I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend every month on the newest and best gear. People say PvP is "what you do when you've completed the game", and what people dont really understand is that isnt true. Let's change that statement to reflect the truth of W101; GRINDING is the endgame. Farming for that elusive thing that you want. PVP is grinding just like getting that elusive darkmoor/borealis/waterworks/aquila/etc gear or the various ingredients for the seed/gear vaults or for mastery amulets or for the perfect pet or for the best seeds. It's all the same slog, it's just your goal that changes. If you LIKE PVP, keep doing it, but PVP is NOT the savior of the game people think it is. PVP has been elevated to mystical status because people want it to mean something.... they want it to be treated as PVE in that they want the content to continue, but all it is, is simply another thing to slog for, and many people dont play this game to see how they fair against real people. They come for the story of the game, not to see how they can pwn the noobs. Agree with me, disagree with me, that's no problem, but let;s not make pvp out to be this grand mystical savior of anything. Let's call it what it is, another slog, and an ego boost, nothing more.
PVP isn't and won't be THE savior of the game, however I daresay it is a major one.

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2101
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 19, 2018 wrote:
This is a bit unfair, only one person in this thread told dayerider to stop commenting and judging from the posts here, said person has the least experience of the pvpers here.

That being said, the reasons the arena is empty are multifaceted. The veterans are leaving because of unbalanced mechanics and slow reponse to feedback. Newbies don't join due to the barrier to entry(most of what dayerider talks about falls into this category), attitudes/trash talk and the punishing matching system.

Like I mentioned earlier, PvP needs a ground up revamp to have any hope of a major revival.
I agree Eric, my post is a bit unfair because it tars the whole PvP Community with the same brush because that's exactly what happens when casual/non-PvPers join a thread, get shouted down and dismissed, but no-one stands up for their right to speak...much less encourages them to share their thoughts. When no-one stands up for them, the assumption is that they all agree...even if some don't.

Staying silent and ignoring such comments doesn't happen elsewhere, but it consistently happens on PvP discussions. Just because the examples on this thread come from 1 newer player doesn't mean it isn't a long-standing issue that happens a lot. It's happened to me plenty of times and I stopped commenting on PvP, even now I'm reluctant to voice an opinion.

The other day I got accused of creating 'a straw man argument' for pointing out pets were not pay to win. I gave helpful info on how to make a perfect pet without spending a cent...but despite saying NOTHING in relation to the PvP aspects of the post (I literally said I'd leave that 'to the PvP experts') I was shouted down and everything I said about PETS was dismissed. The thread can be found here.

Please note that both threads (this and the one above) are in the DORMS...I avoid the PvP section because my views are not welcome there.

It doesn't just happen on this forum...when I wanted to get into PvP and tried to join in with PvP discussions on another popular forum my questions were put down to 'stirring trouble', 'too noobish' and I was even told I was 'too stupid to understand PvP'!

Even if KI magically perfected the mechanics, while there is an atitude of having to prove yourself worthy to even discuss PvP, people won't persist with it. KI can't change that, it's down to us as a wizard community to encourage inclusivity and good sportsmanship. It's become so 'normal' to ignore casual/new PvPers being told they don't count that the PvP Community don't recognise how much it contributes to their 'empty arena' issue!

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
971
My best friend in-game PvPs. I have gone to watch some of her matches.

I was intrigued enough to try it out. Mind you, I have been a part of the Wizards community (although under a different account) since 2009

When I tried, I was appalled at the trash talk and comments as to the "lameness" of my gear. It was a wholly unpleasant experience for me.

Then when I peruse these boards it seems like every other post is "X is broken in PvP. KI please (buff or nerf) X"

If you seriously want those of us who enjoy the game but do not PvP to try it out. Then by all means STOP complaining and give us chance to learn how to PvP.

The Ghoststalker Bros.
Steve 130
Christopher 26

Explorer
Feb 19, 2010
89
Area51Alien on Dec 20, 2018 wrote:
My best friend in-game PvPs. I have gone to watch some of her matches.

I was intrigued enough to try it out. Mind you, I have been a part of the Wizards community (although under a different account) since 2009

When I tried, I was appalled at the trash talk and comments as to the "lameness" of my gear. It was a wholly unpleasant experience for me.

Then when I peruse these boards it seems like every other post is "X is broken in PvP. KI please (buff or nerf) X"

If you seriously want those of us who enjoy the game but do not PvP to try it out. Then by all means STOP complaining and give us chance to learn how to PvP.

The Ghoststalker Bros.
Steve 130
Christopher 26
I see your point of the trash talk, we have asked Ki to help with this. The simple solution is to mute the wizards in the match from hearing any comments from the PEANUT GALLERY. I do not trash talk people, but have heard plenty of it. But you really need to do Tournaments, they are fun and fair.

As I stated before, the Warlords need another podium for Warlords ONLY, and should not be allowed in the rank podium. The truth is if a level 130 does PVP you will be matched with anyone. No matter what level or rank. So your chances of getting a warlord at level 130 is much higher. Matching are Low level-high rank VS high level-low rank.
So if i am level 120, I will not face a higher level with a higher rank than I am. But I will face lower levels with higher ranks than me. I do not know what they claim is Broken in PVP. Can someone tell me?
The only thing I see broken is facing Warlords over 1001 or not going first. I dont know how not going first will ever be fixed.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Victoria FireHeart on Dec 20, 2018 wrote:
I agree Eric, my post is a bit unfair because it tars the whole PvP Community with the same brush because that's exactly what happens when casual/non-PvPers join a thread, get shouted down and dismissed, but no-one stands up for their right to speak...much less encourages them to share their thoughts. When no-one stands up for them, the assumption is that they all agree...even if some don't.

Staying silent and ignoring such comments doesn't happen elsewhere, but it consistently happens on PvP discussions. Just because the examples on this thread come from 1 newer player doesn't mean it isn't a long-standing issue that happens a lot. It's happened to me plenty of times and I stopped commenting on PvP, even now I'm reluctant to voice an opinion.

The other day I got accused of creating 'a straw man argument' for pointing out pets were not pay to win. I gave helpful info on how to make a perfect pet without spending a cent...but despite saying NOTHING in relation to the PvP aspects of the post (I literally said I'd leave that 'to the PvP experts') I was shouted down and everything I said about PETS was dismissed. The thread can be found here.

Please note that both threads (this and the one above) are in the DORMS...I avoid the PvP section because my views are not welcome there.

It doesn't just happen on this forum...when I wanted to get into PvP and tried to join in with PvP discussions on another popular forum my questions were put down to 'stirring trouble', 'too noobish' and I was even told I was 'too stupid to understand PvP'!

Even if KI magically perfected the mechanics, while there is an atitude of having to prove yourself worthy to even discuss PvP, people won't persist with it. KI can't change that, it's down to us as a wizard community to encourage inclusivity and good sportsmanship. It's become so 'normal' to ignore casual/new PvPers being told they don't count that the PvP Community don't recognise how much it contributes to their 'empty arena' issue!
Sadly sportsmanship and trash talk has been a long-standing issue in PvP. I and many others have written about it before: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?146356-The-PvP-Manifesto (That's a 2011 article to get an idea how long this stuff has been going on).

That being said, neither KI nor the community can enforce sportsmanship. However, I do believe there are some measures KI can put in place to at least reduce the level of stress in the arena.

-All chat is default off in the arena and arena lobby- this includes spectator, public and private messages. If one so chooses they can toggle this setting on and off as they see fit for each of the chat types.

I don't think there is any solution to forums issues, that's a job up to the mods.

Delver
Aug 21, 2013
233
Alex Darkhammer on Dec 15, 2018 wrote:
Hey everyone, this will be my first time writing on the message boards so pardon me if i post this in the wrong place. Anyways, I've been playing Wizard101 for a very long time. I've had this account since around 2011 and used to play on a different account pre-Celestia. I grew up loving this game and I really find it unfortunate with the current state of the PvP and PvE communities. In the past 4 or so years I've seen how much of the hardcore playerbase which mainly resides within the PvP community have expressed their opinions on the 'state of the game'. Many people have said that Wizard101 is a "dying game" over the years. My opinion, however, is that Wizard101 isn't dying but rather the PvP community is dying. As stated before, most of the hardcore players reside in the PvP community as a way to test their skills and utilize the gear that they worked hard and spent a tiresome amount of time for. The problem here is that there isn't really a reward for continuing to do PvP, especially at max level. And even with the daily ranked rewards, it just doesn't seem entirely worth it all the time like it should be. Many people have left the PvP community and the game entirely due to this flaw. In my eyes, PvP should be encouraged in order to achieve more and bolster the endgame. For example, what if, in addition to the current daily rewards there are bonus rewards for reaching each rank (i.e. Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Veteran, etc.) providing rewards ranging from low tier like sandstone to something high tier like crowns. Of course this would be tiered accordingly (i.e. Private=sandstone, Warlord=crowns). An additional daily reward system which one can only unlock at around 1300 rank and must maintain that rank would be fantastic for providing more reasons to play PvP. For the new daily reward system, there would be a loot pool of rare reagents, snacks, treasure cards, and even crowns that should drop at around 100 each time and with the reward being a random roll. These improvements alone could motivate both halves of the playerbase to mesh together and would also provide an additional reason to continue playing and supporting the game. The idea could also be applied to badges in order for a better reward and to encourage people to grind the PvE half of the game as well. Weekly PvP quests could also be implemented for a much more challenging grind and provide greater and more static rewards than the daily rewards. This would also allow crowns to be more available in-game for free at the cost of time and effort. An additional idea I have in order to encourage PvP play is to disable text and open chat for all players while in the arena/watching a match. This is just a suggestion due to the PvP community being labled as toxic by both people within and outside the community. If people can't talk trash while in the arena or at a match, there'd be less of a likelihood for players to feel discouraged by PvP in general. Right now, the arena feels empty.
Since you mention this is your first post on message boards, here is a piece of advice to help you in the future. Use paragraphs. It helps make your content easier to read and thus more likely to be read. (Edit: I want to clarify that ideas to help the game are welcome, so please don't take this as discouragement. If it's not easy to read, people who would support you might skip it.)

That said, when it comes to PvP, I don't do it myself, except maybe once in awhile at someone's castle. I'm just not a PvP person. However, even though I'm not a PvP person, I know that trash talking is part of the PvP experience. There is a difference between trash talk and toxic talk. While it's hard to define the difference, you'll definitely know it if you witness it. An example of each, though, would be like this. Trash talk: "That was a lame attack!" Toxic talk: "Aww, the little kid lost, now he's going to go cry to his parents..." (It's hard to get truly toxic with the chats, but not impossible, and this is mild compared to what could be said.)

Think of trash talk as friends who jokingly insult each other. It's said only as part of the fun, but no real harm is meant. I don't know of anyone who has avoided PvP because of trash talk. Toxic like behavior, perhaps, but not trash talk. If anything, PvP without the trash talk wouldn't be much fun, at least in my opinion. It provides motivation to win against your opponent so you can enjoy the victory that much more.

1