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Some of the scion spells need a buff

AuthorMessage
Defender
Mar 10, 2014
150
Some schools have scion spells need to be made better.

Life, and ice need serious changes

I feel like the life spell should be a heal to all friends, and keep the heal amount but remove the over time heal, just make the heal 1200 be to the entire team or double if the caster has 25% or below hp.

I feel like the ice spell should be made 80% instead of 90%. The caster should be required to have 80% hp because 90% is still to hard to reach.

Another school that is questionable is death, I feel like this spell is weak as well but I can't come up any changes.

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
955
The Life Scion spell needs to be better than the equivalent healing in pip cost from the other healing spells.

Currently it is not.

Logically, the more powerful the wizard the more powerful the spell. But with the Scion spells that does not seem to be the case.

I realize how tough it is to keep game balance and how it easy it is to OP a spell. But, when you move up in the spell ranks, the newer higher ranked spell NEEDS to be better than what came before. Otherwise there is no point in implementing the new spell.

And when that becomes the case, heck just keep spamming Fairy and Leprechaun.

Steven Ghoststalker
129

Illuminator
Mar 31, 2009
1270
Defender
Sep 30, 2018
127
Fred Frost on Nov 18, 2018 wrote:
Some schools have scion spells need to be made better.

Life, and ice need serious changes

I feel like the life spell should be a heal to all friends, and keep the heal amount but remove the over time heal, just make the heal 1200 be to the entire team or double if the caster has 25% or below hp.

I feel like the ice spell should be made 80% instead of 90%. The caster should be required to have 80% hp because 90% is still to hard to reach.

Another school that is questionable is death, I feel like this spell is weak as well but I can't come up any changes.
Ice spell needs a nerf in damage the only school that can do x2 the damage with 90% health or full health, Very problematic in PVP when it comes down to just shrike blade bubble mass damage. Why are ice hitting like a storm?
Life needs to be reassembled. Enough with the heals and to have one that heals all friends for 1200 for 11 pip can be a serious concern in a 4v4 pvp match. As for pve am fine with pigsie rebirth and satyr. We need mass damage aoe

AngellifeheartLvl 102

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
150
angellifeheart on Nov 21, 2018 wrote:
Ice spell needs a nerf in damage the only school that can do x2 the damage with 90% health or full health, Very problematic in PVP when it comes down to just shrike blade bubble mass damage. Why are ice hitting like a storm?
Life needs to be reassembled. Enough with the heals and to have one that heals all friends for 1200 for 11 pip can be a serious concern in a 4v4 pvp match. As for pve am fine with pigsie rebirth and satyr. We need mass damage aoe

AngellifeheartLvl 102
Actually the ice scion spell is extremely bad for 1v1 pvp. Most ice wizards have 8000 health, 90% of 8000 is 800. So all anyone has to do to stop the ice wizard from casting the spell is deal 800 damage, and keep in mind the player has allot of time to do that 800 damage because of the fact that the ice wizard needs 11 pips to even cast the spell. At max level doing 800 damage is a piece of cake, every school can do 800 damage especially if they are first by the time the ice gets 11 pips. For example luminous weaver does 1000 damage easily and can be cast first turn dealing 1000 damage and leaving a weakness and leaving the scion ice spell useless.

Defender
Sep 30, 2018
127
Fred Frost on Nov 21, 2018 wrote:
Actually the ice scion spell is extremely bad for 1v1 pvp. Most ice wizards have 8000 health, 90% of 8000 is 800. So all anyone has to do to stop the ice wizard from casting the spell is deal 800 damage, and keep in mind the player has allot of time to do that 800 damage because of the fact that the ice wizard needs 11 pips to even cast the spell. At max level doing 800 damage is a piece of cake, every school can do 800 damage especially if they are first by the time the ice gets 11 pips. For example luminous weaver does 1000 damage easily and can be cast first turn dealing 1000 damage and leaving a weakness and leaving the scion ice spell useless.
Exactly? why should ice have the open window to land a 2k base damage in shrike mode easily to nuke the life outta someone? sure in PVE it doesn't matter but once again k i need to be careful of spells effect there implementing that affects pvp greatly shadow spells already broke the game. we don't need any more one-shot plays. We need more utility spells.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
150
angellifeheart on Nov 23, 2018 wrote:
Exactly? why should ice have the open window to land a 2k base damage in shrike mode easily to nuke the life outta someone? sure in PVE it doesn't matter but once again k i need to be careful of spells effect there implementing that affects pvp greatly shadow spells already broke the game. we don't need any more one-shot plays. We need more utility spells.
Why should ice/life/death get a less useful spell compared to the other schools when they work just as hard to get it? Also all of these spells are overpowered and can oneshot someone in shrike, but its unfair though when a school can't use a scion spell back to compete against the other schools insane scion spells. Storm can instantly oneshot anyone when they dont have a blade on and if they are in shrike (I dont think the storm spell needs nerfed however) Fire can fire beetle to remove shields then fuel shrike and one shot. (once again Im not saying this spell should be nerfed) all Im saying is that every school should have an even chance to fight back against another schools powerful scion spells with that of their own.

Hero
Sep 07, 2011
747
I agree that life should be "to all" and/or bigger. Ice is effectively OP as it is.

Adding to what's been said, the Storm scion spell does less damage per pip than normal for the class. The Myth spell "bonus" conditions are prohibitive to achieve.

Pretty much a fail on the Scion spells across the board, even with the feedback from test. Great update overall, but the spells still need reworking.

Defender
Sep 30, 2018
127
Fred Frost on Nov 23, 2018 wrote:
Why should ice/life/death get a less useful spell compared to the other schools when they work just as hard to get it? Also all of these spells are overpowered and can oneshot someone in shrike, but its unfair though when a school can't use a scion spell back to compete against the other schools insane scion spells. Storm can instantly oneshot anyone when they dont have a blade on and if they are in shrike (I dont think the storm spell needs nerfed however) Fire can fire beetle to remove shields then fuel shrike and one shot. (once again Im not saying this spell should be nerfed) all Im saying is that every school should have an even chance to fight back against another schools powerful scion spells with that of their own.
Which is the thing again am gonna reinstate my comment? at max level no school should be able to one shot in pvp because they want to, it should take strategy and luck against this already broken rgn. Shadow spells already broke the game and am not looking forward to see more spells break the game. Point said the harder the x2 requirement the better. a spell that does 1500 damage is more than enough compared to the already overpowered gear stats we have.
having 2k base damage off one spell regardless of how many pips is a bit much on the pvp side again towards PVE it doesn't matter. As for life WE DONT NEED ANYMORE HEALS and making it aoe doesn't change anything because it would be less than for single 12 pips on a healing spell is dumb point made.
BUFF SWAN! :3
angellifeheartlvl105

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
150
angellifeheart on Nov 24, 2018 wrote:
Which is the thing again am gonna reinstate my comment? at max level no school should be able to one shot in pvp because they want to, it should take strategy and luck against this already broken rgn. Shadow spells already broke the game and am not looking forward to see more spells break the game. Point said the harder the x2 requirement the better. a spell that does 1500 damage is more than enough compared to the already overpowered gear stats we have.
having 2k base damage off one spell regardless of how many pips is a bit much on the pvp side again towards PVE it doesn't matter. As for life WE DONT NEED ANYMORE HEALS and making it aoe doesn't change anything because it would be less than for single 12 pips on a healing spell is dumb point made.
BUFF SWAN! :3
angellifeheartlvl105
I can see what you are saying, the spells should have hard requirements to be met to do double the damage. I agree that no one not even storm should be able to just one shot anyone in pvp. It is already insanely hard to vs a storm wizard from second when as soon as you use your blade for your hit they can just one shot you. I agree pvp should be more about strategy not who goes first shrike and can use a scion spell.

Delver
Mar 10, 2015
218
The Sion spells are fine when you consider fact they are old magic,now it is a stretch but old magic is not refined and is as such harder to use and lacks effiancy.

They are primordial spells from battle bee that are like thousand of years old. They are of course not efficant compared to our normal spells.

Ice does not need a fix, have you tried to do 800 damage to an ice with 70% resist spamming tower, and fortify? It’s not possible even with shrike. Shrike gives 50% piece the highest a wiz can have is 40% with gear, 15 with pierce enchant, and max 20 with aura.

So in best shape which is almost impossible to set up you have 135%. Most ppl in pvp get to 80%. So that’s exactly 1 tower and fortify. Good luck hitting through that you will do exactly 40-80 dmg. Good luck getting the 800.

And life no they do not need a upgrade. Sure it costs a ton of pips but it is designed as a emergency heal.

Death 30% is up to debate. You can use 3 juju and then hit. And it’s over. Player can’t do anything because even if he cleanses x3 his turns are up. So death is insane op wit juju.

Worst by far is fire with 6 traps. Since they don’t even contribute to damage, and most shields ppl and mobs use are glaciel -70% to fire

Geographer
Sep 19, 2013
839
Lukeskywalker1313 on Nov 25, 2018 wrote:
The Sion spells are fine when you consider fact they are old magic,now it is a stretch but old magic is not refined and is as such harder to use and lacks effiancy.

They are primordial spells from battle bee that are like thousand of years old. They are of course not efficant compared to our normal spells.

Ice does not need a fix, have you tried to do 800 damage to an ice with 70% resist spamming tower, and fortify? It’s not possible even with shrike. Shrike gives 50% piece the highest a wiz can have is 40% with gear, 15 with pierce enchant, and max 20 with aura.

So in best shape which is almost impossible to set up you have 135%. Most ppl in pvp get to 80%. So that’s exactly 1 tower and fortify. Good luck hitting through that you will do exactly 40-80 dmg. Good luck getting the 800.

And life no they do not need a upgrade. Sure it costs a ton of pips but it is designed as a emergency heal.

Death 30% is up to debate. You can use 3 juju and then hit. And it’s over. Player can’t do anything because even if he cleanses x3 his turns are up. So death is insane op wit juju.

Worst by far is fire with 6 traps. Since they don’t even contribute to damage, and most shields ppl and mobs use are glaciel -70% to fire
"They are primordial spells from battle bee that are like thousand of years old. They are of course not efficant compared to our normal spells."

Not an excuse for being bad. Gameplay should always take precedence over flavor.

"And life no they do not need a upgrade. Sure it costs a ton of pips but it is designed as a emergency heal."

Man, I'm sure life wizards are glad they have this so-called emergency heal that takes most of their pips and is less effective than Dryad.

"Worst by far is fire with 6 traps. Since they don’t even contribute to damage, and most shields ppl and mobs use are glaciel -70% to fire"

Fire has so many different ways to stack multiple traps it's not even funny. Fuel, Fire Beetle, Fire from Above...

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
955
Lukeskywalker1313 on Nov 25, 2018 wrote:
The Sion spells are fine when you consider fact they are old magic,now it is a stretch but old magic is not refined and is as such harder to use and lacks effiancy.

They are primordial spells from battle bee that are like thousand of years old. They are of course not efficant compared to our normal spells.

Ice does not need a fix, have you tried to do 800 damage to an ice with 70% resist spamming tower, and fortify? It’s not possible even with shrike. Shrike gives 50% piece the highest a wiz can have is 40% with gear, 15 with pierce enchant, and max 20 with aura.

So in best shape which is almost impossible to set up you have 135%. Most ppl in pvp get to 80%. So that’s exactly 1 tower and fortify. Good luck hitting through that you will do exactly 40-80 dmg. Good luck getting the 800.

And life no they do not need a upgrade. Sure it costs a ton of pips but it is designed as a emergency heal.

Death 30% is up to debate. You can use 3 juju and then hit. And it’s over. Player can’t do anything because even if he cleanses x3 his turns are up. So death is insane op wit juju.

Worst by far is fire with 6 traps. Since they don’t even contribute to damage, and most shields ppl and mobs use are glaciel -70% to fire
An Emergency Heal.

An Emergency Heal?

Can you explain in what universe taking the time to save 11-pips constitutes an emergency?

9-1-1
Yes, my Fire wizard just took a 4,000 point hit and needs medical attention immediately.
Yes, sir. Healing is on the way. Can he hang on for 5 more rounds?

My biggest problem with the Scion of Life is that for the same pip cost I can heal more with 3 Pigsies to the whole team. I can heal a whole heck of a lot more with Dryad. I can do nearly the same amount to the whole team for 4 less pips with Regeneration

Prior to Scion of Life, each new healing spell was just enough better than its' predecessor that the extra pip cost was justified. I'm not going to get into the detailed heal/pip cost analysis that I've done before. I will state that Scion of Life does not stack up to its' non-shadow magic kin.

I cannot speak to the other spells as Life is the only School I've played beyond level 20.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on the value of Scion of Life in its' current form.

S Gs
130

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1009
Fred Frost on Nov 25, 2018 wrote:
I can see what you are saying, the spells should have hard requirements to be met to do double the damage. I agree that no one not even storm should be able to just one shot anyone in pvp. It is already insanely hard to vs a storm wizard from second when as soon as you use your blade for your hit they can just one shot you. I agree pvp should be more about strategy not who goes first shrike and can use a scion spell.
What? How insanely hard it is for an Ice to face Storm from second? Do you know how insanely hard it is for Storm to face any class from second with 5.2k hp? Especially Ice with its 8.9k hp and many offensive defensive spells? Storms Scion was already nerfed and is the ONLY Scion that does far less dpp than in class averages. It in no way needs yet another nerf especially not on account of a top tier class that might maybe lose from second from time to time now.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
150
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 26, 2018 wrote:
What? How insanely hard it is for an Ice to face Storm from second? Do you know how insanely hard it is for Storm to face any class from second with 5.2k hp? Especially Ice with its 8.9k hp and many offensive defensive spells? Storms Scion was already nerfed and is the ONLY Scion that does far less dpp than in class averages. It in no way needs yet another nerf especially not on account of a top tier class that might maybe lose from second from time to time now.
Even though my name is Fred Frost, it doesnt mean Im only speaking from an ice wizard perspective. I have other schools that I like to participate in ranked pvp on. I'm not saying the storm scion needs a nerf. But storm is not as weak as everyone makes them out to be. They are hard to beat and they are not as disadvantaged as everyone thinks. Yesterday I was vs a storm from second on my balance wizard and first round he got a shadow pip and did iron sultan, it took half my health, I shielded, next turn he rain beetled from his pet and I stun blocked, next round he got another shadow pip and iron sultan killed. The storm only needed 2 open hits on me to kill. Storm's damage is insane, it makes up for their low health. If a storm thinks they will lose the match they will insane bolt for 3000 damage and that most likely wins them the game, insane bolt hits the target more times then it hits the caster at about an 80% to 20% ratio. Even if the storm's insane bolt back fires the storm would have lost the match any way. I can not count how many times I have been winning vs a storm and the only way they can win is to insane bolt, and it works almost every time. Only a few times does insane bolt actually hit the caster with its 80% chance to hit the target and only 20% to hit the caster. (I am pretty sure this has been proven on wizard101 central the insane bolt percent chance)

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1009
Fred Frost on Nov 27, 2018 wrote:
Even though my name is Fred Frost, it doesnt mean Im only speaking from an ice wizard perspective. I have other schools that I like to participate in ranked pvp on. I'm not saying the storm scion needs a nerf. But storm is not as weak as everyone makes them out to be. They are hard to beat and they are not as disadvantaged as everyone thinks. Yesterday I was vs a storm from second on my balance wizard and first round he got a shadow pip and did iron sultan, it took half my health, I shielded, next turn he rain beetled from his pet and I stun blocked, next round he got another shadow pip and iron sultan killed. The storm only needed 2 open hits on me to kill. Storm's damage is insane, it makes up for their low health. If a storm thinks they will lose the match they will insane bolt for 3000 damage and that most likely wins them the game, insane bolt hits the target more times then it hits the caster at about an 80% to 20% ratio. Even if the storm's insane bolt back fires the storm would have lost the match any way. I can not count how many times I have been winning vs a storm and the only way they can win is to insane bolt, and it works almost every time. Only a few times does insane bolt actually hit the caster with its 80% chance to hit the target and only 20% to hit the caster. (I am pretty sure this has been proven on wizard101 central the insane bolt percent chance)
Yes , storm has improved its tier recently and is now upper mid tier. However, it is still not a top tier school like Ice and balance. All of the situations you cite require luck. Insane bolt is an 80-20 chance but usually requires multiple casts to win a match and if it backfires its a straight loss. Storm is just about the only school that's required to cast a potentially self fatal spell to stand a chance from second or they simply lose as you yourself noted. For the shadow hit scenario, the same thing would happen to a storm as well. Ive lost to balances who use first round gaze to stun to sandworm. Same thing with 2 open hits.

However , back to the topic at hand - I am glad you agree that the Stirm Scion does not need a nerf, I happen to agree the Ice Scion needs a buff- when it was test I suggested 80% or more health rather than 90.

Defender
Sep 30, 2018
127
Lukeskywalker1313 on Nov 25, 2018 wrote:
The Sion spells are fine when you consider fact they are old magic,now it is a stretch but old magic is not refined and is as such harder to use and lacks effiancy.

They are primordial spells from battle bee that are like thousand of years old. They are of course not efficant compared to our normal spells.

Ice does not need a fix, have you tried to do 800 damage to an ice with 70% resist spamming tower, and fortify? It’s not possible even with shrike. Shrike gives 50% piece the highest a wiz can have is 40% with gear, 15 with pierce enchant, and max 20 with aura.

So in best shape which is almost impossible to set up you have 135%. Most ppl in pvp get to 80%. So that’s exactly 1 tower and fortify. Good luck hitting through that you will do exactly 40-80 dmg. Good luck getting the 800.

And life no they do not need a upgrade. Sure it costs a ton of pips but it is designed as a emergency heal.

Death 30% is up to debate. You can use 3 juju and then hit. And it’s over. Player can’t do anything because even if he cleanses x3 his turns are up. So death is insane op wit juju.

Worst by far is fire with 6 traps. Since they don’t even contribute to damage, and most shields ppl and mobs use are glaciel -70% to fire
Emergency Heal? a 12 pip waste on an emergency heal lol your comments against life just shows you dont want them to be more broken than death :D tough luck with juju. A rebirth would be a better heal in an emergency in case your wondering. You really need to make a life fam.

Defender
Sep 30, 2018
127
Fred Frost on Nov 27, 2018 wrote:
Even though my name is Fred Frost, it doesnt mean Im only speaking from an ice wizard perspective. I have other schools that I like to participate in ranked pvp on. I'm not saying the storm scion needs a nerf. But storm is not as weak as everyone makes them out to be. They are hard to beat and they are not as disadvantaged as everyone thinks. Yesterday I was vs a storm from second on my balance wizard and first round he got a shadow pip and did iron sultan, it took half my health, I shielded, next turn he rain beetled from his pet and I stun blocked, next round he got another shadow pip and iron sultan killed. The storm only needed 2 open hits on me to kill. Storm's damage is insane, it makes up for their low health. If a storm thinks they will lose the match they will insane bolt for 3000 damage and that most likely wins them the game, insane bolt hits the target more times then it hits the caster at about an 80% to 20% ratio. Even if the storm's insane bolt back fires the storm would have lost the match any way. I can not count how many times I have been winning vs a storm and the only way they can win is to insane bolt, and it works almost every time. Only a few times does insane bolt actually hit the caster with its 80% chance to hit the target and only 20% to hit the caster. (I am pretty sure this has been proven on wizard101 central the insane bolt percent chance)
Bad resist, poor deck set up and side tc spells contributed to this loss mate. Balance only needs to set shield a storm and spam lore master easy win. As for that 80%-20% percent ratio that in fact is a myth conceivably made up by k i
its either a make or miss i called it the 50/50 chance. Balance has access to so many utilities spells its not even funny. The fact that storm got a shadow on the first time shows just how unbalanced the game can be but if it was the other way around and you had a shadow on first try going first you would have ended that storm in a heartbeat. RNG right?

Defender
Sep 30, 2018
127
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 27, 2018 wrote:
Yes , storm has improved its tier recently and is now upper mid tier. However, it is still not a top tier school like Ice and balance. All of the situations you cite require luck. Insane bolt is an 80-20 chance but usually requires multiple casts to win a match and if it backfires its a straight loss. Storm is just about the only school that's required to cast a potentially self fatal spell to stand a chance from second or they simply lose as you yourself noted. For the shadow hit scenario, the same thing would happen to a storm as well. Ive lost to balances who use first round gaze to stun to sandworm. Same thing with 2 open hits.

However , back to the topic at hand - I am glad you agree that the Stirm Scion does not need a nerf, I happen to agree the Ice Scion needs a buff- when it was test I suggested 80% or more health rather than 90.
Any changes to put storm and #1 top tier spot for a year would be fine to me. especially giving them access to a better dot. than a TC hound, i wanna see this school be feard once more again by all classes as when dark moor first came out before jade meta and resist pets.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
150
angellifeheart on Nov 28, 2018 wrote:
Bad resist, poor deck set up and side tc spells contributed to this loss mate. Balance only needs to set shield a storm and spam lore master easy win. As for that 80%-20% percent ratio that in fact is a myth conceivably made up by k i
its either a make or miss i called it the 50/50 chance. Balance has access to so many utilities spells its not even funny. The fact that storm got a shadow on the first time shows just how unbalanced the game can be but if it was the other way around and you had a shadow on first try going first you would have ended that storm in a heartbeat. RNG right?
I don't consider my stats and deck set up bad, my balance wizard has 1800 rank. I have the normal resist for balance at 55%. I'm not saying storm is overpowered nor am I saying balance is weak, but what I am saying is that storm is not at all a bad school for pvp like so many people think. They are a upper mid tear as stated by Eric Stormbringer. It is not hard for a storm to beat a balance especially if they are first. Simple lore spam does not work against an experienced storm player, the storm I was vs had the standard balance ice fire ward pet, giving him 72% balance resist along with 131 flat resist, trying to just spam lore would result in a loss as lore does nothing without shrike, and when hitting through a tower shield it does 400 tops. I would be wasting my pips while the storm is building pips, I need to shrike to deal with 70% balance resist from second. When I shrike I am open for a hit that does half my health. The storm doesnt need to use a shadow pip or round to shrike because my 55% resist is nothing to him. My point is not to call for a nerf, I'm just stating that storm is not as disadvantaged as everyone seem to think. They are right behind the top tear schools, fire, balance and ice. Storm is upper mid tear, the forth best school for max pvp and can hold its own against balance. As for the insane bolt chance the May 2011 update notes state "the odds of self-destructing with the insane bolt are 20%" this is right off the update notes, written by Kingsisle them selves. The link to them so you can see for your self is: https://www.wizard101.com/game/update-notes/may2011