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Training points. KI could we get an answer?

2
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jun 23, 2009
16
I agree. 7350 crowns is an INSANE, OUTRAGEOUS, AND LOCO price for buying back a few training points. People make mistakes. It's in human nature. What KI should do is respect that and give us ONE free buy back, then we have to pay after the first one. Sounds good to everyone, eh?

Blaze Thundertalon
Master of Storm lvl 49

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
ShiroTagachi898 wrote:
I agree. 7350 crowns is an INSANE, OUTRAGEOUS, AND LOCO price for buying back a few training points. People make mistakes. It's in human nature. What KI should do is respect that and give us ONE free buy back, then we have to pay after the first one. Sounds good to everyone, eh?

Blaze Thundertalon
Master of Storm lvl 49

Actually even if they gave a free one the prize would still be outrages. Personally I like the ideas i already posted with either giving subscribers a free respec per month as they are already paying or make it avalible to respec for gold.

The one free respec wouldn't solve much unless they did this every time they add and a new world and spells.

Survivor
Aug 07, 2008
21
Mordikay wrote:
ShiroTagachi898 wrote:
I agree. 7350 crowns is an INSANE, OUTRAGEOUS, AND LOCO price for buying back a few training points. People make mistakes. It's in human nature. What KI should do is respect that and give us ONE free buy back, then we have to pay after the first one. Sounds good to everyone, eh?

Blaze Thundertalon
Master of Storm lvl 49

Actually even if they gave a free one the prize would still be outrages. Personally I like the ideas i already posted with either giving subscribers a free respec per month as they are already paying or make it avalible to respec for gold.

The one free respec wouldn't solve much unless they did this every time they add and a new world and spells.


I support 100% on this idea

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Cryroth wrote:
Mordikay wrote:
ShiroTagachi898 wrote:
I agree. 7350 crowns is an INSANE, OUTRAGEOUS, AND LOCO price for buying back a few training points. People make mistakes. It's in human nature. What KI should do is respect that and give us ONE free buy back, then we have to pay after the first one. Sounds good to everyone, eh?

Blaze Thundertalon
Master of Storm lvl 49

Actually even if they gave a free one the prize would still be outrages. Personally I like the ideas i already posted with either giving subscribers a free respec per month as they are already paying or make it avalible to respec for gold.

The one free respec wouldn't solve much unless they did this every time they add and a new world and spells.


I support 100% on this idea


Then spread the word and some day like the other things we might get this aswell.

Squire
Aug 12, 2009
594
Well, then here's a suggestion: Don't use any training points, ever. KingsIsle could have made it so you couldn't LEARN any school but your own, but they didn't. KingsIsle is always looking for ways to improve the game, and if, as you say, the 'Optimal deck' can only be achieved through the purpose of Respecing every year, well, I'm sure the PVP crowd will not care and do it over and over again.

As it is, the 6 points are MORE THAN ENOUGH for PVE. Non-Life schools can easily get by with Sun to Gargantuan (4 points), Amplify or Vengeance (1 point) and Treant Polymorph (1 point). It's only the PVP Crowd that needs 'more'. Life wizards should get Empowerment aura instead of Treant Polymorph.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Johnist wrote:
Well, then here's a suggestion: Don't use any training points, ever. KingsIsle could have made it so you couldn't LEARN any school but your own, but they didn't. KingsIsle is always looking for ways to improve the game, and if, as you say, the 'Optimal deck' can only be achieved through the purpose of Respecing every year, well, I'm sure the PVP crowd will not care and do it over and over again.

As it is, the 6 points are MORE THAN ENOUGH for PVE. Non-Life schools can easily get by with Sun to Gargantuan (4 points), Amplify or Vengeance (1 point) and Treant Polymorph (1 point). It's only the PVP Crowd that needs 'more'. Life wizards should get Empowerment aura instead of Treant Polymorph.

Yes any pvp player will think this is an essential part of the game and any mmo game for that matter.

Personally i want the optimal deck all the time for pve and pvp.

Yes we got 6 more with CL and i wouldn't quite spend them the way you did but each to his own. But the fundamental basics of each school changed so much that 6 points simply aint enough to place them for optimal deck building.

Also this will continue to be a problem as i mentioned each time they add new spells, worlds, gear. All this is not counting what i would guess would be a vast amount of players who made a simple human mistake or at thier time in the game simply didn't know better.

Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
15
I doubt you will get an answer from KI on this. KI likes to reply when the answer is easy and/or when they can just post a reply with copy/paste from terms of use but they do not particularly like to reply when the players are correct and them being correct means losing money. No offense KI but I wholeheartedly agree with this dude. I don't care about pvp in the slightest but I been playing for years now and now that celestia is here I can't learn all of my new school spells. Why you may ask? Because I spent those points towards the beginning of 2009 and am being told I have to pay what $30 to retrain? the canned response is of course:

You have the option of deleting your wizard that was years in the making and starting over. We here at KI want your money now give it to us or you are just up chocolate river without a popsicle stick!

KI even if the answer is "No because we don't feel like it." give us an answer.

Oh and btw I was supposed to deliver a message: On Christmas eve you will be visited by 3 ghosts...

Explorer
Jun 15, 2009
82
well, i can proudly say, i have a new lowest lvl wizard on my list of wizards, it was lvl 50, now PROUDLY lvl 12

but not being a sheep and saying BAAAAA like a brainwashed "follower" might make BETTER changes

like the time KI released the option to buy 25,000 gold for 7100 crowns, problem was, they only receave 10,000 gold, howabout that one? hmmm, let's see here, THAT'S because people stood up and addressed being ripped off! now, it is 10,000 gold for 7100 crowns, and this feature was corrected to be 25,000 gold for 15,000 crowns and both read the way it was intended and are in perfect working order (personally i recommend farming up some CL gear in minutes to get that gold ...)

let's just get stuck repeatedly and trashed and like it to and not fight back like a good little dog, the strategy about 6 new points being all you need works for a lot of people, personally on my storm i can agree, BUUUUUT, that is the point HERE, to get WHAT WORKS FOR THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, and not have spells shifted, added, removed and returned so much so that you could have easily respected 4 times by the time they added the cards back onto the archivist, and not be forced to spend real money because someone messed with there customer's playing practice, DUH DUDE!, sorry i feel so strongly here, but guess what! if not everyone likes this one, or me for standing against this new fee trickery, boo hoo! 8)

don't be a brainwashed sheep

Explorer
Jun 15, 2009
82
i did forget to add, because i was forced to delete my first grand ever, to replace is and all that wizard's progress and everything i went through on it, you will and will FOREVER have one, shining, black, star, at the far right end of ANYTHING i ever choose to rate from KI (not limited to Wizard101), that is a final rating that will not change from this day forward, 4=4, 5=4, one black star, is reserved at the far right, forever, i am done responding in this post now

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
I'm glad people are still responding here and that this even though rather long winded post is still getting attention. Soon 1k views and could become the most viwed post on the forums.

Guess it means i ws onto something with this thread.

Survivor
Dec 19, 2009
12
I have to agree with the concept of making respecs cost in game gold and not crowns. This is a very important feature. The typical player comes into the game blind essentially. They have no idea what class does what, nor do they know good combinations. I love the game, but I would never remake a character, nor would I pay that much money to fully enjoy a game that I ALREADY pay for.

I'll be fully honest. I could spend 10$ a month on this game which is incomplete to say the best, and then have to pay more real money for mounts, respecs etc. OR I could go play some WoW for an extra 5$ and guess what? All of those things are costing me only in game gold or some time. Soooooo your move KI.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
@Starwind. Yes i already mentioned that this is a standard feature of every other mmo games for the past 10 years also one of the reasons i belive it would be a better marketing strategy for KI to change this.

Imo this would benifit not only the players but also KI on long terms(and that's what you want to do with and mmo or no more money rolling in).

Survivor
Apr 30, 2010
36
Mordikay wrote:
This has been posted mutiple times by many many players in various sections of the msg board but there has never even been a hint of a response.

With the comming of CL, new spells, ect ect i'm sure i'm not alone on this that I want to respec my training to optimize my deck.

As a pvp player i find this extremly important. Even for non pvp players, people who've accedently trained the wrong spell or whatever it might be equally important.

At the current rate i have to pay over 7000(whaa?) crowns in order to respec my training points. Seriously this over more then 3 months subscribtion which is quite frankly a ripoff to put it mildly.

so here's a question to KI, could we have the possibility of buying our training point back for gold or something else? To be totally Honest subscribers should not even have to spend crowns to do this as we are already paying each month.

Also note this is a standard feature of every single mmo game for the past 10 years and you want to charge over 3 months worth in crowns? Don't you think the parrents are already getting begged enough for crowns from thier kids for mounts and what not. Doesn't even matter if you are a parrent, kid or just a regular player that likes Wizard the price is out of this world and it's on top of already paying subscribtion.

Personally i don't care care if you make so it cost 100.000 gold or more to retrain as long as we have the possibility that's not the current option.

Thanks in advance (if you answer).

Sorry if this pops up 2 times. I saw it got posted yesterday by myself and when i went in to edit some spelling errors it didn't get reposted.


I think that the point in putting crowns on training points is to make money. :P, i mean KI knows we will make the money adn wont buy crowns anymore. So the chances of them changing the purchase to gold is unlikely.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
chrone811 wrote:
Mordikay wrote:
This has been posted mutiple times by many many players in various sections of the msg board but there has never even been a hint of a response.

With the comming of CL, new spells, ect ect i'm sure i'm not alone on this that I want to respec my training to optimize my deck.

As a pvp player i find this extremly important. Even for non pvp players, people who've accedently trained the wrong spell or whatever it might be equally important.

At the current rate i have to pay over 7000(whaa?) crowns in order to respec my training points. Seriously this over more then 3 months subscribtion which is quite frankly a ripoff to put it mildly.

so here's a question to KI, could we have the possibility of buying our training point back for gold or something else? To be totally Honest subscribers should not even have to spend crowns to do this as we are already paying each month.

Also note this is a standard feature of every single mmo game for the past 10 years and you want to charge over 3 months worth in crowns? Don't you think the parrents are already getting begged enough for crowns from thier kids for mounts and what not. Doesn't even matter if you are a parrent, kid or just a regular player that likes Wizard the price is out of this world and it's on top of already paying subscribtion.

Personally i don't care care if you make so it cost 100.000 gold or more to retrain as long as we have the possibility that's not the current option.

Thanks in advance (if you answer).

Sorry if this pops up 2 times. I saw it got posted yesterday by myself and when i went in to edit some spelling errors it didn't get reposted.


I think that the point in putting crowns on training points is to make money. :P, i mean KI knows we will make the money adn wont buy crowns anymore. So the chances of them changing the purchase to gold is unlikely.

Just as an fyi. Mmo games make 90% of thier money on subscribtions.

Falling being on what is todays (even many years) standard mmo game features or losing players due to bad game design over frustration will cost them more then the very few(i can't imagen anyone would do this atm with the insane prize) that actually buys crowns for this.

Survivor
Apr 30, 2010
36
Mordikay wrote:
chrone811 wrote:
Mordikay wrote:
This has been posted mutiple times by many many players in various sections of the msg board but there has never even been a hint of a response.

With the comming of CL, new spells, ect ect i'm sure i'm not alone on this that I want to respec my training to optimize my deck.

As a pvp player i find this extremly important. Even for non pvp players, people who've accedently trained the wrong spell or whatever it might be equally important.

At the current rate i have to pay over 7000(whaa?) crowns in order to respec my training points. Seriously this over more then 3 months subscribtion which is quite frankly a ripoff to put it mildly.

so here's a question to KI, could we have the possibility of buying our training point back for gold or something else? To be totally Honest subscribers should not even have to spend crowns to do this as we are already paying each month.

Also note this is a standard feature of every single mmo game for the past 10 years and you want to charge over 3 months worth in crowns? Don't you think the parrents are already getting begged enough for crowns from thier kids for mounts and what not. Doesn't even matter if you are a parrent, kid or just a regular player that likes Wizard the price is out of this world and it's on top of already paying subscribtion.

Personally i don't care care if you make so it cost 100.000 gold or more to retrain as long as we have the possibility that's not the current option.

Thanks in advance (if you answer).

Sorry if this pops up 2 times. I saw it got posted yesterday by myself and when i went in to edit some spelling errors it didn't get reposted.


I think that the point in putting crowns on training points is to make money. :P, i mean KI knows we will make the money adn wont buy crowns anymore. So the chances of them changing the purchase to gold is unlikely.

Just as an fyi. Mmo games make 90% of thier money on subscribtions.

Falling being on what is todays (even many years) standard mmo game features or losing players due to bad game design over frustration will cost them more then the very few(i can't imagen anyone would do this atm with the insane prize) that actually buys crowns for this.


On the contrary, I have hundreds of people who tell me they retrain their training points. More people are probably also doing this, it seems small cash for KI, but its extra cash either way. I mean would you give up extra cash?

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
You know 100's of people spending a minimum of 15 dollars each time to respec thier training points?

Friends list ain't even that big let alone to maintain a friendship with over 100 people.

Now i don't want to call you a liar but i highly doubt your statement is true.

And as i said that extra cash will go away in subscribstion if the playerbase is unhappy with the system and stop playing.

I still remain convinced that this is a bad marketing plan for KI and i still find the prize outrages and overall bad game mechanics to have to pay irl cash for a feature such as respeccing for all the reasons i've already listed.

Survivor
Dec 19, 2009
12
chrone811 wrote:
Mordikay wrote:
chrone811 wrote:
Mordikay wrote:
This has been posted mutiple times by many many players in various sections of the msg board but there has never even been a hint of a response.

With the comming of CL, new spells, ect ect i'm sure i'm not alone on this that I want to respec my training to optimize my deck.

As a pvp player i find this extremly important. Even for non pvp players, people who've accedently trained the wrong spell or whatever it might be equally important.

At the current rate i have to pay over 7000(whaa?) crowns in order to respec my training points. Seriously this over more then 3 months subscribtion which is quite frankly a ripoff to put it mildly.

so here's a question to KI, could we have the possibility of buying our training point back for gold or something else? To be totally Honest subscribers should not even have to spend crowns to do this as we are already paying each month.

Also note this is a standard feature of every single mmo game for the past 10 years and you want to charge over 3 months worth in crowns? Don't you think the parrents are already getting begged enough for crowns from thier kids for mounts and what not. Doesn't even matter if you are a parrent, kid or just a regular player that likes Wizard the price is out of this world and it's on top of already paying subscribtion.

Personally i don't care care if you make so it cost 100.000 gold or more to retrain as long as we have the possibility that's not the current option.

Thanks in advance (if you answer).

Sorry if this pops up 2 times. I saw it got posted yesterday by myself and when i went in to edit some spelling errors it didn't get reposted.


I think that the point in putting crowns on training points is to make money. :P, i mean KI knows we will make the money adn wont buy crowns anymore. So the chances of them changing the purchase to gold is unlikely.

Just as an fyi. Mmo games make 90% of thier money on subscribtions.

Falling being on what is todays (even many years) standard mmo game features or losing players due to bad game design over frustration will cost them more then the very few(i can't imagen anyone would do this atm with the insane prize) that actually buys crowns for this.


On the contrary, I have hundreds of people who tell me they retrain their training points. More people are probably also doing this, it seems small cash for KI, but its extra cash either way. I mean would you give up extra cash?


Yes but all that cash goes away when I and people like myself stop playing this incomplete game for one that is better graphically, and more player friendly, with an even more intense storyline. This game offers very little freedom and little to no end game playability. I like the idea, but the sad reality is that this is a rip off, and other people see this. Those defending paying with crowns clearly have not wanted to respec, or they have that kind of spare cash in this current economy. That is the only logical reasoning for saying that they like it. To those saying that it won't change because KI likes money. Then give them reason to change it. Petitions are easy to start, and with enough E-signatures they would see that the people want their game played their way.

Explorer
Jun 15, 2009
82
sorry bout the strong feeling toward this feature so far in the post, i should probobly lighten up on that :(

but i have info also that i have to say might be needed as a good example in addition as to why this feature should be gold only for subscribers, it is Varifyed, more worlds are coming...

(more spells, more resetting for those into this type of feature), i see nothing but bad news and dark clouds on the way if this feature is left crowns for all (subscribers and crowns by area players) and not revamped to reflect these new additions by giving subscribers the option to use gold only, you KI will also find people possibly BECOMING subscribers for this feature ALONE off a store bought card? are you seriously not seeing that math? (nothing mean ment there, but take ANOTHER look at those numbers) it's not even looking like greed anymore, it's looking like an extreamly poor planned interface desing with the side effect of massive price gougeing at this point if anything... and will only get worse, the crowns for training points in it's current and futer state is an extreamly poor design, bottom line, it can't be buttered up no matter how hardcore you try sorry, IT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE, it's broken! please fix this messed up/hodgepodged feature.

you want more subscribers, alright, run the numbers as to how many might BECOME at least a one month subscriber for such a feature, continue on past there previously accessed areas, and even when THAT subscription is up, they will look back at where they where BEFORE, and what it will take in crowns to go to where they left off and boom! you have one more "happy subscriber", and maybe it will KEEP them as subscribers based on the many bennefits there is to being one, do it for yourselves even you guys, if that isn't an actuall buisness plan that can help like, ANYONE, then i must be in the twilight zone, what did you guys base this game's marketing consept on anyway? you guys have been making MASSIVE improvements to the games fun factor, do the right thing and improve this over priced, kid targeted, fee!

still can't butter it up sry

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Now i haven't played wizard as long as some of you posting in this thread may have but i've been playing mmo's since the first one came out 16 years ago (Ultima Online) and granted back then there wasn't even such a thing as respeccing but you could still change the way your character was build up.

I have been working in this field a bit and also as such a long time player of mmo games and having played like 90% of those ever made i have followed the progress and mechanics of such for...well 16 years now. I may now have been into game design and theorycraft as much back then as i am now but i can tell you and KI from what i've seen over the years that lacking a feature such as this is bound to cause frustration and eminent loss of players.

I know this game was and probably is originally designed for a younger crowd and labeled as a family game but this still doesn't mean a feature like this should be missing.

I'm possitive there is a lot of players like me who used to play the more "hardcore" mmo games out there but found enjoyment in wizard and the potential it could offer in the form of highly strategised pvp with the added nostalgy of cardgames such as Magic the gathering from thier youth.

I myself have played 3 wizards up from 1-60 besides my main wizard since CL came outand been extremly carefull on the planning of how to use my training point on those 3. In fact i was quite carefull on my main (actually i don't want to call it my main anymore as it was just my first but due to this lacking feature i just use it for crafting now as i find it far from optimized now). I didn't feel i was spending my training point wrong when i made my first wizard actually i planned it quite well but the training points was spend in order of how tactics was before CL came and then after tactics on how to make your wizard optimized changed completly after CL on what spells are more effective and so on.

As Beta, others and myself already mentioned we already know many more things are to change in wizard with atleast the comming of 4 worlds. There have already been new spells (also in the form of treasure spells even) post the update that CL came with even though they were minor compared to the total revamp CL brought but it still matters.

With 4 more worlds and probably more comming looking at the development of wizard101 so far, what DS, CL ect ect brought I feel pretty secure in assuming there will be added new spells, gear, pet talents, more crafted stuff and probably more stuff like gardening ect.

We already know this is comming and the assumptions that it will impact things as much as CL did are pretty well founded and so this need will be ever more growing. Personally i will not remake 4 wizards especially not if the lvl cap is going to increase more and if i feel i cannot play my charsin the optimized way that i like...I will not be playing anymore.

By the looks of it i'm not the only one sharing these views or atleast some of them and feel there is need for this to change. I don't mind the idea that you can buy special cosmetic or things to boost your lvling via crowns but that being said respecs does not belong in this category and especially not for this current outrages prize.

Survivor
Aug 27, 2010
18
yah, we should be able to buy back training points with gold no matter how much. not just training points either, why should we pay real money to get crowns to buy stuff in the game, nothing we buy in the game will effect us in real life, its all virtual. its basicly paying for something that you wont ever be able to use outside of the game. paying real money for a subscription is fine but not for things like a pet. i mean the pets are pretty expensive, you could buy some real pets with the money you pay to get a pet in wizard 101. or we should be able to buy crowns with gold or get crowns some other way that isnt the inviting a friend thing, i tried the invite a friend thing like a million and one times but nothing ever happened and i never got any crowns . so back to the training points. please make some other way to get crowns( like i said before, not the invire friend thing) like buying crowns with gold or winning them in battles(even if they are hard to get in battles) or even getting them from quests. my parents dont like to buy crowns so i am not able to have stuff i can get with crowns. do something about this, i would like to buy back train points with gold not crowns. i could use the train points for other schools, i would appreciate it.

Explorer
Mar 24, 2009
58
Here's an idea that maybe could be considered as a nice compromise. Keep the buybacks crowns only, but instead, let us CHOOSE which spells we'd like to get training points back for.

For example, I have a Level 60 Storm character who's completed the life school and has up to Feint on Death. I also have a few Star and Mutate Spells. Now let's say that I'm not too happy with the 3 Mutate Spells I spent training points on. (And I'm not. I think we should be able to make treasure cards out of them. Without that ability, the spells are worthless) Instead of spending over 7000 crowns to get that back, I could spend 840 crowns removing the 3 spells I want to get rid of instead of 7000 to just change a couple of spells.

Now let's say I wanted to change from life to ice. That would be more expensive as I'd have to get rid of all the spells. But even at 8 spells, that's only 2,200 or so crowns. Basically the price of a Mega-Snack pack or 1/3rd the price.

I think this is a MORE than fair compromise. Anyone else think so?

2