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Gambling has no place in a family game, KI

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Nov 14, 2010
62
Dear KI, there is a lot of talk about the new dragon’s hoard pack and in many people’s view it has introduced a new form of gambling into the game, and encouraged a lot of unpleasant behavior There is a flood of posts on this but these posts were not made in the feedback section, and I think it’s important for you to be aware of the negative impact of each introduction of gambling into the game, so I am posting some links and some quotes here in this forum. It’s quite a response in such a short time.

I don’t mean to say you shouldn’t sell the items. Sell them, but please, don’t make kids gamble to get them. Gambling is completely inappropriate in a game marketed to kids, as young as 10, and your company says that many players are quite a bit younger. I realize that you cannot control everything that goes on in the game, and parents have to oversee their children. However, this is something you control. Your corporate choice to market these items to kids via gambling vs. purchase speaks worlds to parents about where your priorities

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
crystalfiod2 wrote:
Dear KI, there is a lot of talk about the new dragons hoard pack and in many peoples view it has introduced a new form of gambling into the game, and encouraged a lot of unpleasant behavior There is a flood of posts on this but these posts were not made in the feedback section, and I think its important for you to be aware of the negative impact of each introduction of gambling into the game, so I am posting some links and some quotes here in this forum. Its quite a response in such a short time. I dont mean to say you shouldnt sell the items. Sell them, but please, dont make kids gamble to get them.
i don't know what kids are gambling to get the money to buy these packs as you're suggesting, but you can't hold KI responsible for how people pay for their crowns. They are in no way promoting gambling! -etherchaos

Survivor
Jul 02, 2009
11
I was so excited after seeing the bone mount in game, I couldnt wait, there was no info on it updated and so I decided to post, then shortly after I see they added the pack. I thought to myself yay, I can spend some crowns on the item and boom OWN it. How very wrong I was.. not only could I SPEND all my crowns over and over again. I would probably never ever get the mount. So it became like farming anything, only now instead of my precious time I am spending all my precious money too! There is something just not write about that. It IS a gamble. and they're truly turning into vampires. I thought they could set themselves apart from other hungry mmos, but they cant. its sad, are they hurting so much for money, they didnt make any money off the amulets and now they're scrambling to come out with something new every week? you have to ask yourself, are they struggling seriously? How could this be? I can only tell you.. that I, my husband, and our children have decided to say good bye to Wizard 101 and we're cancelling our accounts. we might pick it up again when it becomes like any other mmo and disappears into the fabric of the internet.. or when the hackers take it over.. becuz like all things.. this game wont last forever.

Explorer
Jan 17, 2010
77
Um.....you forget there are other gambles in the game?.....What do you think fighting bosses 10k times is? Not like they always drop exactly what you want. There are also other packs. Plus with the high success rate it has it is no where near a gamble.

A gamble will generally generate small rewards for great sums of money. Once in a while a big reward drops but thats once in a while.

Dragon's Hoard isn't anywhere near that much......its about a 1/3 and the dragon would probably be about 1/15......it really isnt that much.

Now i spent 20k crowns and got about the worth of 200k to 300k crowns out of it.

If KI were to add them in the crown shop or make a few char somewhere probably in DS and ask the normal.....well if you want to spend that much guess you could have that choice.

But do know that almost everything in the game is a Gamble: Bazaar, Monsters, Bosses, Drops, Decks, Packs, Crown Shop(having stuff, I have a few things that are no longer sold), and Even if the game would get anymore updates would also be a gamble.....maybe KI will just all of the sudden quit.


Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Gambling?

Ever hear of Trading Cards? Like BaseBall, or Bubble Gum, etc...

You get cards in a pack... Some are valuable, others are not... This is the exact same concept...

So, how on earth can you say this is gambling?

Some people have a warped point of view...

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2645
If this new pack is considered gambling, then we must consider baseball cards sold at your local retailer as gambling too. You don't get to pick which player you get in those cards either. Come on fellow wizards, these complaints are getting worse it seems and it probably turns off the folks at KI who are reviewing these forums for real issues (or at least takes longer).

By all means, come on the forums and leave your feedback of the new packs (like or dislike), but complaining that it teaches gambling or is an ISSUE that should be fixed is a bit much. Is the issue the packs or the reaction from players? Since, to me, an issue with the pack is if an item is not being "dropped" at all from the packs or has the wrong stats. If you didn't get what you wanted from the pack, well guess what you don't get what you want from some bosses either, so this game is probably not for you (it is your decision to spend real money to take that chance). Did you receive a new item from the pack that others want? Well your probably going to experience begging as some kids have not learned the proper way to overcome jealously. This is a social MMO game with real humans behind the wizard avatars.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
Necromancia wrote:
I was so excited after seeing the bone mount in game, I couldnt wait, there was no info on it updated and so I decided to post, then shortly after I see they added the pack. I thought to myself yay, I can spend some crowns on the item and boom OWN it. How very wrong I was.. not only could I SPEND all my crowns over and over again. I would probably never ever get the mount. So it became like farming anything, only now instead of my precious time I am spending all my precious money too! There is something just not write about that. It IS a gamble. and they're truly turning into vampires. I thought they could set themselves apart from other hungry mmos, but they cant. its sad, are they hurting so much for money, they didnt make any money off the amulets and now they're scrambling to come out with something new every week? you have to ask yourself, are they struggling seriously? How could this be? I can only tell you.. that I, my husband, and our children have decided to say good bye to Wizard 101 and we're cancelling our accounts. we might pick it up again when it becomes like any other mmo and disappears into the fabric of the internet.. or when the hackers take it over.. becuz like all things.. this game wont last forever.


We are talking about a mount with 40% speed the same speed as all other best mounts several of which can be had for gold or rented with gold for a week at a time which I often do cause that is still a long time for twinty thousand gold.

My worry about the dragon pack was that it would offer ubber equipment that was better than what was obtainable in the game. After looking at the equipment I view all of it except maybe stuff that can be donned at lower levels inferior to the better in game equipment. Other games you can buy the best with cash and if you don't you just don't have the best stuff and can't get it. The only cash shop equipment item I see in the game that is better than everything else is the life force wand, which many of my friends have because it drops in the game. So then what does the dragon packs really offer that may make one weaker than those who don't buy it. I heard tale that the pets from those packs may have talents on them such as may cast balance blades and may cast tower shields. May cast tower shields sounds way powerful to me. But then I think, these are pets and all one needs to do is mix their pets with those who have them to hopefully get whatever talents that are upon them for gold.

In short, if you are gambling on dragon pets its purely because you yourself are greedy as they offer nothing that imbalances the game or play that those without crowns can themselves obtain.

If people are calling this gambling and are upset about it, I think Wizard101 should add all dragon pack items to the crown shop. If you want to try your luck with dragon packs then do so. If you would rather spend a lot more and get the mount for crowns without any sort of gamble then also you should be able to do so.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2645
Necromancia wrote:
I was so excited after seeing the bone mount in game, I couldnt wait, there was no info on it updated and so I decided to post, then shortly after I see they added the pack. I thought to myself yay, I can spend some crowns on the item and boom OWN it. How very wrong I was.. not only could I SPEND all my crowns over and over again. I would probably never ever get the mount.


The following link has been up for as long as the pack has been available. Just like in real life, proper research should always been done BEFORE any purchases with your hard-earned money.

https://www.wizard101.com/game/dragon-hoard-game-card-pack

Necromancia wrote:
I thought they could set themselves apart from other hungry mmos, but they cant. its sad, are they hurting so much for money, they didnt make any money off the amulets and now they're scrambling to come out with something new every week? you have to ask yourself, are they struggling seriously? How could this be? I can only tell you.. that I, my husband, and our children have decided to say good bye to Wizard 101 and we're cancelling our accounts. we might pick it up again when it becomes like any other mmo and disappears into the fabric of the internet.. or when the hackers take it over.. becuz like all things.. this game wont last forever.


Every item in this pack has a gold or dropped alternative within the game itself at no extra charge. Even the Dragon Rider level 60 armor is not the best in the game. Everything in this new pack is purely cosmetic and is not neccesary to play the game. The shark mount is only available within the crown shop and the "second chance" boss chests work exactly the same way as this new pack. What's new that is turning you off from Wizard 101?

It's true, most MMOs are doing or have been doing this for a long time. The bad economy is hurting them too. Even the king of MMO's, World of Warcraft, uses the same exact selling tactics, but even charges five dollars more a month for subcription!! Console or single purchase games are your best bet for avoiding microtransactions these days.


Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
Its like pokemon or yu gi oh cards....

It isn't gambling at all.

People made this rumor as such because they didnt get anything good and they spent a lot of money and it's just people being jealous if you ask me.

Because they didn't get anything good and that they wasted all their crowns and other people have it they want to ruin it for everyone it's just be selfish if you ask me.

Defender
Jun 21, 2009
143
Just thought you'd wanna know that KI needs to pay thousands of employees and money's tough in a lot of places. Need I say more?

Squire
Aug 12, 2009
593
bome1 wrote:
Just thought you'd wanna know that KI needs to pay thousands of employees and money's tough in a lot of places. Need I say more?

KingsIsle only has a few hundred employees. They don't have 'Thousands' of employees.

I think somewhere I saw a statement from them that they had roughly 200-250 employees last June. Thousands? Where do you get your numbers? seriously... Fact check before posting please!

As to the subject at hand, I'm sorry, but that's the random nature of packs. Ask any Trading Card Game player or collector. At least the way KingsIsle has it, they can't put the Bone Dragon mount up for sale on another site and rip off your money by taking your money and not giving it to you. (Note: if you buy a bone dragon from any site, you're absolutely insane as there is no wizard-to-wizard item exchange!)

Would you have been this upset if they offered Real life trading cards, where each pack came with a code to get some random item in game? No, probably not, but then that would start the 3rd party sellers into high gear, getting the cards and selling them on 3rd party sites where KingsIsle is not responsible for the transactions on. Personally, I would love to see Wizard101 TCG go live with promotional codes in each pack... they could start off with the Eye of Bartleby pack, then introduce the other packs.

Out of nearly 20,000 crowns, i got 8 Crowns Dragon Pets (2 Sea Dragons (25,000 Crowns worth), 2 Utility, 3 Vigilant, 1 Assailant), 3 Dragon Wings (Permanent) mounts (Probably another 21,000 crowns worth), 2 Double-Handed balance swords (10,000 Crowns worth, one stitched with Lifeforce Blade stats) and a ton of gear across both my accounts. I think I'm only missing 1 piece of the Vigilant set, and 1 piece of the Assailant set... all in all, I'd say that I spent 20,000 crowns and out of all the loot netted approximately 80,000 crowns worth of gear and equipment... so yes, it is frustrating not getting what you want, but it's part of the game. Maybe they can make the packs available for 50,000 Gold each, but then again, 50,000 Gold is about an hour in Wintertusk.

Explorer
Mar 22, 2009
71
etherchaos wrote:
crystalfiod2 wrote:
Dear KI, there is a lot of talk about the new dragons hoard pack and in many peoples view it has introduced a new form of gambling into the game, and encouraged a lot of unpleasant behavior There is a flood of posts on this but these posts were not made in the feedback section, and I think its important for you to be aware of the negative impact of each introduction of gambling into the game, so I am posting some links and some quotes here in this forum. Its quite a response in such a short time. I dont mean to say you shouldnt sell the items. Sell them, but please, dont make kids gamble to get them.
i don't know what kids are gambling to get the money to buy these packs as you're suggesting, but you can't hold KI responsible for how people pay for their crowns. They are in no way promoting gambling! -etherchaos
No i think he means that they are spending there money hoping to get a dragon rider mount, and they are using all there money trying to get it, like when you try to win blackjack or poker.

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
crystalfiod2 wrote:
there is a lot of talk about the new dragon’s hoard pack and in many people’s view it has introduced a new form of gambling into the game


regardless of what a "lot of people" are saying (and it's not a lot, it's only a few in one forum thread", it is not gambling.

It's a pack of trading cards.

Let's put this into real world terms. Assume you go into any gaming store and buy a pack of cards for games like Magic the Gathering. You know you're going to get some cards. You know there's a very good chance that what you'll get are all the common cards and MAYBE you'll get one of the uncommons. Maybe you'll even get a rare card.

You buy a few packs, you open them, you find out that almost all the cards, or maybe even all the cards, are stuff you already have.

That's not gambling in real world terms, and it's not gambling on here. That's just how the law of averages PER PACK, not per pack bought, work out.

Like any other TRADING CARD GAME (did you forget that is what Wizard IS?) you get the cards you get when you open the pack.

And, also in real world terms, there ARE people who spend thousands of dollars on packs to get the ultra-rare cards. There are also people on here that do that. That is still not gambling.

And for those that thought they'd run off and buy a pack and get a dragon mount or something else, then got upset that they didn't - too bad. You knew up front (cause the page said) there was only a CHANCE, not a GUARANTEE, to get that ultra rare item in any pack. Stop complaining.

Defender
May 06, 2009
120
darthjt wrote:
Gambling?

Ever hear of Trading Cards? Like BaseBall, or Bubble Gum, etc...

You get cards in a pack... Some are valuable, others are not... This is the exact same concept...

So, how on earth can you say this is gambling?

Some people have a warped point of view...


It is but it isn't gambling. It is the slippery slope of gambling. Those that have a problem with gambling will understand, those that don't won't it is about that simple. I will try and explain it from both sides. It IS gambling because you are trying to get something that is very rare so you take a gamble every time you open that pack to get said item. It is NOT gambling because every time you open the pack you DO GET SOMETHING. I am playing another game at the same time I'm playing wizard101. In that game they do lotto's (same principle as these tradeing card packs) very heavly long long before any economic issues with the economy. So this concept is nothing new. It is what it is but because of these sorts of ploy's I have reached a decision a long time ago. I refuse to buy lotto's/random packs/etc. IF I choose to buy something I want what it is I am paying my money for, not a "chance" to get something I want or good odds to get something I don't want.

Delver
Mar 08, 2009
235
Buying a pack for the mount is not gambling, its a choice. They have warned you numerous times that this mount will be very hard to obtain. It was your choice to buy it. Its called randomness, nothing in life is 100% gaurenteed except taxes and death. If everything was 100% gaurenteed then you will see almost everyone in the game riding on top of the dragon mount. If you feel like this is gambling then I bet you never bought baseball cards or whatever kind of pack in real life. This pack is not a need, its a want. If your so angry about this new addition to the game then don't buy it, save some of your crowns, go do something else in the game that is more productive for you.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
steveheffner wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Gambling?

Ever hear of Trading Cards? Like BaseBall, or Bubble Gum, etc...

You get cards in a pack... Some are valuable, others are not... This is the exact same concept...

So, how on earth can you say this is gambling?

Some people have a warped point of view...


It is but it isn't gambling. It is the slippery slope of gambling. Those that have a problem with gambling will understand, those that don't won't it is about that simple. I will try and explain it from both sides. It IS gambling because you are trying to get something that is very rare so you take a gamble every time you open that pack to get said item. It is NOT gambling because every time you open the pack you DO GET SOMETHING. I am playing another game at the same time I'm playing wizard101. In that game they do lotto's (same principle as these tradeing card packs) very heavly long long before any economic issues with the economy. So this concept is nothing new. It is what it is but because of these sorts of ploy's I have reached a decision a long time ago. I refuse to buy lotto's/random packs/etc. IF I choose to buy something I want what it is I am paying my money for, not a "chance" to get something I want or good odds to get something I don't want.


We all have the ability to choose to buy something, or choose not to buy...

Now, a lotto, is gambling... You take a chance and can get nothing in return...

In this specific case, you know what you are buying before hand, you also know that each pack is different and may or may not hold the cards you want... Same as any baseball or trading card packs... Sometimes you get the exact cards you want and sometimes you don't... However, you choose to buy them, knowing you might not get the cards you want...

But, you do get stuff, therfore, it is not gambling, you are simply making a purchase of cards...


Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
chatter2000 wrote:
etherchaos wrote:
crystalfiod2 wrote:
Dear KI, there is a lot of talk about the new dragons hoard pack and in many peoples view it has introduced a new form of gambling into the game, and encouraged a lot of unpleasant behavior There is a flood of posts on this but these posts were not made in the feedback section, and I think its important for you to be aware of the negative impact of each introduction of gambling into the game, so I am posting some links and some quotes here in this forum. Its quite a response in such a short time. I dont mean to say you shouldnt sell the items. Sell them, but please, dont make kids gamble to get them.
i don't know what kids are gambling to get the money to buy these packs as you're suggesting, but you can't hold KI responsible for how people pay for their crowns. They are in no way promoting gambling! -etherchaos
No i think he means that they are spending there money hoping to get a dragon rider mount, and they are using all there money trying to get it, like when you try to win blackjack or poker.


I can see that as being a problem, and can see why parents would become upset over their children engaging in such behavior which in the eyes of the parents may look like stepping stones leading into gambling addictions.

When it comes to this type of random pack, there should be a parent account option to disallow crowns to be spent on this type of product. Furthermore all items in the packs should also be made available in the crown shop for as long as the packs are being sold.

It may not be gambling, though I think it may lead into the addictive behavior of gambling so I do see the parental concern on this.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
darthjt wrote:
Gambling?

Ever hear of Trading Cards? Like BaseBall, or Bubble Gum, etc...

You get cards in a pack... Some are valuable, others are not... This is the exact same concept...

So, how on earth can you say this is gambling?

Some people have a warped point of view...
IKR, I got two 72 pedigree sea dragon pets in one pack. Gambling usually implies getting nothing in return, this is notthe case with the dragon packs.

Adherent
May 20, 2010
2902
It's gambling, as are the Second-Chance chests. The player is risking something of value (Crowns, which cost money) on an uncertain event.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
colagada wrote:
It's gambling, as are the Second-Chance chests. The player is risking something of value (Crowns, which cost money) on an uncertain event.


So, when when you go to the store and you put your quarter in a machine that gives your kid a little random toy, or ring, you are then encouraging your kids to gamble???

That is exactly the same thing... You don't know which toy you will get, but you know you will get one!

Defender
Jun 21, 2009
143
Johnist wrote:
bome1 wrote:
Just thought you'd wanna know that KI needs to pay thousands of employees and money's tough in a lot of places. Need I say more?

KingsIsle only has a few hundred employees. They don't have 'Thousands' of employees.

I think somewhere I saw a statement from them that they had roughly 200-250 employees last June. Thousands? Where do you get your numbers? seriously... Fact check before posting please!

As to the subject at hand, I'm sorry, but that's the random nature of packs. Ask any Trading Card Game player or collector. At least the way KingsIsle has it, they can't put the Bone Dragon mount up for sale on another site and rip off your money by taking your money and not giving it to you. (Note: if you buy a bone dragon from any site, you're absolutely insane as there is no wizard-to-wizard item exchange!)

Would you have been this upset if they offered Real life trading cards, where each pack came with a code to get some random item in game? No, probably not, but then that would start the 3rd party sellers into high gear, getting the cards and selling them on 3rd party sites where KingsIsle is not responsible for the transactions on. Personally, I would love to see Wizard101 TCG go live with promotional codes in each pack... they could start off with the Eye of Bartleby pack, then introduce the other packs.

Out of nearly 20,000 crowns, i got 8 Crowns Dragon Pets (2 Sea Dragons (25,000 Crowns worth), 2 Utility, 3 Vigilant, 1 Assailant), 3 Dragon Wings (Permanent) mounts (Probably another 21,000 crowns worth), 2 Double-Handed balance swords (10,000 Crowns worth, one stitched with Lifeforce Blade stats) and a ton of gear across both my accounts. I think I'm only missing 1 piece of the Vigilant set, and 1 piece of the Assailant set... all in all, I'd say that I spent 20,000 crowns and out of all the loot netted approximately 80,000 crowns worth of gear and equipment... so yes, it is frustrating not getting what you want, but it's part of the game. Maybe they can make the packs available for 50,000 Gold each, but then again, 50,000 Gold is about an hour in Wintertusk.
Whatever. What I meant was that they have to make enough money to support the game. Sorry for the confusion!

Defender
May 06, 2009
120
darthjt wrote:
We all have the ability to choose to buy something, or choose not to buy...

Now, a lotto, is gambling... You take a chance and can get nothing in return...

In this specific case, you know what you are buying before hand, you also know that each pack is different and may or may not hold the cards you want... Same as any baseball or trading card packs... Sometimes you get the exact cards you want and sometimes you don't... However, you choose to buy them, knowing you might not get the cards you want...

But, you do get stuff, therfore, it is not gambling, you are simply making a purchase of cards...



I am not sure you actually read what I wrote. Like I said it IS gambing.

defination of gambling from dictonary.com
1.
to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2.
to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.

By that very defination it is gambling, same with buying baseball card packs. The thing is legally gambling has been defined slightly differently in that as long as you are getting something it isn't gambling. When I look at a horse I call it a horse i don't invent a new name for it. So i prefer to be upfront and honest about it. This is gambling pure and simple. Since you wish to not call it gambling what would you call it? You are taking a risk/gamble at a reward that you want which is the sole reason you are buying the pack in the first place.

So really the question on is it gambling is fairly straight forward. It is gambling, the thing is honestly no one is being forced to do this. It has been common practice for this sort of gambling for very long time. Long before this game was even a twinkle in the designers eyes. I just don't appreciate not calling a horse a horse is all.

Survivor
Mar 07, 2009
37
HAHA gambling! That's hilarious! I cracked up. If your calling this gambling it means your calling buying any trading cards gambling! It's the exact same thing, except one is real life other is virtual! You get something random, rare or not. Really it's your fault if you wanna spend all your money on it. SOME PEOPLE, get it first try! OTHERS, never do! See personally I spent to buy the pack 5 times and quit to waste my money. Suck I didn't get it, but unless someone gifts it, I'm not wasting my money. Though what horrified me about the pack is all the younger kids begging to be gifted! It really annoyed and I got a lot of people on ignore cause of it! But, though whatsoever this isn't gambling at the least. This is chance like rolling a pair of dice! You might get high or low, rare or common, good or bad, cool or lame! Whatever, gambling, is of course when you bet money to lose it or again receive. Can you receive it again? No. I guess you kinda bet it for something cool. But anyways in the end most people, if they get it, spend the same amount as getting a mount normally! 5-10K, PLUS waaaaaaaay more stuff to use! If you want of course. Gambling! HAHA! That's a good one! Gambling also is when you may possibly receive or not! When you use it you obviously receive something whether it's what you want or not. It's called buying. Learn the definition. KI are the producers, you are the consumers. You buy, or waste. They get a benefit. While, you can waste your money cause your too hard-headed to admit your not going to get what you want, but at least you GOT something out of it! If this is gambling, then buying Netflix is gambling! You might get shows you'll watch, you might not! lol

Survivor
Jan 31, 2009
32
ummm calm down? If it were gambling this game would be in trouble with the law, its just simply a chance to get something through money. Is trading cards gambling?

Explorer
Jan 17, 2010
77
How can this this be going on....ITS NOT GAMBLING!

Gambling implies you have a high chance to get nothing at all from tons of money. You actually get 7 items no matter what which is not gambling. Just cause you didnt try enough times being a mount is worth 15k crowns. try a full 15k....if you get a pet that is worth 12.5k like Sea Dragon you have should consider it a reset of what you spent...You get your money worth. Just calc it out.

If it was a chance to get a item or not then yes it would be.