Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

We seem to have a DoT problem...

1
AuthorMessage
Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
The mechanics of the DoT (Damage over Time) spells need to be reworked a bit I think.

Any kind of boosting from the caster will increase the damage of the DoT and continue to carry it through for each round it is active. I agree with this.

HOWEVER, any damage reduction the target uses should also diminish the remaining DoT's power each round by the same amount.

I've faced Heckhound DoT's in 1vs1 pvp doing over 2500 points a round EACH round...basically for free. This is silly.

The current gear level, Crits, and Astral spells have broken DoT spells to the point of purely exploiting a dated mechanic.


Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Sorry, but there are no Problems with DoT's... They do exactly what they are meant to do... If you know how to buff, any DoT can be very devastating, same as any spell...

Did you know you can get storm bats to do over a million damage?

And you are talking about heck hound doing only 2500 a round...


Adherent
May 20, 2010
2900
You've made a good point. In this case, there are three sides to it.

The opposite side of the argument is that the boosts are cast on the entire spell, which happens to last over three or four turns. The shield is broken by the first attack to hit it, rendering it useless for future.

My own take on it is a compromise that may make sense to some.

With my idea, the boost should only work on the blades, since these are added to the spell before it's sent out towards the enemy. Here's the logic:

For example, if I'm using a Fire Elf without equipment boosts, this would ordinarily do 50, 70, 70, and 70. I use a Fireblade, adding 35% to it. I'm sending a spell that does 67, 94, 94, 94; that's how the spell is cast and sent to the enemy .

Once sent, the spell is fixed. Since the spell is out of the control of the caster after it's sent, it hits the first trap, which breaks and is no longer valid. So that particular trap won't affect future rounds.

Doing it this way, any Weakness-type spells (effectively negative blades) would also be used on the spell before it's cast, and they would also last for the duration.

Explorer
Jul 28, 2011
94
What you say is 100% on target, and I coudn't agree with you more. But from what Ive seen, KI just looks at dated mechanics(even broken ones), smiles to themselves, and goes back to counting their money. Instead of reading the message boards. Maybe in some months will see an improvement, but not a fix, to this mechanic.

Defender
Jun 30, 2009
183
um about the one shield lasting every one um bad idea and so nto fair and it so easy to block a dot especially heck hound all you go to do it lay a few shields and hit the fire guy not that hard and i am a fire i dissing my own school sad just yous what your parents gave ya its a brain not a train

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
In a perfect world, with a perfect setup, perhaps Lightning Bats can do a Million damage. Won't happen in PvP though.

As far as laying down multiple shields...well, ya, that would be obvious.

I don't think you realize though, that I'm talking about the fourth round of a level 60 match. Elemental Blade, Fire Blade, Astral Boost, ten pips and a Heckhound creates an ungodly DoT. Include the gear bonuses and Crit chance and you are doomed to try to avoid a 2500+ pt DoT for three rounds.

This is FREE damage each round. So stack it with perhaps another DoT, then another, then another.....how those shields workin out for ya now?

I don't know if there is another "pip pumpable" DoT besides Heckhound and Stormhound. Perhaps it's just these cards that are the problem.

I can only hope that KI is at least aware of the possibility that they may break certain mechanics as they increase gear bonuses and add new stats.


Defender
Jun 14, 2010
152
um about the one shield lasting every one um bad idea and so nto fair and it so easy to block a dot especially heck hound all you go to do it lay a few shields and hit the fire guy not that hard and i am a fire i dissing my own school sad just yous what your parents gave ya its a brain not a train

I entirely disagree with what Zeon96 just said. Sure, you can use three or four shields to block a DoT spell, but then you'd be using just about all of that type of shield in your deck.

And also, I have been taken out by a legendary Ice wizard who spammed criticaled frostbites. That was the only damaging spell that they used. And I am a respectable Necromancer, so naturally I tried to put up as many shields as I could, but it was still not enough.

So, I agree with Dridsuzy

Historian
May 01, 2010
665
Dridsuzy wrote:
In a perfect world, with a perfect setup, perhaps Lightning Bats can do a Million damage. Won't happen in PvP though.

As far as laying down multiple shields...well, ya, that would be obvious.

I don't think you realize though, that I'm talking about the fourth round of a level 60 match. Elemental Blade, Fire Blade, Astral Boost, ten pips and a Heckhound creates an ungodly DoT. Include the gear bonuses and Crit chance and you are doomed to try to avoid a 2500+ pt DoT for three rounds.

This is FREE damage each round. So stack it with perhaps another DoT, then another, then another.....how those shields workin out for ya now?

I don't know if there is another "pip pumpable" DoT besides Heckhound and Stormhound. Perhaps it's just these cards that are the problem.

I can only hope that KI is at least aware of the possibility that they may break certain mechanics as they increase gear bonuses and add new stats.



i have seen less hit a million

but anyway. lets see...
ok so pyromancer has 14 pips+-, then what happens to you? dont you have 14 pips too? so why cant you attack or do anything to stop the DoT?

ok so a shield destroys full DoT, you realize that DoTs were MADE to shred through shields? so, if you take away that, then you should go ahead and take away- lifes heals, deaths steals (keeping damage same) ices resist/defenses, storms power, myths double hits and make balance's attacks able to trigger all shields

you are talking about pvp, where, as many probably would agree ANYTHING can happen. i remember when i got bored, had max gold, so i bought a much of gargantuan, brought them to unicorn way, and equipped them to fire elf. and started spamming them in practice against legendaries. they proved to be quite effective each hitting at least 600 (when i mean at least i mean criticals, and the occasional blade from my pet) so going 200 over three rounds, and a max of three ticks on someone. and if you think i am just saying this to say it, your wrong. remember how you said, that if you put up a shield, the whole DoT is blocked? the first one to put on, takes the first shield, and guess what? takes all of the other shields you put on, so no matter how many you try to put on, youwill still get 400-500 damage on you each round.

so tell me, even if they somehow did your idea, then how would you complain about my little elf army?

Scot Soulhammer-legendary pyromancer (and proud to be one)

Delver
Feb 16, 2010
235
Umm, ever hear of triage? Lovely little spell. And it is available as a treasure card too. Ever hear of quench or dissipate? Also lovely spells too that can take away some of those lovely pips the fire wizard or storm wizard is planning to use for their attack. I think DOT's are just fine the way they are in PVP and PVE. They do exactly what they are supposed to do, break shields and keep on providing damage. Your challenge in PVP is to defeat said wizard before you let him build such a devasting attack.

Delver
Mar 15, 2009
203
come on people spell after spell everyone crys I dont like it it's not fair, you know give it a rest.

learn how to fight a defend you self and quit crying over spells.

M.RedBlood deathschool

Survivor
Dec 15, 2008
15
Historian
Jan 05, 2011
660
When you lose in pvp, it's not the system that needs to be fixed, it's your strategy that needs to be fixed. The DOT system is fine. -A.D.D., pvp 'veteran'

Defender
Jun 30, 2009
183
ok ok ok i see what your saying but you only dont like it because you cant control it just like storm can kill in a single hit so easy fire does damage of time and we got to stack to do some damage ice can block sit and relaxe think and own life can heal like a beast myth minions own so hard death a hit and heal that owns hard core and balance they can deal so much power with out even worrying about a school shield we all got advantages now disadvantages storm low health and gets owned hard in pvp most of the time fire sure we do a super heck hound but to add all that up takes a while and yea it not that hard to own us and ice weak hits and also take a bunch of time to kill life not very good attacks either myth minions can be taken out easy most fo the time death well um not to sure maybe cause it dont got a boosting bubble thing and feint adds a trap to you also and balance there best spells in my mind for hits are nova and judge we all got advantages and disadvantages lern to live adapt and own it not hard if ya get the hang of it

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Dridsuzy wrote:
In a perfect world, with a perfect setup, perhaps Lightning Bats can do a Million damage. Won't happen in PvP though.

As far as laying down multiple shields...well, ya, that would be obvious.

I don't think you realize though, that I'm talking about the fourth round of a level 60 match. Elemental Blade, Fire Blade, Astral Boost, ten pips and a Heckhound creates an ungodly DoT. Include the gear bonuses and Crit chance and you are doomed to try to avoid a 2500+ pt DoT for three rounds.

This is FREE damage each round. So stack it with perhaps another DoT, then another, then another.....how those shields workin out for ya now?

I don't know if there is another "pip pumpable" DoT besides Heckhound and Stormhound. Perhaps it's just these cards that are the problem.

I can only hope that KI is at least aware of the possibility that they may break certain mechanics as they increase gear bonuses and add new stats.



In a perfect world, in a perfect game, perhaps they would give you a spell to counteract a DOT spell... Oh wait! They do? A spell called Triage?

But you can only be life to have this spell... It comes in an amulet? wow
It also is available as a treasure card? no way!

Also, they are making pets with may cast disarm talents, disarm talents, there are weakness spells, leviathan removes 2 blades, efreet gives 90% weakness, Life can heal more than 2500 a round, and the list goes on and on...

What was your complaint again? Oh yeah, that's right, you were not prepared in the arena, so you think it is unfair...

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Dridsuzy wrote:
The mechanics of the DoT (Damage over Time) spells need to be reworked a bit I think.

Any kind of boosting from the caster will increase the damage of the DoT and continue to carry it through for each round it is active. I agree with this.

HOWEVER, any damage reduction the target uses should also diminish the remaining DoT's power each round by the same amount.

I've faced Heckhound DoT's in 1vs1 pvp doing over 2500 points a round EACH round...basically for free. This is silly.

The current gear level, Crits, and Astral spells have broken DoT spells to the point of purely exploiting a dated mechanic.



Dridsuzy,

One other point that I didn't see when scanning this was DOT only get the boost of the Blades, not the Gear boost OT.
So, yes they get the Blade boost over each round, but they only get the gear boost on the First initial hit.
So while this is great for Dragon, it hurts Snow Angel. Plus as everyone has already stated, Triage kills the rest of the spell very effectively.
I have been in PvP when this has been cast, and Triage has taken Snow Angel right out of my Deck. I no longer use my Ice (or very seldom) because of this.

Joe.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
Well of course triage without even starting my explanation. But really do you know what is required for a 2500 round heckhound attack, blades and pips, and really I can't say anything with you if you let that happen to you, you could have easily tried to shield, or weakness or something in that amount of time. DoTs are fair, if you don't like them or you see them as your weak point step up and prepare yourself for when a DoT hits, get some triage treasures or something, or you know you could get weaknesses and treasure weaknesses, but what you want to do to DoTs is really biased you basically are saying I want to make Ice, Fire, And death weaker because I can't win when they use their spells. I mean really it is so easy to beat someone that is using DoTs, triage, weaknesses, even just using spam shields lol. And with healing buffs these days to where someone who isn't even life can do a 2.5k Satyr without critical or guiding light or anything, it is really impossible to say that DoTs are a problem.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
I appreciate everyone's responses...even the sarcastic ones..:)

Truth be told though, I'm sure that there are all kinds of spells to defeat DoT's. Of course there are! It would be completely unfair if there weren't.

On paper, all of your suggestions seem quite obvious and logical, but let's go to the arena.

So the usual tactic is to throw this MONSTROUS Heckhound spell around round 4 or 5 but then guess what happens. Yeah, the Fire Mage will cast another DoT the very next round. Spells resolve Last in First out so guess what happens to all those Fire/Tower shields you had up. Ya, that's right, they get ripped by the low DoT while you Die miserably to the second Monster DoT.

Guess I should've healed right? or maybe used Triage right? Which DoT do you think Triage would've removed? How can I heal enough when the DoT alone is more than my total Hitpoints? REMEMBER...you get only ONE round to decide before you are DEAD. If you go second you are ALREADY dead and there is NOTHING you can do. Nothing. You will be dead before your response cast.

Oh and this is on the fifth round of the duel. Not really alot of time to develop your own strat if you are worrying about all this Dot nonsense.

So in closing..perhaps I should get that Life/Crown necklace to let me use PowerPips for life spells and also obtain some Triage Treasure Cards and train up to Satyr. Weakness is also another option that I think actually carries through the DoT. Could train that at the Balance School I suppose since my necklace slot will be taken.

None of this will save me/you, but it will at least give us a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that we tried.

This post isn't about ALL DoT spells. Just Heckhound and Stormhound. Pumpable DoTs...Two spells capable of doing incredible damage round after round after round with little to almost no initial investment. These two spells are broken. I'm sorry not many people see that.

I have a midlevel Fire mage though...so meh...time to dust him off. I've seen the LIGHT!


Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
Dridsuzy wrote:
The mechanics of the DoT (Damage over Time) spells need to be reworked a bit I think.

Any kind of boosting from the caster will increase the damage of the DoT and continue to carry it through for each round it is active. I agree with this.

HOWEVER, any damage reduction the target uses should also diminish the remaining DoT's power each round by the same amount.

I've faced Heckhound DoT's in 1vs1 pvp doing over 2500 points a round EACH round...basically for free. This is silly.

The current gear level, Crits, and Astral spells have broken DoT spells to the point of purely exploiting a dated mechanic.



I agree entirely with your statement that DoT defenses should be over turn per turn too.

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
660
That's the spirit, dridsuzy! If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! Seems to be the only way to survive in pvp. -A.Dd, pvp 'veteran', magus thaumaturgist

Explorer
Jan 28, 2009
73
classact21 wrote:
What you say is 100% on target, and I coudn't agree with you more. But from what Ive seen, KI just looks at dated mechanics(even broken ones), smiles to themselves, and goes back to counting their money. Instead of reading the message boards. Maybe in some months will see an improvement, but not a fix, to this mechanic.


Wow, you write this and have the steel to call yourself a "classact"

/rolls eyes

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
You have a point. How come the weaker schools in 1v1 are the ones without a DoT (balance, life, storm.) A better idea then weakening DoTs is to simply give every school a DoT spell.

-Solstice64
P.S. myth doesn't need one as they have double hit spells which have a similar purpose.

Delver
Mar 13, 2011
278
Solstice64 wrote:
P.S. myth doesn't need one as they have double hit spells which have a similar purpose.


Myth has one, on the Frog pet.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
Solstice64 wrote:
You have a point. How come the weaker schools in 1v1 are the ones without a DoT (balance, life, storm.) A better idea then weakening DoTs is to simply give every school a DoT spell.

-Solstice64
P.S. myth doesn't need one as they have double hit spells which have a similar purpose.


You call balance storm and life weak? Storm spells do most damage in the game, New boosts means that life can do 2k heals without any guiding light, Balance still rules 1v1 with judge. I mean really, DoTs if you ask me are for schools that are weaker then others, and thats how they make up. Do you think ice is more powerful strom because that isn't even a debate lol. Seriously this topic should be finished because it obviously been answered. We can't keep trying to change the game just because some people see a DoT don't know what to do about it, no shields, no weakness, no triages or anything else, and then just complain and say it should be taken out because they didn't know what to do.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
thorvon65 wrote:


You call balance storm and life weak? Storm spells do most damage in the game, New boosts means that life can do 2k heals without any guiding light, Balance still rules 1v1 with judge. I mean really, DoTs if you ask me are for schools that are weaker then others, and thats how they make up. Do you think ice is more powerful strom because that isn't even a debate lol. Seriously this topic should be finished because it obviously been answered. We can't keep trying to change the game just because some people see a DoT don't know what to do about it, no shields, no weakness, no triages or anything else, and then just complain and say it should be taken out because they didn't know what to do.


Yes, I am calling balance storm and life weak. They are the three lowest schools on the tier list.

Storm is capable of massive damage, but not so much in pvp. They have a hard time removing shields, meaning they can only win from first unless the other player doesn't bother shielding. So their powerful attacks are almost always going through a -70% shield, whereas fire can simply fire elf them off. On top of all this, they have the lowest health and resist, making them die quite quickly.

Even if life can heal 2k, so can any school with a life mastery amulet. They have the same problem as storm, but with more health and less damage, they cant clear shields with ease. Anyways, dooms and gloom takes away their healing, and with their bubble being 3 pips, they cant compete in the bubble war.

Balance rules in 1v1 with judge? Have you even done 1v1 with balance? The only powerful thing balance can do in 1v1 is cast different kinds of feints then shatter, then judge. Honestly, it easy to counter if prepared, and isn't very strategic at all. Balance's main attack is spectral blast, and volcanic shield ruins it. Balance has to spend 6 pips to clear the shield with hydra, then it is just brought back as a shield is 0 pips. Judgement is only used as a kill move, so if you don't kill, you cant follow up or recover. They also cant compete in the bubble war. Give balance a good bubble and an easy way to clear elemental shields, then balance would be able to compete against fire myth and ice.

My suggestion was to give schools without DoTs some means of clearing shields, and schools without good bubbles, to get good bubbles. Oh and yes, ice is much more powerful then storm, and if you lose to storm, you must not be shielding enough. Spamming shields on storm stops them in their tracks. Look at the wizard101 central tournaments, most of the winners are fire and myth, then ice comes next. Storm and life rarely are the winners.

-Solstice64
P.S. the only exception to what I said are gimmicks like max feints or chain stunning. Anything on those lines defy the things I am stating.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
Solstice64 wrote:
thorvon65 wrote:


You call balance storm and life weak? Storm spells do most damage in the game, New boosts means that life can do 2k heals without any guiding light, Balance still rules 1v1 with judge. I mean really, DoTs if you ask me are for schools that are weaker then others, and thats how they make up. Do you think ice is more powerful strom because that isn't even a debate lol. Seriously this topic should be finished because it obviously been answered. We can't keep trying to change the game just because some people see a DoT don't know what to do about it, no shields, no weakness, no triages or anything else, and then just complain and say it should be taken out because they didn't know what to do.


Yes, I am calling balance storm and life weak. They are the three lowest schools on the tier list.

Storm is capable of massive damage, but not so much in pvp. They have a hard time removing shields, meaning they can only win from first unless the other player doesn't bother shielding. So their powerful attacks are almost always going through a -70% shield, whereas fire can simply fire elf them off. On top of all this, they have the lowest health and resist, making them die quite quickly.

Even if life can heal 2k, so can any school with a life mastery amulet. They have the same problem as storm, but with more health and less damage, they cant clear shields with ease. Anyways, dooms and gloom takes away their healing, and with their bubble being 3 pips, they cant compete in the bubble war.

Balance rules in 1v1 with judge? Have you even done 1v1 with balance? The only powerful thing balance can do in 1v1 is cast different kinds of feints then shatter, then judge. Honestly, it easy to counter if prepared, and isn't very strategic at all. Balance's main attack is spectral blast, and volcanic shield ruins it. Balance has to spend 6 pips to clear the shield with hydra, then it is just brought back as a shield is 0 pips. Judgement is only used as a kill move, so if you don't kill, you cant follow up or recover. They also cant compete in the bubble war. Give balance a good bubble and an easy way to clear elemental shields, then balance would be able to compete against fire myth and ice.

My suggestion was to give schools without DoTs some means of clearing shields, and schools without good bubbles, to get good bubbles. Oh and yes, ice is much more powerful then storm, and if you lose to storm, you must not be shielding enough. Spamming shields on storm stops them in their tracks. Look at the wizard101 central tournaments, most of the winners are fire and myth, then ice comes next. Storm and life rarely are the winners.

-Solstice64
P.S. the only exception to what I said are gimmicks like max feints or chain stunning. Anything on those lines defy the things I am stating.


Ok almost everything you said on why the schools are weak are just how you are supposed to defeat that school, so going specifics like that doesn't prove they are bad because of their school, your showing they just aren't applying themselves. But in just assuming this, storms can wild bolt to get rid of shields which is 2 pips same amount that a fire pays for fire elf no? well if that isn't good enough for you there is actually a transmute storm elf card that is fire elf but guess what it does storm damage, sold at the bazaar.

Ok now for life you went really really specifc lol, i'm seriously the only 1v1 player I know that actually uses doom and gloom, while like a vast majority of players do not use this, and besides when I use my doom and gloom a life can easily do a 900 heal with satyr still, not only this but they have triage which gets rid of these nasty DoTs you seem to dislike so really they aren't that weak if they can just with one spell that costs no pips and has 100% accuracy and get rid of that DoT.

Now if you read my posts you would probably know that I actually am balance lol. So yea i mean i have done a good 600 pvp withs my and about half of them are 1v1s. Balances main strength is minions if you ask me, I do a weakness strategy simply pile on the weaknesses, and I never do that rely on just one judge, as long as you have a good steady flow of decent damage judgements it is pretty amazing how easy it is to win.

1