What if before the first turn of play the team that is to go last would be given a free turn of play where they don't get pips from it, aren't allowed to use attack cards, but could shield, cast weaknesses, dispels, and the like. A major problem with going last is being killed by a wave attack on the first turn from the team going first.
I think its kind of more fair because the team that goes first seems to have a free turn because they go first. This is very apparent when it comes to the empower card. If the team that goes first casts empower and they get hit on the first turn they get to use their empower pips on the second turn. If the team that goes second casts empower on the first turn, they don't get to use the pips from the first turn attacks that were on them which places them a full turn behind.
The first team gets to shield and the like against initial attacks, but the second just has to put up with unshielded damage. The team that gets to go first gets to see what shields are in place against their attacks before attacking and can use dispels and beguile (both of which should be removed from PvP) more effectively as they seem to be mainly for the team that goes first.
This idea would still place the team that goes first at the advantage, but it would be a much smaller advantage than what they currently have now.
So, what, they would go twice on the first round? lol sorry, um NO!
What I think seasnake means or at least what I think he means is that not that they go twice in the first round, thats just unfair but the second team would get their turn BEFORE the first team to shield. They would then not get another turn afterwards unless of course they use the function again to shield in front of the first team. I personally think this is a good idea so that the first team has to face the uncertainty of if your going to hit smack into a shield. Thats just what I think.
the team that goes last would get to select non-attack cards on the initial turn after the pre-game clock winds down, after they put up whatever defenses the match would start same as always... it is in no way two turns in a row and just makes things more fair, as it plays now the team that goes first already plays like it has been given a free turn as well as other advantages over the team playing last
why do we have to pay to get crowns why can we just get them without paying like me i want to gift my best friend a gift but my dad wont let me use hes card like come on be nicer plz just let it be free and will be more happy :-D lol just make a chance
So, where is team 1s free turn to shield? What about pets with shield casting abilities...
I am sorry, but none of this flies... You have team #1, then team #2, you may not like getting to go 2nd, but it happens... Now, I have given and shown ways of surviving the so called Tempest Wave Problem, if you are not taking my advice, then it is your own fault for losing to an all storm team...
Sorry, but you all are just trying to complicate and make things silly...
So, where is team 1s free turn to shield? What about pets with shield casting abilities...
I am sorry, but none of this flies... You have team #1, then team #2, you may not like getting to go 2nd, but it happens... Now, I have given and shown ways of surviving the so called Tempest Wave Problem, if you are not taking my advice, then it is your own fault for losing to an all storm team...
Sorry, but you all are just trying to complicate and make things silly...
Team one can easily get up shields on the first turn as it stands now and without team twos knowledge of them being their when team two chooses its cards to attack. Team one always knows what team two has done before team one does anything. Team one (the team that goes first) is the only team that one sided cards such as dispels and beguiele work well for. You as where is team one's free turn to shield, it already has it, and it can easily shield after team two's free turn to shield before team two can attack.
For once, I'm disagreeing with you darthjt. A turn where only 0 pip spells could be used for the second team might be useful. I've read your ideas for taking down a full storm team, and I'm afraid they rely mostly on theory and ifs. I've often supported you in defending spells and schools(Balance being the most notable.), but I think that this quick, useful shielding turn for the second team could prove a valuable addition to PvP.
What if before the first turn of play the team that is to go last would be given a free turn of play where they don't get pips from it, aren't allowed to use attack cards, but could shield, cast weaknesses, dispels, and the like. A major problem with going last is being killed by a wave attack on the first turn from the team going first.
Seasnake,
I didn't read all the posts, so I am sorry if anyone has already posted this. I think the basic idea is good, but what I would like to see is KI do something automatic for the second team. They could put up a minus 30 (or 15) shield and a Stun Block (four stun blocks for 4v4, Three stun blocks for 3v3, etc).
The minus 30 (or 15) shield would offset the first blade that was put up to even it out. The stun blocks could stop the chain stun teams, or at least give the second team a chance to put up more stun blocks.
So, where is team 1s free turn to shield? What about pets with shield casting abilities...
I am sorry, but none of this flies... You have team #1, then team #2, you may not like getting to go 2nd, but it happens... Now, I have given and shown ways of surviving the so called Tempest Wave Problem, if you are not taking my advice, then it is your own fault for losing to an all storm team...
Sorry, but you all are just trying to complicate and make things silly...
Yes on behalf everyone who has ever posted anything on the message boards of wizard101 we apologize for not doing as we are told by you??
Listen Darth all your advice involves using auras, or shields, or whatever it is.
You can't aura, shield, or cast weakness if its the first turn and your going second so that was bad adivce.
Changing auras can destroy someone's strategy for example on my balance i rely on vengance to land criticals its just how it works and a lot of balance, fire, and storm do the same.
On my ice i rely on fortify or amplify. And just because you get the life force blade and all the stuff that should give you critical block, that doesn't mean it will block i have gotten some of the highest block from gear you can get it doesnt work its luck...
So now that darth's advice hasn't worked, Seasnake comes up with a fair and new way to tackle these problems... While i have disagreed with seasnake in the past this is a great idea...
And sorry Seasnakes idea is a lot better than trying to coniviction right after you get hit with 3k damage of tempests.
You really have not listened to a word I have said... A closed mind will never listen or think of the possible solutions and I am sorry, but you are very close minded...
Now, I am not saying, for once Seasnakes idea does not have any merit or potential, however, it would need to be equal and fair.. You can't give an extra turn to shield to team 2 and not give team 1 that chance...
Basically, what this states, is that team 2 goes 1st but you can't attack...
You could make the same rules without changing the order, by just saying, nobody can attack on the first round.
No attacks, no stuns, no dispels... However, then you also get into a huge dilemna, when an entire team uses Empower right off the bat and then their Level 7 spell...
No matter what you do, or how you change things, it can and will make an unfair advantage...
You want to make it fair? This is the only way... Make PvP where you start out with only 1 pip...
What if before the first turn of play the team that is to go last would be given a free turn of play where they don't get pips from it, aren't allowed to use attack cards, but could shield, cast weaknesses, dispels, and the like. A major problem with going last is being killed by a wave attack on the first turn from the team going first.
Seasnake,
I didn't read all the posts, so I am sorry if anyone has already posted this. I think the basic idea is good, but what I would like to see is KI do something automatic for the second team. They could put up a minus 30 (or 15) shield and a Stun Block (four stun blocks for 4v4, Three stun blocks for 3v3, etc).
The minus 30 (or 15) shield would offset the first blade that was put up to even it out. The stun blocks could stop the chain stun teams, or at least give the second team a chance to put up more stun blocks.
Joe.
if you would rather have something automatic for the first turn of play rather than taking an additional half turn of play, I would think if first turn damage were cut in half it would accomplish the same goal without additional time
this would mean both the teams would likely skip attacking on the first turn to avoid half damage on the first while having a stronger second turn attack wave, but by that time defenses and weaknesses would already have been given time to get up and a larger number of players will opt to take yet another turn to go from something like tempest to storm lord, and in that amount of time the entire wave may be effectively messed up
You really have not listened to a word I have said... A closed mind will never listen or think of the possible solutions and I am sorry, but you are very close minded...
Now, I am not saying, for once Seasnakes idea does not have any merit or potential, however, it would need to be equal and fair.. You can't give an extra turn to shield to team 2 and not give team 1 that chance...
Basically, what this states, is that team 2 goes 1st but you can't attack...
You could make the same rules without changing the order, by just saying, nobody can attack on the first round.
No attacks, no stuns, no dispels... However, then you also get into a huge dilemna, when an entire team uses Empower right off the bat and then their Level 7 spell...
No matter what you do, or how you change things, it can and will make an unfair advantage...
You want to make it fair? This is the only way... Make PvP where you start out with only 1 pip...
Darhjit, this is fair. Team 1 is still going to have an advantage, it attacks first as team 2 can't attack with this function! But this offsets the advantage because team 1 now has to face uncertainty on the possibility of a suprise shield. Before, team 1 was really the only one who could win, using your strategies to maximise that advantage. But with seasnake's idea, it becomes more fair. Prehaps this function should only be allowed to use a certain amount of times per game, say 5 times,
An even simpler solution would be to have the 1st turn for both teams as a non-attack turn. You can only cast shields,minion spells,etc. This way the 1st turn kill is rendered null,and going 1st doesn't matter anymore. Also,if you get killed on 2nd turn,then you cant complain about it ,because you had your turn to prepare. A simple solution that adds balance to an unbalanced pvp playing field.
An even simpler solution would be to have the 1st turn for both teams as a non-attack turn. You can only cast shields,minion spells,etc. This way the 1st turn kill is rendered null,and going 1st doesn't matter anymore. Also,if you get killed on 2nd turn,then you cant complain about it ,because you had your turn to prepare. A simple solution that adds balance to an unbalanced pvp playing field.
That is exactly what I said...
Still, the best solution for all, especially since everyone says that there are too many problems with off the bat kills, etc...
An even simpler solution would be to have the 1st turn for both teams as a non-attack turn. You can only cast shields,minion spells,etc. This way the 1st turn kill is rendered null,and going 1st doesn't matter anymore. Also,if you get killed on 2nd turn,then you cant complain about it ,because you had your turn to prepare. A simple solution that adds balance to an unbalanced pvp playing field.
That is exactly what I said...
Still, the best solution for all, especially since everyone says that there are too many problems with off the bat kills, etc...
Make everyone in PvP start with 1 pip!
everyone starting at one pip does not solve anything when it comes to all storm teams as one pip gargantuan tempests still do massive damage (times four in 4v4 all storms on a side) unless damage reductions and/or shields are in place... it wouldn't be so bad if school resistant amulets were in the game as I've been advocating but they aren't
I think either a free shielding turn or 50% first turn only damage reduction, or 50% off damage side 1 and 25% off damage side 2 on first turn only would be the way to go.
darthjt, what you continually fail to realize is that the side going first already has a huge advantage and plays as if they have an extra pip at the start over team two as team two can only use their pips when they are alive upon their turn, also team one always knows what shields are down and what wards are in place before ever playing their cards on their turn while the other team does not have such advance notice upon selecting their play. You make it quite clear that you want to preserve the unfair advantages of the team that goes first over the team that goes last by treating both the same and therefor never evening the current imbalances of the playing field between them.
I fail to be convinced that starting out with less pips is going to resolve the 4v4 tempest problem on the first turn when the 4v4 storm team opens with one pip tempests enhanced with gargantuan cards. I'd rather have half damage on the first team to play on the first turn or a free shielding turn for the team that plays last.
Here we all are, brainstorming complicated ideas like this, and darthjt makes us all look like fools! Starting off with one pip is a wondrous idea, back to the good old days before we all got wands and swords that give a pip and items that make it nigh impossible to not get a power pip. It wouldn't solve the entire delimma, it still wouldn't take that long for someone to build up an attack, but it would give us a fighting chance. My compliments on finding such a simple, effective method darthjt!
Please forgive my noob'ish suggestion, and please don't punish me for it:
What if PvP was set up so that all wizards' pip change was set to be the same, dependent on level. For example, if I enter the arena with my Legendary Theurgist in a battle with another legendary, our power pip chance would be an average of our total power pip chance combined. I have 102% power pip chance, he has 87% power pip chance for an average of 95% power pip chance for both of us. Maybe that isn't a good example, perhaps I should have used a midlevel example. Anyway, it's my thought.
This would not stop Storm from spamming Wild Bolt right off the mark, but it might balance out power in subsequent rounds. In most cases, it would level the playing field after the first round, I think.
Of course, this idea is predicated on the assumption that PvP queuing works properly, and wizards are automatically evenly matched.
Here we all are, brainstorming complicated ideas like this, and darthjt makes us all look like fools! Starting off with one pip is a wondrous idea, back to the good old days before we all got wands and swords that give a pip and items that make it nigh impossible to not get a power pip. It wouldn't solve the entire delimma, it still wouldn't take that long for someone to build up an attack, but it would give us a fighting chance. My compliments on finding such a simple, effective method darthjt!
I for one do not share in your love affair for darthjt's idea. For one, storm still hits incredibly hard with one pip tempests especially if they critical so going first and being killed going last on first turn isn't resolved under this idea, and second now the team that goes last can no longer afford to heal first turn or even cast plague. So if team one that is all storm casts tempest on their first two turns they know that team two won't have plagues upon them and will not have been able to heal in any way. The one starting pip idea is a complete failure that does not resolve the problem but actually makes things worse than they currently are in 4v4 pvp. Starting the side that goes first with a one pip reduction while keeping team two with their regular starting pips is something I have suggested in the past that was only met with great hostility towards me with cries of how unfair it would be to team one who has every advantage.
Here we all are, brainstorming complicated ideas like this, and darthjt makes us all look like fools! Starting off with one pip is a wondrous idea, back to the good old days before we all got wands and swords that give a pip and items that make it nigh impossible to not get a power pip. It wouldn't solve the entire delimma, it still wouldn't take that long for someone to build up an attack, but it would give us a fighting chance. My compliments on finding such a simple, effective method darthjt!
I for one do not share in your love affair for darthjt's idea. For one, storm still hits incredibly hard with one pip tempests especially if they critical so going first and being killed going last on first turn isn't resolved under this idea, and second now the team that goes last can no longer afford to heal first turn or even cast plague. So if team one that is all storm casts tempest on their first two turns they know that team two won't have plagues upon them and will not have been able to heal in any way. The one starting pip idea is a complete failure that does not resolve the problem but actually makes things worse than they currently are in 4v4 pvp. Starting the side that goes first with a one pip reduction while keeping team two with their regular starting pips is something I have suggested in the past that was only met with great hostility towards me with cries of how unfair it would be to team one who has every advantage.
Seasnake, your issue was that storm can kill you on the first round, without being able to shield or do anything in return...
Going back to 1 pip, does not even have to be a power pip, how does that make storm too overpowered? lol they can't use wildbolt or insane bolt right off the bat... 80 damage + 250 gargantuan = 330 + 85% = 611
Now, with resistance of 35%, damage would be 397...
Now, factor in all your IF's, If Storm has 85% power boost rating, if All storm hit Critical, If you fail every block, then damage might be...
794 x 4 =3176 Yes, It could still kill most players, of course the chances are oh, I dunno, like being hit by insane bolt successfully 1000 times in a row without killing yourself... Making it to where you can understand, since you are not open to anything, but your own idea...
So, If they can't kill you, you can shield, use auras and gives you more time, how can you be against it? Think of it like this, IF storm did cast tempest, it did it's 397 Damage and your pet casted spritely, you would be healed almost completely first round and they would have lost a pip...
like me i want to gift my best friend a gift but my dad wont let me use hes card like come on be nicer plz just let it be free and will be more happy :-D lol just make a chance
