Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

For all account questions and concerns, contact Customer Support.

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Shadow Enhanced Spells in High Level 1v1 PvP

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jun 23, 2014
3
With the past updates all introducing new shadow spells, lots of normal spells are now unviable, lowering diversity and increasing randomness. Compare gaze of fate to savage paw, both costing five normal pips and gaze costing one extra shadow pip. Gaze's base damage is 1100 (two 550 hits) and it puts up a +25% balance damage bubble. Savage paw's baser damage is 500, giving a +25% balance blade. So, the extra shadow pip cost added 600 damage and upgraded a blade to a bubble. If we try to convert the shadow pip to normal pips, the one shadow pip converted to at least over five normal pips, I would consider it at about six. There are plenty of other comparisons, winter moon (495 + stun) to abominable weaver (950-1150 + 75% universal shield), even compare them to the ten pip level 88 spells. Such as hungry caterpillar (950-1150 + 800 absorb) to spinysaur (600 + 750) or fire from above (1100-1300 + 3 25% fire traps) to sun serpent (900-1000 + 300).

Those are only the first set of shadow spells, the second set released along with Polaris is rather similar to the first, but the recently released Mirage shadow enhanced spells are a red flag to PvP. Doing more comparisons of power, sand worm to loremaster. Loremaster has a notorious history and is an extremely useful and powerful tool for balance wizards, giving great damage and a weakness/mantle. The two compare roughly equally in damage output, with loremaster having 97.5-117.5 damage/pip (as well as the side effects) and sand worm having 113 damage/pip with the shadow pip counted (255 damage/pip if you don't count it). They seem rather similar, but there are several problems and why sand worm and the other new four pip shadow enhanced spells are more powerful than any spell we've seen yet. This is mostly because shadow pips are gained randomly, and oftentimes unfairly when combined with first and second turn. Shadow pips are essentially massive tempi gains of about three power pips, and since the new spells only cost four pips, you are required to keep your guard up even when your opponent has just a single power pip. Especially considering with the new addition of legendary wands, since block isn't as necessary as previous, players can rack up to over 120 damage. This means your average four pip shadow spell will dish out ~2900 damage without resist and about 2450 with 50 resist (and 35 pierce).
So, with all of this being said, are shadow enhanced spells worthy of being banned from PvP? The driving point behind any ban is when the meta focuses one powerful tactic or strategy. Meaning doing anything else will likely result in a loss, which in turn causes everyone to use this one thing to win. All of the shadow enhanced spells are definite examples of powerful spells (strategies or tactics) that the meta has focused in on, and should definitely should be banned from PvP.

Please share your thoughts/opinions below!

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1640
I agree, the new Shadow Enhanced Spells are no good for top level meta. Along with coming at no cost, if my opponent is at 2 pips and no shadow pips, I still have to worry (from second) about the opponent getting a Shadow pip the next turn to deal ~2600 damage. This gives us no time to do anything but shield and attack as anything else will be sacrificing your 2600 health for a 40% blade or whatnot. Keeping Shadow Enhanced Spells at 5+ pips was the only thing that allowed players to use other cards other than shields until they got their own Shadow pips since you had 2 turns until they got enough pips to use them.

As for if Shadow Enhanced Spells need a PvP ban, most player's opinions have been a cut and clear "Yes" but KI seems to not what to do anything about it.

There have been so many threads whose epitome has been about the brokenness of Shadow Enhanced Spells:

There are so many more but I am running out of space to type so I'll leave the thread links there.

Another thing I wanted to point out is how the 4 pip Shadow Enhanced Spells are considered underwhelming by most PvE players. Increasing their damage but labeling them "No PvP" would be a very well endorsed change by both PvE and PvP communities and I'm sure nobody will be complaining.

Explorer
Oct 12, 2012
79
PvP King on Dec 8, 2016 wrote:
I agree, the new Shadow Enhanced Spells are no good for top level meta. Along with coming at no cost, if my opponent is at 2 pips and no shadow pips, I still have to worry (from second) about the opponent getting a Shadow pip the next turn to deal ~2600 damage. This gives us no time to do anything but shield and attack as anything else will be sacrificing your 2600 health for a 40% blade or whatnot. Keeping Shadow Enhanced Spells at 5+ pips was the only thing that allowed players to use other cards other than shields until they got their own Shadow pips since you had 2 turns until they got enough pips to use them.

As for if Shadow Enhanced Spells need a PvP ban, most player's opinions have been a cut and clear "Yes" but KI seems to not what to do anything about it.

There have been so many threads whose epitome has been about the brokenness of Shadow Enhanced Spells:

There are so many more but I am running out of space to type so I'll leave the thread links there.

Another thing I wanted to point out is how the 4 pip Shadow Enhanced Spells are considered underwhelming by most PvE players. Increasing their damage but labeling them "No PvP" would be a very well endorsed change by both PvE and PvP communities and I'm sure nobody will be complaining.
Honestly I don't like the 4 pip 1 shadow spell ideas either ( besides the animation), but shadow spells shouldn't be "no pvp". You may have heard/seen people agree that shadow spells should be banned, but on central ( and some people in game) a lot of people ( i'm pretty sure ) have good reasons for why they think shadow spells should not be no pvp. I wont mention the things they said ( cause i'm to lazy to type and remember what they said), you guys can go on central and find those threads if you want lol.

If shadow pip spells become banned then jades WILL be impossible ( maybe i'm over exaggerating a bit lol) to beat and people who set resist to certain schools ( that's just what i think).

The new shadow spells KI introduced in Mirage doesn't mean they should ban all shadow spells lol. I think they should increase the the pips for the current new ones to 5 pips and weaken their damage a bit.

Also can make it where even if you get a shadow pip, you can't use any shadow spells unless it's a blade or trap or something like that on the first 1-3 turns.

I don't have a solution for everything, but banning shadow spells isn't going to help pvp either imo. I could go on saying things but i'm just leave it at saying this, as long as angel and juju jades are around ( with their enfeeble pets so rip one shot) and peoples set resist ward pets, shadow spells should never go "no pvp". I also kinda think that shadow spells like the darkmoor ones were made to counter jades with the amount of damage shown on them, like even looking at shrike makes me think even more shadow spells were kinda mostly made to counter jades. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just my opinion.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1640
SanicTheHegFlame on Dec 9, 2016 wrote:
Honestly I don't like the 4 pip 1 shadow spell ideas either ( besides the animation), but shadow spells shouldn't be "no pvp". You may have heard/seen people agree that shadow spells should be banned, but on central ( and some people in game) a lot of people ( i'm pretty sure ) have good reasons for why they think shadow spells should not be no pvp. I wont mention the things they said ( cause i'm to lazy to type and remember what they said), you guys can go on central and find those threads if you want lol.

If shadow pip spells become banned then jades WILL be impossible ( maybe i'm over exaggerating a bit lol) to beat and people who set resist to certain schools ( that's just what i think).

The new shadow spells KI introduced in Mirage doesn't mean they should ban all shadow spells lol. I think they should increase the the pips for the current new ones to 5 pips and weaken their damage a bit.

Also can make it where even if you get a shadow pip, you can't use any shadow spells unless it's a blade or trap or something like that on the first 1-3 turns.

I don't have a solution for everything, but banning shadow spells isn't going to help pvp either imo. I could go on saying things but i'm just leave it at saying this, as long as angel and juju jades are around ( with their enfeeble pets so rip one shot) and peoples set resist ward pets, shadow spells should never go "no pvp". I also kinda think that shadow spells like the darkmoor ones were made to counter jades with the amount of damage shown on them, like even looking at shrike makes me think even more shadow spells were kinda mostly made to counter jades. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just my opinion.
I never suggested banning all Shadow Enhanced Spells. I said the 4 pip versions should be buffed for PvE but labeled no PvP. I do, however, dislike the existence of any Shadow Enhanced Spell in PvP since we're still doing phenomenal amounts of damage for such little cost.

Explorer
Oct 12, 2012
79
PvP King on Dec 9, 2016 wrote:
I never suggested banning all Shadow Enhanced Spells. I said the 4 pip versions should be buffed for PvE but labeled no PvP. I do, however, dislike the existence of any Shadow Enhanced Spell in PvP since we're still doing phenomenal amounts of damage for such little cost.
I'm sorry for reading your post wrong.

But if it's about the new 4 pip spells then honestly i'd like it if those became 5-6 pips cause when i seen the damage ( on my Myth ) Snake charmer happens to be stronger than Mystic, so i think the only change to this should be the pip cost to at-least 5-6 or something, even tho some schools like fire already has a raging bull, just a suggestion.