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PVP - Catch of the Day needs a buff

2
AuthorMessage
Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 9, 2015 wrote:
I am comparing the trends of the crafted/dropped spells. The majority of these spells follow a higher dpp for effect with the exception of Catch and krampus. As a result those spells are out of trend with the other/crafted dropped spells and thus deserve a buff.
What I'm saying is sort of off topic. You just cannot compare the old lore spells with the new. It's an eagle and a fox. They are different in so many ways. You cannot compare them and get a reasonable answer to the questions of Catch of the Day. It's common sense.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 9, 2015 wrote:
What I'm saying is sort of off topic. You just cannot compare the old lore spells with the new. It's an eagle and a fox. They are different in so many ways. You cannot compare them and get a reasonable answer to the questions of Catch of the Day. It's common sense.
Why not? Loremaster was released after Luminous Weaver etc yet it still follows the trend(after the developers adjusted the spells to compete with Loremaster). Compared to the old Lore spells- Catch of the day is out of trend. Compared to the new Lore spells- Catch of the Day is out of trend. Compared to storm spells in general-Catch of the Day is out of trend.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 9, 2015 wrote:
Why not? Loremaster was released after Luminous Weaver etc yet it still follows the trend(after the developers adjusted the spells to compete with Loremaster). Compared to the old Lore spells- Catch of the day is out of trend. Compared to the new Lore spells- Catch of the Day is out of trend. Compared to storm spells in general-Catch of the Day is out of trend.
Your point? You still can't compare a fox with an eagle. It's common sense!

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
Your point? You still can't compare a fox with an eagle. It's common sense!
My point is that the spell is widely out of trend regardless of comparative criteria. To use your analogy- yes an eagle and a fox are not the same. However if the fox has a large gash on it's side and the eagle is perfectly healthy I should hope one would see the discrepancy.

Defender
Apr 07, 2011
155
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
My point is that the spell is widely out of trend regardless of comparative criteria. To use your analogy- yes an eagle and a fox are not the same. However if the fox has a large gash on it's side and the eagle is perfectly healthy I should hope one would see the discrepancy.
I agree with you a 100% percent.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
My point is that the spell is widely out of trend regardless of comparative criteria. To use your analogy- yes an eagle and a fox are not the same. However if the fox has a large gash on it's side and the eagle is perfectly healthy I should hope one would see the discrepancy.
It doesn't matter if one is wounded and the other is not. They are still in no way the same. Think about it. This is quite a pathetic topic to be arguing about.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
It doesn't matter if one is wounded and the other is not. They are still in no way the same. Think about it. This is quite a pathetic topic to be arguing about.
No one is saying they are the same. What we are saying is that there is a clear discrepancy with Catch of The Day and it not meeting the standards applied to dropped/crafted spells. If you feel this is a pathetic topic that is your opinion. However it is an important topic to me and the original poster.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
No one is saying they are the same. What we are saying is that there is a clear discrepancy with Catch of The Day and it not meeting the standards applied to dropped/crafted spells. If you feel this is a pathetic topic that is your opinion. However it is an important topic to me and the original poster.
I just want to know how you can fairly compare Catch of the Day to a spell like Calatan(An original lore) as you did in your first post. Tell me that please. And the reason I think this is a pathetic argument is because we are entirely off topic from the original problem.

Geographer
Sep 07, 2011
817
There are different reasons for spells and schools being unique, but by any logic I can find Catch of the Day is underpowered.

Compared to other spells in class or other dropped spells with similar pip cost, having the original Enfeeble effect or more damage makes sense.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Gemma Luna on Jun 12, 2015 wrote:
There are different reasons for spells and schools being unique, but by any logic I can find Catch of the Day is underpowered.

Compared to other spells in class or other dropped spells with similar pip cost, having the original Enfeeble effect or more damage makes sense.
Okay, so then what about Samurai? It has no side affects whatsoever and doesn't do that great amount of damage. Now, this is only if you are wanting to compare a fox with an eagle which it seems most do. So comparing the two lore spells, Catch of the Day is just like Samurai in a sense. Thus I ask you why everyone complains about STORM and not the other schools that are just as in need? Especially Ice!!!

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 12, 2015 wrote:
I just want to know how you can fairly compare Catch of the Day to a spell like Calatan(An original lore) as you did in your first post. Tell me that please. And the reason I think this is a pathetic argument is because we are entirely off topic from the original problem.
Certainly-

Stormzilla: Trained spell- Dpp 138/ Earliest Lvl of Acquisition: 42

Catalan: Lore spell- Dpp 139+effect(follows trend)/ Earliest Lvl of Acquisition: 1

Catch of the Day: New Lore spell- Dpp 115+effect(massively below trend)/ Earliest lvl of Acquisition: 1

We are certainly on topic. I am arguing that Catch of the Day is underpowered and needs a buff which is precisely the OP's argument.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1642
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 13, 2015 wrote:
Certainly-

Stormzilla: Trained spell- Dpp 138/ Earliest Lvl of Acquisition: 42

Catalan: Lore spell- Dpp 139+effect(follows trend)/ Earliest Lvl of Acquisition: 1

Catch of the Day: New Lore spell- Dpp 115+effect(massively below trend)/ Earliest lvl of Acquisition: 1

We are certainly on topic. I am arguing that Catch of the Day is underpowered and needs a buff which is precisely the OP's argument.
Eric, I have a question. Are you asking that Catch of The Day should deal more damage or that its Enfeeble effect should return? Because the problem I see with the Enfeeble effect, especially at lower levels, is if Storm keeps a consistent Catch of The Day on the enemy, many Death, Life, Ice, and Myth wizards will struggle to take out a Storm. I do agree, though, Catch of The Day should deal more around 650-700 damage (130-140 dpp + defensive aftereffect) , but still only keep the double Disarm effect.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 13, 2015 wrote:
Okay, so then what about Samurai? It has no side affects whatsoever and doesn't do that great amount of damage. Now, this is only if you are wanting to compare a fox with an eagle which it seems most do. So comparing the two lore spells, Catch of the Day is just like Samurai in a sense. Thus I ask you why everyone complains about STORM and not the other schools that are just as in need? Especially Ice!!!
Samoorai does 100 dpp- above dpp for balance. Catch of the day does significantly below dpp for storm.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 13, 2015 wrote:
Certainly-

Stormzilla: Trained spell- Dpp 138/ Earliest Lvl of Acquisition: 42

Catalan: Lore spell- Dpp 139+effect(follows trend)/ Earliest Lvl of Acquisition: 1

Catch of the Day: New Lore spell- Dpp 115+effect(massively below trend)/ Earliest lvl of Acquisition: 1

We are certainly on topic. I am arguing that Catch of the Day is underpowered and needs a buff which is precisely the OP's argument.
I'm looking through your eyes at this situation but because I am not a main storm, I see the outside affect. When I look at it from a storm's eyes, the first phrase that pops into my head is: Low pip spamming. Catch of the Day is plenty powerful for its number of pips and due to the rest of the storm spells. What I want to knowing why everyone whines about storm being underpowered and not the other schools. Now you may be thinking "Because the other schooled AREN'T underpowered". They are.

Take a look at Balance's samurai spell. It's not the greatest and does about the same, if not less, stuff than Catch of the Day. But no one whines about how unfair that is; but ya whine about storm. Why?

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
PvP King on Jun 13, 2015 wrote:
Eric, I have a question. Are you asking that Catch of The Day should deal more damage or that its Enfeeble effect should return? Because the problem I see with the Enfeeble effect, especially at lower levels, is if Storm keeps a consistent Catch of The Day on the enemy, many Death, Life, Ice, and Myth wizards will struggle to take out a Storm. I do agree, though, Catch of The Day should deal more around 650-700 damage (130-140 dpp + defensive aftereffect) , but still only keep the double Disarm effect.
I am requesting more damage so that the dpp trends remain consistent.

Suggestions:
-Lower the pip cost to 4- This would allow the spell to follow current trends of dropped spells being better on average.

OR

-Increase the damage to Stormzilla-esque levels- We have established from Catalan and other Lore spells that damage from the crafted/dropped spells is higher In keeping with that principle Catch of the Day's damage should be somewhere around Catalan's damage(700) or Stormzilla's(690).

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 14, 2015 wrote:
I'm looking through your eyes at this situation but because I am not a main storm, I see the outside affect. When I look at it from a storm's eyes, the first phrase that pops into my head is: Low pip spamming. Catch of the Day is plenty powerful for its number of pips and due to the rest of the storm spells. What I want to knowing why everyone whines about storm being underpowered and not the other schools. Now you may be thinking "Because the other schooled AREN'T underpowered". They are.

Take a look at Balance's samurai spell. It's not the greatest and does about the same, if not less, stuff than Catch of the Day. But no one whines about how unfair that is; but ya whine about storm. Why?
The reason is demonstrated by the very leaderboards we referenced in an earlier tread along with the experiences of PvP warlords who have thousands of matches of ranked PvP experience. Balance's samoorai does more damage per pip than typical for balance damage spells. Catch of the Day does significantly less damage per pip than storm spells typically do as the math I have shown you demonstrates.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 14, 2015 wrote:
The reason is demonstrated by the very leaderboards we referenced in an earlier tread along with the experiences of PvP warlords who have thousands of matches of ranked PvP experience. Balance's samoorai does more damage per pip than typical for balance damage spells. Catch of the Day does significantly less damage per pip than storm spells typically do as the math I have shown you demonstrates.
I already replied to this but i suppose it didn't go through. Once more, this will be my last post due to an ending membership.

First off; math involves solving a problem. Where's you're math on his trend, mate?

Second; maybe you could prove that samoori does more damage per pip to those of us who do not have the spell and aren't warlords.

Third; most warlords have really bad experience of ranked PvP. Just saying. The most skilled players in this game are the free members; the noobs as some people call them. They have the most experience in everything, not warlords.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jun 18, 2015 wrote:
I already replied to this but i suppose it didn't go through. Once more, this will be my last post due to an ending membership.

First off; math involves solving a problem. Where's you're math on his trend, mate?

Second; maybe you could prove that samoori does more damage per pip to those of us who do not have the spell and aren't warlords.

Third; most warlords have really bad experience of ranked PvP. Just saying. The most skilled players in this game are the free members; the noobs as some people call them. They have the most experience in everything, not warlords.
1) To see my math on this trend simply head on over to this thread: Catch of the Day underpowered.

2) Balance damage single target spells(trained) compared to samoorai:
Scarab: 85 dpp
Scorpion: 90 dpp
Locust Swarm: 92 dpp
Samoorai: 100 dpp

3) I'm not even sure what you are saying here. How are the most experienced members free members? How do warlords have bad experience in rank PvP- that statement itself is a blatant contradiction. I don't care who has the most experience in "everything" simply who has the most experience in PvP which is from where this discussion stems.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 18, 2015 wrote:
1) To see my math on this trend simply head on over to this thread: Catch of the Day underpowered.

2) Balance damage single target spells(trained) compared to samoorai:
Scarab: 85 dpp
Scorpion: 90 dpp
Locust Swarm: 92 dpp
Samoorai: 100 dpp

3) I'm not even sure what you are saying here. How are the most experienced members free members? How do warlords have bad experience in rank PvP- that statement itself is a blatant contradiction. I don't care who has the most experience in "everything" simply who has the most experience in PvP which is from where this discussion stems.
I suppose you would t know what I am saying because you have never been a Free member for more than maybe a month or two. When uve been a Free for a few years, you start seeing things differently, Eric. You see a certain balance in the schools. Then, when you reach exalted, you see plain chaos. And when u try Ranked PvP, you see chaos.

PvP is not as it used to be where the most skilled wizard takes the upper hand. Now, in some cases, that is true, but not most. Any ex-Free would know that.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow 343 on Jul 1, 2015 wrote:
I suppose you would t know what I am saying because you have never been a Free member for more than maybe a month or two. When uve been a Free for a few years, you start seeing things differently, Eric. You see a certain balance in the schools. Then, when you reach exalted, you see plain chaos. And when u try Ranked PvP, you see chaos.

PvP is not as it used to be where the most skilled wizard takes the upper hand. Now, in some cases, that is true, but not most. Any ex-Free would know that.
Lol I was a free to play member for the first few years of my wizard 101 career. Not that being Free to play has anything at all to do with Catch of the Day or general game knowledge....

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