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Please kill the stuns

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jul 09, 2008
9
Hello KI I am a pretty active player from the beta testing days. I have several accounts in my house from young to old from then as well. I dont have much left to do but play in the arena, but it is quickly dying for me. I get stunned over and over and over. I usually dont complain here but this time I thought it was the best idea because I am tired of being called names and being told I am a horrible dueler. Also the one big thing is they always blame it on you and I think no way would KI want to kill my fun they have been great so far and I dont believe this. So please please do something soon.

Administrator
Thank you for your input on the current state of the Player vs Player system.

I just wanted to let you know that we have changes to stun *in PvP* planned for a future update, and we are going to look at the 'treasure card factory' problem.




{o,o}
  |)_)
 -?-?-
Survivor
Dec 15, 2008
26
It is not just the stuns that are killing the PVP, it is all the bonus attacks these cards get, such as the high damage fire does and then it damages for like the next 3 turns still. I played a life person yesterday, they did their high level 48 card, not only did it heal a high amount, it gave an absorb card and healed additionally for several more turns.

The initial attack on these cards should be more than sufficient, please drop the bonus stuff on them.

FYI I am a level 48 storm, so I am not complaining from a lower level standpoint, although I do have a lower level also.


Survivor
Dec 21, 2008
39
To me stunning is a strategy as is tempest and judgement. I feel the problem with stunning comes from the treasure cards and the stunning bug. Please dont take stunning away from ice school they are by far the easiest to kill in the arena. I think a special deck for arena would be a good way to fix this problem. One that doesnt allow any treasure cards to be used except ones purchased at the arena.

Survivor
Jul 11, 2008
4
I have a fire wizard so I like the stuns. I never ever chain stun (stunning more than 1 time in a row). I like to play fair and enjoy my win when I do. However there are some players who say "well KI lets us do it." I really really don't want to lose my stun. With that said I really really really really want the ability to chain stun taken out. I do not think anyone should be able to stun someone 5 times in a row. The other night we we chain stunned by a 4v4 team 19 times in a row. Yes I said 19 times IN A ROW. This has really gotten out of hand.
I absolutely think stunning cards should not be able to be made into treasures, but I think a bit more needs to be done as well :-)
If I have a fire team (for example) that is 4v4 and we each can carry 7 stuns, that is 28 total stuns. 2 of us could stun 14 rounds, which is plenty for the other 2 to kill off the opposing team.
I think it would be a good idea to only let stuns work every other round for each team, especially since some on the level 48 spells stun now as well. For example if I stun this round, my team and I would not be able to stun next round (for example they could be grayed out). Or maybe if say Storm Lord was going to be used in the round after a stun it could do the damage still but not the stun (this way it does not limit the use of strong spells).

Mastermind
Oct 17, 2008
339
Personally, I don't even like my ice school stun spell, Freeze... I usually only put one in my deck, if any at all. As for the level 48 spell, I am only level 41 so I don't have it yet. Never even seen it...

Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
1
I used to be an active pvp. I really enjoyed it, until people started abusing the stun cards. I think its ok to stun once in a while and when you are on a team you can see what your teammates are going to use even if your not friends with the other teammates, so if you watch what you and your team is doing this can be avoided. I don’t think these cards should be removed but limiting then so they can not be abused. I think this is a FANTASTIC idea. I don’t think these cards should be removed because SOME people can not play fair. I don’t think that would be right to punish everyone for mistakes made by other people.
Also I have heard that they are going to start doing a top ten players on pvp, but if people are using chain stuns in battles that they should be disqualified form being able to take part in this event. For ex. I was in a 4vs4 battle the night before last and the other team was all warlords. We were chain stunned for all most the entire game. Not only were they chain stunning us but this team had really bad sportsmanship talking all kinds to trash calling us losers and criticizing us for using the only few attacks that we could get in. It was brutal. I have talked to over friends that have also played this team and had a similar experience. I think people like that should have their ranks removed, or battle Privileges remove for a certain amount of time as punishment for abusing the game.

Explorer
Nov 26, 2008
60
I say keep stuns, if you completely get rid of them storm ice fire and myth all loose cards( and storm and ice's 7 pip spells have less damage in order to stun )

Personally i say is to have an awaken Status given to crown items and arena gear. What this will do is give a chance of resisting a stun. Thus making chain stuns not always work.

Survivor
Dec 31, 2008
41
I am usually the first to tell people to not complain about a spell now that they are in the crosshairs instead of the monsters, but some people do have a point.

The 7 pip spells should be left alone. Short of someone waiting until they have near all power pips, they aren't going to be able to chain stun you with those, at which time you know something horrible is about to happen to you, you've had a free pass for awhile.

A side note, none of the 7 pip cards are over powered. The only real issue is the fact people are being hit with them before they have their 7 pip spell to balance things out, but that is for another thread.

I am not a fan of the low pip spells that stun. Freeze isn't as bad, zero pip and it is one target it is only slightly an issue in one on one matches, but then you both are building up pips.

The two issues I see, are the stun multiple people ones for two pips. Choke being the one that comes to mind. It hasn't been an issue for me yet, but if my current Ice character was a fire character instead, the rate I get power pips, I could fill my treasure deck with sniper or keen eyed chokes and just spend my game shutting down the other side. I play CCG's and I've played these lock down decks before, so I know how much of an NPE it is. In other games there are counters you could put into your deck, in this case, there isn't.

I'm very reluctant to say this, but I'd say a quick fix to this issue would be to have a turn of immunity to stun. So if your stunned this turn, nothing will stun you next turn. Not a garunteed spell success, just a block for the stun effect. And the last thing, I don't know if it is the case or not, but if stunning makes you pass, you shouldn't lose the card, it should be still in your hand to be used next round.

I feel treasure cards are important, though a bit too easy at this point, and the ease at which stunning can shut an entire match down if you spend a little time to prep, something needs to be done. I'd say weaken stunning before you consider pulling treasure cards. And maybe even reign in the treasure cards. I could very easily be swinging storm lord with my level 16 storm wizard, but then the reason I'm dueling with my 16 would be missed.

Stunning and stopping someone for a turn is an important key to combat, the schools that can do it can often use it to snatch victory from defeat, but it shouldn't be a required stragety to win. It should be a trick thrown in to buy time or to break up someone's rythmn so you can try and get the upper hand. If he has no way to defend himself then it isn't a good card.

Survivor
Feb 01, 2009
4
Gamma wrote:
Thank you for your input on the current state of the Player vs Player system.

I just wanted to let you know that we have changes to stun *in PvP* planned for a future update, and we are going to look at the 'treasure card factory' problem.




HELLO! I am sry for responding to this message board so late, but recently i have started competeing in the arena alot. i am a grandmaster ice wizard. when i started we didnt have the final spells now we do and all i hear is people talking about chain stunning. i persnally do not believe in it, but if there are going to be changes then all final spells should be looked at including rebirth. me and a friend lost a very tough match just yesterday. we both are ice wizards and refused to chain stun though if we had we could have just by doing one chain stun. but still we have honor, we lost due to four rebirths in a row! i am sry it may just be me down over over losing a fight, but come on! that is something that is less fair than any chain stun! me and my partner ran out of cards! if KI plans on fixing things in the arena then rebirth should be looked at also! really the best way to fix these problems would just to not allow the final spells in the arena that way everyone will be happy. really all the final spells have major advantages in the arena. or if not that then allow people to use final spells with no fear of a negative reaction!
Jonathan Icewhisper

Grandmaster Thaumatugre

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
</div>
</blockquote>
HELLO! I am sry for responding to this message board so late, but recently i have started competeing in the arena alot. i am a grandmaster ice wizard. when i started we didnt have the final spells now we do and all i hear is people talking about chain stunning. i persnally do not believe in it, but if there are going to be changes then all final spells should be looked at including rebirth. me and a friend lost a very tough match just yesterday. we both are ice wizards and refused to chain stun though if we had we could have just by doing one chain stun. but still we have honor, we lost due to four rebirths in a row! i am sry it may just be me down over over losing a fight, but come on! that is something that is less fair than any chain stun! me and my partner ran out of cards! if KI plans on fixing things in the arena then rebirth should be looked at also! really the best way to fix these problems would just to not allow the final spells in the arena that way everyone will be happy. really all the final spells have major advantages in the arena. or if not that then allow people to use final spells with no fear of a negative reaction!
Jonathan Icewhisper

Grandmaster Thaumatugre
</div>
</blockquote>

Rebirth, unlike chain stuns, are easily countered. You can either use doom and gloom to cut the amount healed by half, use death attacks to ignore the absorb shields, and/or use attacks like earthquake to remove them. Against shain stuns, however, there is absolutely no defense. :-(

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Survivor
Nov 26, 2008
37
You guys are right. The stun-all spells should have a limit. I have went in the arena today and this guy named Carlos ShadowFlame was chain-stunning my team with Choke. He cheats and chain-stunners should have their rank moved down to Private and learn how to duel the fair way as in punishment for cheating.

Survivor
May 10, 2009
24
GoodWill wrote:
You guys are right. The stun-all spells should have a limit. I have went in the arena today and this guy named Carlos ShadowFlame was chain-stunning my team with Choke. He cheats and chain-stunners should have their rank moved down to Private and learn how to duel the fair way as in punishment for cheating.


Taking advantage of a spell is not a "cheat." Just because the makers of the game did not see the potential of this being a issue in the arena does not make the players using it a cheater. I think the only reason you are upset is because your wizard does not have the spells to take advantage of this system.

Stunning does make matches hard and boring/irritating, but they are not cheating by doing so, what they are doing is using game mechanices to their advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

Survivor
Feb 18, 2009
1
Carlos ShadowFlame level 50 fire
Lauren OwlBright level 50 fire
Lagon level 40 something balance
Fiona all i could catch was ice

Some of these people are on the new top 100 arena players and they are chain stun every single turn i lost my warlord rank because of them and many other people lose to them. I'm a level 50 fire and i have stun and think it should be removed. I have never used stun while fighting creatures while leveling up so i think it is use less anyways. Please remove any stun effects from the game.

Explorer
Sep 02, 2008
73
I have a grandmaster fire and my vote is to reomove ALL stun spell effects out of the game but try and replace the stuns with something worth while.

When I dueled I had choke cards in my deck but would try not to use it unless the other team got stun happy with chain stuns.

Fizzles are bad enough without having stuns within the game.

How would players feel if the monsters cast stun spells in the game against the wizards?

Survivor
Feb 01, 2009
4
cbfan14 wrote:

HELLO! I am sry for responding to this message board so late, but recently i have started competeing in the arena alot. i am a grandmaster ice wizard. when i started we didnt have the final spells now we do and all i hear is people talking about chain stunning. i persnally do not believe in it, but if there are going to be changes then all final spells should be looked at including rebirth. me and a friend lost a very tough match just yesterday. we both are ice wizards and refused to chain stun though if we had we could have just by doing one chain stun. but still we have honor, we lost due to four rebirths in a row! i am sry it may just be me down over over losing a fight, but come on! that is something that is less fair than any chain stun! me and my partner ran out of cards! if KI plans on fixing things in the arena then rebirth should be looked at also! really the best way to fix these problems would just to not allow the final spells in the arena that way everyone will be happy. really all the final spells have major advantages in the arena. or if not that then allow people to use final spells with no fear of a negative reaction!
Jonathan Icewhisper

Grandmaster Thaumatugre
</div>
</blockquote>

Rebirth, unlike chain stuns, are easily countered. You can either use doom and gloom to cut the amount healed by half, use death attacks to ignore the absorb shields, and/or use attacks like earthquake to remove them. Against shain stuns, however, there is absolutely no defense. :-(

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer</div>
</blockquote>

you have a very good point! the only problems is though that not all players have the ability to use drain spells, such as the one used by death. so for the ones who can not use drain we have spend all of our cards just take off the defenses! so once again ! if they are allowed to use spells such as rebirth with no negative reaction why shouldnt people be allowed to chain stun?

Survivor
Feb 01, 2009
4
Firefly555 wrote:
To me stunning is a strategy as is tempest and judgement. I feel the problem with stunning comes from the treasure cards and the stunning bug. Please dont take stunning away from ice school they are by far the easiest to kill in the arena. I think a special deck for arena would be a good way to fix this problem. One that doesnt allow any treasure cards to be used except ones purchased at the arena.


that would be a great idea! you have made good points! but the only problem is that ice school wizards are not that easy to kill lol!
Jonathan Icewhisper
GrandMaster Thaumaturge


Survivor
Nov 26, 2008
37
You guys are all right. I think their should at least have a limit on all-stun spells, like choke and blinding light. I personally think that cheating is not fair way to duel, when people get a way with it. Even if you put a limit, and they still happen to chain stun, I think they should be banned from PvP for a certain amount of time OR have their rank down to Private as punishment for cheating. I know a few chain stunners and one of them happened to be my friend but she didn't care if she chain stunned or cheated.

Carlos ShadowFlame (Grandmaster of Fire)
Lauren OwlBright (Grandmaster of Fire)
These two players are abusing the cards/system. Chain stunning shows that people do not know how to win, have no talent of even trying to win, and are considered losers. I think chain stunning is a bad, cheating, strategy to win. I even think Lauren (my friend I used to know) felt guilty of stunning as well. But its not her fault because its what he teammates tell her what to do. So, I don't blame her and neither should you. The only suspect is now Carlos and some other chain stunners I don't know as yet.

I am now having a very difficult time reaching to the Commander rank. My rank keeps dropping and winning, as I keep winning and losing. Its pretty disappointing to see you lose a match. But sometimes in life, you just gotta let it go. ;)

Explorer
Dec 21, 2008
75
People! Chain stunning is a STRATEGY! Its not cheating! 4 Rebirths is ANOTHER strategy! Neither of these are cheats! Like someone else said, " Chain stunning is another strategy, like Tempest and Judgement", so, I dont think you should be taking away choke, freeze, blinding light ETC. Please! People! Stop ruining arena strategy's because your losing! Thats not ok! I love going to the arena, and i have had my bad times with things like that! But i dont care! You win some and you lose some! The arena is fine the way it is! No one should lsoe their ranks! If you dont like having stunners, then dont do the arena! If you want to ruin other wizards fun because your losing, thats sick! Why should WE suffer for YOUR requests??? Thats not fair to epopel such as Carlos, Stunning is a good strategy! Find your own strategy! So, if you agree with me, quote me and add your name to my list!

LIST
Blake LionFlame Grandmaster Pyromancer

Survivor
Feb 13, 2009
16
I'm an ice wizard, and i really like the stun spell. i dont use it in a chain though. I agree that there should be a limit, but latley thats what most of the rants are about. Dont just complain about the stun spell, there shouldnt be any chains at all its just not right. The stuns shouldnt be taken out all together.

Survivor
Mar 02, 2009
14
So I sit here and i read this and I find taht the only guy i agree with was the one that said simply don't let the lvl 48 spells in the arena. Chain stunning is bad, it ruins everyones fun and promotes cheating and lying and bad sportsmanship to the kids. So why allow it. Quite honestly KI i believe that if you had a report button in arena,(yes you would have to watch it closely, but could refrain from losing any profit and i know several people that have left, one i keep in contact with through another online game i play, from leaving due to the horrible arena)

Don't take out stuns, don't take out rebirth, don't take out any spells, it is a way to play But as I feel that Chains should not be used twice ina row, neither should rebirth, neither should anything.


And yes not everyone has the ablility to make healing lower, but then you look at it this way, not everyone has ablility to stun.

and with the treasure cards, i do not understand

what is this treasure card factory problem. Is it so bad for me on my life wizard to make friends rebirth so they can have fun in PvE? Or on my Balance to make it power nova to make a malistare fight easier for a friend.

Well thats my two or five cents on thsi


Survivor
Oct 26, 2008
33
Alright, let's get this straight. Chain Stunning is NOT a strategy. Your opponents don't get to play cards. It is Completely different than Judgement, Rebirth, Tempest, or any other card.

Of the cards mentioned above, only choke/blinding light prevent the other team from playing cards, and at two pips can be cast every round. Using them from treasure cards with keen eyes on them, the base accuracy is 90%, and with any accuracy clothing means they will rarely if ever fizzle.

Something needs to be done with the group stuns, (maybe a resist category so it has a chance to not work, or increase them to four pips, though the latter allows for multiple wizards to still chain stun by taking turns.), but until it is fixed keep an eye out for the chain stun teams, and avoid them as best you can.

The level 48 spells are mostly balanced. If a rebirth is cast, any of the other level 48 spells will take down the absorb shield, deal a little damage and generate their secondary effect, or in the case of scarecrow bypass the shield.

To the poster above who mentioned four rebirths being cast in a row...considering that it is a 7 pip spell, that's not possible unless there are two life wizards, and then worst case it is annoying to get through the shields, but it is just a delay. The two wizards that cast two rebirths each have no pips to attack after that, so you can pound away at their defenses.


Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
The problem I see with removing all the level 48 spells is that it would bascially be punishing the whole class for a few misbehaving children; it's only gonna create more problems and more complaining because not all of the 48 spells are so broken as people say they are. For one, scarecrow is THE ONLY SPELL DEATH HAS THAT IS AOE, and they've badly needed it (otherwise they suck big time in group pvp). Second, its not just frost giant and storm lord that's creating the chain stuns. Chain stuns have been around before the level 48 spells were released (freeze, choke, blinding light, and stun), so removing these high level spells isn't going to fix the main problem. Finally, the best solution to rebirth is to make into an attack spell since life wizards are SCREAMING FOR ANOTHER ATTACK SPELL.

Explorer
Mar 11, 2009
83
I am only level 46 but it ruins the match for me. I have actually left my computer and went to get a snack since I can not do anything. I will NOT flee, if they want a win like that they will work for it!

I have now decided to only watch in the arena because of this problem. Do I think stun spells should be removed? No. I just think there should be a limit to how many can be cast so these chain stunning teams can not take advantage of these spells. Or, maybe a shield can be created that blocks the stun effect of those spells. That would give a wizard a more fair chance against these spells.

I was watching a match and a wizard came in as a spectator and called out one of the teams that did that to him and his friends and challenged one guy to a rematch. The guy was so angry and he was typing in caps to get the offending team's attention. I felt bad for him. This is causing a lot of bad feelings between members. I also see people talking about remembering the names of the offending teams so they will never battle them again. So sad in a game that is supposed to be fun.

Survivor
Sep 11, 2008
23
Look, stunning is a great strategy in stopping the foe from attacking defending, buffing, ect. But the point is, is that even if you want to stun other opposing players or enemies, you(and I and all the other wizards with stunning spells) don't know if that spell(like blinding light, choke, and storm lord) will fizzle. I'm not saying stunning spells are bad or good, I'm just saying that there is no such thing as any spell that cheats or has a bad effect. Yes, I do respect all of your opinions about that stunning spells are bad, but to be honest, all ya got to do with spells that you think are "worthless", just strategize. And this goes for all of the spells, not just stunning because every school has like over 101 ways of strategizing with their main focus of spells.(i.e. having a deck that focuses on aura spells[my favorite ] such as heck hound, link, fire elf, frostbite, storm hound, scald, Fire Dragon, you get the idea.) So you kind of get what I'm saying