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Nerf Efreet

AuthorMessage
Delver
Mar 09, 2018
260
The title is very self explanatory, efreet needs a nerf and needs it extremely badly. A -90% weakness from an 8 pip spell that does nearly 900 base damage without an enchant at level 58 is horrible for the game. This spell runs the show at legendary when facing fire wizards, and is a game-ender at max when combined with 160+ damage strats, using a fire elf to remove shields, and going into shrike with an infal pet. All this together completely immobilizes a player, because they can't keep shielding due to the fire elf overtime, if they do shield it can just be pierced right through with Fire's crazy high pierce and meta infal pets, and Efreet makes it so that if your back is against a wall you literally cannot even fight back.

I've been getting better at Storm PvP at max recently and let me tell you, I win most of my matches against non-Fire wizards. There's the occasional Ice that just crits 2 aboms in shrike but at least they take TONS of lash if they do that. With Fire, I can play super aggressively and hit them a bunch of times with shad hits, bolts, and other high damage spells that I have as a storm. I even hit through shields because my pierce is so high. But when I get that fire wizard to 539 health and I'm just about to Calypso him for the kill, he efreets me and now I have to dig for either a bolt or a rain beetle. Even if I do get it, he's already got the FFA in hand and crits it and does 3/4 of my health through a shield, then follows it up with a fire elf so I can't shield anymore. One more hit, typically a brim or a scorch depending on if he has that second shad or not, will kill me. They can literally escape any situation by efreeting into 2 shads.

There's a fair amount of complains about Abominable Weaver but I really don't think it needs to be nerfed aside from reducing the shield to maybe 55% instead of 75%. You get this at Exalted, and by then your pierce should be around 30-35 which is enough to do what it needs to do to mitigate the shield. I'm an Ice main so call me biased, but with everyone setting for Ice and carrying Ice dispels it doesn't need to receive the Lore treatment and become a useless spell like Wings of Fate. It just needs a slight nerf, not something crazy like -300 damage and 30% shield.

My proposed Efreet nerf is simply to reduce the damage by 50 and reduce the weakness to 50%. That way, it's still a good offense/defense card, but is a lot more balanced at legendary and doesn't act as a get out of jail free card at max.

To compensate the fire wizards going WAAAAHHH right now, I think Rampage should be brought back down to 2 turns instead of 3 due to the turn based update. Adds back a good mechanic for fires to use and not have to rely on brainless moves.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
JewelKI on May 27, 2020 wrote:
The title is very self explanatory, efreet needs a nerf and needs it extremely badly. A -90% weakness from an 8 pip spell that does nearly 900 base damage without an enchant at level 58 is horrible for the game. This spell runs the show at legendary when facing fire wizards, and is a game-ender at max when combined with 160+ damage strats, using a fire elf to remove shields, and going into shrike with an infal pet. All this together completely immobilizes a player, because they can't keep shielding due to the fire elf overtime, if they do shield it can just be pierced right through with Fire's crazy high pierce and meta infal pets, and Efreet makes it so that if your back is against a wall you literally cannot even fight back.

I've been getting better at Storm PvP at max recently and let me tell you, I win most of my matches against non-Fire wizards. There's the occasional Ice that just crits 2 aboms in shrike but at least they take TONS of lash if they do that. With Fire, I can play super aggressively and hit them a bunch of times with shad hits, bolts, and other high damage spells that I have as a storm. I even hit through shields because my pierce is so high. But when I get that fire wizard to 539 health and I'm just about to Calypso him for the kill, he efreets me and now I have to dig for either a bolt or a rain beetle. Even if I do get it, he's already got the FFA in hand and crits it and does 3/4 of my health through a shield, then follows it up with a fire elf so I can't shield anymore. One more hit, typically a brim or a scorch depending on if he has that second shad or not, will kill me. They can literally escape any situation by efreeting into 2 shads.

There's a fair amount of complains about Abominable Weaver but I really don't think it needs to be nerfed aside from reducing the shield to maybe 55% instead of 75%. You get this at Exalted, and by then your pierce should be around 30-35 which is enough to do what it needs to do to mitigate the shield. I'm an Ice main so call me biased, but with everyone setting for Ice and carrying Ice dispels it doesn't need to receive the Lore treatment and become a useless spell like Wings of Fate. It just needs a slight nerf, not something crazy like -300 damage and 30% shield.

My proposed Efreet nerf is simply to reduce the damage by 50 and reduce the weakness to 50%. That way, it's still a good offense/defense card, but is a lot more balanced at legendary and doesn't act as a get out of jail free card at max.

To compensate the fire wizards going WAAAAHHH right now, I think Rampage should be brought back down to 2 turns instead of 3 due to the turn based update. Adds back a good mechanic for fires to use and not have to rely on brainless moves.
For one thing it hasn't gotten better than storm pvp it already was better than storm pvp wise, since the Efreet initial release. How no one sees this is an issue is beyond me. My only suggesting to balance efreet without killing the school damage wise, is to keep the damage but nerf the weakness down to 25%. It doesn't make sense how you should be able to do so much damage on a damage school and get a big defensive utility for it. So either that or remove it completely and change it into a reg fire trap. Or they pay -25% of their own heath to use it how about that? cause last time i check death has to do that for their own juju. So for fire to get a free juju on a damage spell xD tells you much about why fire is a dominant force in pvp. And the day its remove your gonna realize a major difference with fire pvp.

Mastermind
Mar 19, 2011
341
JewelKI on May 27, 2020 wrote:
The title is very self explanatory, efreet needs a nerf and needs it extremely badly. A -90% weakness from an 8 pip spell that does nearly 900 base damage without an enchant at level 58 is horrible for the game. This spell runs the show at legendary when facing fire wizards, and is a game-ender at max when combined with 160+ damage strats, using a fire elf to remove shields, and going into shrike with an infal pet. All this together completely immobilizes a player, because they can't keep shielding due to the fire elf overtime, if they do shield it can just be pierced right through with Fire's crazy high pierce and meta infal pets, and Efreet makes it so that if your back is against a wall you literally cannot even fight back.

I've been getting better at Storm PvP at max recently and let me tell you, I win most of my matches against non-Fire wizards. There's the occasional Ice that just crits 2 aboms in shrike but at least they take TONS of lash if they do that. With Fire, I can play super aggressively and hit them a bunch of times with shad hits, bolts, and other high damage spells that I have as a storm. I even hit through shields because my pierce is so high. But when I get that fire wizard to 539 health and I'm just about to Calypso him for the kill, he efreets me and now I have to dig for either a bolt or a rain beetle. Even if I do get it, he's already got the FFA in hand and crits it and does 3/4 of my health through a shield, then follows it up with a fire elf so I can't shield anymore. One more hit, typically a brim or a scorch depending on if he has that second shad or not, will kill me. They can literally escape any situation by efreeting into 2 shads.

There's a fair amount of complains about Abominable Weaver but I really don't think it needs to be nerfed aside from reducing the shield to maybe 55% instead of 75%. You get this at Exalted, and by then your pierce should be around 30-35 which is enough to do what it needs to do to mitigate the shield. I'm an Ice main so call me biased, but with everyone setting for Ice and carrying Ice dispels it doesn't need to receive the Lore treatment and become a useless spell like Wings of Fate. It just needs a slight nerf, not something crazy like -300 damage and 30% shield.

My proposed Efreet nerf is simply to reduce the damage by 50 and reduce the weakness to 50%. That way, it's still a good offense/defense card, but is a lot more balanced at legendary and doesn't act as a get out of jail free card at max.

To compensate the fire wizards going WAAAAHHH right now, I think Rampage should be brought back down to 2 turns instead of 3 due to the turn based update. Adds back a good mechanic for fires to use and not have to rely on brainless moves.
I only PvP at max level, which is currently 130. I PvP as Balance, but am working on my Life character.

Playing as a Balance wizard, I have found there are several counter moves to Efreet and Abominable Weaver. A Storm wizard would have even better options.

Efreet is a great spell and I fear it, but the poor Fire Wizard playing against me has to give up eight whole pips and hope that my "deck doesn't work."

I can't think of any spell from any school that I especially want nerfed. The double damage conditions for Storm and Myth Scion seem a little "too easy" to me sometimes, but that just means I need to play better against those schools.

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Liam Swiftwalker on May 27, 2020 wrote:
I only PvP at max level, which is currently 130. I PvP as Balance, but am working on my Life character.

Playing as a Balance wizard, I have found there are several counter moves to Efreet and Abominable Weaver. A Storm wizard would have even better options.

Efreet is a great spell and I fear it, but the poor Fire Wizard playing against me has to give up eight whole pips and hope that my "deck doesn't work."

I can't think of any spell from any school that I especially want nerfed. The double damage conditions for Storm and Myth Scion seem a little "too easy" to me sometimes, but that just means I need to play better against those schools.
I agree with you about myth and storm scion conditions being way too easy but this doesn't negate the fact that Efreet and weaver are 2 completely broken spells and in any mode ( especially turn based) these spells are complete 360 underwhelming. Also ofc balance wouldnt have much trouble because can control their opponents pips and only have to worry about universal shields so for the most part they wand or shrike to just hit through them.

Explorer
Mar 01, 2014
62
JewelKI on May 27, 2020 wrote:
The title is very self explanatory, efreet needs a nerf and needs it extremely badly. A -90% weakness from an 8 pip spell that does nearly 900 base damage without an enchant at level 58 is horrible for the game. This spell runs the show at legendary when facing fire wizards, and is a game-ender at max when combined with 160+ damage strats, using a fire elf to remove shields, and going into shrike with an infal pet. All this together completely immobilizes a player, because they can't keep shielding due to the fire elf overtime, if they do shield it can just be pierced right through with Fire's crazy high pierce and meta infal pets, and Efreet makes it so that if your back is against a wall you literally cannot even fight back.

I've been getting better at Storm PvP at max recently and let me tell you, I win most of my matches against non-Fire wizards. There's the occasional Ice that just crits 2 aboms in shrike but at least they take TONS of lash if they do that. With Fire, I can play super aggressively and hit them a bunch of times with shad hits, bolts, and other high damage spells that I have as a storm. I even hit through shields because my pierce is so high. But when I get that fire wizard to 539 health and I'm just about to Calypso him for the kill, he efreets me and now I have to dig for either a bolt or a rain beetle. Even if I do get it, he's already got the FFA in hand and crits it and does 3/4 of my health through a shield, then follows it up with a fire elf so I can't shield anymore. One more hit, typically a brim or a scorch depending on if he has that second shad or not, will kill me. They can literally escape any situation by efreeting into 2 shads.

There's a fair amount of complains about Abominable Weaver but I really don't think it needs to be nerfed aside from reducing the shield to maybe 55% instead of 75%. You get this at Exalted, and by then your pierce should be around 30-35 which is enough to do what it needs to do to mitigate the shield. I'm an Ice main so call me biased, but with everyone setting for Ice and carrying Ice dispels it doesn't need to receive the Lore treatment and become a useless spell like Wings of Fate. It just needs a slight nerf, not something crazy like -300 damage and 30% shield.

My proposed Efreet nerf is simply to reduce the damage by 50 and reduce the weakness to 50%. That way, it's still a good offense/defense card, but is a lot more balanced at legendary and doesn't act as a get out of jail free card at max.

To compensate the fire wizards going WAAAAHHH right now, I think Rampage should be brought back down to 2 turns instead of 3 due to the turn based update. Adds back a good mechanic for fires to use and not have to rely on brainless moves.
it's still 8 pips. i can agree with the damage but 50? no you can have it at 70% take it or leave it. you can use a shield right before it and be fine. and it's not like this spell is 5 PIPS *COUGH COUGH* like some other spells *COUGH WEAVER COUGH*

Delver
Mar 09, 2018
260
xTsuin on Jun 12, 2020 wrote:
it's still 8 pips. i can agree with the damage but 50? no you can have it at 70% take it or leave it. you can use a shield right before it and be fine. and it's not like this spell is 5 PIPS *COUGH COUGH* like some other spells *COUGH WEAVER COUGH*
Honestly 70% isn't too bad. You can still deal adequate damage with it, especially if it's a game-ending hit.

Survivor
Oct 30, 2016
1
JewelKI on May 27, 2020 wrote:
The title is very self explanatory, efreet needs a nerf and needs it extremely badly. A -90% weakness from an 8 pip spell that does nearly 900 base damage without an enchant at level 58 is horrible for the game. This spell runs the show at legendary when facing fire wizards, and is a game-ender at max when combined with 160+ damage strats, using a fire elf to remove shields, and going into shrike with an infal pet. All this together completely immobilizes a player, because they can't keep shielding due to the fire elf overtime, if they do shield it can just be pierced right through with Fire's crazy high pierce and meta infal pets, and Efreet makes it so that if your back is against a wall you literally cannot even fight back.

I've been getting better at Storm PvP at max recently and let me tell you, I win most of my matches against non-Fire wizards. There's the occasional Ice that just crits 2 aboms in shrike but at least they take TONS of lash if they do that. With Fire, I can play super aggressively and hit them a bunch of times with shad hits, bolts, and other high damage spells that I have as a storm. I even hit through shields because my pierce is so high. But when I get that fire wizard to 539 health and I'm just about to Calypso him for the kill, he efreets me and now I have to dig for either a bolt or a rain beetle. Even if I do get it, he's already got the FFA in hand and crits it and does 3/4 of my health through a shield, then follows it up with a fire elf so I can't shield anymore. One more hit, typically a brim or a scorch depending on if he has that second shad or not, will kill me. They can literally escape any situation by efreeting into 2 shads.

There's a fair amount of complains about Abominable Weaver but I really don't think it needs to be nerfed aside from reducing the shield to maybe 55% instead of 75%. You get this at Exalted, and by then your pierce should be around 30-35 which is enough to do what it needs to do to mitigate the shield. I'm an Ice main so call me biased, but with everyone setting for Ice and carrying Ice dispels it doesn't need to receive the Lore treatment and become a useless spell like Wings of Fate. It just needs a slight nerf, not something crazy like -300 damage and 30% shield.

My proposed Efreet nerf is simply to reduce the damage by 50 and reduce the weakness to 50%. That way, it's still a good offense/defense card, but is a lot more balanced at legendary and doesn't act as a get out of jail free card at max.

To compensate the fire wizards going WAAAAHHH right now, I think Rampage should be brought back down to 2 turns instead of 3 due to the turn based update. Adds back a good mechanic for fires to use and not have to rely on brainless moves.
efreet poopy

Explorer
Aug 04, 2019
57
xTsuin on Jun 12, 2020 wrote:
it's still 8 pips. i can agree with the damage but 50? no you can have it at 70% take it or leave it. you can use a shield right before it and be fine. and it's not like this spell is 5 PIPS *COUGH COUGH* like some other spells *COUGH WEAVER COUGH*
70 percent won't change anything and it would basically be pointless to change the spell if that's all you're going to change. It will be treated as -90 unless the opponent about to die and you can kill it but other than that, it would be a useless change.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
JewelKI on Jun 13, 2020 wrote:
Honestly 70% isn't too bad. You can still deal adequate damage with it, especially if it's a game-ending hit.
25% is the most acceptance on a mass damage spell any damage class should have. Anything beyond that point should be a mantle and an rng one at that in the hands of fire.

Survivor
Apr 21, 2011
42
Efreet is easier to counter as a Balance wizard, but it's still overpowered.

Compare it to the Balance King Art spell-- there's a clear difference in damage and utility that "school differences" can't account for. They are the same number of pips! Yes, King Art gives a pierce blade, but I don't think a 10% pierce blades makes up for a 50% difference in the weakness. Not to mention the damage difference; the damage difference makes sense because of Fire vs Balance play styles but if you want to make each spell fair, you need to give Balance more to make up for it, especially since Balance doesn't have another 8-pip single hit like other schools. I think slightly buffing the weakness on the Balance King Art (maybe to 50 or 55) and slightly nerfing the weakness on Efreet (bringing it down to 70 or 75) would make it more fair, since Balance is a weakness school to begin with. Especially given the Lore weakness nerf, it only seems fair. King Art isn't spammable in the same way.

Survivor
Jul 24, 2010
2
Its pvp there is always going to be some kind of cheese somewhere

Mastermind
Mar 19, 2011
341
wakaflame201 on Jun 6, 2020 wrote:
I agree with you about myth and storm scion conditions being way too easy but this doesn't negate the fact that Efreet and weaver are 2 completely broken spells and in any mode ( especially turn based) these spells are complete 360 underwhelming. Also ofc balance wouldnt have much trouble because can control their opponents pips and only have to worry about universal shields so for the most part they wand or shrike to just hit through them.
I actually keep four Midnight Sprites and some Empower TC in my side deck for those.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
Efreet imho is still a little to on the strong side and still acts like a stall spell. For a spell that does 700 base unenchanted or 1000 enchanted to leave a -45% is very questionable.

Survivor
Sep 14, 2019
26
angellifeheart on Aug 16, 2020 wrote:
Efreet imho is still a little to on the strong side and still acts like a stall spell. For a spell that does 700 base unenchanted or 1000 enchanted to leave a -45% is very questionable.
HI Angel LifeHeart

You know it even with King Art from the balance school and I kinda disagree about efreet -45 Efreet as a stall I almost beat a fire wizard as a Ice Max wizard.

I think balance and fire both kinda have a Efreet to me.

Balance has a King Art that gives a -45 blade and now so does fire Efreet.

You know you can't get everything you want on this game your own way.

Tasha always be family friendly to others players.

Survivor
Nov 25, 2019
29
All people do now is use the coppout 90 efreet, this nerf was so lazy, nothing has been changed.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
Mikudollsdeath on Sep 7, 2020 wrote:
HI Angel LifeHeart

You know it even with King Art from the balance school and I kinda disagree about efreet -45 Efreet as a stall I almost beat a fire wizard as a Ice Max wizard.

I think balance and fire both kinda have a Efreet to me.

Balance has a King Art that gives a -45 blade and now so does fire Efreet.

You know you can't get everything you want on this game your own way.

Tasha always be family friendly to others players.
Am not looking at the balance school when I think of efreet. I am just looking at a damage school with damage close to that of storm and enough burst as storm to have a spell that leaves a big weakness.
Balance king art should give more weakness than efreet but less damage.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
Professional Wizhe... on Sep 8, 2020 wrote:
All people do now is use the coppout 90 efreet, this nerf was so lazy, nothing has been changed.
The same can be said about fire beetle. Whats the point of nerfing anything or rebalancing if there are ways for players to bypass it.. Hopefully they can fix this soon.

Survivor
Sep 14, 2019
26
angellifeheart on Sep 9, 2020 wrote:
Am not looking at the balance school when I think of efreet. I am just looking at a damage school with damage close to that of storm and enough burst as storm to have a spell that leaves a big weakness.
Balance king art should give more weakness than efreet but less damage.
Hi Angel LifeHeart

I think it a good nerf for fire and fire has to be second to storm because it also a damage school.

a -45 on a fire that only does 1,000 damage with a enchant on a max ice wizard without full dragon's ice armor yet.

I think it a good fix Kingsisle did the right the and nerfing the weakness to me.

Now it easier for all the other wizards to beat the fire wizard pretty easy to be honest.

Or do you want king art to have a -90 spell for balance?

Just asking.

I think it was a good nerf so Efreet is a fair to play in rank pvp and equal with balance Kings Art.

so be happy Kingsisle nerfed how they did.

You can't always have what you wanted so just deal with it and be happy where fire Efreet or just be a nice 4 year old and be quit like a angel kid.

Tasha lvl 70 be family friendly instead of a bully user

Delver
Mar 09, 2018
260
Professional Wizhe... on Sep 8, 2020 wrote:
All people do now is use the coppout 90 efreet, this nerf was so lazy, nothing has been changed.
yea idrk what the devs were thinking not taking out the existing -90s. they're even still farmable. all the old tc need to get changed, if they can change the shadow tcs then they can just as easily change the 7-10 pip spells

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2425
JewelKI on Sep 14, 2020 wrote:
yea idrk what the devs were thinking not taking out the existing -90s. they're even still farmable. all the old tc need to get changed, if they can change the shadow tcs then they can just as easily change the 7-10 pip spells
They can and said they will.

https://www.wizard101.com/game/dev-diary/spell-balance-audit