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Critical Heal Nerfs,Jades, and Shrike

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 18, 2013
1
So I just lost a match tonight. Wanna know how? I was 2nd, and I had used a shrike to beat a jade in a 2v2 tourney. So on my last round, poison killed, AKA their head was spinning, their HP was zero(0), zilch, nada, non-existent. But guess what happened next? My shrike backlash did 20 more damage than my health. Why is it that on the last round of shrike, backlash kills now? Why make that decision? Kingsisle continues to make decisions that nobody asks for.
Falmea, Ratbeard, Mattnetic wants feedback on PvP, so I want to post this here. Remove jade gear of any kind, keepers lore pack gear, spooky carnival, the baddle of the bands one shot gauntlet boots, etc. We do need a nerf to crit healing, but 1.3x is too low, even PvP based players like awesome sauce think its bad; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeCVzR0fgRk&t=626s
A good nerf to this would be 1.5-1.8x(which is barely acceptable). There is no reason a heal should do the same as a critical, when a one bladed scion with galvanic and shrike can do 8.5k(It's the same for other schools as well, but this is an example) and a tc satyr can't do more than 2.8k with 59 incoming and a critical with 8.2k health. We need some push/pull here. You say you're here to make PvP better, so take PvP suggestions from people who've been playing since the release date on 2008, and PvPing since first age ever started(like me). This isn't my first account, and it is 1 of 3 I own. I am a mostly PvP based player, I farm to PvP, I quest to PvP, I get spells to PvP, I garden to make pets for PvP. None of my actions on any of my 3 accounts are made for anything other than PvP. I have 3 lvl 66 warlords, 7 lvl 100+ warlords, and 5 lvl 50 warlords. I total over 2,000 matches between all accounts on just this age. With each character having a 60-95% winrate(my lvl 66 myth is 99-39 for example, and my lvl 100 ice is 60-10).

Now.... Let's talk about jades. This new healing nerf caused lifes who were previously crit/dmg based(like my lvl 100 life with 91 dmg 100% critical and 40 resist)to jade. Kingsisle wants to nerf jades, so why nerf critical heals? Since when do you see a person with 70+ resist and incoming that's over 50 and outgoing over 120 critical a heal? Why was critical heals nerfed so hard? Why are we being punished for casuals not being able to compete? No other game does that. Not World of Warcraft. not Blade and Soul, not Black Desert Online, so why are we doing that? I get that it's a kids game, but it ruins it for the people who actually like the way the old game was. Now I face jades more than I do any other type of strategy. We need to face the fact that the only way jades are going to be nerfed is to make any gear that's used for the purpose of jading should not be allowed to be PvP enabled. In the wise words of KI live w/ BlakePvP "we want to nerf stalling strategies so we don't have people in a match for hours or even days on end" - Mattnetic, Ratbeard @ June 19th 2020 35:00min-40:00min on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNzpkCdxs2Q
Shrike has been a questionable spell since the game dropped. If I remember correctly, it was dropped even before pierce jewels were a thing. When avalon came out, I remember my ice having immunity to fire and storm, and I'd go into PvP and win matches easily(because at the time, lore didn't exist, and every school but life, death,and ice were bad). I honestly feel like shrike is a good spell, even though it's hard to counter. I just want shrike returned to it's original state where if you kill by poison or on the last round, backlash won't kill you. I do like the current state where it still does like 1k or more if your at full health, but not how it still kills you if you have less health than the backlash damage(it should be based on current health percentage).
So all in all, this post was made just for the recent nerfs to allot of strategies because of jades. We can talk about stuff all day, but at the end of the day, they don't care or don't understand our requests. If you like my opinion on this, or have any suggestions that might help this, please comment it so Kingsisle is aware of this. So I have a code that they can use to base off of(which as of right now has 10 likes since posting this morning on twitter @wizard101). I'm no expert in coding, I've only done classes in high school and some in college for a degree I need, but it's as close to what I think could be a baseline. My coding professors were bad, so I don't know a ton of coding, and I'm sure this isn't even correct, but it's a start to a code that they should have made before they came out with shrike.

Class IfJadeGear {
public static void main(String[] args) {
//Declaring variables
var regularGear = PvP;
var jadeGear = PvE;
if (regularGear){
equipGear--;
} else if (jadeGear) {
removeGear--;
System.out.println("That item is not allowed in PvP!");
}
}

Survivor
Nov 18, 2009
44
I mean I'm somebody who has been advocating strongly for critical heal nerfs- it was a big issue in 1v1. But jading was also a big issue and has been for years. When one broken strategy is nerfed, everyone will just switch to the next closest broken strategy. My hope is that both critical healing and jading will be dealt with.

1.3x for crit heals is too low, but they need to be balanced and be less than 2.2x. So I agree with your 1.5-1.8x range for sure, but 2.2x was too much. Jading was made even worse because of the shrike change. I think the shrike change should not have come to pass until after jades were dealt with (meaning, maybe after changing resist to a rating system, if that is actually happening). To my understanding, KI is working on making it impossible to achieve immunity to schools, so we're gonna hope that comes sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, we are going to keep having to deal with jades and being frustrated. I want to emphasize though that balancing crit healing is not the issue. But apparently that is a much easier fix to achieve than the Jade fix, so they did it first.

Side note about shrike: I think KI believed it to be too overpowered, and that's why it was changed to deal backlash on your max health. The thing is, shrike is pretty easy to counter (dispels, mantles, stun, a set shield on top of your already high resist). But also you kind of HAVE to counter it, or you're going to lose. And that is why I also do agree it is an overpowered spell. But it is not overpowered if your opponent has immunity or near-immunity and the ability to heal well.

If we can just get a resist cap or something like it, I feel like that will solve so many problems. Thoughts?

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
XxZexionxX on Aug 14, 2020 wrote:
I mean I'm somebody who has been advocating strongly for critical heal nerfs- it was a big issue in 1v1. But jading was also a big issue and has been for years. When one broken strategy is nerfed, everyone will just switch to the next closest broken strategy. My hope is that both critical healing and jading will be dealt with.

1.3x for crit heals is too low, but they need to be balanced and be less than 2.2x. So I agree with your 1.5-1.8x range for sure, but 2.2x was too much. Jading was made even worse because of the shrike change. I think the shrike change should not have come to pass until after jades were dealt with (meaning, maybe after changing resist to a rating system, if that is actually happening). To my understanding, KI is working on making it impossible to achieve immunity to schools, so we're gonna hope that comes sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, we are going to keep having to deal with jades and being frustrated. I want to emphasize though that balancing crit healing is not the issue. But apparently that is a much easier fix to achieve than the Jade fix, so they did it first.

Side note about shrike: I think KI believed it to be too overpowered, and that's why it was changed to deal backlash on your max health. The thing is, shrike is pretty easy to counter (dispels, mantles, stun, a set shield on top of your already high resist). But also you kind of HAVE to counter it, or you're going to lose. And that is why I also do agree it is an overpowered spell. But it is not overpowered if your opponent has immunity or near-immunity and the ability to heal well.

If we can just get a resist cap or something like it, I feel like that will solve so many problems. Thoughts?
Fundamentally, I can understand the frustration it itself having to deal with both jades and critical healers myself.
There is 2 key points one needs to understand about pvp.
1. Its not going always be sweet expect bitter match ups. What i mean by this is offensive pvp is not the only way pvp should be looked at. Stall pvp in its self with proper adjustment defensive wise should also be rewarded for doing so. When a high offense meets a high defensive alternative methods needs solid amplifications By no means whats so ever am i saying its ok to be immune or shrug off damage with critical heals, but one must look at the cost to attain such stats. Which in most cases damage is giving off in exchange for sustain and viability.

2. The second point is both parties have equal opertunies to obtain gears through pack, dungeons, bundles etc.
While jades fights are long they are not impossible to deal with, minions are also very helpful in this secario.
If by any means critical gets nerf, the life school will need solid damage compensation to keep up with the meta. Since its on an off meta build component atm.

So think carefully about what your asking for as this may also have a severe impact on those who have worked hard on sacrificing other stats majorly offensive for defense. What they do on their turn should only be a reflection of a reaction on yours. Play smart.