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Collection of our Best Ideas to Improve PvP

AuthorMessage
Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153


We should gather all of our best suggestions to improve PvP in one place and keep it bumped to the first page. That way maybe Kings Isle will notice it?

The first post won't contain ALL the best ideas, but will be edited as your brilliant responses get added to the first list. If I don't update this on a weekly basis, someone else that follows the same spirit should continue it.

Collection of Best Ideas for Improving PvP

- Scoring system takes into account levels, not just rank, to decide score.

Currently in effect.

- Either sub-privates (rating under 500) do not exist, their rating can't go under 500, or these sub-privates are restricted to 1v1 until their rating returns to 500. This attempts to block the exploit of downranking a wizard to deep sub-private zone to help a person with little pvp skill get a high rank.
- Commander gear may be retained but not used if rating drops under Knight. Veteran gear may be retained but not used if rating drops under 500.
- New lower level gear with critical block for pvp only is introduced into the game. This could be a second set of commander gear.
- Second turn players start with tower shield (because first turn currently has shielding advantage as it is).
- Smoke screen creates smoke screen blocks, just like stuns create stun block shields.
- Not more than two wizards of the same school are allowed in a team.
- A maximum of four identical cards are allowed on any side deck.
- An option to tie the game becomes available to both players every turn, along with "Pass" and "Flee." The button stays pressed until the opposite player agrees to it. Alternatively, no ranked match is allowed to last more than 45 minutes. A match ending in a timeout pays a small amount of points to each player, like 7 points.
- Conviction is free for everyone. It doesn't cost a training point (sorry Couch Potatoes you dont fit in the treasure deck of most midlevels).
- Pending how it goes with the new scoring system, warlord title may need to be moved up to 1000 rating.

Please let me know about your ideas.


Squire
Aug 04, 2009
555
They should take in account when matching how many matches has the player had, this way it can help out with people that downrank and then play. Because even if you rank is a private if you have played over 500 matches your basically a warlord lol. And people that are just starting ranked pvp playing people that down ranked just isn't fair for them.

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
thorvon65 wrote:
They should take in account when matching how many matches has the player had, this way it can help out with people that downrank and then play. Because even if you rank is a private if you have played over 500 matches your basically a warlord lol. And people that are just starting ranked pvp playing people that down ranked just isn't fair for them.


Thanks for bringing an idea to the thread! I can clearly notice that you put in an effort to give constructive feedback.

This idea would help if the prior two ideas to avoid the downranking problem are found to be unsuitable. By the prior two I mean that: (1) someone under 500 only 1v1s or (2) Someone that downranks under Knight, can't use their Commander resist anymore.

What you could still encounter are Knights in Commander gear, but these people will eventually get matched with another knight or a commander and they won't like to fight without their resist because they lose a lot of points. They will only get a lot of points from fighting higher levels if the scoring system is fixed, otherwise they still get few points so idea (1) and (2) in combination pretty much destroy the entire downranking business.
And your idea is an option if they someone can't code (1) or (2) as easily.


Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
What other ideas would you like to include here guys?

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
I like the idea someone suggested where you can chat with your opponent without them, or spectators being able to see your stats.

I have to say something about one of your points though. Confining a wizard to 1 vs 1 for dropping below five hundred is really unfair to them, in this situation they could not ask a friend to help them level up again. I understand 100% your reasons behind it but we can't punish inexpierienced wizards for the bad antics of a small minority of players exploiting the system. That's my take on it anyway. I know this isn't a debate thread I just would not classify this as something to better pvp.

My alternative suggestion is making rank not drop below 500? What do you think?

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
555
I pvp a lot with death wizards and I think the fact that they can critical themselves with sacrifice is a little messed up, especially with the fact that empower no longer does that, just isn't fair to them in PvP.

Conviction itself should be a completely free spell. You shouldn't need any PvP rank, Level, or training point. Especially because in lower level PvP it is essential in fighting with an opponent level 50-60.

My last idea is a little on the extreme side. I think like how when you stack your deck with cards your only allowed a limited amount of an individual card, the same should go with your side deck. That way people who garden and farm stinkweed can't simply put 20 smokescreens in their sideboard. You should be limited to only 10 copies of a single card in your side board.. That way you can give people an actual chance if your someone who generally uses a ton of treasure cards


Explorer
Oct 16, 2009
73
i may got a few.................um...

everyone starts out with a -70 tower shield

everyone has battles in their rank (apprentice vs apprentice, adept vs adept, etc.) or everyone has them in their pvp rank, privates against privates, etc.

yeah.............. that's all i got

-------------------------------------------------
whatever it is, it wasn't me--probably

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
travisAk wrote:
I like the idea someone suggested where you can chat with your opponent without them, or spectators being able to see your stats.

I have to say something about one of your points though. Confining a wizard to 1 vs 1 for dropping below five hundred is really unfair to them, in this situation they could not ask a friend to help them level up again. I understand 100% your reasons behind it but we can't punish inexpierienced wizards for the bad antics of a small minority of players exploiting the system. That's my take on it anyway. I know this isn't a debate thread I just would not classify this as something to better pvp.

My alternative suggestion is making rank not drop below 500? What do you think?


Why does any private need anything other than 1v1 to help them level up to 500?

Only person he can ask for help without biting off a little more than he can chew is another private and why would he/she know any better?

If he asks for help from a ranked person, then he is increasing the difficulty of his match and dropping below 500 means he can't handle it.

Capping it at 500 is a good alternative. The first draft of the idea was this and then modified it to what it is above.

I think being able to chat without an opponent seeing your stats is a valid idea. Not the most OMG WE REALLY NEED THIS NOW idea but a valid idea to put on the list on a lower priority.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2730
thorvon65 wrote:
I pvp a lot with death wizards and I think the fact that they can critical themselves with sacrifice is a little messed up, especially with the fact that empower no longer does that, just isn't fair to them in PvP. Especially with midlevel PvP because that is usually their best heal as they won't get a good give back health spell (wraith) until level 42.


True question here. How does a mid-level death wizard critical on sacrifice? Doesn't critical gear only start dropping in the 50's?

Squire
Mar 07, 2011
520
travisAk wrote:
I like the idea someone suggested where you can chat with your opponent without them, or spectators being able to see your stats.


I'm the one who posted this, and I'm glad someone else thinks it is a good idea. I feel bad when a player says hello, then says hello?, then says something about me not being nice since I can't say hello. But KI wants the arena to be all business so you can't say a word without weakening your position.

Regarding ranking down: I could spend a few paragraphs on how I feel about people who rank down, but here is my solution. As it stands now, if you flee a PvP match, you have to wait five minutes before you can play again. But the Downers (I'll call them Downers because that is exactly what they are) get around this by having no cards in their deck and no wand in hand, so they lose by running out of cards. I think that if a person flees on the first round for any reason, you have to wait an hour to play again.

Of course, The Downers would get around this by loading one card in their deck, but at least they would have to wait a little longer. The solution to this might be that you must have at least a 10 card deck to play PvP ranked.

I like all the ideas posted so far in this thread. It makes me realize PvP could be a lot better than it currently is.


Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2730
laurawatersong wrote:

I think being able to chat without an opponent seeing your stats is a valid idea. Not the most OMG WE REALLY NEED THIS NOW idea but a valid idea to put on the list on a lower priority.


Laura,

I assume the list above is in order of priority?

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
555
kingurz wrote:
thorvon65 wrote:
I pvp a lot with death wizards and I think the fact that they can critical themselves with sacrifice is a little messed up, especially with the fact that empower no longer does that, just isn't fair to them in PvP. Especially with midlevel PvP because that is usually their best heal as they won't get a good give back health spell (wraith) until level 42.


True question here. How does a mid-level death wizard critical on sacrifice? Doesn't critical gear only start dropping in the 50's?


Yea i know i posted that right after i woke up.. I edited it like right after. My bad..

Defender
Aug 07, 2010
107
Ok well Laura you replied on my post and I will reply on yours. But since I do pvp allot I do have a few things I disagree with then I will tell you my ideas.

1) A tower shield wouldn't work someone could use a wand and crush them the next turn and what you do to one you must do to the other or it truly isn't a fair fight (not that it is to begin with the person who goes first usually wins the fight like what 65%-75%) but a tower shield to one side does not solve that problem.

2) I do not agree with holding below 500 people to only 1v1 under 500 people that is not the goal. I agree it helps them some but does it really? I mean if your only pvp with people that arent that good in the first place how do you realistically expect them to get better? If you face a person below only beat below 500 and move them up above it and they do the same things they did to just get by I do not fully see how that benefits them in a fight with the people who know what they are doing in the pvp. They wont learn real concepts of how warlords and commanders fight.

3) I just do not agree with limiting sides to only to players of the same school. I guess I see where your coming from if you have in a 4v4 vs all storm and storm goes first and all of them use storm lord but I mean. That is a strategy and if it works it works. Its like when your in a 2v2 match with a legend and your only lvl twenty. and the lvl twenty only destroys the shields protecting the other side the lvl sixty needs off of them to kill them and if it works they will do it and if it doesn't then they wont do it again. Its what ever floats your boat new strategies are welcome that is a part of fighting. That is my take on that.

So I do not agree with those points. But here are some ideas I have for the pvp.

I like what you said about gear I could live with that and I like what you all said about people playing in 500 match and your a private but basically a warlord. That needs to get fixed I mean earn it like true fighter are. convictions needs to be free for all to use its not fair getting paired up with people and loosing to them cause you cant either posses or defend against something your not capable of even having.

thorvon65

I see where you are coming at you do not like people critical themselves but I mean that in my opinion is fair. I mean critical gear is not real fighting but its only playing the odd and its all about luck. So I mean if your will to play with luck for your side you can play with it against your side. That is my opinion. Its like playing with fire you can get burnt lol.

Ok ok ok as for ideas I have about pvp I would like ...

1) smoke screen block seems fair and if you have a stun block for ice you can have a smoke screen block for fire.

2) The scoring system has got to change look at my post at what happened on my life account its just not fair. I mean if your lvl forty playing against lvl sixty people obviously your supposed to loose but if the lvl sixty person is below 500 and uses critical??? I mean you have no chance of winning and if you do that should be rewarded on. (Plz look up my post if you wanna see what I mean) and if you lose it shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg in your rating.

3) I would suggest a lvl cap. By that I mean play only people in your lvl range give or take like 5 lvls . If your lvl twenty would you rather face a lvl sixty or a lvl twenty five person? The answer is obvious there. That is really the most fair. I don't mind losing to people that I at least on paper I could beat unlike if I were facing a legend at a low lvl which I should have no chance in beating.

4) This is something that needs to change stats need to be hidden as well ( like your school) If your in a 4v4 who is the most targeted person? Thats simple the life And if I say one word next round every person there well attack me lol. (yes I know if I use shields or blades of life that is obvious usually but it helps keep it more even ) Plus as an added bonus it gets more people talking in pvp battles cause most wont talk cause of their stats and what not. And don't want the other person to know the school they really are. So that is an idea I think that its amazing who came up with it.

I am bound to think of more and create more but I am tired right now and I think this is long enough of a message for now to get my points across. I would like to know what you all think.

Blake NightWraith

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
In response to Blake Nightwraith:

After reading your response, I still believe in #1 (tower shields for second turn) and #3 (max two schools per team pvp) of the ones that you disagreed with and maybe modify #2 (people with rating under 500 only do 1v1).

One way to modify #2 is quite simply: nobody's rank drops under 500. Otherwise you just KNOW the exploits won't end.

I still believe in #1 because if the opposing team takes a turn to wand off your tower, they still wasted a turn while you could have towered again - both moves at zero pips. So this could actually switch who gets the advantage.

As for #3, max two schools per team pvp, it just seems to me like it would make the game a lot more fun. If teams are going in there, all from the same school, casting the same spell, temp. It's not a chess game anymore, it's more like a place to go bc the school bully hit you and you want to take it out on someone else with the same behavior.

Explorer
Oct 16, 2009
73
i like all of these, but the smoke screen shields should be PvP only. because if it wasnt, smoke mantle, black mantle, and smoke screen would be useless in PvE...

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
Guys! The first suggestion on this list is ALREADY LIVE ON THE GAME!

I'm so beside myself with happiness. Kings Isle DOES care about us!!! :D

Next priority should be erradicating downranking strategies. That's the second most important thing.

THANKS KINGS ISLE!

Delver
Oct 05, 2010
248
I have my own ideas reply if they need any improvements or if you think is a solid idea :
-For the first two rounds neither players on either team can attack.
-You must have the same rank to battle another player.
-Treasure cards are limited in PvP.
-You get to play some form of paper,scissors, rock game at the beginning to decide who goes first (picks a random player on each team to play against the other).
-No chain smokescreens or anything that lowers accuracy (after two rounds of using smokescreens you have to stop using it for a round).
-Taunt is replaced with a balance blade when using Ice Angel.
-The match cannot exceed more than 45 minutes or the game is automatically over but none of the teams lose or gain points.

~~Legendary Death : Brandon Legendmask

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
TheDarkestMask wrote:
I have my own ideas reply if they need any improvements or if you think is a solid idea :
-For the first two rounds neither players on either team can attack.
-You must have the same rank to battle another player.
-Treasure cards are limited in PvP.
-You get to play some form of paper,scissors, rock game at the beginning to decide who goes first (picks a random player on each team to play against the other).
-No chain smokescreens or anything that lowers accuracy (after two rounds of using smokescreens you have to stop using it for a round).
-Taunt is replaced with a balance blade when using Ice Angel.
-The match cannot exceed more than 45 minutes or the game is automatically over but none of the teams lose or gain points.

~~Legendary Death : Brandon Legendmask


Thanks for bringing your ideas into this thread. I like your idea about a match not being allowed to exceed 45 minutes in ranked but in practice they should continue to be as lengthy as they can be so that the tournament community can continue to hold their TMs for as long as they want.

Alternatively I have often thought that there might need to be some type of "Tie" button along with the "Pass" and "Flee" buttons where after you press it it stays pressed until and if the other person presses it too. If team setting, everyone would have to press it for a tie to go into effect. No points are gained or lost. It'd just be this thing where if you want to get out of there because it's taking forever or because you got matched with a good close friend on ranked, you can get out of it.

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
just making a note to self here on something to add to the top later.

warlord may need to be re-calibrated to rank 1000 instead of 900.

LW

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
chanieman wrote:
i like all of these, but the smoke screen shields should be PvP only. because if it wasnt, smoke mantle, black mantle, and smoke screen would be useless in PvE...
what about the effects on the fire minion who uses this spell? Very bad idea, I have never encountered a chain team using smokescreen meaning the "so called" problem does not warrant nerfing the fire minion that uses pips every other round on this spell. No way.

Delver
Oct 05, 2010
248
laurawatersong wrote:
TheDarkestMask wrote:
I have my own ideas reply if they need any improvements or if you think is a solid idea :
-For the first two rounds neither players on either team can attack.
-You must have the same rank to battle another player.
-Treasure cards are limited in PvP.
-You get to play some form of paper,scissors, rock game at the beginning to decide who goes first (picks a random player on each team to play against the other).
-No chain smokescreens or anything that lowers accuracy (after two rounds of using smokescreens you have to stop using it for a round).
-Taunt is replaced with a balance blade when using Ice Angel.
-The match cannot exceed more than 45 minutes or the game is automatically over but none of the teams lose or gain points.

~~Legendary Death : Brandon Legendmask


Thanks for bringing your ideas into this thread. I like your idea about a match not being allowed to exceed 45 minutes in ranked but in practice they should continue to be as lengthy as they can be so that the tournament community can continue to hold their TMs for as long as they want.

Alternatively I have often thought that there might need to be some type of "Tie" button along with the "Pass" and "Flee" buttons where after you press it it stays pressed until and if the other person presses it too. If team setting, everyone would have to press it for a tie to go into effect. No points are gained or lost. It'd just be this thing where if you want to get out of there because it's taking forever or because you got matched with a good close friend on ranked, you can get out of it.
Thx for the reply I think I have some imprvements and new ideas. Here they are:

-Instead of 2 turns of no attacking it'll just be he first one.
-At max 4 of the same treasure cards can be on the sideboard for pvp.
-Instead of rank being the same for every battle it could only be off by at most 2 ranks. (applies only to 1v1 ranked)
-A match cannot exceed 45 minutes or both players are forced to flee but do not lose or gain points. (applies only to ranked matches)
-Beguile cannot last more than 1 round (ik the card says only 1 round but in some occasions it lasts two rounds which i think is pretty unfair).
-Earthquake does not affect infections or weaknesses. (my favorite idea :I)
-Instead of Snow Angel using taunt it could apply a tower shield to caster. (this to me would seem to help alot of ice wizards).
-Dispels cannot be cast after two rounds of usage. (after two rounds of chaining a dispel you can't use it for 1 round, P.S this happened to me in a team match before couldn't attack at all or do much at all because my opponent was death so he could spam death dispels).
-If you are battling a lower rank opponent the lower rank automatically goes first (only if he's two ranks below you gives them a small advantage because hey they are less experienced, only applies to 1v1 ranked).
-If your opponent flees during battle you cannot gain or lose points but your opponent loses a fixed amount of 15 points. (cheap points ruin the challenge of pvp).
-Bubbles (doom and gloom,sanctuary,balefrost,ect.) only lasts 4 rounds and can be replaced. (just a random one i decided to add in here xD)
-Triage costs 3 pips. (a 0 pip triage can ruin a whole battle for almost any school).

Legendary Death: Brandon LegendMask

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
TheDarkestMask wrote:

Thx for the reply I think I have some imprvements and new ideas. Here they are:

-Instead of 2 turns of no attacking it'll just be he first one.
-At max 4 of the same treasure cards can be on the sideboard for pvp.
-Instead of rank being the same for every battle it could only be off by at most 2 ranks. (applies only to 1v1 ranked)
-A match cannot exceed 45 minutes or both players are forced to flee but do not lose or gain points. (applies only to ranked matches)
-Beguile cannot last more than 1 round (ik the card says only 1 round but in some occasions it lasts two rounds which i think is pretty unfair).
-Earthquake does not affect infections or weaknesses. (my favorite idea :I)
-Instead of Snow Angel using taunt it could apply a tower shield to caster. (this to me would seem to help alot of ice wizards).
-Dispels cannot be cast after two rounds of usage. (after two rounds of chaining a dispel you can't use it for 1 round, P.S this happened to me in a team match before couldn't attack at all or do much at all because my opponent was death so he could spam death dispels).
-If you are battling a lower rank opponent the lower rank automatically goes first (only if he's two ranks below you gives them a small advantage because hey they are less experienced, only applies to 1v1 ranked).
-If your opponent flees during battle you cannot gain or lose points but your opponent loses a fixed amount of 15 points. (cheap points ruin the challenge of pvp).
-Bubbles (doom and gloom, sanctuary,balefrost,ect.) only lasts 4 rounds and can be replaced. (just a random one i decided to add in here xD)
-Triage costs 3 pips. (a 0 pip triage can ruin a whole battle for almost any school).

Legendary Death: Brandon LegendMask


Again thanks for bringing your ideas. I think they are thoughtful. I will admit that some of these ideas require that a Legend review them and unfortunately I am not yet well versed in legend PvP.

Perhaps a few other legends can come in and weigh in on this triage issue. As far as I have read of it, it only affects ONE of the three or four effects of a damage over time. It doesn't clear the damage over time fully, but I'm not sure if this information is accurate or dated. I would assume that if you have life dispelled the LIFE wizard then he will NOT be able to triage himself out of your damage over time no? We're looking for feedback not just from non-life wizards but from life wizards as well.

I kind of like the idea of having an expiration timer on the bubble. If you look at adept tournaments, fire does REALLY well because it learns its bubble early while other schools learn it later. I will likely add this idea to the top but want to hear more comments?

We can't dock the person that flees a flat fee of 15 - it facilitates downranking too much.

I can see where you're going with the lower rank always goes first but here is were you being legend and me being midlevel wont see eye to eye. Sometimes I got about 25 level difference with the people I fight, people who critically strike. Sure they might be private and I warlord but is it really fair to go second always against someone who critically strikes? I'll give you this one if crit block gear is made for midlevels. Only then and only because scoring has been fixed and it dont really matter so badly to lose against a private legend now in 1v1.

Ok - the issue with dispels - we dont see this issue as much at midlevel because our pip generation is not through the roof. Two pips is actually quite a bit to spend. Not so much to a legend. If somehow the cost of the dispel scaled with pip generation... somehow. Food for thought.

Another idea of yours I thought was interesting was the beguile idea but I am not in familiar territory with it. I haven't been beguiled in ages. I guess storms are easy to read. My life partner occassionally got beguiled. Beguile seems to me like it should have a constricting effect on the caster. If their team is strengthened by one, they should pay for that with weaknesses for a couple of people or something if you follow me. Especially if the beguile is going to last two turns instead of one. Or the pip cost of it should severely handicap whoever cast it from attacking for a couple rounds.

quick feedback on some of your other suggestions by number of order you wrote them:
(1) wont most problems that make you ask for a turn or two of not attacking be resolved if only max 2 of same school are on the 4v4?
(2) great
(3) we can't suggest any idea that in any way increases wait time for matches
(4) good. i modified it a little and added it to the top.
(5) beguile discussed above
(6) i think earthquake is ok as is but may other people want to weigh in
(7) dispels discussed above
(8) i know snow angel exists with taunt bc you ices have the most health and should have tank minion duty. now i dont know enough about legend pvp to weigh in on this idea.
(9) ok the rest of all these were discussed above.

Nice work,
LW

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
555


Again thanks for bringing your ideas. I think they are thoughtful. I will admit that some of these ideas require that a Legend review them and unfortunately I am not yet well versed in legend PvP.

LW

Laura I very much respect that you are now incorporating a legend view point on ideas. That had been a major reason you disliked my posts. So i'll give my stand point on triage.

If you ask around legend PvP healers had the most problems healing through these new buffed up DoT spells. Ice's Snow angel could critical and do massive damage, plus most Ices tend to use treasure or enchanced blades and stack them. Death has the most poweful spell damage wise as a DoT skeletal dragon. And when fire criticals a bladed dragon it can be very disastrous for a healer.

Now the response to this weakness was triage, it could allow the healer to cleanse the DoT. So that the healing could be much more effective. So it was made to lessen the strain of healing through DoTs on the healer. However of course there were plenty of people ready to use life's new talent to their own use. So now people can easily treasure a triage and can basically use it to overpower any school that relies heavily on DoTs, for me I'm ice my best spell is a DoT, I love seeing a life triage it off, It really shows people are using their own skills and strategy to out wit me. But can you imagine the frustration of Ice, Fire, and Death, seeing someone who isn't life using that spell to get rid of their best attack lol, it just isn't right especially that deaths main attack now is skeletal dragon in 1v1.

While Darkmask's idea on triage is very well designed 3 pips would be very effective at controlling it.

I still would want to see it a life only spell. In which i'm saying the treasure versions taken out of the game. ( I think would be a good compromise to keep a triage amulet in so that they only can have one. But treasures are just kind of unfair, especially if this is a spell meant for life.)

Or I believe someone else had a good idea to make treasured triages unable to use in PvP. I can't remember the name but if your out there you can shame me if you want lol.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
People wanting to change earthquake so it does
Not remove weakness or infection.. Um HELLO GUYS, KI designed that spell so that it removes Everything, not just what you want it to remove

This so called list for pvp improvements has turned into the "what would benefit me most list in a fight list"

So far:

Make snow angel better
Triage should be three pips because I am not life (lol)
Is there any spell that does not get mutated here, c'mon guys leave pacify the way it is....pls
Change bubble into a sun spell? Four rounds.. Really?

Sry some of this stuff is just out of control


Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
I guess that I also wanted to add, TravisAK, that you can also summon up that love for the inexperienced noob attempting to PvP that you have ALSO mentioned on these boards.... if you team your warlord with a private who you have trained to do well.... you'll keep your choo choo train going.