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Balance in Pvp

1
AuthorMessage
Defender
Mar 08, 2009
144
They are too good. All they ever do is shield everything then use lots of traps and blades and then Judgment which most of the time kills you in one hit and during all this time you cant to anything because they have like 3 shields for each class. And they usually have Feint so it does even more damage.

Explorer
Nov 26, 2008
60
Its fair, balance's shields only protect 50%, and to dull judgement you will need to have ice's tower shield, and the only way they can get rid of that is to minor so they are forced to use curse and a feint

Survivor
Mar 25, 2009
15
I'm a balance wizard, and I lost to a fire grandmaster. My firepower couldn't match his because I don't have a level 48 spell. Still, I used ny reguler stategy, but he kept putting up tower shields, and Tresure card tower shields. Reducing my hits to nothing. So I have feint, and other stuff, but for a powerfull judgement, we have to wait until usu Yeally a full ring of power pips. Yeah I shield, it's what I'm best at. Become a balance wizard and learn that fighting against elemental people are hard, becasuse 2 of the attacks we learn are attacks are elemental damage. Wich leaves us with very few spells to work with.

Survivor
Apr 18, 2009
7
I find it interesting that there's twice as many balance wizards in the top 5, top 10, and top 20 than the next leading class in the PvP leaderboards.

The ability to shield out every other school, wand away the only shield that really blocks them with an off-class wand (tower shield), and finish the fight with a balance is a hard combo to counter...

Explorer
Feb 21, 2009
66
I have to disagree. All it takes to ruin a Judgment is a Tower Shield. Balance characters can't break the Tower Shield without breaking their Hex, Feint, and BalanceBlade first. If anything was changed about the Balance school in pvp, it should be that they learn a Steal Ward or Pierce or something like that.

Duncan EarthTamer
Draconian Slayer

Survivor
Feb 08, 2009
1
I'm a balance wizard. Most of the time, are spells are blades, traps, or shields, but not attacks. Sure it takes a long time to kill a balance wizard, but we don't always have attacks. And if you're going to attack next round and you still haven't used hex but you've used the rest of the spells that can boost a balance attack and the person you are about to attack uses tower shield, judgment is completely ruined.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Another thread about Balance being OP (overpowered). Yawn.

Use Weakness and Tower Shield. Then, if you must, stack them with Treasure Weakness and Treasure Tower Shield. You should be doing this against everyone anyway. Why? Cause it works.

It's all about the timing...which equates to strategy...which equates to SKILL. At least when you fight a Balance Wizard you know exactly what's coming...usually. :-)

Personally, as a Grandmaster Balance Sorcerer, I've given up on the whole Turtle/Judgment strategy. Why? Cause it's too easy to DEFEAT.

The main drawback with using Judgment is that it takes ALL your pips. Next round you start from scratch. Being that a big Judgment is far too easy to disrupt, this leaves a Balance Wizard very vulnerable. How many Helephants can be thrown back to back, or Tritons, or whatever? When you look at it this way, then Balance Wizards are the LEAST of your concerns.

Especially when you consider that most our buffs and shields are LESSER versions of what everyone else has. Add to that our totally useless "World Spell" Power Play, totally underpowered 6 pip spell Hydra, and our unpredictable 4 pip Spectral Blast, you can see that a Balance Wizard is almost pigeonholed into using Judgment.




Survivor
Apr 25, 2009
2
Hi everyone, I am a balance Wizard and although I do agree with you guys but dang, dont tell our secrects about our weaknesses . Its all in the cards on how its brought into the lineup and how you put it together and stuff. But dispite some of the down sides of the Balance Wizards, I still think the Balance Wizards are still AWESOME!! :D :D

Survivor
Apr 18, 2009
7

It's easy to make any school seem underpowered if you only want to rattle off their weaker points, when in truth some of those points are minor or simply never come into play in a real PvP battle... I guess the next thing you'll say is that balance has double the spots than other schools in the top 5, 10, and 20 on the PvP boards is because Balance players are just better, right?

Judgement is fine. The defensive nature of balance is fine, and is a large reason why it is winning so much. The problem card is reshuffle. It allows hyper-consistent decks out of balance and allows them to use any single card 5+ times in a single match (Which is *gasp* why you can say to stack weakness x2 and tower shield x2 + treasure cards... it's easy for balance to do). I feel that reshuffle should be a universal card, and either every school should be able to spend power pips to use it, or no school... my vote would be for no school. Giving one school the ability to cast this off of 2 power pips means that it's a matter of when, not if this card powers something broken down the line. Hyper-consistent can turn into hyper-degenerate pretty quickly.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Scrubmonkey,

You bring up an interesting point with the Reshuffle. Any school can get it BTW, it costs one training point and is available in Collosus Blvd. Yes, it's free to Balance Wizards, I have no idea why. I agree it should be available to everyone.

I don't understand the first part of your post however. Noone is highlighting unused weaknesses of the Balance School. I can assure you that our Blades and Traps are significantly weaker than any other schools and they are used quite often in PvP.

We complain about our other two spells being weaker because they are. Hydra is a horrible spell. 6 pip shield ripper. That's it, nothing more. Spectral Blast has such an unpredictable nature that it is too much of a gamble to base a strat of it. If a Balance Wizard goes elemental then there are up to four shields that can totally wreck them. Storm, Ice, Fire, and Tower.

Judgment is the ONLY viable strategy. Not because it has no shields...it does. Tower Shield. It's the only Strat because it's the only "good" spell a Balance Wizard has. Change Spectral Blast to a random school 500 pt dot and add 100 pts per head on the Hydra and perhaps there may be some variety to Balance Wizards.

Back to Reshuffle...it's overated and I only keep it in my treasure cards (which anyone can buy.) It's quite easy to throw a Weakness and a Tower Shield...and then use a Treasure card Tower Shield to stack it. You don't need reshuffle for this. You just need a greater grasp of the big picture...which brings me to my next point.

People...use your Training points for spells...not a Secondary School. Tower Shield, Feint, Fire Elf, more 75% dual shields, etc... Learn about timing and the "flow" of a dual. Research the capabilities of other schools and develop strats to incorporate into your deck. You aren't losing because of Judgment. The truth could be that you're just a bad dueler.

Yes this is a book, but I'm tired to death of this subject and I'm speaking my peace here. Actually Scrubmonkey, maybe Balance player ARE just "better". Afterall, we certainly chose the most lackluster school judging from its representation in Ravenwood. Maybe we saw its potential to fill the gaps that other "Pure" schools have. Maybe this intuitively led us to explore the bigger picture and seek out the spells we need from other schools to augment us instead of falling into a "Secondary School" trap.
Maybe leveling a wizard with subpar buffs and debuffs taught us the importance of timing and anticipation.

Who knows...but to base anything off of the so called "Top 100" list is nonsense. Until KI separates the individual rank and team rank, that list will be padded with chainstunning exploiters. Call'em what you want, but that's the truth.

Defender
Mar 08, 2009
144
Well thank you for your responses. I see that many of you are talking about tower shield. SO you are saying that the only "key" to defeating Balance is to be ice? ( or have that crown item)

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
wow...um ok Proman1355, the answer is no. You don't have to be Ice to have a Tower Shield. Put 5 training points into the Ice School and you can get it or they are available as Treasure Cards from the library in Wizard City and Krokatopia. Cost 175 gold a piece I think.

Tower Shield is THE dominant shield in PvP. Regardless of your school or who you are dueling, you absolutely MUST have access to this spell if you hope to have any kind of chance in the Arena.

Defender
Mar 08, 2009
144
K guys thanks for all the responses now i know how to beat balance( i never noticed you could get tower shield at library).

Survivor
May 11, 2009
7
I agree Drid.

When I'm in the Arena, I always have to get one or two Tower Spells cast for my Team-mates because if I don't they will be Defeated and Flee with me unable to Heal them..

Survivor
Apr 18, 2009
7
Dridsuzy wrote:
The truth could be that you're just a bad dueler.

Puh-leze! All comments like this do is make me less inclined to take you seriously.

Dridsuzy wrote:
Who knows...but to base anything off of the so called "Top 100" list is nonsense. Until KI separates the individual rank and team rank, that list will be padded with chainstunning exploiters. Call'em what you want, but that's the truth.


Bogus. Even conceding that the lists are off due to chain stunning teams, there's TWICE as many balance players in the top 10 then there are "stun schools" COMBINED. If the "stun schools" are broken, what does that say bout balance?

Also, the balance representation is pretty strong in the rest of the list as well, so you can't completely discount the top 100 list.

Dridsuzy wrote:
I don't understand the first part of your post however. Noone is highlighting unused weaknesses of the Balance School. I can assure you that our Blades and Traps are significantly weaker than any other schools and they are used quite often in PvP.


You're only telling half the story, and you know it. Balance gets better use out of feint than any other school, and that MORE than makes up for the weaker Traps and Blades. The combination of no balance shield and spirit/elemental shield being maindeck worthy means that balance can use feint's strengths and cover it's weaknesses far better than any other school can.

Dridsuzy wrote:
We complain about our other two spells being weaker because they are. Hydra is a horrible spell. 6 pip shield ripper. That's it, nothing more. Spectral Blast has such an unpredictable nature that it is too much of a gamble to base a strat of it. If a Balance Wizard goes elemental then there are up to four shields that can totally wreck them. Storm, Ice, Fire, and Tower.


Don't get it twisted. Hydra is a weak PvE spell, but it's pretty powerful for PvP. First of all, the "drawback" of hitting your opponent's high resistences does not matter against half the schools. Secondly, Hydra actually gets BETTER the more arena gear you and your opponent have. Opponent in full arena gear = no school specific resistances. Then, your "drawback" becomes 3 hits that still take blades while breaking a shield and STILL doing most of the spell's damage to your opponent... terrible, I know.

Dridsuzy wrote:
Back to Reshuffle...it's overated and I only keep it in my treasure cards (which anyone can buy.) It's quite easy to throw a Weakness and a Tower Shield...and then use a Treasure card Tower Shield to stack it. You don't need reshuffle for this.


If you think reshuffle is overrated, you aren't doing it right. Reshuffle is the most powerful card in the game behind the stuns (and they are broken) because it completely changes up what is possible in deckbuilding. It lets you build smaller decks and discard aggressively for a tighter game plan. This is pretty strong when spending 6 on the card (which is what the other schools REALLY spend on the treasure card: 3 power pips), but at 2 power pips, it's borderline broken. Even if they made a balance shield, it will STILL be pretty easy to lock most schools out of the match by playing the same 2 spirit/elemental shields + towers and weaknesses 5-7 times (fire school being the big, fat exception)... Then again, I can't be telling you this... I suck and you are all better, right?

The ONLY thing that keeps reshuffle from being an issue right now is that it doesn't play well with judgement.

Oh, and building smaller decks and maindecking reshuffle frees up sidebord slots and also makes singleton cards like the ones from items alot more reasonable. Think about jade oni...

I'm leveling my balance wizard now because it has alot of flexibility to go either 1 hit kill or turtle up for attrition fights, while most other schools can only do one or the other. I'm thinking that reshuffle makes it a little TOO good at both though, so it couldn't hurt to raise the non-treasure Reshuffle to 5. That, and making feint a death only spell would make it so that Balance could have more powerful attack spells overall without fear of breaking the game.

Survivor
Apr 26, 2009
22
You're only telling half the story, and you know it. Balance gets better use out of feint than any other school, and that MORE than makes up for the weaker Traps and Blades. The combination of no balance shield and spirit/elemental shield being maindeck worthy means that balance can use feint's strengths and cover it's weaknesses far better than any other school can.

What's so funny about this is I'm balance and I have never had to play the feint shield. I keep one in my deck just in case, but so far I've only discarded it. Most everyone plays it, especially death schools. So before complaining about how unfair it is for balance using feint shield and judgement, might I suggest you not take a risk and play it? Better yet wait for the balance to play it and be prepared to take full advantage of it.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Bogus. Even conceding that the lists are off due to chain stunning teams, there's TWICE as many balance players in the top 10 then there are "stun schools" COMBINED. If the "stun schools" are broken, what does that say bout balance?


You don't have to be a Stun School to be on a Stun Team. Besides, that's not really the point. The list is flawed plain and simple.

You're only telling half the story, and you know it. Balance gets better use out of feint than any other school, and that MORE than makes up for the weaker Traps and Blades. The combination of no balance shield and spirit/elemental shield being maindeck worthy means that balance can use feint's strengths and cover it's weaknesses far better than any other school can.


The Half of the story I'm telling refers to Balance only spells. If you want to talk about Feint, then yes, a Feint/Judgment is a very powerful combo. Take into consideration that it takes 7 training points to get Feint, I think it's a good trade off. I can assure you that Feint works quite well with pretty much every school's Big Spell. I can also assure you that Feint is a signpost for a Tower Shield.

Balance does have a slight advantage defending against the 30% debuff I suppose. Although Tower Shield and a well placed wand shot makes this advantage questionable. The Elemental/Spirit Shields are only 50% while anyone seriously PvPing will have a Storm/Fire Shield and a Death/Myth Shield at 75% The addition of the third shield in the Balance version is usually moot as the Life and Ice Schools aren't really known for their stellar damage. Of course they could always be using Feints :) A Tower Shield can easily plug this hole.

As far as Hydra, I'm not twisting anything. It's a horrible spell where any debuff (say Weakness) effects all three heads while any buff (say Balance Blade or Feint) only effects one. True the Elemental Blades and Traps work for every head, but they cost one pip to cast. Also, regular 75% shields will easily negate two heads. Your argument assumes an opponent has no shields which is hardly ever the case. I honestly don't know how you think that a spell can rip 75% shields and still do most of it's damage. Besides, we're only talking 550 unbuffed total damage anyway.

Your point about Reshuffle may have some merit I agree. But I don't really see the point in spending the pips to reshuffle and casting the same buffs over and over when I'm saving up for a Judgment. The buffs won't stack for the big hit. Perhaps the problem lies more with the Fire School using this tactic to power up their DoTs for every round. In that case it's got nothing to do with Balance.

The ONLY thing that keeps reshuffle from being an issue right now is that it doesn't play well with judgement.
I see you agree. This thread is about Balance in PvP, not broken cards that are helping other schools. Maybe start a new thread about Reshuffle?

I'm not one to claim that Balance isn't a powerful school in PvP. Far from it. It, along with other schools have very workable Strats. Life Attrition, Myth Minion Turtle, Fire Slow Death DoT, Death-Storm Big Hitters and Ice Stun Tank. I really fail to see why Judgment is such an issue when it's the ONLY thing a Balance Wizard has.

Any school can get the proper spells, be they Shields, Blades or Traps, to be a force to reckon with. We all have the same amount of Training Points and the same opportunity to use them wisely. Same goes for inside the Arena. I apologize if I sounded snarky about the "being bad duelers" remark. I only meant to convey the idea that it's not about the School or Spells that win Duels...it's about the Wizard.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
Balance is powerful in pvp because skilled balance wizards tneds to have higher curve than skilled wizards in thoer classes. This is due to the fact that it's very hard to shield against a balance wizard, and if they build up their attacks enough, it sometimes won't matter if you have a shield or no(unless you're ice and remember to put ice armor in your deck). Actually, I'd say the powerful class in 1v1 pvp is currently myth, thanks to Orthrus. Not only can they blow right through defenses, overwhelm you with minions and have 2 kinds of stun, but they can do a large chunk of damage at the same time now with Orthrus.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Survivor
Apr 24, 2009
38
I was feeling very bad about my performance again balance wizards until I came to the message boards. Someone posted a suggestion about constant attacks that force the balance wizard to spend pips healing. I was using fire balls and scald with blades and traps. Sometimes I would wait to get pips to use my dragon. It worked. I was able to win some of the battles. I am now working on using smaller spells.
If I have power pips and with my gear, I have power pips, I can cast a fire elf on the balance wizard four times before he can trap and blade me much less cast his annoying spell. If I add the flip to that I am hitting him and healing myself. All for the same nine pips it takes to seriously damage me and if he tries to get enough pips to take me out, he ought to die.

Keep talking about this please, I have been given some really good ideas and insights from these discussions. Thank you.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Nosleep,

I'm glad your PvP game is improving! You've touched on another core card for the serious PvP'er. Fire Elf. There's not a better, cheaper Tower Shield ripper in the game. At just two pips (4 pips) it's very cost effective and can be had with just a two training point investment in Fire School. It's damage is considerable as well, considering its utility.

You being Fire should consider using your Minion as well. He seems to constantly be casting Fire elf. His harassment of your opponent will enable you to build up to bigger spells faster.

I'm hoping that people are starting to realize it's not about who hits hardest. It's about strategy and timing.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
Indeed, dot spells seem to be greatly overestimated in pvp, especially fire elf. I use 6 copies of poison in my deck, and they make a BIG difference in matches.

That said, I don't like how people bring up secondary schools when they talk about how balance is "overpowered." Feint creating huge damage numbers is the fault of death school, not balance. If judgment really does the amount of damage that people say it does then feint needs to changed, not judgment.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer


Survivor
Aug 28, 2009
36
people really should make a balance wizard before you call them "unfairly overpowered". I have death, fire, and balance grandmasters. On my fire and death, yeah fighting balance guys in tough because thier schools speciallty is adjusting the rules of combat, HELLO thats all pvp is about. But like all schools balance spells have an akilles heel, a few actually. Yeah we can shield against all schools BUT its only 50% unlike the other schools 70%. Yeah we can buff and weaken allot BUT if someone shields and we have to break it any of our blades or traps will be broken in the process because we have no balance school specific buffs. And yeah we have a good variety of spells BUT they don't do them as well as the school that specializes in them...

ex) our one heal spell doesnt do as much as lifes satyr spell, our minion spells arent quite as versatile as myths minion spells, and our attack spells have a average damage and accuracy, our health is well rounded, and our overall function is overall well rounded. hmm what is another word for rounded? oh yeah BALANCED! just because balance is good at its speciallty doesnt mean its not fair. thats like me saying "ew death is to good at stealing health blah" HELLO thats what its meant to do!

if you don't know how to compensate for balance's speciallty in pvp then you just don't know the proper way to deal with them and you need to develop a strategy against them and thier spells instead of whining about it.

Survivor
Jun 20, 2009
9
I'm torn on this subject (at least in 1v1), but I can't escape what I see and experience every time I'm in the arena.

- I face twice as many Balance as any other school, or even schools combined.
- There are more ways to break tower shield than there are ways to defend against Judgement.

As long as they have Judgement in their deck their level matters little. l still struggle to beat one balance of every five. Any other school I'm even money or better.

But because I'm also losing to Myth Orthus consistently, and I'm starting to tire of Wildbolts as well, I'm going to keep working on my game and I'll revisit after a hundred more duels.

My only complaint is this: It should be the wizard that wins, not the card they carry.

~Morgrim SoulForge

Defender
Oct 24, 2009
133
Well as you see. I am a balance wizard as well. Well I was balance on my second character. Yes Judgement. Here is a tip-

1.) Discard spells ya don't need. And be sure to have a reshuffle in your deck!
2.) When you discard, you be sure not to discard the Hex or Balanceblade or a Dragonblade if you have one.
3.) Keep passing until you got 5 pips. Doesn't matter if you have power pips or not. You know you need 2 more pips to cast a 7 pip Judgement. Give yourself a blade and give your opponet the hex.
4.) And also, be sure you have something, like a wand attack to get rid of the tower shields.
5.) Give yourself a Precision. And the round after that you get to cast Judgement. I am sure that dude will die cuz' my Judgement once hit 6703.

Hope this helps!

~Abigail Fairyblossom

Add me if you find me!

Survivor
May 31, 2009
6
Abbigail623 wrote:
Well as you see. I am a balance wizard as well. Well I was balance on my second character. Yes Judgement. Here is a tip-

1.) Discard spells ya don't need. And be sure to have a reshuffle in your deck!
2.) When you discard, you be sure not to discard the Hex or Balanceblade or a Dragonblade if you have one.
3.) Keep passing until you got 5 pips. Doesn't matter if you have power pips or not. You know you need 2 more pips to cast a 7 pip Judgement. Give yourself a blade and give your opponet the hex.
4.) And also, be sure you have something, like a wand attack to get rid of the tower shields.
5.) Give yourself a Precision. And the round after that you get to cast Judgement. I am sure that dude will die cuz' my Judgement once hit 6703.

Hope this helps!

~Abigail Fairyblossom

Add me if you find me!









As a master of balance I totally agree with Abigail.Put weaknesses and towers and PLZ dont complain judgement again it is balances spell meaning it is not to cheating. FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HATES JUDGEMENT TAKE ANOTHER THOUGHT PVPING WITH TOWERS AND WEAKNESSES.

Brian TitanHunter
level 48 (Commander)

Hope to see you in the spiral :D

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