Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Balance in Pvp

2
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 16, 2008
4
*note: make sure this goes to almost every thread with something along these lines.

Look, balance will use whatever spells it's given. So will Death. And Life. And Myth. And Storm. And Fire. And Ice. So, sorry to say, no matter what your oppinion may be, these schools have their specialties. Thus, they need to use them. End of story.

Defender
Jan 03, 2009
140
I have a balance lvl 40 and at first I lost all the time in the arena (now I win more often). But still my balance doesn't always win, it wouldn't be fair to kick them out. I also have a myth, think about minions. Every school has their special strengths, and besides if balance does not have the strongest spells and it's meant for boosting or weakening people inn battle so the least they can have is a good spell. Also judgment is just like tempest or dryad. What you can do is get some tower shield treasure cards of clothing that resists all to help defend yourself.

Defender
Jan 03, 2009
140
scrubmonkey wrote:

It's easy to make any school seem underpowered if you only want to rattle off their weaker points, when in truth some of those points are minor or simply never come into play in a real PvP battle... I guess the next thing you'll say is that balance has double the spots than other schools in the top 5, 10, and 20 on the PvP boards is because Balance players are just better, right?

Judgement is fine. The defensive nature of balance is fine, and is a large reason why it is winning so much. The problem card is reshuffle. It allows hyper-consistent decks out of balance and allows them to use any single card 5+ times in a single match (Which is *gasp* why you can say to stack weakness x2 and tower shield x2 + treasure cards... it's easy for balance to do). I feel that reshuffle should be a universal card, and either every school should be able to spend power pips to use it, or no school... my vote would be for no school. Giving one school the ability to cast this off of 2 power pips means that it's a matter of when, not if this card powers something broken down the line. Hyper-consistent can turn into hyper-degenerate pretty quickly.


But my myth lvl 50 has reshuffle so you can learn it if you are not balance and it only brings back discarded cards.

Survivor
Oct 18, 2009
24
well balance is most schools originated from elemental schools , fire , ice , storm, Balance can shield all schools the spell for completing tutorial at th start and for completing wizard city, i will have to agree balance is very hard to kill they use shelds and blades and you cant do anything absorb or tower shield and maybe weakness but then you will be balance your self... any way those spells are rare not many people have then so we blae and trap example me lvl 49 pyromancer getting ready to attack with blades traps ect.. then you use the spirit shield half the attack its still a shield... so you live then you attack with your blades hex traps ect.. and use jugdment or a varity or other spels. We can't shield them so its basicy kill them before they kill you. Not only they have high defence and power pip and also health, they also shield with weakness, in ds you will find EVERY boss has weakness "o he is storm thats ok" WEAKNESS! So my point is balance should have a shield that every one can have say from fairgrounds a balance shield -80% that will make it allot easyer. In pvp though balance will win, They will attack and they cant do ANYTHING to stop it no shields or anything while they shield and shield and sheil again.... you become weak and they become invinsible, Just think you cant shield it so your dead when any second they can shield you. :?

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
um in addition to shield spells you can use armor (absorb) spells like spirit armor.
balance IS pretty weak. but Dridsuzy has a GOOD POINT. its a very educational path.you should try getting a balance wizard. you could learn a thing or two dozen. kudos, Dridsuzy.

and whats all this about feint? we need 7 training points and 26 levels before we can even THINK about feint.

since balance technically is its own second school with all the elemental/spirit stuff, we hunt down spells that would help us. for example, my 32-training point scheme is:

death--> feint (vampire, skeletalpirate)
ice-->ice wyvern (towershield)
life-->satyr (spiritarmor,seraph)
fire-->meteorstrike (firetrap, sunbird)
myth-->humongofrog (cyclops, mythtrap)
storm=wand flares

school-->what i go to (what i pick up en route)

see? we have to hunt.


Survivor
Feb 21, 2009
25
Dridsuzy wrote:
Nosleep,

I'm glad your PvP game is improving! You've touched on another core card for the serious PvP'er. Fire Elf. There's not a better, cheaper Tower Shield ripper in the game. At just two pips (4 pips) it's very cost effective and can be had with just a two training point investment in Fire School. It's damage is considerable as well, considering its utility.

You being Fire should consider using your Minion as well. He seems to constantly be casting Fire elf. His harassment of your opponent will enable you to build up to bigger spells faster.

I'm hoping that people are starting to realize it's not about who hits hardest. It's about strategy and timing.


You have an excellent point. It IS all about strategy. I am on this post because of a conversation that i just had with a master/grandmaster in the arena while I was on my apprentice wizard.
Here it is: (something like this)
person: great only one balance in 1v1
me:you hate balance? why?
person: judgement
me: it is their spell, they have a right to use it
person: it's too strong and they keep beating me
me: its not their fault they have a better strategy than yours
person: no they are too strong it isnt fair
me: i think you are extremly unfair, and this is coming from a life wizard.
person: (i am not sure what he said later)

yea. Talk about unfair.
-Donna Shadowriver, magus therugist
(and in the case of the conversation:)
-Amy Spirittalon, apprentice sorcerer.
Yes, that was on my balance wizard.

Survivor
Dec 12, 2009
7
balance dont have very many good spells so its kinda fare balance life and some other schools arent the best so yea :?

Survivor
Apr 06, 2010
8
LOL - Are you serious? My Balance character is not strong at all. I recently moved to Grizzleheim just to find out my character cannot solo at all very well.
[Not to go off topic about PvP] I have to continue to purchase henchmen, due to the simple fact my cards are weak at level twenty-two. Sure - I got some fire spells, and even my elemental traps do not help my fire bird that much as a fire shield totally ruins my chances at a good damage attack. Balance is... and forever will be 'Balanced' a good offense and a good defense. Not a brilliant offense with a horrible defense. No, It is balanced. We get elemental traps at a cost of one pip - while you can cast your traps with zero. (Or so I believe).

Balance is not over powered... Lol... I don't know how to explain it any further than it already has...

Dakota Shadowshard
Adept Sorcerer

Delver
Aug 14, 2009
251
Explorer
Dec 19, 2008
63
DANG some of these balance posts about what weakness they have and how to kill them makes me think twice about getting a balance wiz.
jasonfariyblossom lvl 50 pyro

" I hate my name "

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
scrubmonkey wrote:
Dridsuzy wrote:
The truth could be that you're just a bad dueler.

Puh-leze! All comments like this do is make me less inclined to take you seriously.

Dridsuzy wrote:
Who knows...but to base anything off of the so called "Top 100" list is nonsense. Until KI separates the individual rank and team rank, that list will be padded with chainstunning exploiters. Call'em what you want, but that's the truth.


Bogus. Even conceding that the lists are off due to chain stunning teams, there's TWICE as many balance players in the top 10 then there are "stun schools" COMBINED. If the "stun schools" are broken, what does that say bout balance?

Also, the balance representation is pretty strong in the rest of the list as well, so you can't completely discount the top 100 list.

Dridsuzy wrote:
I don't understand the first part of your post however. Noone is highlighting unused weaknesses of the Balance School. I can assure you that our Blades and Traps are significantly weaker than any other schools and they are used quite often in PvP.


You're only telling half the story, and you know it. Balance gets better use out of feint than any other school, and that MORE than makes up for the weaker Traps and Blades. The combination of no balance shield and spirit/elemental shield being maindeck worthy means that balance can use feint's strengths and cover it's weaknesses far better than any other school can.

Dridsuzy wrote:
We complain about our other two spells being weaker because they are. Hydra is a horrible spell. 6 pip shield ripper. That's it, nothing more. Spectral Blast has such an unpredictable nature that it is too much of a gamble to base a strat of it. If a Balance Wizard goes elemental then there are up to four shields that can totally wreck them. Storm, Ice, Fire, and Tower.


Don't get it twisted. Hydra is a weak PvE spell, but it's pretty powerful for PvP. First of all, the "drawback" of hitting your opponent's high resistences does not matter against half the schools. Secondly, Hydra actually gets BETTER the more arena gear you and your opponent have. Opponent in full arena gear = no school specific resistances. Then, your "drawback" becomes 3 hits that still take blades while breaking a shield and STILL doing most of the spell's damage to your opponent... terrible, I know.

Dridsuzy wrote:
Back to Reshuffle...it's overated and I only keep it in my treasure cards (which anyone can buy.) It's quite easy to throw a Weakness and a Tower Shield...and then use a Treasure card Tower Shield to stack it. You don't need reshuffle for this.


If you think reshuffle is overrated, you aren't doing it right. Reshuffle is the most powerful card in the game behind the stuns (and they are broken) because it completely changes up what is possible in deckbuilding. It lets you build smaller decks and discard aggressively for a tighter game plan. This is pretty strong when spending 6 on the card (which is what the other schools REALLY spend on the treasure card: 3 power pips), but at 2 power pips, it's borderline broken. Even if they made a balance shield, it will STILL be pretty easy to lock most schools out of the match by playing the same 2 spirit/elemental shields + towers and weaknesses 5-7 times (fire school being the big, fat exception)... Then again, I can't be telling you this... I suck and you are all better, right?

The ONLY thing that keeps reshuffle from being an issue right now is that it doesn't play well with judgement.

Oh, and building smaller decks and maindecking reshuffle frees up sidebord slots and also makes singleton cards like the ones from items alot more reasonable. Think about jade oni...

I'm leveling my balance wizard now because it has alot of flexibility to go either 1 hit kill or turtle up for attrition fights, while most other schools can only do one or the other. I'm thinking that reshuffle makes it a little TOO good at both though, so it couldn't hurt to raise the non-treasure Reshuffle to 5. That, and making feint a death only spell would make it so that Balance could have more powerful attack spells overall without fear of breaking the game.


let's have a go, shall we? see in what way i vivisect your post. fun fun.

part one: a person who redirects attacks like that is just afraid to answer them seriously.

part two: well, if a high percentage of pvpers in general are balance, then of course more of the top (insert number here) will be balance! it's a simple matter of simplified ratios!

part three: a sorcerer (in fact, everyone but a necromancer) has to pay SEVEN training points to get feint. a storm wizard has two trap spells, a blade spell, and a global spell to boost damage just in their school (no training points necessary); fire has a blade, a trap, and a global spell; balance has a blade (which boosts less than every other blade) aaaand... one trap!
pop quiz: what is the weakness of a school that cannot block itself? itself. besides, ever heard of towershield? spiritarmor? earthquake is the ultimate vanquisher of sorcerers, ruining the turtle and boost 'n' blast strategies at once.

part four: please explain how a spell that takes all your blades that haven't been duplicated and then proceeds to bounce of traps is not detrimental to a school that uses the boost 'n' blast. and do you really expect devout pvpers to wear clothes with no resistance to anything and no added health? people wear their normal combat robes; the "arena gear" is purely a wearable trophy, nothing more.
furthermore, a person who has their training points all spent in one set (elemental and spiritual) of magic is bad at decision-making (or they can make good use of prisms and the spells from niles to wipe out the opponent)

point five: if reshuffle buries a judgement deep in the deck, why would a sorcerer USE IT!?!?!?!?!? although i agree that it is a good spell, you have to time it well. using a reshuffle at the wrong moment (say, when you're low on cards and the next one is almost definitely a judgement) totally messes it up. in short, balance wizards should have no problem; sorcerers need to use a lot of strategy anyway.

Explorer
Mar 19, 2010
65
Dridsuzy wrote:
Another thread about Balance being OP (overpowered). Yawn.

Use Weakness and Tower Shield. Then, if you must, stack them with Treasure Weakness and Treasure Tower Shield. You should be doing this against everyone anyway. Why? Cause it works.

It's all about the timing...which equates to strategy...which equates to SKILL. At least when you fight a Balance Wizard you know exactly what's coming...usually. :)

Personally, as a Grandmaster Balance Sorcerer, I've given up on the whole Turtle/Judgment strategy. Why? Cause it's too easy to DEFEAT.

The main drawback with using Judgment is that it takes ALL your pips. Next round you start from scratch. Being that a big Judgment is far too easy to disrupt, this leaves a Balance Wizard very vulnerable. How many Helephants can be thrown back to back, or Tritons, or whatever? When you look at it this way, then Balance Wizards are the LEAST of your concerns.

Especially when you consider that most our buffs and shields are LESSER versions of what everyone else has. Add to that our totally useless "World Spell" Power Play, totally underpowered 6 pip spell Hydra, and our unpredictable 4 pip Spectral Blast, you can see that a Balance Wizard is almost pigeonholed into using Judgment.



Why should we be forced to give up our well earned gold to buy tower shield and weakness treasure cards just to fight some cheap and noobish strategy from balance.

Your right, its all about the timing, the timing of when to leave the match from rage quitting.

Instead of clinging onto your judgement spell why not ask KI to give you better spells for the new updates.

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
77296 wrote:
Dridsuzy wrote:
Another thread about Balance being OP (overpowered). Yawn.

Use Weakness and Tower Shield. Then, if you must, stack them with Treasure Weakness and Treasure Tower Shield. You should be doing this against everyone anyway. Why? Cause it works.

It's all about the timing...which equates to strategy...which equates to SKILL. At least when you fight a Balance Wizard you know exactly what's coming...usually. :-)

Personally, as a Grandmaster Balance Sorcerer, I've given up on the whole Turtle/Judgment strategy. Why? Cause it's too easy to DEFEAT.

The main drawback with using Judgment is that it takes ALL your pips. Next round you start from scratch. Being that a big Judgment is far too easy to disrupt, this leaves a Balance Wizard very vulnerable. How many Helephants can be thrown back to back, or Tritons, or whatever? When you look at it this way, then Balance Wizards are the LEAST of your concerns.

Especially when you consider that most our buffs and shields are LESSER versions of what everyone else has. Add to that our totally useless "World Spell" Power Play, totally underpowered 6 pip spell Hydra, and our unpredictable 4 pip Spectral Blast, you can see that a Balance Wizard is almost pigeonholed into using Judgment.



Why should we be forced to give up our well earned gold to buy tower shield and weakness treasure cards just to fight some cheap and noobish strategy from balance.

Your right, its all about the timing, the timing of when to leave the match from rage quitting.

Instead of clinging onto your judgement spell why not ask KI to give you better spells for the new updates.


i have a question. what school are you? doesn't matter anyway. i'll direct you to my post "once and for all", which gives a strategy for every school to combat balance. you don't really have to buy anything.

by the way, judgement is neither cheap nor noobish. it's rather hard to get (unless the balance wizard takes the liberty of finding alternate ways around the problematic dual life bosses. . . hint to you sorcerers there :-P), deals about average damage per pip, and requires multiple boosts to be used effectively, requiring strategic use of spells (and since "noobs" are the ones new to the game and that can't form good strategies, judgement is not noobish).

and if you would rather flee than lose, that makes you a very sore loser in my book. you think i flee when i know the storm wizard opposite me is going to wipe out my minion and over half my health next turn? i don't. i weather it out and form a STRATEGY.

ps: if you think judgement is op, and you say that we sorcerers should give it up and ask ki for more powerful spells in the update, which people like you would kvetch about once they came to exist... it sounds like you're just trying to be difficult with us.

2