The Tower of Helephant was a great when the level cap was level 60. I would like to see a level 100 version of that dungeon. It would be cool if each monsters health tripled, their cheats doubled in effects, and they have resist and damage like in pvp.
I know I was vague on describing how this would work, but any ideas on this? I like challenges.
Tiered dungeons would be nice. It would give much needed replay value to some of our old favorites that are no longer a challenge anymore: Sunken City, Tomb of the Beguiler, Kensington Park, Tree of Life, Malistaire's Lair, Nastrond, Briskbreeze Tower, Waterworks, Tower of the Helephant, Mirror Lake, Ghost Avalon...
...only one of my wizards has done the new dungeons you access from Krokotopia and Marleybone. I wanted to see the great feats the world design group had performed. But, in terms of gameplay, there's just not enough challenge for me to send any others through them.
The Tower of Helephant was a great when the level cap was level 60. I would like to see a level 100 version of that dungeon. It would be cool if each monsters health tripled, their cheats doubled in effects, and they have resist and damage like in pvp.
I know I was vague on describing how this would work, but any ideas on this? I like challenges.
I guess this is an area where people have different needs. I have enough original content that I still need to complete. I don't have time to go back and redo things I've already done whether they've remained the same, or the difficulty level has changed.
Personally I've grown weary of cheating bosses because they waste so much time. As a result, I for one would not find any value in a Tower of the Helephant where the cheats are doubled and health tripled. That would be mind-numbingly boring to sit through a 2½ hour battle where I spend 1½ hours defending against cheats or watching cheat spell animations while accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Something a friend of mine used to do is delete her wizards once they reached the end (whatever world that was at the time) and start over again. That was her way of making things like Tower of the Helephant and everything else a challenge again by doing it all at the levels at which things were intended to be a challenge. Maybe that's an option to consider for those who value challenges above all else.
The tiered dungeons might work for some, but that would probably take time away from developing new, original content. If KI can do it without compromising their expansion efforts, then I see no problem with them doing it. But if it's done, I would like to see KI provide what people are asking for and ONLY make it a challenge. Don't create any special gear or any other special rewards (that includes making no special badge for completion), and don't make it a quest. Just make it a special instance for people who want a challenge to choose so that they can be challenged. That way people who just want to keep playing the game won't feel obligated or compelled to do something they have no interest in doing, and they won't feel excluded if they choose not to participate.
I guess this is an area where people have different needs. I have enough original content that I still need to complete. I don't have time to go back and redo things I've already done whether they've remained the same, or the difficulty level has changed.
Personally I've grown weary of cheating bosses because they waste so much time. As a result, I for one would not find any value in a Tower of the Helephant where the cheats are doubled and health tripled. That would be mind-numbingly boring to sit through a 2½ hour battle where I spend 1½ hours defending against cheats or watching cheat spell animations while accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Something a friend of mine used to do is delete her wizards once they reached the end (whatever world that was at the time) and start over again. That was her way of making things like Tower of the Helephant and everything else a challenge again by doing it all at the levels at which things were intended to be a challenge. Maybe that's an option to consider for those who value challenges above all else.
The tiered dungeons might work for some, but that would probably take time away from developing new, original content. If KI can do it without compromising their expansion efforts, then I see no problem with them doing it. But if it's done, I would like to see KI provide what people are asking for and ONLY make it a challenge. Don't create any special gear or any other special rewards (that includes making no special badge for completion), and don't make it a quest. Just make it a special instance for people who want a challenge to choose so that they can be challenged. That way people who just want to keep playing the game won't feel obligated or compelled to do something they have no interest in doing, and they won't feel excluded if they choose not to participate.
I disagree with the idea of implementing challenging areas with no reward. While the challenge in and of itself is fun the rewards are what make the dungeon worth it in the end. I point to Buneferatu in Castle Darkmoor as an example. He is one of the more challenging bosses but yet does not see nearly as much play as the main dm bosses? Why is that? Simply because he does not offer anything of value to the players completing him. Even if the rewards are superficial(such as a special badge or cool looking gear) there needs to be an award system in place to ensure the area will see play. People who just want to play the game can do just that. No one is forcing anyone to go to darkmoor and the gear is demonstrably not needed for PvE(most people were maxed and completed the game long before they reached dm).
I disagree with the idea of implementing challenging areas with no reward. While the challenge in and of itself is fun the rewards are what make the dungeon worth it in the end. I point to Buneferatu in Castle Darkmoor as an example. He is one of the more challenging bosses but yet does not see nearly as much play as the main dm bosses? Why is that? Simply because he does not offer anything of value to the players completing him. Even if the rewards are superficial(such as a special badge or cool looking gear) there needs to be an award system in place to ensure the area will see play. People who just want to play the game can do just that. No one is forcing anyone to go to darkmoor and the gear is demonstrably not needed for PvE(most people were maxed and completed the game long before they reached dm).
While the challenge in and of itself is fun the rewards are what make the dungeon worth it in the end.
Exactly. And it's also what frustrates those who do not have the time to repeatedly fight these pointless battles just to try and get certain rewards.
No one is forcing anyone to go to darkmoor
This is a dangerous message to send to loyal players. Nobody is forcing us to spend money on Crowns nor memberships neither.
It's a precarious ledge KI finds themselves on leaning towards catering to the treasure hunters. If the rest of us keep getting told that we don't have to play this game, we may just stop.
While the challenge in and of itself is fun the rewards are what make the dungeon worth it in the end.
Exactly. And it's also what frustrates those who do not have the time to repeatedly fight these pointless battles just to try and get certain rewards.
No one is forcing anyone to go to darkmoor
This is a dangerous message to send to loyal players. Nobody is forcing us to spend money on Crowns nor memberships neither.
It's a precarious ledge KI finds themselves on leaning towards catering to the treasure hunters. If the rest of us keep getting told that we don't have to play this game, we may just stop.
To me putting tough side dungeons is exactly how ki can appeal to both segments of the population. The tough side dungeons cater to the "treasure hunters" who until now simply did not have a challenge that rose to their level. The main game can remain casual to appeal to the majority of the player base. This offers the best of both worlds to both types of players. I am not sure why casual players feel alienated in a game where 99% of the content appeals to their tastes and just recently added optional content to appeal to a specific segment of the population. It seems to me that the prevailing attitude is that wizard 101 should have no hardcore content to appeal to that segment of it's players which isn't very inclusive if you ask me.
To me putting tough side dungeons is exactly how ki can appeal to both segments of the population. The tough side dungeons cater to the "treasure hunters" who until now simply did not have a challenge that rose to their level. The main game can remain casual to appeal to the majority of the player base. This offers the best of both worlds to both types of players. I am not sure why casual players feel alienated in a game where 99% of the content appeals to their tastes and just recently added optional content to appeal to a specific segment of the population. It seems to me that the prevailing attitude is that wizard 101 should have no hardcore content to appeal to that segment of it's players which isn't very inclusive if you ask me.
The tough side dungeons cater to the "treasure hunters" who until now simply did not have a challenge that rose to their level.
But again, that's not an accurate assessment. People play for the rewards, as you've conceded. The challenge is an afterthought. Most treasure hunters just happen to have a lot of time on their hands. Their repetition of these dungeons has less to do with a challenge to their skill, and more to do with the time they have to keep doing it until they get what they want.
I am not sure why casual players feel alienated in a game where 99% of the content appeals to their tastes and just recently added optional content to appeal to a specific segment of the population.
The problem is that most people do not see these dungeons as "optional" content. And quite frankly gear like that which is dropped in places like Waterworks and Darkmoor appeals to everyone, including casual players.
The part that alienates casual players is that getting the drops people want has nothing to do with skill. I did Waterworks hundreds of times and still never completed gear sets for every wizard. There were dozens of times where the best drop I got was a Delicious Cookie.
I don't see how adding more content like that adds value to the game. Cronus, Gladiator Dimachaerus... more "optional" content with coveted drops that have nothing to do with skill and everything to do with time and luck.
Basically KI is telling people who have limited time that they have to settle for substandard equipment. That's what creates a sense of alienation.
If they want to make something to keep the treasure hunters busy, give them other special drops. Pets, mounts, maybe even gear that just has a special appearance. But gear with the best stats that will help people questing in PvE should not be put on brutal bosses with pitiful drop rates.
These side dungeons should be a one-and-done option for casual players, meaning there's nothing in there that we need to keep going back for if we don't get it the first time.
The tough side dungeons cater to the "treasure hunters" who until now simply did not have a challenge that rose to their level.
But again, that's not an accurate assessment. People play for the rewards, as you've conceded. The challenge is an afterthought. Most treasure hunters just happen to have a lot of time on their hands. Their repetition of these dungeons has less to do with a challenge to their skill, and more to do with the time they have to keep doing it until they get what they want.
I am not sure why casual players feel alienated in a game where 99% of the content appeals to their tastes and just recently added optional content to appeal to a specific segment of the population.
The problem is that most people do not see these dungeons as "optional" content. And quite frankly gear like that which is dropped in places like Waterworks and Darkmoor appeals to everyone, including casual players.
The part that alienates casual players is that getting the drops people want has nothing to do with skill. I did Waterworks hundreds of times and still never completed gear sets for every wizard. There were dozens of times where the best drop I got was a Delicious Cookie.
I don't see how adding more content like that adds value to the game. Cronus, Gladiator Dimachaerus... more "optional" content with coveted drops that have nothing to do with skill and everything to do with time and luck.
Basically KI is telling people who have limited time that they have to settle for substandard equipment. That's what creates a sense of alienation.
If they want to make something to keep the treasure hunters busy, give them other special drops. Pets, mounts, maybe even gear that just has a special appearance. But gear with the best stats that will help people questing in PvE should not be put on brutal bosses with pitiful drop rates.
These side dungeons should be a one-and-done option for casual players, meaning there's nothing in there that we need to keep going back for if we don't get it the first time.
People play for the rewards, as you've conceded. The challenge is an afterthought. This is where you are wrong. Treasure hunter's don't play for one or the other they play for both. I will use myself as an example: I have 3 full sets of DM gear on my storm yet I continue to do darkmoor regularly...simply because I enjoy the challenge it has to offer.
I can understand your points on drop rate and I do believe that ridiculous rates found on Morganthe should never happen again. However with Castle DM we have a very reasonable drop rate around 30-40% from my recorded trials.
But gear with the best stats that will help people questing in PvE should not be put on brutal bosses with pitiful drop rates.
Drop rates should be reasonable(and for DM they are) however I have no problem putting the best gear on the toughest bosses. Higher rewards for tougher challenges is exactly as it should be as long as the next set lower than the best gear is still competitive(Crafted gear certainly fits this bill).
If you dont enjoy the content then don't do it-its that simple. The gear in DM is demonstrably not necessary for PvE.
