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Mana Burn

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 19, 2008
2
It makes me quite angry and in fact happened twice today... I am pvping and i use mana burn while the opponent has say 9 pips for example. I go first and take his pips leaving him with 6, however, on this same turn the opponent casts sirens and kills me and my partner. I would like to see it put into the game where if I mana burn off the required amount of pips to use a spell it has a dispel-like effect and causes them to fizzle automatically. I would love to see something, anything done to fix this as if you don't have the required number of pips you shouldn't be able to cast a spell.

Ben

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
soccer55125 wrote:
It makes me quite angry and in fact happened twice today... I am pvping and i use mana burn while the opponent has say 9 pips for example. I go first and take his pips leaving him with 6, however, on this same turn the opponent casts sirens and kills me and my partner. I would like to see it put into the game where if I mana burn off the required amount of pips to use a spell it has a dispel-like effect and causes them to fizzle automatically. I would love to see something, anything done to fix this as if you don't have the required number of pips you shouldn't be able to cast a spell.

Ben


I don't PvP, but I totally agree with you. Sadly, it won't happen~ Mana Burn has always been horribly broken, but KI would have told us by now if they intended to fix it.

Note to other schools:Despite what you think, Mana Burn is NOT a version of Judge that takes away pips (though I kinda wish it was)~ it's a free cast for your opponent. How is that overpowered?

-veebz
archmage sorceress

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
This would make mana burn overpowered as it would be a pip taker, damager and auto fizzler. KI has already adjusted mana burn so that even though they use the relevant number of pips within the same round, if they used the pips that werent taken, they will start the next round with a pip or power pip.

Delver
Jan 13, 2010
267
soccer55125 wrote:
It makes me quite angry and in fact happened twice today... I am pvping and i use mana burn while the opponent has say 9 pips for example. I go first and take his pips leaving him with 6, however, on this same turn the opponent casts sirens and kills me and my partner. I would like to see it put into the game where if I mana burn off the required amount of pips to use a spell it has a dispel-like effect and causes them to fizzle automatically. I would love to see something, anything done to fix this as if you don't have the required number of pips you shouldn't be able to cast a spell.

Ben


Well, cant you use your mana burn when he has eight pips? It will only do 80 damage less andthat is not much

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
vonawesome1 wrote:
soccer55125 wrote:
It makes me quite angry and in fact happened twice today... I am pvping and i use mana burn while the opponent has say 9 pips for example. I go first and take his pips leaving him with 6, however, on this same turn the opponent casts sirens and kills me and my partner. I would like to see it put into the game where if I mana burn off the required amount of pips to use a spell it has a dispel-like effect and causes them to fizzle automatically. I would love to see something, anything done to fix this as if you don't have the required number of pips you shouldn't be able to cast a spell.

Ben


I don't PvP, but I totally agree with you. Sadly, it won't happen~ Mana Burn has always been horribly broken, but KI would have told us by now if they intended to fix it.

Note to other schools:Despite what you think, Mana Burn is NOT a version of Judge that takes away pips (though I kinda wish it was)~ it's a free cast for your opponent. How is that overpowered?

-veebz
archmage sorceress

The fact that you dont PvP is exactly why you do not understand why many people consider mana burn an OP spell. Unless you are a perfectly good predictor, mana burn is NOT a free cast for your opponent, does a great amount of damage and severely constrains your options. Now I am still on the fence on whether mana burn is OP or not but to claim that it is simply a free cast is simply false.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
FatesKin wrote:
vonawesome1 wrote:
soccer55125 wrote:
It makes me quite angry and in fact happened twice today... I am pvping and i use mana burn while the opponent has say 9 pips for example. I go first and take his pips leaving him with 6, however, on this same turn the opponent casts sirens and kills me and my partner. I would like to see it put into the game where if I mana burn off the required amount of pips to use a spell it has a dispel-like effect and causes them to fizzle automatically. I would love to see something, anything done to fix this as if you don't have the required number of pips you shouldn't be able to cast a spell.

Ben


I don't PvP, but I totally agree with you. Sadly, it won't happen~ Mana Burn has always been horribly broken, but KI would have told us by now if they intended to fix it.

Note to other schools:Despite what you think, Mana Burn is NOT a version of Judge that takes away pips (though I kinda wish it was)~ it's a free cast for your opponent. How is that overpowered?

-veebz
archmage sorceress

The fact that you dont PvP is exactly why you do not understand why many people consider mana burn an OP spell. Unless you are a perfectly good predictor, mana burn is NOT a free cast for your opponent, does a great amount of damage and severely constrains your options. Now I am still on the fence on whether mana burn is OP or not but to claim that it is simply a free cast is simply false.


Oh, please. Mana Burn is not overpowered~ you don't need to PvP to know that. And I'm going to bet that you've never played a Balance wizard~ sounds like you went up against one who was prepared and are upset because he didn't just let you smash him.

First, it is a free cast: even if you take the opponent's pips, he still gets to cast his rank 6 spell, even if he no longer has the pips to cast it with... explain to me how that's not a free cast. Might I also add that it can't be enchanted, or have its damage increased in any way.

I guess I should also add that the reason I don't PvP is because of the collective bad attitude and negative vibes. Even this post belongs on the PvP board, with the other five trillion complaints about how every spell in the Spiral is overpowered. Should there ever come a day when the arena is known for more than spamming complaints to the boards, then I may well have a reason for wanting to be there.

To quote one of my favourite posters: "have some cheese with your whine".

Have a nice day!
-veebz

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
vonawesome1 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
vonawesome1 wrote:
soccer55125 wrote:
It makes me quite angry and in fact happened twice today... I am pvping and i use mana burn while the opponent has say 9 pips for example. I go first and take his pips leaving him with 6, however, on this same turn the opponent casts sirens and kills me and my partner. I would like to see it put into the game where if I mana burn off the required amount of pips to use a spell it has a dispel-like effect and causes them to fizzle automatically. I would love to see something, anything done to fix this as if you don't have the required number of pips you shouldn't be able to cast a spell.

Ben


I don't PvP, but I totally agree with you. Sadly, it won't happen~ Mana Burn has always been horribly broken, but KI would have told us by now if they intended to fix it.

Note to other schools:Despite what you think, Mana Burn is NOT a version of Judge that takes away pips (though I kinda wish it was)~ it's a free cast for your opponent. How is that overpowered?

-veebz
archmage sorceress

The fact that you dont PvP is exactly why you do not understand why many people consider mana burn an OP spell. Unless you are a perfectly good predictor, mana burn is NOT a free cast for your opponent, does a great amount of damage and severely constrains your options. Now I am still on the fence on whether mana burn is OP or not but to claim that it is simply a free cast is simply false.


Oh, please. Mana Burn is not overpowered~ you don't need to PvP to know that. And I'm going to bet that you've never played a Balance wizard~ sounds like you went up against one who was prepared and are upset because he didn't just let you smash him.

First, it is a free cast: even if you take the opponent's pips, he still gets to cast his rank 6 spell, even if he no longer has the pips to cast it with... explain to me how that's not a free cast. Might I also add that it can't be enchanted, or have its damage increased in any way.

I guess I should also add that the reason I don't PvP is because of the collective bad attitude and negative vibes. Even this post belongs on the PvP board, with the other five trillion complaints about how every spell in the Spiral is overpowered. Should there ever come a day when the arena is known for more than spamming complaints to the boards, then I may well have a reason for wanting to be there.

To quote one of my favourite posters: "have some cheese with your whine".

Have a nice day!
-veebz

Lol, this post made me laugh because there are several large(mostly false) assumptions. First of all I am not here to complain about mana burn. I am currently still analyzing the spell and if you had payed attention to my original post you would note that I am on the fence about the relative power of this spell. I am currently on the fence because if a balance wizard is going second mana burn is the ONLY spell in the game that has the potential of having absolutely no effect for 5 pips. No I do not have a balance wizard although I have fought many in the arena. I have won and lost to mana burn centric strategies so I don't know why you must assume that it is because I have repeatedly lost to this strategy is the reason I understand why many would consider the spell overpowered. That being said it is not a free cast unless three things happen 1)Your opponent is going second 2) Your opponent used a spell on the same turn that you tried to mana burn 3)Your opponents spell cost the exact number of pips that was burned away. In most cases(even when your opponent has predicted the spell) mana burn is not a free cast, consider this: Your opponent has 4 power pips, you cast mana burn and your opponent casts triton. Now the triton is still cast but on the next turn your opponent gains a pip/powerpip instead of the 3 to 4 pips he would have had if mana burn was truly a free cast. Thank goodness it cannot be enchanted, it does damage, steals pips and breaks towers. As to your reasons for not joining PvP, you are welcome to have them and I will not attempt to sway your opinion either way. Finally, I would not mind some cheese especially if darth is the one serving it ;)

Defender
Jun 14, 2010
160
Von, 

I actually kinda like you, ever since you posted that short story about your Wizard a while ago. I respect your writing ability,  so I'll try to explain this politely. 

First off, for the love of this board, please do not quote a 'certain poster', with that cheesey line. 
Not only is it extremely condescending, but you used it completely out of context, as FatesKin was not whining at all. 
They presented their argument fairly and articulately. 

Next, FatesKin was also correct about it not being a free cast. It simply isn't one at all. 

If you mana burn me the same round I cast my Scarecrow, I lose some pips, and am still able to cast. 
Regardless of whether u mana burn me or not, I still would have used those pips on that spell, that round!

If at the beginning of a round during the 30sec timer, I selected Scarecrow and I only had 2 pips, then yes, that would indeed be a free cast. 

But since my pips are eaten on the same turn I would have used them all anyway, it's not a free cast, but rather an illusion of one. 

Survivor
Sep 26, 2009
16
That would be good, and it wouldnt be powerful, its a gread idea. I was about to post something about that too

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
loki1201 wrote:
Von, 

I actually kinda like you, ever since you posted that short story about your Wizard a while ago. I respect your writing ability,  so I'll try to explain this politely. 

First off, for the love of this board, please do not quote a 'certain poster', with that cheesey line. 
Not only is it extremely condescending, but you used it completely out of context, as FatesKin was not whining at all. 
They presented their argument fairly and articulately. 

Next, FatesKin was also correct about it not being a free cast. It simply isn't one at all. 

If you mana burn me the same round I cast my Scarecrow, I lose some pips, and am still able to cast. 
Regardless of whether u mana burn me or not, I still would have used those pips on that spell, that round!

If at the beginning of a round during the 30sec timer, I selected Scarecrow and I only had 2 pips, then yes, that would indeed be a free cast. 

But since my pips are eaten on the same turn I would have used them all anyway, it's not a free cast, but rather an illusion of one. 


Loki~

First of all, thanks for the compliment... and for taking the time to present your case in a way that's not obnoxious. I appreciate that, as well as your use of the word "cheesy" when referring to JT's line~ mad literary props to you. ;)

As a defensive spell, Mana Burn serves no purpose, as it doesn't actually defend you from anything: it doesn't stop the enemy from hitting you, nor does it prevent him from healing himself. I suppose it could be, as you said, an "illusion", but if you're casting a 6-pip spell for no pips, it is (essentially) free. But let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

That said, I don't believe I was out of line. Fate, your original reply to me is incredibly condescending~ according to you, I'm wrong and can't possibly understand my own spells, because I don't PvP. And I didn't say that I've never PvPed, just that I don't currently. That was an assumption on your part, so if you want to talk assumptions... Pot, meet Kettle.

And, cheese is wonderful... even if there's no whine, and Darth isn't serving. ;)

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
vonawesome1 wrote:
loki1201 wrote:
Von, 

I actually kinda like you, ever since you posted that short story about your Wizard a while ago. I respect your writing ability,  so I'll try to explain this politely. 

First off, for the love of this board, please do not quote a 'certain poster', with that cheesey line. 
Not only is it extremely condescending, but you used it completely out of context, as FatesKin was not whining at all. 
They presented their argument fairly and articulately. 

Next, FatesKin was also correct about it not being a free cast. It simply isn't one at all. 

If you mana burn me the same round I cast my Scarecrow, I lose some pips, and am still able to cast. 
Regardless of whether u mana burn me or not, I still would have used those pips on that spell, that round!

If at the beginning of a round during the 30sec timer, I selected Scarecrow and I only had 2 pips, then yes, that would indeed be a free cast. 

But since my pips are eaten on the same turn I would have used them all anyway, it's not a free cast, but rather an illusion of one. 


Loki~

First of all, thanks for the compliment... and for taking the time to present your case in a way that's not obnoxious. I appreciate that, as well as your use of the word "cheesy" when referring to JT's line~ mad literary props to you. ;)

As a defensive spell, Mana Burn serves no purpose, as it doesn't actually defend you from anything: it doesn't stop the enemy from hitting you, nor does it prevent him from healing himself. I suppose it could be, as you said, an "illusion", but if you're casting a 6-pip spell for no pips, it is (essentially) free. But let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

That said, I don't believe I was out of line. Fate, your original reply to me is incredibly condescending~ according to you, I'm wrong and can't possibly understand my own spells, because I don't PvP. And I didn't say that I've never PvPed, just that I don't currently. That was an assumption on your part, so if you want to talk assumptions... Pot, meet Kettle.

And, cheese is wonderful... even if there's no whine, and Darth isn't serving. ;)


I regret that my post came across as condescending, that was not the intent. Unfortunately, tone of voice is often the first casualty in a written debate and I apologize if you took my post as condescending or insulting. That being said, I never said that you can not hope to understand your own spell, what i did say is that your lack of PvP is why you do not understand why many other players consider mana burn an overpowered spell. I didnt assume you never PvPed, but in the post that I quoted you very clearly stated that "I don't PvP". Whether you PvPed before or not is unfortunately irrelevant to this conversation which is referring to current PvP game mechanics and scenarios. As for mana burn having no defensive value...it does not have same turn defensive capabilities but it does have multi-turn defendability. If a wizard is dependent on high ranked spells. a balance wizard can lock out said wizards attack possibility for a number of turns. Not only that but mana burn is a severe pip constrainer and forces your opponent to make tough choices. Instead of saving up pips for a large attack and a heal possibility, a balance wizard has the potential to force a wizard to live paycheck to paycheck (or rather pip to pip) which is an excellent preemptive combo breaker/preventer.

Survivor
Feb 20, 2012
49
I do not want to be in any type of argument with anyone over this. But I do not like that idea. It just doesn't seem fair. Whether any of you say it is or not, it is over powered already considering it takes pips. I have been killed many times by Balance Players because they used mana burn before I could use Leviathan(I'm Storm), then using a Judgement with Colossal. Plus, balance is the only school that you can't shield against.(other than tower and legion shield). I don't think we should have Mana Burn at all but this is just my opinion. Honestly though I do not think they should change anything about the spell.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
FatesKin wrote:
I regret that my post came across as condescending, that was not the intent. Unfortunately, tone of voice is often the first casualty in a written debate and I apologize if you took my post as condescending or insulting. That being said, I never said that you can not hope to understand your own spell, what i did say is that your lack of PvP is why you do not understand why many other players consider mana burn an overpowered spell. I didnt assume you never PvPed, but in the post that I quoted you very clearly stated that "I don't PvP". Whether you PvPed before or not is unfortunately irrelevant to this conversation which is referring to current PvP game mechanics and scenarios. As for mana burn having no defensive value...it does not have same turn defensive capabilities but it does have multi-turn defendability. If a wizard is dependent on high ranked spells. a balance wizard can lock out said wizards attack possibility for a number of turns. Not only that but mana burn is a severe pip constrainer and forces your opponent to make tough choices. Instead of saving up pips for a large attack and a heal possibility, a balance wizard has the potential to force a wizard to live paycheck to paycheck (or rather pip to pip) which is an excellent preemptive combo breaker/preventer.


Apology accepted. ;)

This post is already ten times better than the other one. You made your point clearly this time, took the time to explain things without being presumptuous, and I respect that. I think we've both made our share of assumptions, and I apologize for my part as well.

Unfortunately, text can be easily misinterpreted. Things probably wouldn't have spiraled (pun intended) out of control so quickly, had we been talking face-to-face; but, without a voice to accompany the text, we can't hear each others' tones, or interpret the words as they may have been intended by the speaker.

Once again, thanks for clarifying~ even if I don't agree completely with your argument, I have a better understanding of where you're coming from.

Cheers!
-veebz

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
vonawesome1 wrote:
FatesKin wrote:
I regret that my post came across as condescending, that was not the intent. Unfortunately, tone of voice is often the first casualty in a written debate and I apologize if you took my post as condescending or insulting. That being said, I never said that you can not hope to understand your own spell, what i did say is that your lack of PvP is why you do not understand why many other players consider mana burn an overpowered spell. I didnt assume you never PvPed, but in the post that I quoted you very clearly stated that "I don't PvP". Whether you PvPed before or not is unfortunately irrelevant to this conversation which is referring to current PvP game mechanics and scenarios. As for mana burn having no defensive value...it does not have same turn defensive capabilities but it does have multi-turn defendability. If a wizard is dependent on high ranked spells. a balance wizard can lock out said wizards attack possibility for a number of turns. Not only that but mana burn is a severe pip constrainer and forces your opponent to make tough choices. Instead of saving up pips for a large attack and a heal possibility, a balance wizard has the potential to force a wizard to live paycheck to paycheck (or rather pip to pip) which is an excellent preemptive combo breaker/preventer.


Apology accepted. ;)

This post is already ten times better than the other one. You made your point clearly this time, took the time to explain things without being presumptuous, and I respect that. I think we've both made our share of assumptions, and I apologize for my part as well.

Unfortunately, text can be easily misinterpreted. Things probably wouldn't have spiraled (pun intended) out of control so quickly, had we been talking face-to-face; but, without a voice to accompany the text, we can't hear each others' tones, or interpret the words as they may have been intended by the speaker.

Once again, thanks for clarifying~ even if I don't agree completely with your argument, I have a better understanding of where you're coming from.

Cheers!
-veebz


Mutual respect and understanding is key to any discussion and I thank you for your part in bringing that about.