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Team that goes last, shields first

2
AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
darthjt wrote:
seasnake wrote:
Jaypaw101 wrote:
Here we all are, brainstorming complicated ideas like this, and darthjt makes us all look like fools! Starting off with one pip is a wondrous idea, back to the good old days before we all got wands and swords that give a pip and items that make it nigh impossible to not get a power pip. It wouldn't solve the entire delimma, it still wouldn't take that long for someone to build up an attack, but it would give us a fighting chance. My compliments on finding such a simple, effective method darthjt!


I for one do not share in your love affair for darthjt's idea. For one, storm still hits incredibly hard with one pip tempests especially if they critical so going first and being killed going last on first turn isn't resolved under this idea, and second now the team that goes last can no longer afford to heal first turn or even cast plague. So if team one that is all storm casts tempest on their first two turns they know that team two won't have plagues upon them and will not have been able to heal in any way. The one starting pip idea is a complete failure that does not resolve the problem but actually makes things worse than they currently are in 4v4 pvp. Starting the side that goes first with a one pip reduction while keeping team two with their regular starting pips is something I have suggested in the past that was only met with great hostility towards me with cries of how unfair it would be to team one who has every advantage.


Seasnake, your issue was that storm can kill you on the first round, without being able to shield or do anything in return...

Going back to 1 pip, does not even have to be a power pip, how does that make storm too overpowered? lol they can't use wildbolt or insane bolt right off the bat... 80 damage + 250 gargantuan = 330 + 85% = 611

Now, with resistance of 35%, damage would be 397...

Now, factor in all your IF's, If Storm has 85% power boost rating, if All storm hit Critical, If you fail every block, then damage might be...

794 x 4 =3176 Yes, It could still kill most players, of course the chances are oh, I dunno, like being hit by insane bolt successfully 1000 times in a row without killing yourself... Making it to where you can understand, since you are not open to anything, but your own idea...

So, If they can't kill you, you can shield, use auras and gives you more time, how can you be against it? Think of it like this, IF storm did cast tempest, it did it's 397 Damage and your pet casted spritely, you would be healed almost completely first round and they would have lost a pip...



A 4v4 storm team on one initial starting pip still kills the other side on turn one cause they gargantuan their tempests and likely even get a critical hit or two to get through. With a lack of pips the side going second would be unable to cast 40% damage reduction plagues or heal with unicorn or get up anything in terms of stronger defenses or do anything in terms of stronger heals. If an all tempesting first turn team does not kill on the first turn, they are most likely going to on the second as the team going second has already taken large damage and has a lack of pips to work with. That is why I am so against this idea, it does nothing to solve the one sided side who goes first problems. It heavily favors storm players at the expense of players who play schools such as life and death. I am very well aware of your stance on playing storm and your idea looks very favorable for storm players over those who aren't, and I say that being amongst one of the most outspoken storm players in the game. Essentially your idea says you want to maintain all the advantages of going first while eliminating all the defenses of going last and if first turn killing is the problem you are willing to maybe not kill as easily on the first turn as long as the side going last can't properly respond to your lesser damage so you can mass defeat them on the second without problem. I see nothing changing for the better under reduced starting pips as the same problems are still there while new ones involving the second side being able to do very little without pips even if somehow they manage to survive the first turn onslaught are created.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
I am however not opposed to no pips at start being one of many selectable match options for PvP if Wizard101 would ever come out with PvP options. Lower pips just doesn't solve the problems I'm looking to be solved in any sort of way that adequately evens out the advantages of going first over going last, and storm is still likely to kill first turn and if not second turn under it, giving up the second to play team's ability to do anything should they survive an initial first turn onslaught just isn't doing it for me.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
seasnake wrote:
darthjt wrote:
seasnake wrote:
Jaypaw101 wrote:
Here we all are, brainstorming complicated ideas like this, and darthjt makes us all look like fools! Starting off with one pip is a wondrous idea, back to the good old days before we all got wands and swords that give a pip and items that make it nigh impossible to not get a power pip. It wouldn't solve the entire delimma, it still wouldn't take that long for someone to build up an attack, but it would give us a fighting chance. My compliments on finding such a simple, effective method darthjt!


I for one do not share in your love affair for darthjt's idea. For one, storm still hits incredibly hard with one pip tempests especially if they critical so going first and being killed going last on first turn isn't resolved under this idea, and second now the team that goes last can no longer afford to heal first turn or even cast plague. So if team one that is all storm casts tempest on their first two turns they know that team two won't have plagues upon them and will not have been able to heal in any way. The one starting pip idea is a complete failure that does not resolve the problem but actually makes things worse than they currently are in 4v4 pvp. Starting the side that goes first with a one pip reduction while keeping team two with their regular starting pips is something I have suggested in the past that was only met with great hostility towards me with cries of how unfair it would be to team one who has every advantage.


Seasnake, your issue was that storm can kill you on the first round, without being able to shield or do anything in return...

Going back to 1 pip, does not even have to be a power pip, how does that make storm too overpowered? lol they can't use wildbolt or insane bolt right off the bat... 80 damage + 250 gargantuan = 330 + 85% = 611

Now, with resistance of 35%, damage would be 397...

Now, factor in all your IF's, If Storm has 85% power boost rating, if All storm hit Critical, If you fail every block, then damage might be...

794 x 4 =3176 Yes, It could still kill most players, of course the chances are oh, I dunno, like being hit by insane bolt successfully 1000 times in a row without killing yourself... Making it to where you can understand, since you are not open to anything, but your own idea...

So, If they can't kill you, you can shield, use auras and gives you more time, how can you be against it? Think of it like this, IF storm did cast tempest, it did it's 397 Damage and your pet casted spritely, you would be healed almost completely first round and they would have lost a pip...



A 4v4 storm team on one initial starting pip still kills the other side on turn one cause they gargantuan their tempests and likely even get a critical hit or two to get through. With a lack of pips the side going second would be unable to cast 40% damage reduction plagues or heal with unicorn or get up anything in terms of stronger defenses or do anything in terms of stronger heals. If an all tempesting first turn team does not kill on the first turn, they are most likely going to on the second as the team going second has already taken large damage and has a lack of pips to work with. That is why I am so against this idea, it does nothing to solve the one sided side who goes first problems. It heavily favors storm players at the expense of players who play schools such as life and death. I am very well aware of your stance on playing storm and your idea looks very favorable for storm players over those who aren't, and I say that being amongst one of the most outspoken storm players in the game. Essentially your idea says you want to maintain all the advantages of going first while eliminating all the defenses of going last and if first turn killing is the problem you are willing to maybe not kill as easily on the first turn as long as the side going last can't properly respond to your lesser damage so you can mass defeat them on the second without problem. I see nothing changing for the better under reduced starting pips as the same problems are still there while new ones involving the second side being able to do very little without pips even if somehow they manage to survive the first turn onslaught are created.


So, I take it you have used insane bolt 1000 times now and not once killed yourself?

Because for Storm to kill an entire team with 1 pip, Like I said, they would all have to have 85% damage boosts, all have to use treasure Gargantuan, all have to Critical their hit, all critical blocks must fail!

Also, Life, Balance, Ice, & Death would all still live through this attack, IF all that was to occur... Not likely that it ever would...

So, honestly, come up with real scenarios Seasnake, because your ideas just don't cut it... And to prove it, your scenario states this...

If the full storm team goes second! They get to shield first, making sure that they live if all of team 1 attacks... And they all get to tempest in the same round, meaning they still get to kill the entire team on first round... Because they will have full pips with full bonuses...

I have another idea if you don't like the PiP idea, but I will post them in PvP!

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
Honestly the world would be a better place if only a maximum of two wizards of the same school were allowed on team ranked PvP.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
I hate the pip idea for all the reasons I stated even if you can't yourself understand what I took great pains to spell out as simply as possible.

Survivor
May 19, 2011
44
thats a good idea but a problem what i they have 1,000 heath and you have 732 and there all freinds and they have a plan they all put a 25/20+ on you then next round you defeated

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
laurawatersong wrote:
Honestly the world would be a better place if only a maximum of two wizards of the same school were allowed on team ranked PvP.


This is a good idea

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
smh0407 wrote:
thats a good idea but a problem what i they have 1,000 heath and you have 732 and there all freinds and they have a plan they all put a 25/20+ on you then next round you defeated


obviously, if you go in with lesser equipment quality than your opposition has then you will find yourself at a disadvantage but that is more your fault than theirs as the best equipment is typically non-crown equipment with the exception of perhaps low to mid level wands

Survivor
Dec 13, 2008
8
Hey!

This is a controversial thread and idea,

but I would have to say that seeing something like that happening, wouldn't really fair.

You have to have a strategy when your going first, and or second.

Squire
Dec 21, 2008
563
2