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One step closer to eliminating card-stealers

1
AuthorMessage
Explorer
Feb 26, 2009
89
A little while earlier today, I was in the shopping district and someone was offering a mount for some cards. I got an idea, walked up to him, then offered my cards. (No, I am NOT a beggar.) He said ok, but before I gave him my cards, I told him. "Wait, I am only going to give you ONE card, then you give me the mount, and I will give you the rest." He said fine, I gave him a triton, then he removed me and ported away. You may be thinking. "Way to go NOOB, you got your card stolen." But think about it, I only lost one, instead of losing most or ALL of my cards. :-) I still think there should be an auto report for Beggars and people who do this stuff, but because of that, the theif who took my card didnt get what he wanted. I also gave him a card that was totally useless to him, seeing that because of his level, he would be DEAD by the time he had enough pips to use it

Fiona Starcatcher.
Grandmaster Necromancer.

Survivor
May 16, 2009
19
very nice, very nice indeed.

I hope others see this and pass on the strategy

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1706
We worry about the children hearing bad language, but not for others stealing from them. I know those who steal from others, or take advantage of the innocence of the younger players, but it still doesn't feel right we allow this to go on. Still not sure how we as players can do much beyond what you suggest though.

Explorer
Mar 03, 2009
72
The way to stop card scammers is not to give them ANY cards, period. By giving them even ONE card, they have accomplished what they set out to do. Simply because you only gave them one card does not change the fact that he left with a card, while you ended up with one card less. All you did was reinforce his bad behaviour.

Cat

Survivor
Mar 26, 2009
4
I believe this is not smart for these people who trick Beggars (I'm not saying I'm supporting begging) because once they talk, their name is saved on the witness' text box and can still be reported even if they port away. Thank you Wizard101 for that option!

Explorer
Mar 03, 2009
72
Re-reading my post, I didn't mean to sound so condescending. I apologize for that. I understand and greatly appreciate your motives behind your actions, as I believe this type of behaviour needs to be stopped.

On one hand, the person trading the cards usually is trying to cheat by getting codes basically for free. On the other hand, it could be some young kid, new to the game, who doesn't realize that what they are doing is wrong. In either case, BOTH actions are wrong and steps should be taken to stop this. Allow these situations to be reported, and chastise BOTH parties. The person who is stealing the cards absolutely knows that what they are doing is wrong, so give them a stern warning or some other form of punishment. For the one who is trading the cards in the hopes of getting a code, explain why it is wrong, and give them a warning that the next time will result in punishment. If KingsIsle wants to make this a kid friendly place, I would think combating "crime" would be something they would take seriously. Please allow these situations to be reported, and please take steps to make sure the perpetrators are dealt with accordingly.

Cat

Defender
Jan 03, 2009
140
CatSydsMom wrote:
The way to stop card scammers is not to give them ANY cards, period. By giving them even ONE card, they have accomplished what they set out to do. Simply because you only gave them one card does not change the fact that he left with a card, while you ended up with one card less. All you did was reinforce his bad behaviour.

Cat


Well, yes but he basically tricked the scammer into thinking he won but really the scamed won. Now scammers will get less and the stakes of being scammed will be lower since you lose less and scammers gain less.

Defender
Sep 28, 2008
104
An even better idea is to have the incident reportable and the person stealing the cards reverted to menu chat. That way no one else can get "scammed" by him and we do not have to be the ones that have to turn everything off so that we can not "see" the incident, "hear" the begging or be subjected to the criticism of telling the people being scammed that they "will" get the mounts promised and that "we" don't know what we are talking about. I find it odd that KI can jump on a bug and call it exploitation yet lets this exploitation continue because they refuse to address the issue.

Survivor
Dec 17, 2009
8
The same happened to me today. We were approached twice by a "friend" to trade a mount to us for some cards. It didn't seem inappropriate; offering value for value. But he took the cards and teleported away and removed us from his list.

I reported him and am curious to see what they say about this. If we are told that the trade we were going to make is inappropriate, then we know better for the future. But something should be done to the other party who "stole" something for nothing.

Survivor
Jan 12, 2010
44
I thought both people have to agree to the exchange?

I found one of those people once, I offered him some of my mediocre cards that I had duplicates of, and he got disgusted with me and terminated the trade!

Survivor
Dec 17, 2009
8
No, you can't trade these at the same time. You have to trade treasure cards for nothing and he has to gift you the crown item. They are two separate and distinct trades.

As the powers that be answered, it's a buyer beware circumstance. They don't want to prohibit these kind of trades for various reasons so you need to know and trust the other person. Lesson learned.

I wish we were able to create a list of these people to post somewhere to warn others. But I can see the dangers in that as well and can't imagine it ever happening

Defender
May 29, 2009
196

You do realize there this "value for value" trade is pretty much impossible when it comes to cards for mounts, right? Treasure cards can be created (using keen eyes, tough, etc.) or purchased from the library/bazaar for in-game gold.

You can buy a mount for yourself with gold, but the *ONLY* want to give a mount to someone else is to use crowns (that's real money). That essentially means you're trading in-game gold for crowns. Fake money for real money. I don't think there's really any kind of equitable trade that can happen there.

The trade that these people are trying to make is inappropriate because there is no in-game mechanism for this type of trading. The only trading that is really allowed is cards for cards. That's the only option you see on the trading screen. Anything else is left up to whether you trust that person to hold up their end of the bargain or not.



WorldB wrote:
The same happened to me today. We were approached twice by a "friend" to trade a mount to us for some cards. It didn't seem inappropriate; offering value for value. But he took the cards and teleported away and removed us from his list.

I reported him and am curious to see what they say about this. If we are told that the trade we were going to make is inappropriate, then we know better for the future. But something should be done to the other party who "stole" something for nothing.

Defender
Jan 25, 2010
177
Fiona, you got scammed of your own free will on that one. You knew it was coming, saw it coming, knew it was happening and gave away your card. Lol.

Plus, how does the one that took your card know that you would have coughed up the balance of the cards once you were gifted the mount? Lol.

A lot of kids are desperate for a mount, do not have real world money and have great difficulty getting in game coins so they go around asking. That is no different in real life with things that they want so there's nothing can be done about that but their victimization can be easily prevented.

They are kids, you protect them from themselves, parents do this constantly as their kids grow, so should a video game that leaves them wide open to be ripped off protect them.

An added trading mechanism could stop this kind of fraud.

Firstly you can help because when you see someone offering mounts for cards all you have to say in public is. "Mounts can't be trade for cards." then leave the scene and go about your business.

Update the trade mechanism:

Let's say player #1 is offering a mount in exchange for cards (a patented lie but kids aren't into recognizing that).

Player #2 wants a mount and has some good treasure cards.

Player #1 says "I'll gift you a mount if you give me 3 Harvest Lord's, 3 Centaur's and 3 Ninja Pigs."

Player #2 says, "OK."

The trade window opens.

Added to the current function is/are options for Player #2 to select what they are expecting from Player #1.

Player #2 selects the type of mount that they were promised, let's say Player #1 promised to gift a Horned Sweeper:

If Player #1 does not select to gift said Horned Sweeper to that person then the trade does not go through. Even if Player #2 has cards up for trade the trade still won't work because Player #1 never verified the Horned Sweeper that they promised.

If Player #2 selected to offer the 3 Harvest Lord's, 3 Centaur's and 3 Ninja Pigs and Player #1 selected to gift the Horned Sweeper, then the trade goes through and the gifted item is processed.

THIS STOPS PEOPLE GETTING RIPPED OFF FOR CARDS WHEN THEY ARE BEING OFFERED SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE TRADED ANYWAY.

It just needs to be coded into the game that way the false promises of mounts become void.

Defender
Jan 25, 2010
177
smurfcam159 wrote:
very nice, very nice indeed.

I hope others see this and pass on the strategy


Pass on the strategy?

Don't you mean knowingly give free cards to hustlers like Fiona did? Lol.

Survivor
Oct 30, 2008
15
I saw that EXACT same guy, while getting my fire dragon spell.

Delver
Aug 14, 2009
251
Once i wanted to trade my cards for a mount, but then the guy told me he was trying to trick someone, then I put cap lock on and told everyone that he was trying to trick them, then he ported away. Whenever someone asked mount for cards, here is what I do:



I alway tell them to show me the mount first, thats how I know if they are tricking, then they will say, i can't it wont let me, right there you definitly know they will trick you. People try that out, it might help you.

Geographer
Jul 04, 2009
939
Firefrog16 wrote:
Once i wanted to trade my cards for a mount, but then the guy told me he was trying to trick someone, then I put cap lock on and told everyone that he was trying to trick them, then he ported away. Whenever someone asked mount for cards, here is what I do:



I alway tell them to show me the mount first, thats how I know if they are tricking, then they will say, i can't it wont let me, right there you definitly know they will trick you. People try that out, it might help you.


Whether he has a mount or not doesn't prove anything because you cannot gift an item already in your possession!

You can only gift something during a crowns purchase, not afterwards.

Defender
May 08, 2009
167
WorldB wrote:
The same happened to me today. We were approached twice by a "friend" to trade a mount to us for some cards. It didn't seem inappropriate; offering value for value. But he took the cards and teleported away and removed us from his list.

I reported him and am curious to see what they say about this. If we are told that the trade we were going to make is inappropriate, then we know better for the future. But something should be done to the other party who "stole" something for nothing.


KI dosen't consider it scamming because both parties agreed to the trade, making it "legal".I still think we should be able to report them for scamming.

Be sure not to report it again, sometimes they can hit you back for "false-reporting".

Survivor
Mar 05, 2009
4
If you have some patience and find this as humorous as I do, try this method.


Tell them you want the code, mount, etc, and you have some great high end cards you can't use.
Tell them to just wait one second and you'll sort through the cards and find them.
Then open up a trade window and sit there for as long as you can keep the window open.
"I'm still looking, it takes so long because of all the hundreds of low level cards I have"
"please bear with me"
etc...
stall stall stall .... waste their time.

If they hit five people like this in a day, a few days in a row, they'd possibly get so fed up they'd quit doing it for a while.

Survivor
Dec 13, 2008
11
Darkhole54321 wrote:
WorldB wrote:
The same happened to me today. We were approached twice by a "friend" to trade a mount to us for some cards. It didn't seem inappropriate; offering value for value. But he took the cards and teleported away and removed us from his list.

I reported him and am curious to see what they say about this. If we are told that the trade we were going to make is inappropriate, then we know better for the future. But something should be done to the other party who "stole" something for nothing.


KI dosen't consider it scamming because both parties agreed to the trade, making it "legal".I still think we should be able to report them for scamming.

Be sure not to report it again, sometimes they can hit you back for "false-reporting".


See, to me, this isn't exactly fair. I perfectly understand where KI is coming from, but scamming should still be an acceptable reason to report someone. At least half of the people I know on W101 dont even know there is the monthly newsletter. Also, the less experienced players wouldn't know about it either. Therefore, they will thing that the scammer will give them the _________ for their treasures cards. I used to go around and trade scammers 1 treasure card and then quickly report them before they could log off. I did this only for the good of the community because I have a ton of treasures cards and a few mounts and some gold. So as you can see, people who do what I do should not be "illegal," but a good deed.

Historian
May 15, 2009
674
lol i love watching these unfold
this is what my friend has done i will place first names only


Bradley: mounts for cards! gifting a mount for cards!
Wolf:: hey dude watch this ( told me in pm)
Me: alright ( said back to him in PM)
Bradley Mounts for cards, gifting a mount for cards
Wolf: sure man i got a couple storm lords i will trade ya * friends and opens chat*
Bradley: so just trade me them and i will gift you
Wolf: nah i just wanted to mess with you
Bradley you day um bench * ports away*
wolf: * reports*
me: dude! lol you made him so mad


( this really did happen and these are exact words)
another day i found the EXACT same guy trying to scam again so i went up to him

Me: dude didn't my friend already teach you to stop trying to scam?
Bradley: you are a bench for being that dude friend * ports away*
me: * reports him*
me: sure i am

i never saw this one again but starting tomorrow i am gonna start an active anti scam league where we halt scams in progreess and try to prevent ones

Explorer
Feb 26, 2009
89
Thechaosmagician wrote:
lol i love watching these unfold
this is what my friend has done i will place first names only


Bradley: mounts for cards! gifting a mount for cards!
Wolf:: hey dude watch this ( told me in pm)
Me: alright ( said back to him in PM)
Bradley Mounts for cards, gifting a mount for cards
Wolf: sure man i got a couple storm lords i will trade ya * friends and opens chat*
Bradley: so just trade me them and i will gift you
Wolf: nah i just wanted to mess with you
Bradley you day um bench * ports away*
wolf: * reports*
me: dude! lol you made him so mad


( this really did happen and these are exact words)
another day i found the EXACT same guy trying to scam again so i went up to him

Me: dude didn't my friend already teach you to stop trying to scam?
Bradley: you are a bench for being that dude friend * ports away*
me: * reports him*
me: sure i am

i never saw this one again but starting tomorrow i am gonna start an active anti scam league where we halt scams in progreess and try to prevent ones


Now THATS a good idea XD I so have to do that XD Quick! To w101!

Explorer
May 22, 2009
94
jaronuts wrote:
Fiona, you got scammed of your own free will on that one. You knew it was coming, saw it coming, knew it was happening and gave away your card. Lol.

Plus, how does the one that took your card know that you would have coughed up the balance of the cards once you were gifted the mount? Lol.

A lot of kids are desperate for a mount, do not have real world money and have great difficulty getting in game coins so they go around asking. That is no different in real life with things that they want so there's nothing can be done about that but their victimization can be easily prevented.

They are kids, you protect them from themselves, parents do this constantly as their kids grow, so should a video game that leaves them wide open to be ripped off protect them.

An added trading mechanism could stop this kind of fraud.

Firstly you can help because when you see someone offering mounts for cards all you have to say in public is. "Mounts can't be trade for cards." then leave the scene and go about your business.

Update the trade mechanism:

Let's say player #1 is offering a mount in exchange for cards (a patented lie but kids aren't into recognizing that).

Player #2 wants a mount and has some good treasure cards.

Player #1 says "I'll gift you a mount if you give me 3 Harvest Lord's, 3 Centaur's and 3 Ninja Pigs."

Player #2 says, "OK."

The trade window opens.

Added to the current function is/are options for Player #2 to select what they are expecting from Player #1.

Player #2 selects the type of mount that they were promised, let's say Player #1 promised to gift a Horned Sweeper:

If Player #1 does not select to gift said Horned Sweeper to that person then the trade does not go through. Even if Player #2 has cards up for trade the trade still won't work because Player #1 never verified the Horned Sweeper that they promised.

If Player #2 selected to offer the 3 Harvest Lord's, 3 Centaur's and 3 Ninja Pigs and Player #1 selected to gift the Horned Sweeper, then the trade goes through and the gifted item is processed.

THIS STOPS PEOPLE GETTING RIPPED OFF FOR CARDS WHEN THEY ARE BEING OFFERED SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE TRADED ANYWAY.

It just needs to be coded into the game that way the false promises of mounts become void.


Jaronuts, this is a bit off topic, but mostly on. The reason items are not tradable (which on man occasions I would like) is because of this problem. Kids would get tricked into spending money for the item trade one way or another, and then that would mean that the third-party vendor would have access to their parents' credit card. Then, uh-oh! Lives ruined! That is why it is not happening, some people just don't have enough common sense. However, if asking for money was a reportable offense, then maybe! But, still problems. So, no trading items! However, with gifting in play, item trading may not be far off! But, I am not an MMO speacilist about money because I know to avoid people asking for money, so who knows! I'll leave this in the air!

Geographer
Jul 04, 2009
939
What jaronuts has done, yellow867, was link the gifting with the trading. Gifting can only be done with a new purchase of an item with crowns. If you don't have the crowns for the item, then the trade does not happen. If you do have enough crowns, and agreed to the trade, then the crowns are removed from your account and the item is given to the other player.

There is no credit card involved, and I have no idea why you would think there would be, or that some unknown third party would have access to the credit card info.

Keep this in mind ... the ability to gift is a parental control feature ... and you cannot enable it within game.

Defender
Nov 25, 2009
160
I don't know if someone already said this bacause I didn't read everything but here's an idea....

Give battle made cards.

Why?

They want to scam you out of cards usually to sell them.

Battle made cards can't be sold. LOL!

And it's cheap to make them.

But the best plan (and this has been said) is to not give any.

1