Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Changes to Wild Bolt Spell - a Civilized Chat

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

Honestly though, all kidding aside. Changes were made to wildbolt because of the accuracy enhancements in celestia (And Largely due to the complainers in PVP). Yet, people have gone from training accuracy boosts, to damage boost, to get gargantuan to add 250 damage to the spell. Yes, this does work and will give you 260, 350, or 1250 damage for 2 pips. Yet, if Unstoppable +30% accuracy, and the +10% accuracy over 4 rounds were not introduced, then storm would not be at that high of an accuracy with wildbolt. 10 initial + 20 sniper + 30 gear = 60% + 10 pet = 70 at best


Wait, aren't you the guy I had a long discussion with earlier in this thread that talked about ice wizards reported to have 61% resist to all? If so, why do you keep going to smaller gear numbers for storm accuracy while arguing the highest numbers seen for other classes (I still haven't seen an ice over 40%)? while I haven't been watching every storm I see lately (though i have been monitoring every ice I find since our conversation), it was not uncommon in test to see storm with gear accuracy of 60% (though admittedly, that could have included a pet). Even so, that still means gear + sniper + initial (60 + 20 + 10) is 90% to deal 1000 damage for 2 pips. If you aren't the same guy, then I apologize, but as someone pointed out earlier:

The expected damage per pip for a 70% chance to deal 1000 damage at 2 pips is 350. Triton at 100% accuracy is only 139.167 and that is the highest figure out of Thunder Snake, Lightning Bats, Storm Shark, Kraken, Stormzilla, and Triton. Even by storm standards, it was clearly broken before Celestia hit the map. Celestia just made it glaringly clear how broken it was. I'm not saying I think it is now "fixed" because I don't. I think its equally broken in a different way. I'm just saying... how can you justify that as "balanced" simply because storm is "known for big damage quickly".

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
maxitola2009 wrote:
cmullins wrote:
p.s. did you notice the only people complaining are storm wizards?

Umm... that's because we're the only wizards that this change affects in a negative way.

If we're talking about being fair and balanced I say take one useful spell from every school and "fix" it like Bolt was "fixed".

Old Bolt
New Bolt :(


Yeah! Lets fix all the other schools! Here are some suggestions.
Balance: Make judgement do 10 per pip
Ice: Make their clothes not be able to give any resist and make ice armor protect with 10 per pip.
Fire: Reverse the damage on immolate and make efreet put the weakness on you.
Life: Kiss forest lord good bye
Death: To ____ with beguile and make crow do 150
Myth: Make medusa not stun and make earthquake remove every charm/ ward on the battlefield.



I understand you're upset about bolt. I don't think they "fixed" it either. But this post isn't even remotely in line with the wild bolt change. You still have 7 other single hit spells dealing substantially bigger damage than any other class spell at the same rank.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

Obviously you are not storm. Storm does have other spells that does 1000 damage, it's called triton.


Base Triton does a maximum of 875, not 1000.

darthjt wrote:
Secondly, our school does not have a Damage over time spell, so we need to be able to hit hard and make another finishing attack if our first one fails.


Every other school has to compensate for something. You have options on this that don't require bolt. Anything above a total accuracy of 30% for a cast of the old wild bolt put it into an expected damage per pip range far and away higher than any other storm spell. As you know, storm's expected damage per pip range is already higher than any other class in the game. Getting away from that argument and only focusing on PvE (since I'm sick of PvP arguments at this point), it is fair to say that wild bolt is a one hit kill spell for the clear majority of enemies.

In comparison to every other class in the game, it becomes a tactically unfair advantage to have a unique class spell in your arsenal that can have even a 30% chance to eliminate one entire enemy on your first cast in combat, let alone the 50% or 70% chance that was common even before Celestia. That is not an example of a tactical "equalizer" spell for storm as you have tried to cast it.

darthjt wrote:
Wild Bolt, is now a waste of PiPs, unlike all the other schools.


What does that even mean? Every school has nearly useless spells. Have you seen taunt? How about doom and gloom?

Delver
Sep 26, 2009
229
:? I give up ^^, i am gonna stop arguing. It never gets anyone anywhere. I am just gonna play w101 and accept what happens.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
gtarhannon wrote:
darthjt wrote:

Obviously you are not storm. Storm does have other spells that does 1000 damage, it's called triton.


Base Triton does a maximum of 875, not 1000.

Yes Base Triton does 875, but now that celestia is here, with gargantuan, base is now 1100, thank you very much. You think you are so smart, but you are really showing your lack of intelligence.

darthjt wrote:
Secondly, our school does not have a Damage over time spell, so we need to be able to hit hard and make another finishing attack if our first one fails.


Every other school has to compensate for something. You have options on this that don't require bolt. Anything above a total accuracy of 30% for a cast of the old wild bolt put it into an expected damage per pip range far and away higher than any other storm spell. As you know, storm's expected damage per pip range is already higher than any other class in the game. Getting away from that argument and only focusing on PvE (since I'm sick of PvP arguments at this point), it is fair to say that wild bolt is a one hit kill spell for the clear majority of enemies.

Yes, Every school has to compensate for something, and ours was power, for health. You keep doing the math, but your own figures are off, are you sure you went to school?

In comparison to every other class in the game, it becomes a tactically unfair advantage to have a unique class spell in your arsenal that can have even a 30% chance to eliminate one entire enemy on your first cast in combat, let alone the 50% or 70% chance that was common even before Celestia. That is not an example of a tactical "equalizer" spell for storm as you have tried to cast it.

Sorry, but I was under the impression that only storm has 2000 health, forgive me. No wait, once again, you are showing your lack of intelligence, by being wrong once again. Storm is the only one with health this low. So, it is not possible, for storm, even with a critical hit, to kill anyone, right off the bat. And, figure out the percentages, oh wait, given your history, those will be way off again, but storm rarely goes first. Therefore, everyone has a chance to shield before storm can even get off an attack.

darthjt wrote:
Wild Bolt, is now a waste of PiPs, unlike all the other schools.


What does that even mean? Every school has nearly useless spells. Have you seen taunt? How about doom and gloom?


lol what does that even mean, figures you would say that. Now taunt, pacify, etc, all schools have them, but they are not attack spells, they are intended to attract or pacify an enemy in PvE.

As far as Doom and Gloom, you call that a waste? You are obviously not death either, cause while death heals with attacks, everyone else has to heal with life spells. Do your homework before you comment on something you obviously know nothing about.


Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
gtarhannon wrote:
darthjt wrote:

Honestly though, all kidding aside. Changes were made to wildbolt because of the accuracy enhancements in celestia (And Largely due to the complainers in PVP). Yet, people have gone from training accuracy boosts, to damage boost, to get gargantuan to add 250 damage to the spell. Yes, this does work and will give you 260, 350, or 1250 damage for 2 pips. Yet, if Unstoppable +30% accuracy, and the +10% accuracy over 4 rounds were not introduced, then storm would not be at that high of an accuracy with wildbolt. 10 initial + 20 sniper + 30 gear = 60% + 10 pet = 70 at best


Wait, aren't you the guy I had a long discussion with earlier in this thread that talked about ice wizards reported to have 61% resist to all? If so, why do you keep going to smaller gear numbers for storm accuracy while arguing the highest numbers seen for other classes (I still haven't seen an ice over 40%)? while I haven't been watching every storm I see lately (though i have been monitoring every ice I find since our conversation), it was not uncommon in test to see storm with gear accuracy of 60% (though admittedly, that could have included a pet). Even so, that still means gear + sniper + initial (60 + 20 + 10) is 90% to deal 1000 damage for 2 pips. If you aren't the same guy, then I apologize, but as someone pointed out earlier:

Yes, I am the same guy. And I have a friend that is Ice that has his Resist all up to, 56%. I admit, this does include help from pet, but to me, that is still outrageous. Now, I have not been paying that close attention to all the gear, most my storm has in accuracy boosts is 30%, with my pet. +20 Sniper, +10 base, is 60. yes, there is aura spells and the 30 accuracy treasure, plus the storm accuracy spell. I understand that things for accuracy went way out of control. But, that does not mean, take a spell, that was used for strategic chances and turn them into a turn/pip waster.

I have no idea, but lets say, for now on, any spell you cast, if it fizzles, you lose your pips. That is exactly the point here. This is what all the complaints are about. Can I make it any more clear than that?

The expected damage per pip for a 70% chance to deal 1000 damage at 2 pips is 350. Triton at 100% accuracy is only 139.167 and that is the highest figure out of Thunder Snake, Lightning Bats, Storm Shark, Kraken, Stormzilla, and Triton. Even by storm standards, it was clearly broken before Celestia hit the map. Celestia just made it glaringly clear how broken it was. I'm not saying I think it is now "fixed" because I don't. I think its equally broken in a different way. I'm just saying... how can you justify that as "balanced" simply because storm is "known for big damage quickly".


I know the damage storm can do and I understand, that bolt was never intended to have a high success rate. Like I said before then, to make this fair to all schools then, any and all fizzles, should now result in loss of PIPS.

Survivor
May 05, 2009
40
gtarhannon wrote:

I understand you're upset about bolt. I don't think they "fixed" it either. But this post isn't even remotely in line with the wild bolt change. You still have 7 other single hit spells dealing substantially bigger damage than any other class spell at the same rank.


You're absolutely correct!

There are still many very good spells left for a Storm Wiz to use.

However...
I think the best way to sum up my thoughts would be this analogy:
You have dozens of teeth. We're gonna take out one of the front ones. You'll never miss it. You still have more you can use that are just as good. And we know you said "don't take our 'tooth' " but we're gonna do it anyway.

Old Bolt
New Bolt

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

Yes Base Triton does 875, but now that celestia is here, with gargantuan, base is now 1100, thank you very much. You think you are so smart, but you are really showing your lack of intelligence.


I'm sorry you're so angry about this, but what you are showing once again is your constant apples to oranges comparisons. You say a lot of misleading things and make extreme comparisons to exacerbate the issue. If you want a real fix for wild bolt, you need to calm down and demonstrate the problem instead of providing anecdotal evidence and assumed spell combinations.

darthjt wrote:

Yes, Every school has to compensate for something, and ours was power, for health. You keep doing the math, but your own figures are off, are you sure you went to school?


If my math and the rather clear math demonstrated by others in this thread is wrong, please publish it. Attempting to insult me isn't going to help your case.

darthjt wrote:
Sorry, but I was under the impression that only storm has 2000 health, forgive me. No wait, once again, you are showing your lack of intelligence, by being wrong once again. Storm is the only one with health this low. So, it is not possible, for storm, even with a critical hit, to kill anyone, right off the bat.


FYI. At best I would be demonstrating ignorance (assuming that you choose to ignore the comment I made about putting PvP aside). There is nothing about my post betraying a lack of intelligence. As for your math, with a critical hit... Let's just see. Legendary Diviner: 60% damage boost with gear, critical hit, that's a multiplier of 1.60 x 2.00 which would be 3.20. 1000 x 3.2 is 3200. 3200 on your first cast seems to me like it could kill an awful lot of enemies right off the bat. In addition, since I was discussing PvE and not PvP, 1000 damage right off the starting line kills most street enemies or boss minions from WC right up into DS. Or am I showing a "lack of intelligence" about that too?

darthjt wrote:
And, figure out the percentages, oh wait, given your history, those will be way off again, but storm rarely goes first. Therefore, everyone has a chance to shield before storm can even get off an attack.


Look at what you said here? The game discriminates against storm being the first one to go? You seriously believe that? If you do, it might explain why you think my math is wrong.

darthjt wrote:
lol what does that even mean, figures you would say that. Now taunt, pacify, etc, all schools have them, but they are not attack spells, they are intended to attract or pacify an enemy in PvE.


I made the comment because I honestly didn't understand what you were driving at. I get it now. Let me tell you what I was considering. In the entirety of Storm's spells, with the exception of soothe, every one has a useful tactical or damage purpose whether soloing, participating in group play, or fighting in PvP. The same cannot be said of at least three (possibly more) other classes after adjusting for their class version of soothe.

darthjt wrote:
As far as Doom and Gloom, you call that a waste? You are obviously not death either, cause while death heals with attacks, everyone else has to heal with life spells. Do your homework before you comment on something you obviously know nothing about.


Doom and Gloom is a niche spell which would be why I lumped it into the "nearly useless" category. Again, before you lecture me on my comments, perhaps you should read all of them, such as where I said I was talking about PvE. How often is reducing healing useful for fighting street mobs exactly?

In summary, I'm sorry you're so overly angry about this, but I would like to see the new wild bolt fixed as well and I think that keeping things in perspective as they apply to the ENTIRE game is the best way to do that. That, and frankly, I love to argue. If you think that the numbers I use or the math I spell out for my assertions is in error, then prove it. I have no problem being proved wrong or someone debating my opinions. This is supposed to be a "civilized" chat after all. However, when I see you acting as if the change to wild bolt somehow completely ruins the storm class or somehow elevates every other class to something far beyond a more level playing field, I think you're flatly wrong and I'm probably going to call you on it.

Conversely, if you think I'm ignorant, then educate me. Insulting me isn't going to sway me because I barely care what my wife thinks of me, and I consider her opinion among my most valued. I need facts, figures, compelling arguments, and persuasive demonstrations rich in reference material so that I can verify your assertions and results. If you want KI to change their minds about this spell, then persuade them. Don't just attack everyone who disagrees.

They are in the business of making money. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, wild bolt has been a big problem for a long time. Other classes may not be as vocal as folks in this thread have been, but I guarantee you that they have received enough complaints from others to make them feel that their bottom line was threatened more by not changing this spell than by leaving it alone. Otherwise, they clearly wouldn't have touched it. It is obviously a Storm fan favorite.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

Yes, I am the same guy. And I have a friend that is Ice that has his Resist all up to, 56%. I admit, this does include help from pet, but to me, that is still outrageous. Now, I have not been paying that close attention to all the gear, most my storm has in accuracy boosts is 30%, with my pet. +20 Sniper, +10 base, is 60. yes, there is aura spells and the 30 accuracy treasure, plus the storm accuracy spell. I understand that things for accuracy went way out of control. But, that does not mean, take a spell, that was used for strategic chances and turn them into a turn/pip waster.


See, this is what I like to see. You've calmed down a bit from the last post you wrote me and are giving me useful information. I agree completely that 56% resist to all is ridiculous (though I am extraordinarily curious how he did it, cause the best I can find is 37%). In our previous discussion, I stated that I think gear resist all should be capped and so should gear accuracy. I think that those limits is what KI should be having an open debate about (and actively pursuing) to keep these kinds of exploits from periodically cropping up in the game.

darthjt wrote:
I have no idea, but lets say, for now on, any spell you cast, if it fizzles, you lose your pips. That is exactly the point here. This is what all the complaints are about. Can I make it any more clear than that?


Read my other posts because I spell out quite clearly that they have ruined the tactical value of wild bolt.

darthjt wrote:
I know the damage storm can do and I understand, that bolt was never intended to have a high success rate. Like I said before then, to make this fair to all schools then, any and all fizzles, should now result in loss of PIPS.


I disagree. I don't think that makes it "fair", I think that merely introduces more issues. If that was introduced, how exactly is storm supposed to make it through the early stages of the game? I think what would be fair is for KI to introduce caps on several key attributes (perhaps all attributes) to keep any class from introducing a combination of pets and gear that allow them to turn a class strength into a class "super power".

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
cmullins wrote:

However...
I think the best way to sum up my thoughts would be this analogy:
You have dozens of teeth. We're gonna take out one of the front ones. You'll never miss it. You still have more you can use that are just as good. And we know you said "don't take our 'tooth' " but we're gonna do it anyway.

Old Bolt
New Bolt


That is a great analogy. I assume you are referring to KI's ill-advised poll regarding whether or not people liked the spell. I agree that they shouldn't have done that and then made the change anyway when the poll showed clearly that those who responded did not favor the spell. It is important to remember, however, that the poll only showed those who responded. If KI had not previously received enough complaints to make them feel that their bottom line was threatened, they wouldn't have wasted the resources to change the spell in the first place and risk angering a large number of passionate storm players.

Let me be clear. I'm not storm and have no intention of ever being storm. Personality-wise, I have little interest in storm because it is the only one that truly doesn't suit me in any way. Regardless, I think the current version is tactically ruined for storm and I would like them to actually fix it. I am more than happy to try and team with you and other storm in convincing KI to come up with a better solution. However, I think that the best way to do that is to start by acknowledging that both the old and new versions are broken in different ways.

I believe that the best way to fix bolt and many other class exploits (both present and future), is to introduce gear caps on at least accuracy and resist. Combine that with the original version of bolt but with only one modification. If you remove the ability to apply enchantment cards to it, then I think you've got a fair and equitable fix.

To describe my "fix" a different way, I see it like this: Your maximum aggregate accuracy boost for gear would be 30% for any class of magic. Wildbolt would be 10% for 1000 damage but enchantment cards (damage and accuracy) couldn't be applied to it. That would make your maximum accuracy before Celestia 40% (base plus gear). You would still be able to able to use any accuracy spell which isn't an enchantment, such as precision, star spells, or lightning strike. This would preserve the spirit of the spell, the usefulness of several different class tactical spells, and the tactical value of the spell itself.

I would love to hear opinions on this.

Survivor
Jun 06, 2009
43
Even though I think storm and wild bolt is cheap, I think this new "improved" wild bolt is unfair to storm. Basiclly their storm spells are 40 and 50 percent so they fizzle alot! Wouldn't they be sad if it was malistaire and they casted it what only 10 or 100 damage!!!!! O: Still when I was in Celestia I was happy when a boss used bolt and it only did 11 damage on me! :-D

Thanks, and hello proffesor Greyrose thanks for a great year of ice!

Nathan Bluesinger Level 60 Legendary Thaumaturge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Survivor
Nov 17, 2009
1
my main person is storm and mith as second class. i didn't mind the wild bolt before. i could build up pips while fizzing and not waist a ward. but also have a small chance at a powerful hit. this 10, 100, or 1000 piont hit has renderd the wild bolt useless to me.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
gtarhannon wrote:
darthjt wrote:

Yes, I am the same guy. And I have a friend that is Ice that has his Resist all up to, 56%. I admit, this does include help from pet, but to me, that is still outrageous. Now, I have not been paying that close attention to all the gear, most my storm has in accuracy boosts is 30%, with my pet. +20 Sniper, +10 base, is 60. yes, there is aura spells and the 30 accuracy treasure, plus the storm accuracy spell. I understand that things for accuracy went way out of control. But, that does not mean, take a spell, that was used for strategic chances and turn them into a turn/pip waster.


See, this is what I like to see. You've calmed down a bit from the last post you wrote me and are giving me useful information. I agree completely that 56% resist to all is ridiculous (though I am extraordinarily curious how he did it, cause the best I can find is 37%). In our previous discussion, I stated that I think gear resist all should be capped and so should gear accuracy. I think that those limits is what KI should be having an open debate about (and actively pursuing) to keep these kinds of exploits from periodically cropping up in the game.

Ok, 37% is correct for just the gear, 11% resist on hat, 17% resist on robe, and 9% resist on boots. You could easily change the boots to a 10% resist with the new epic gear, but then you would lose the critical block, so go with the 37%. Now, add in 10% from pet for spell proof. Then, add in 10% from pet for spell defy and you get 57%. Add spritely to that pet, which he does have. LOL, he is one hard Ice wizard to kill.

darthjt wrote:
I have no idea, but lets say, for now on, any spell you cast, if it fizzles, you lose your pips. That is exactly the point here. This is what all the complaints are about. Can I make it any more clear than that?


Read my other posts because I spell out quite clearly that they have ruined the tactical value of wild bolt.

Yes, I read your other post, that was one of your most educated and reasoneable posts. You really should post more like that one.

darthjt wrote:
I know the damage storm can do and I understand, that bolt was never intended to have a high success rate. Like I said before then, to make this fair to all schools then, any and all fizzles, should now result in loss of PIPS.


I disagree. I don't think that makes it "fair", I think that merely introduces more issues. If that was introduced, how exactly is storm supposed to make it through the early stages of the game? I think what would be fair is for KI to introduce caps on several key attributes (perhaps all attributes) to keep any class from introducing a combination of pets and gear that allow them to turn a class strength into a class "super power".


Well, I was using this as an exaggeration, to prove my point. The "New" and useless wildbolt is a waste of pips. There is no value in this spell what so ever now.

But, what I dont agree with, is your attributes cap. People spend a lot of time and money, to make pets and to get them the talents that they want them to have. It is not easy to get a pet with pain giver, spell proof, spell defy and spritely. Now, you want to take away all their hard effort to make that pet?

Again, this is another reason, that this sudden change of wild bolt, infuriates a lot of storm players. We spent countless hours at the bazaar, waiting and looking for keen eyes (Enchanted) Sniper, and accuracy. We spent even more time and hours getting a pet that had storm shot. We did everything we could to get the best possible success rate at wildbolt. Some got it up to 50, 60, or even 70% accurate with all their boosts. Yes, it would still fizzle, but they worked very hard to get these talents.

Now, some, yes, used wildbolt and nothing else, not sure why, but ok. Others, when going against a boss, would try wildbolt against the minion, to make it 1v1 instead of 2v1, since storm has low health. If it fizzled, fine, wizards could then blade up and kill. It was a strategy.

PVE so far, rarely cast shields, except for balance. So, that is not so bad, but once again, we can no longer rely on wild bolt. So, can you use the same strategy against a boss in celestia? No! Why? Because when you hit you lose those pips.

BTW, Is all the storm accuracy and all the storm damage on the same gear? with the critical bonus? You can get all at same time? Cause, like I said, most I have seen for storm accuracy with critical stats is 29. You said it was up to 60.

Survivor
Jan 16, 2010
6
Shannoony wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Obviously you are not storm. Storm does have other spells that does 1000 damage, it's called triton. Secondly, our school does not have a Damage over time spell, so we need to be able to hit hard and make another finishing attack if our first one fails. This is where wild bolt came in at. See, storm, unlike all the other schools, has less than 2000 health. So, we need to be able to attack quickly and powerfully in order to kill and stay alive. Wild Bolt, is now a waste of PiPs, unlike all the other schools.

Secondly, for you to defend KI by saying they "Are" Listening? How can they be listening, if 62% voted, saying that they do not like the new wild bolt and yet, KI did change it? Players here and all over have complained about the new "Useless Bolt", yet, they said they are listening, but are not going to change bolt back. But they are listening? Listening to what exactly?


Obviously, I'm not storm. I know how to play one though, from my mom's wizard. Just sayin'. Yes, I know you do not have a DoT spell, save for Storm Hound, so I get that. But can't your other spells work just as well as Wild Bolt did? Plus, technically, wouldn't they be more reliable since they have higher percent of hitting?

And I'm defending KI because this is their game. They don't have to take the community's thoughts into consideration if they think their choice is right. Sure, they asked and a lot of people voted no, but they still have power to make their own choice. That's most likely what happened. They don't have to change it back if they don't want to/feel that they've made the right decision. But, believe it or not, they do take consideration to what we say. They can't implement everything we say, or do what we want them to. I think that we should just trust them to do what's right, since they have a lot more experience with running their game than any of us do.


just fyi there are other schools that dont have DoT spells. Myth doesent. see my earlier past.

Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
31
dwoodwell1 wrote:
Your math is horribly flawed because KI's is.The new wild bolt does not,
I repeat, does not hit 33% of the time at 1,000 damage.It hits somewhere
between 7 and 15%.Listen, we storm wizards have acually USED this spell
and I will tell you what you seem to have missed completly.We KNOW that
around 85% or more of the time we are simply wasting our pips and turn to
cast it.It does NOT DO ANYWHERE NEAR 50% damage over time than
the average storm spell. This new version is a disaster.Why do you think
that the vast majority of storm wizards have removed it from there deck?
Experience using it is the answer.We know that this version is in fact a
detriment.Why KI simply doesnt cap the accuracy at a reasonable % is
truely beyond me.


You are right that my math is based on the assumption that information that KI has provided about the spell is correct.

If you think that assumption is wrong, then you need to make a case for why KI would provide misleading information. Either:

1). They are capable of creating a complex interactive MMORPG, but are incapable of putting together a random number generator that successfully picks between three numbers (10, 100, and 1000) in a random fashion.

2). They intentionally want to mislead Storm Wizards into believing they are getting a better spell than they have.

Please, pick which it is and explain if that is your argument.

Let me offer a third explanation. There a lot of anecdotes about how Wild Bolt fails too often. Sometimes this might seem to be the case, because the sample size being "tested" is small, and statistical blips happen. There is a 13% chance, for instance, of getting 5 "crummy" wild bolts in a row. That's means more than 1 in every 10 times you cast five in a row, they will keep coming up short.

But there's also a psychological side to things. I used to play poker quite a bit, and when an opponent got lucky and drew a winning card at the end, you almost always remembered that fact a lot longer than the time that you did the same. In other words, you remember the fizzles that happened (especially at key times) much more than the times that spell worked.

When people provide anecdotal evidence about things, the only thing you can rely upon is that they WILL overestimate the failure rate versus the success rate of any phenomenon, whether its the likelihood of a plane crash or a spell not working in a game.

The only way to really find out is to fire the spell off about 100 times and write down the success rate when it hits. If the number ends up between about 24 and 40 (again, even at 100 times you can have sample variability), then its working. If not, then I'll reconsider those first two explanations.



The results given were from 2 seperate wild bolt tests I did while the test
realm was open.But lets assume for arguments sake that wild bolt hits 1,000
33% of the time on the live realm.So this means 66% of the time wild bolt
hits either 10 or 100 for 2 pips.That IS just wasting pips and a turn,and if
I was dumb enough to trap or blade this spell, I would be wasting those,and
the turns I used to caste them.As everyone knows all stratigic value is gone
from this card.In one of my tests with bolt on lost souls (65 hp) on unicorn
way it took me a total of 5 turns,and the cost 8 pips to kill!!! That its even
possible for this to happen with a 2 pip spell is just plain crazy.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

Yes, I read your other post, that was one of your most educated and reasoneable posts. You really should post more like that one.


Well thank you. I know I'm not always the easiest person to follow, its a failing of mine. It can be particularly tough when I post because I do it in a large batch which feels to me like one conversation. Sometimes I end up stretching out my entire train of thought over several posts. I'll try to rein that in.

darthjt wrote:

Well, I was using this as an exaggeration, to prove my point. The "New" and useless wildbolt is a waste of pips. There is no value in this spell what so ever now.


I see what you're saying. I'm extremely literal and often can't tell if people are serious or not.

darthjt wrote:

But, what I dont agree with, is your attributes cap. People spend a lot of time and money, to make pets and to get them the talents that they want them to have. It is not easy to get a pet with pain giver, spell proof, spell defy and spritely. Now, you want to take away all their hard effort to make that pet?


I see what you're saying and it is a big concern. My thought on that topic is this: they would keep their stuff as it is, there would be nothing altered on an individual item or pet. However, since combined boosts above a certain cap would result in an aggregate boost at the cap, they would start to rearrange items to take better advantage of other attributes and strategies. For instance, say (and this is completely arbitrary for the purpose of an example) the accuracy cap was 30%. They have a hat that does 15% for storm, a pet that does 10% for all, and a robe that does 12% for storm. At 37%, only 30% would be applied to storm accuracy on any given cast of a storm spell. Therefore, they would begin to pursue other items such as a hat that only gives say 8% storm accuracy and 4% myth for instance. Does that make any sense?

I am still in favor of aggregate gear caps and the reason is if it isn't done, there will always be people who exploit it which will lead to another mess like wild bolt. Take what you already know of the wild bolt issue, then consider what your friend with the high resist has done. With fortify and a tower shield, he is easily blocking over 80% of all damage. While I admire his ability to put that together, that is clearly ridiculous. As others figure it out and begin to follow suit, there will come lots of complaints and we'll be back on here with some other item or spell. At least, that's my opinion on the topic. As I sit here and re-read what I've written, I have another idea. Aggregate caps could open up a new avenue for KI in regards to PvP. The main game and standard ranked PvP could conform to the caps. However, they could also introduce a PvP unlimited where the caps wouldn't apply. It seems like PvPers might like that. I don't know though.

darthjt wrote:

Again, this is another reason, that this sudden change of wild bolt, infuriates a lot of storm players. We spent countless hours at the bazaar, waiting and looking for keen eyes (Enchanted) Sniper, and accuracy. We spent even more time and hours getting a pet that had storm shot. We did everything we could to get the best possible success rate at wildbolt. Some got it up to 50, 60, or even 70% accurate with all their boosts. Yes, it would still fizzle, but they worked very hard to get these talents.


I understand. I've worked very hard on my character as well, and I know how frustrated I'd be in your place. Thats why I'm trying to help come up with a solution that at the very least, doesn't neuter the spell. I would also love it if the solution we come up with could help prevent the same thing from happening to any group again in the future.

darthjt wrote:

Now, some, yes, used wildbolt and nothing else, not sure why, but ok. Others, when going against a boss, would try wildbolt against the minion, to make it 1v1 instead of 2v1, since storm has low health. If it fizzled, fine, wizards could then blade up and kill. It was a strategy.


Agreed. That is often the scenario I have used in explaining both sides of the issue to others.

darthjt wrote:

PVE so far, rarely cast shields, except for balance. So, that is not so bad, but once again, we can no longer rely on wild bolt. So, can you use the same strategy against a boss in celestia? No! Why? Because when you hit you lose those pips.


Agreed again, except that I would add ice (They spam towers like there's no tomorrow) and stipluate that they rarely cast shields that affect me.

darthjt wrote:

BTW, Is all the storm accuracy and all the storm damage on the same gear? with the critical bonus? You can get all at same time? Cause, like I said, most I have seen for storm accuracy with critical stats is 29. You said it was up to 60.


In the test realm experience, which I often refer to, I wasn't paying any attention to the critical status. It was at a point where I had not yes seen much use for critical gear and was therefore still focused on standard stats. In the interest of full disclosure, it was the accuracy stat I was most stunned by and therefore focused on. It was probably something like 1 in 8 that I surveyed (I found 4 out of about 25 to 30 at which point I lost interest) that had accuracy close to (or in a couple of cases slightly exceeding) 60%. While I can't remember for sure what the damage bonus was on that, on average I think it was over 35%. If I had to guess, particularly because of where I was at in the game at the time, I would say that most if not all of the gear I saw like that didn't have critical or critical block stats.

Defender
May 17, 2009
144
Professor Greyrose wrote:
We've listened to our community, done internal balance testing and had exhaustive discussions about the spell Wild Bolt, and have change the Wild Bolt spell based on this research.

Wild Bolt will now have 70% accuracy and do 10, 100, or 1000 damage.

We will continue to monitor how this impacts the balance of the game, as well as listen to all players feedback.

We ask that you take some time to play with this version of Wild Bolt before jumping to conclusions. It's truly a Wild Bolt now!

All posts regarding this change MUST go in this thread, other posts will not be approved. Let's keep it civilized, constructive and creative please.


Today a little light bulb went off in my head. Actually more like the sun got brighter, for I believe I have found a solution that solves both PvP people who have lost to storm wizards, and storm wizards problem about how it never does 1000 for us, but all the time for the enemies. This change should also go for spectral blast.
It seems like some people also complain (not many people) that spectral blast does ice all the time, except when facing a fire enemy. Soooo, here's where the solution comes in. The first time you use bolt, it does 10. The next time, it does 100. And, you guessed it, the next time it does 1000. That way storm wizards won't complain about how it never does 1000, and PvPers won't complain about getting spam bolted, because they can't get spam bolted. And spectral will do ice, then fire, then storm.
I am a storm wizard who likes this idea (mine, not geyrose's). I agree it doesn't solve the fact that we did used to have a better spell, and I still would prefer the old bolt back, I think this would work well as a temporary solution until KI can find a better one, or if they just change wild bolt back.

Survivor
Aug 30, 2008
1
As a storm grand master myself I HATE this new update with wild bolt who cares if other people hate how wild bolt is so strong and can be enchanted to never miss. I mean really you all talk about "Balance" throughout the schools but anyone can hit a thousand damage thats why they let it hit at a ten precent hit rate even with enchantments the move is still even with all the other schools in my opinion. It saddens me that every time I open my deck to look at a move that once was so awsome

Explorer
Aug 14, 2008
66
maxitola2009 wrote:
Professor Greyrose wrote:
We've listened to our community, done internal balance testing and had exhaustive discussions about the spell Wild Bolt, and have change the Wild Bolt spell based on this research.

Wild Bolt will now have 70% accuracy and do 10, 100, or 1000 damage.

We will continue to monitor how this impacts the balance of the game, as well as listen to all players feedback.

We ask that you take some time to play with this version of Wild Bolt before jumping to conclusions. It's truly a Wild Bolt now!

All posts regarding this change MUST go in this thread, other posts will not be approved. Let's keep it civilized, constructive and creative please.


Today a little light bulb went off in my head. Actually more like the sun got brighter, for I believe I have found a solution that solves both PvP people who have lost to storm wizards, and storm wizards problem about how it never does 1000 for us, but all the time for the enemies. This change should also go for spectral blast.
It seems like some people also complain (not many people) that spectral blast does ice all the time, except when facing a fire enemy. Soooo, here's where the solution comes in. The first time you use bolt, it does 10. The next time, it does 100. And, you guessed it, the next time it does 1000. That way storm wizards won't complain about how it never does 1000, and PvPers won't complain about getting spam bolted, because they can't get spam bolted. And spectral will do ice, then fire, then storm.
I am a storm wizard who likes this idea (mine, not geyrose's). I agree it doesn't solve the fact that we did used to have a better spell, and I still would prefer the old bolt back, I think this would work well as a temporary solution until KI can find a better one, or if they just change wild bolt back.


So, it would have the same accuracy and you'd have to hit 3 times to get to 1000 damage? Actually, maybe they should just raise the hit to 500-1000 (or 800) and lower the accuracy slightly, so Storm would still do some damage and everyone would be happy because they wouldn't hit too hard. Or, they could just change it back in a few months if people get too fed up with the change.

(I guess I kind of have to agree that the customers are pretty important. If they didn't pay, there wouldn't really be a game. But the GMs still have a lot of control of what they want to do.)

Explorer
Aug 21, 2010
79
Reading all this is GREAT!!!

Its good to see so many people putting thought and effort into sharing their opinions, although some people find it difficult not to insult.

A few thoughts of my own -

First off - wild bolt did NOT need fixing before this update, before CL wildbolt was a valued part of the game, and kept it in balance while retaining the uniqueness of the game.

Secondly - Wizard101 (correct me if i'm wrong) is actually meant to be kinda simple and 'fixing' all spells (like making judgement have a 10% chance of hitting yourself) would make it way to complicated, best leave them as they are.

Third - hows about KI gives storm a damage over time spell? even small amount of damage for removing shields?

And lastly... Most storm wizards will do what I did - try out the new spell, it will hit low constantly and complete the whole of CL without it in their decks. GOOD IDEA! Because the changes to wildbolt make it only useful in PvP, when you can't predict the enemies move. So dont use it in mob or boss fights but once you finish CL and take up PvP once again - please do what i did and return it to your deck - even if it is only to annoy other people when you hit and kill them :D

Survivor
Aug 03, 2010
20
rupertjames wrote:

please do what i did and return it to your deck - even if it is only to annoy other people when you hit and kill them :D


Meanwhile, the PVE Storm Wizards still suffer by having this useless piece of garbage spell sitting in their spell book collecting dust..

Defender
May 17, 2009
144
Shannoony wrote:
maxitola2009 wrote:
Professor Greyrose wrote:
We've listened to our community, done internal balance testing and had exhaustive discussions about the spell Wild Bolt, and have change the Wild Bolt spell based on this research.

Wild Bolt will now have 70% accuracy and do 10, 100, or 1000 damage.

We will continue to monitor how this impacts the balance of the game, as well as listen to all players feedback.

We ask that you take some time to play with this version of Wild Bolt before jumping to conclusions. It's truly a Wild Bolt now!

All posts regarding this change MUST go in this thread, other posts will not be approved. Let's keep it civilized, constructive and creative please.


Today a little light bulb went off in my head. Actually more like the sun got brighter, for I believe I have found a solution that solves both PvP people who have lost to storm wizards, and storm wizards problem about how it never does 1000 for us, but all the time for the enemies. This change should also go for spectral blast.
It seems like some people also complain (not many people) that spectral blast does ice all the time, except when facing a fire enemy. Soooo, here's where the solution comes in. The first time you use bolt, it does 10. The next time, it does 100. And, you guessed it, the next time it does 1000. That way storm wizards won't complain about how it never does 1000, and PvPers won't complain about getting spam bolted, because they can't get spam bolted. And spectral will do ice, then fire, then storm.
I am a storm wizard who likes this idea (mine, not geyrose's). I agree it doesn't solve the fact that we did used to have a better spell, and I still would prefer the old bolt back, I think this would work well as a temporary solution until KI can find a better one, or if they just change wild bolt back.


So, it would have the same accuracy and you'd have to hit 3 times to get to 1000 damage? Actually, maybe they should just raise the hit to 500-1000 (or 800) and lower the accuracy slightly, so Storm would still do some damage and everyone would be happy because they wouldn't hit too hard. Or, they could just change it back in a few months if people get too fed up with the change.

(I guess I kind of have to agree that the customers are pretty important. If they didn't pay, there wouldn't really be a game. But the GMs still have a lot of control of what they want to do.)


I agree that it should be changed back, but I had noticed a lot of people (including me) were complaining that wild bolt did 1000 damage about0.000000000000000000000000000001% of the time, and did 10 the other percent of the time.

Survivor
Jul 05, 2010
1
did you guys ever realize that they actually made wild bolt more accurate?
before it had a 10% chance. Now do the math: 70% of it not fizzling, and divide that by 3 (10, 100, and 1000) which is roughly 23%.
I still think that KI made it worse though before the 10 and 100 are a waist of blades, traps, and pips.

Explorer
Dec 11, 2008
59
first off i am not a storm, so i cant speak on how it changed for attacking i am however on the other side of the field i think the wild bolt changed for the bad
with the new spells in CL wild bolt is now a 100% chance of hitting but sure it could hit 10 100 or 1000 how even it went from a 10% chance to hit 1000 now its a 33% chance to hit, but like i said i don't use it and i don't see too many storms using it now a days, but hey i dont lose any thing but health when i get hit with it.

P.S
you can't please every one, i for one dont see why this is such a big deal any way lol

Hunter Ashgem (60) life
"life of the party, lets heal it up"

Survivor
Jun 11, 2009
10
I don't like the new changes to wild bolt. First of all I have used it twice since new update and it has only done 10 damage. I liked it back then because if I fizzle I still get a pip and if it hits it does 1,000 damage. That's why you shouldn't of changed it.