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Cheating bosses? Really?

1
AuthorMessage
Mastermind
Oct 11, 2009
327
Okay, it's not fair that a lot of the bosses get to cheat. Cheating is supposed to be for special towers like Briskbreeze and Warehouse, not a whole world. In the Stellarium every time me or my firend did a Fire spell, an Elemental Shield automatically appeared on the guy. Also, it says: "Fire? Again?" and then he does a Meteor Strike. I know CL is supposed to be hard, but cheating? KI please make it so the bosses don't cheat! Thanks!



*EDIT*: Actually, I've had a change of heart. It's actually a small price to pay for all the awesome new Astral spells, high XP, great drops, excellent level 58 spells, and really short dungeons. I beat Celestia already, so who am I to even care now anyway. It's not actually that bad. I like how the last boss cheats. The way the keeps putting Smoke Screens every time you attack her. I LOVE IT! Anyway, great work, KI! Keep it up!

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
how about you go fight rattle bones or lord nightshade if you dont want cheating bosses!
seriously if you cant take bosses that make the battles not straight forward and force you to think OUTSIDE the box
then don't play at all because that is what KI is trying to do
i got tired of the battles going the same way every fight
but with bosses that "cheat" you never know what might happen, this makes it a much better challenge

Samuel Duskmancer- Level 49 Necromancer
Samuel Dragonsword-Level 54 Diviner
Samuel Shadowmancer-Level 46 Theurgist

Survivor
May 07, 2010
31
Shields, lots of shields are the best to use at all times in Celestia.

The game is forcing the issue now. I have always played defensively because my Fire wizard is a glass cannon, so the difficulty change isn't that bad for me. You can't charge into fights in this zone without any defense at all. Especially if you are a high damage, low health school.

Also everyone must start thinking for the group instead of individually. If there is a person acting as a tank, ward them and not yourself. They are taking the hits so you can set up your high damage spells. Protect them.

Defender
Apr 24, 2009
125
The ends dont justify the means. This is a kids game after all and what kind of an example is it to show kids that it is ok to cheat? Celestia is hard enough as it is, do we really need cheating bosses also? We get enemies that do high level spells, high level damage and such, do we really need bosses that cheat also? People wanted Celestia to be a challenge and it is but we also dont need cheating bosses? Cheaters never prosper.

Champion
Jan 27, 2009
489
It's a challenge, it makes it fun. Also, almost all cheating bosses in celestia only cheat on cue (there are rules and if you break them they cheat) simply follow the rules and you'll be fine.

Survivor
Aug 13, 2010
19
thunderbird120 wrote:
It's a challenge, it makes it fun. Also, almost all cheating bosses in celestia only cheat on cue (there are rules and if you break them they cheat) simply follow the rules and you'll be fine.

Really? You're going the KA up to KI route? How can they cheat on cue, when player can't cheat? We are held, but KI's own simple programmers to a stringent chain of code that makes it so we could NEVER cheat. So how can you say a boss cheats on cue, when we have no way to cheat. What using a high lvl spell with 80% to hit from our primary school is cheating? These things throw, and I'm not just talking about bosses, a 1 pip spell that can do between 700-800 HP of damage in one shot. So how did we make them cheat on cue? The rules have been in place for EVERY area, but yet Celestia is the only one where I've seen them change the boosts so that it's not good to be a Death primary. Life boosts on almost everything there, but Death has not effect on Balance like it used to (Life doesn't either for balance that is). So again, w/o putting a bit more brown the tip of your nose, explain to me how the characters can cheat, and cause a boss to cheat on cue. Please, I really need a good laugh.

Survivor
Dec 19, 2009
12
:)Celestia is fine the cheating bosses rock. If you can't handle them you don't deserve to be in Celestia I soloed the Stellarium. Kingsisle please keep it the way it is!

Defender
May 30, 2009
108
Did they give any sort of "hey, the boss in here is going to cheat" warning like they did with Briskbreeze and the Warehouse? I'm pretty sure they didn't... I would at least like to have a heads up to which bosses cheat, yo.

Survivor
Aug 13, 2010
19
dream2dust wrote:
Did they give any sort of "hey, the boss in here is going to cheat" warning like they did with Briskbreeze and the Warehouse? I'm pretty sure they didn't... I would at least like to have a heads up to which bosses cheat, yo.

Exactly. They gave no warning in their "updates page" nor did they say they were changing the boosts. NOT on the updates page at least. And the only ones satisfied with the change are the ones that are probably getting kickbacks for being a KA to KI.

Survivor
Aug 13, 2010
8
Programming a game so that it cheats is lazy programming. Any programmer can write a program that cheats to win. A truly skilled programmer can create a game program that challenges while not frustrating and annoying players.

I thought the programming staff at KI was quite skilled when I first saw the game, and that's coming from someone with over 20 years of software development experience. I was very impressed with what I saw. Now, post-Celestia, I'm not so sure. Have they given up? Gotten lazy and uncreative? Or just given bad specs and implementing as best they can?

Defender
May 30, 2009
108
abhiramreddy wrote:
:)Celestia is fine the cheating bosses rock. If you can't handle them you don't deserve to be in Celestia I soloed the Stellarium. Kingsisle please keep it the way it is!


Eh, I soloed the Stellarium as well without using potions and dying blahblahblah, but it was still uber annoying when I realized the boss was of the cheating variety without any forewarning. I don't think the cheating bosses need to be taken out... I just think we should be warned to what bosses cheat. *HINTHINT*, KI.

-Jessica SkullSlinger

Explorer
Jul 17, 2009
61
I understand the frustration of alot of people about this (myself included). Cuthalla heals itself 5000 with satyr when hit.
I solo most of the time because the hours I work in real life do not allow me to meet up with people to battle.

What I don't understand is the need people have to down others and tell them to go back to fighting rattlebones if they can't handle it. There's no need to be rude or condescending to others. Like many have pointed out, this is a kid's game after all. On the other hand I see the point of many hard core gamers that want a bigger challenge.

I've had too many people join my battles without asking right as I was about to deliver the killing shot and draw in more goons. As a storm I have low health to begin with and I've found that by myself I have to use henchmen alot. As for that I can't afford that too much. There is such a thing as a messed up economy in the real world and having a roof over my head and food to eat take priority over a game. I also do not like "forced socialization" being forced on me. If I want friends I'm quite capable of getting them in real life. But here's the kicker with that as well. Most of the people I meet in real life I wouldn't want as friends to begin with. THIS is the reason I play online games.

For myself, I guess if some adjustments can't be made to find a middle ground for the majority then I won't have the choice except to delete/cancel 3 of my 4 accounts and just have to be satisfied going back to fighting rattlebones until I tire of that lol.

The gear that we're allowed to get doesn't really do that much to help in my opinion.

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
bgmacaw wrote:
Programming a game so that it cheats is lazy programming. Any programmer can write a program that cheats to win. A truly skilled programmer can create a game program that challenges while not frustrating and annoying players.

I thought the programming staff at KI was quite skilled when I first saw the game, and that's coming from someone with over 20 years of software development experience. I was very impressed with what I saw. Now, post-Celestia, I'm not so sure. Have they given up? Gotten lazy and uncreative? Or just given bad specs and implementing as best they can?


or is that players dont want a challenge and just want to be lazy and have everything handed to them on a silver platter

seriously
its not even cheating
its like the law
you follow the rules and you can go on your merry way
but break the rules and well... there has to be some consequences
if you dont like that then just dont play in celestia
its that simple
i like the bosses because it means i have to be wary with what i do in the fight
its always fun to go back and try beating it again with a different strategy

Survivor
Aug 13, 2010
8
Thechaosmagician wrote:

or is that players dont want a challenge and just want to be lazy and have everything handed to them on a silver platter


Not at all. It is lazy programming to program in an arbitrary cheat for bosses. It is excellent programming to improve the game AI so that it's challenging to players, such as adjusting itself based on the number of players in a fight and so forth, in a seamless manner.

And it's more than just not playing Celestia, it's me and my family not playing Wizard101 at all and moving on to other, more player/customer friendly and better programmed, online games.


Defender
Apr 24, 2009
125
Not surprised really that KI put cheating bosses in Celestia. People complained when they made the whole spiral with bosses cheating when GH came out and they changed it back to normal. They made Briskbreeze to satisfy the Hardcore whiners that like stuff like that. People arent complaining about Briskbreeze because it is optional. KI does the Celestia Preview quest and made the Warehouse a cheating boss zone despite the fact that not everyone likes that, people complained and they made it optional. Which to me should have been made a normal tower instead of optional because I like to earn my way into Celestia but not with cheating bosses.

Despite people's complaints and protests they add cheating bosses to Celestia as if all of the people that dont like that stuff doesnt matter to KI and our complaints and protests fall on deaf ears. Now again this game is geared towards kids and such if hardcore gamers are looking for hardcore gaming there are other MMO's out there that are more up your alley, please dont ruin this game for me and my family and all of the other people that dont like the cheating bosses in the game. If your tired of the same old battles with Rattlebones and such than find another game that will satisfy your craving. I for one want to relax when I play this game and is a stess reliever to me I dont need to be stressed out figuring out a plan to defeat a boss that if you make the wrong move he cheats and others arent on the same page as you. Now I know people are going to whine about my post because they have nothing better else to do but seriously if you dont like the difficulty of Celestia without the cheating bosses than you need to go to another game that will fit your style more. To that person that soloed the Stellarium that is utter bull that you soloed it because Celestia is too difficult to solo especially when you have a boss like that that cheats. IF someone doesnt like a certain aspect of a game they have a right to voice their opinion and not have someone tell them if you dont like it than stay out of Celestia maybe better yet when and if they take out the cheating bosses in Celestia and if the game isnt hard enough for you than you need to either change your strategy or find another MMO like WOW that can be more to your liking.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
linny913 wrote:
What I don't understand is the need people have to down others and tell them to go back to fighting rattlebones if they can't handle it. There's no need to be rude or condescending to others.

Thanks for saying this. I agree. I suggest posting tips to help the OP.

Like many have pointed out, this is a kid's game after all. On the other hand I see the point of many hard core gamers that want a bigger challenge.
This game is being marketed as a family friendly game for ALL ages. To me that suggests a different market than hardcore gamers. Therefore IMO the game should be made so many ages can play it. The middle ground you mention below. That in turn means some will complain it is to easy, others it is still to hard. But, the majority will think it is fine.

For myself, I guess if some adjustments can't be made to find a middle ground for the majority then I won't have the choice except to delete/cancel 3 of my 4 accounts and just have to be satisfied going back to fighting rattlebones until I tire of that lol.
I am hoping some adjustments will be made. MOST people need to be able to play game. They need to be challenged. But, not to the point they can't solo if they desire or get so frustrated they want to quit.

The gear that we're allowed to get doesn't really do that much to help in my opinion.
I have not changed my gear yet. I feel I would be giving up more than I would gain. I will change out some of my gear at level 54.

Megan

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
bgmacaw wrote:
Thechaosmagician wrote:

or is that players dont want a challenge and just want to be lazy and have everything handed to them on a silver platter


Not at all. It is lazy programming to program in an arbitrary cheat for bosses. It is excellent programming to improve the game AI so that it's challenging to players, such as adjusting itself based on the number of players in a fight and so forth, in a seamless manner.

And it's more than just not playing Celestia, it's me and my family not playing Wizard101 at all and moving on to other, more player/customer friendly and better programmed, online games.



oh so i gather your just a lazy player who wants everything straight forward
as i have said its not cheating
they dont cheat every turn they dont multicast
i mean seriously follow the rules
if you cant handle following the rules of what you call a boss "cheating" then i suggest you take you and your "family" to another game because it sickens me how many people whine about these bosses, when its these bosses that make it more fun to truly test yourself.
but you don't seem to understand this
its not lazy programing
it makes a fight more interesting thus the term "harder"
if you truly dont want bosses who "cheat" then go fight in wizard city or something...

Survivor
May 07, 2010
31
Thechaosmagician wrote:
bgmacaw wrote:
Thechaosmagician wrote:

or is that players dont want a challenge and just want to be lazy and have everything handed to them on a silver platter


Not at all. It is lazy programming to program in an arbitrary cheat for bosses. It is excellent programming to improve the game AI so that it's challenging to players, such as adjusting itself based on the number of players in a fight and so forth, in a seamless manner.

And it's more than just not playing Celestia, it's me and my family not playing Wizard101 at all and moving on to other, more player/customer friendly and better programmed, online games.



oh so i gather your just a lazy player who wants everything straight forward
as i have said its not cheating
they dont cheat every turn they dont multicast
i mean seriously follow the rules
if you cant handle following the rules of what you call a boss "cheating" then i suggest you take you and your "family" to another game because it sickens me how many people whine about these bosses, when its these bosses that make it more fun to truly test yourself.
but you don't seem to understand this
its not lazy programing
it makes a fight more interesting thus the term "harder"
if you truly dont want bosses who "cheat" then go fight in wizard city or something...


Don't make me laugh.

Its not testing a player to play against cheating bosses. Its just taking more health from players that doesn't need to happen.

I've been in Stellarium and a boss in there cheated every round against me and the minions I purchased. And this wasn't even triggered by heals.

They need to turn the dial down on this area. They will lose players. Especially since the whole zone looks like a money grab by forcing people to buy critical potions and minions.

Survivor
Aug 13, 2010
8
Thechaosmagician wrote:
i suggest you take you and your "family" to another game because it sickens me how many people whine about these bosses, when its these bosses that make it more fun to truly test yourself.


Your attitude is something that sickens me about this game and why I prefer to play solo. There are far too many rude players, such as you, in this game to make it an enjoyable bit of entertainment. I encountered one while playing today and I see yet another example on this board.

Between attitudes such as yours and the lack of imagination and money grubbing at KI, I'm very close to taking my business elsewhere unless things change dramatically for the better soon.

Survivor
Jul 19, 2010
3
I hate cheating bosses. it makes it almost impossble for beat them. I'm a lvl 47 storm and even when i do the ware house with 3 other grands we cant beat them. Its not fair and if the bosses are that way in celestia then i wont be able to progress in the game and if i cant progress, then i'm going to stop playing. This is supposed to be a fair game. and if you HAVE to keep them cheating then let us cheat. Even high lvl wizards can stink at wizard101 so plz make it easyer plz.

Jonathan Darkeyes
lvl 47 storm

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
bgmacaw wrote:
Thechaosmagician wrote:
i suggest you take you and your "family" to another game because it sickens me how many people whine about these bosses, when its these bosses that make it more fun to truly test yourself.


Your attitude is something that sickens me about this game and why I prefer to play solo. There are far too many rude players, such as you, in this game to make it an enjoyable bit of entertainment. I encountered one while playing today and I see yet another example on this board.

Between attitudes such as yours and the lack of imagination and money grubbing at KI, I'm very close to taking my business elsewhere unless things change dramatically for the better soon.


wow i know someone on another message board who sounds exactly like you
but like i said
if you are gonna keep whining about how "unfair" it is
then just quit
doesnt really matter, for how many people quit i know for a fact more than half will come back after their little rage quit.

Historian
May 15, 2009
673
Ferrariboy360 wrote:
I hate cheating bosses. it makes it almost impossble for beat them. I'm a lvl 47 storm and even when i do the ware house with 3 other grands we cant beat them. Its not fair and if the bosses are that way in celestia then i wont be able to progress in the game and if i cant progress, then i'm going to stop playing. This is supposed to be a fair game. and if you HAVE to keep them cheating then let us cheat. Even high lvl wizards can stink at wizard101 so plz make it easyer plz.

Jonathan Darkeyes
lvl 47 storm


we CAN cast out of turn
there are MANY pets with battle talents
i know a couple
ive seen satyrs that auto cast shields even if its not your turn
ive seen minotaurs that cast 3-4 sprites in a row on its injured owner
its not like KI doesn't listen to us

Defender
Jan 25, 2010
178
willwolf64 wrote:
Okay, it's not fair that a lot of the bosses get to cheat. Cheating is supposed to be for special towers like Briskbreeze and Warehouse, not a whole world. In the Stellarium every time me or my firend did a Fire spell, an Elemental Shield automatically appeared on the guy. Also, it says: "Fire? Again?" and then he does a Meteor Strike. I know CL is supposed to be hard, but cheating? KI please make it so the bosses don't cheat! Thanks!


4 of us level 50's were fighting Eeglis and we were dropping like flies.

DO NOT USE SATYR while fighting him. In EVERY instance it will trigger him to use the 7 pip Balance School Power Nova (looks like a fire spell really).

We realized that the only way to win was to stop using all health spells, flee on low health, drink a potion and come back fresh.

It took us all several trips but we got him.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
Thechaosmagician wrote:
[
if you are gonna keep whining about how "unfair" it is
then just quit
doesnt really matter, for how many people quit i know for a fact more than half will come back after their little rage quit.


Telling people to quit whining and quit is rude and unproductive. They have their opinion and you have yours. Suggesting strategies to beat them is a better thing to do.

There is an old rule of thumb-when one person is dissatisfied a business can lose one hundred customers. They tell ten people and they tell ten people so on and so forth. I have seen that play out.

Wizard101 is marketed as a family/ any age game. They need to make their game match that IMO. That is a different market than a hardcore gamer site. If the majority of the players are struggling something is wrong and it needs to be corrected. I know more of my friends are struggling than not.

Megan


Defender
Apr 24, 2009
125
Firefan02 wrote:
Thechaosmagician wrote:
[
if you are gonna keep whining about how "unfair" it is
then just quit
doesnt really matter, for how many people quit i know for a fact more than half will come back after their little rage quit.


Telling people to quit whining and quit is rude and unproductive. They have their opinion and you have yours. Suggesting strategies to beat them is a better thing to do.

There is an old rule of thumb-when one person is dissatisfied a business can lose one hundred customers. They tell ten people and they tell ten people so on and so forth. I have seen that play out.

Wizard101 is marketed as a family/ any age game. They need to make their game match that IMO. That is a different market than a hardcore gamer site. If the majority of the players are struggling something is wrong and it needs to be corrected. I know more of my friends are struggling than not.

Megan



Yes, I agree. I am not sure how many players KI lost when they released GH on the live realm and all bosses in the whole spiral was cheating before they changed it back to normal. How many more people do they have to lose before they understand that putting cheating bosses as non-optional is not the way to go? Maybe they could put an optional tower in Celestia like Briskbreeze for all of the hardcore gamers at level 60. As I have said before Celestia is hard enough as it is, do we really need cheating bosses?

1