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Xibalba - when challenging becomes abusive

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Sep 06, 2011
5
Just completed the Xibalba quest that completes the Azteca world in the spiral. I have to say that this sequence went far beyond being challenging - it was abusive. As a single player (Life School) it took over 6 hours to complete (no choice about stopping and coming back later since it is a dungeon type sequence) and forced me to go through about a dozen henchman in total to actually have a chance to win the series from beginning to end.

Since both Morganthe and Malistaire conveniently make an exit before the end, I assume folks at KI are planning on new worlds where they show up again. Hence a suggestion to the game designers at KI - please keep within some bounds of reason when designing future quests in future lands. Anything that requires in excess of an hour or so of continuous activity with no possibility of pausing the action for a return at a later time is too much. Creating opponent scenarios that force a single wizard to burn through vast quanities of henchman, especially in circumstances where finding allies to join in the fray are limited is too much.

Otherwise, thanks KI for another fun experience in Azteca!!!! Looking forward to see what you come up with for the next world .

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
gemstone2006 on Mar 10, 2013 wrote:
Just completed the Xibalba quest that completes the Azteca world in the spiral. I have to say that this sequence went far beyond being challenging - it was abusive. As a single player (Life School) it took over 6 hours to complete (no choice about stopping and coming back later since it is a dungeon type sequence) and forced me to go through about a dozen henchman in total to actually have a chance to win the series from beginning to end.

Since both Morganthe and Malistaire conveniently make an exit before the end, I assume folks at KI are planning on new worlds where they show up again. Hence a suggestion to the game designers at KI - please keep within some bounds of reason when designing future quests in future lands. Anything that requires in excess of an hour or so of continuous activity with no possibility of pausing the action for a return at a later time is too much. Creating opponent scenarios that force a single wizard to burn through vast quanities of henchman, especially in circumstances where finding allies to join in the fray are limited is too much.

Otherwise, thanks KI for another fun experience in Azteca!!!! Looking forward to see what you come up with for the next world .
Altho I think your post is a bit of a vent because you spent more crowns then you would of liked to, I don't think KI is unhappy with you purchasing Henchman? If it makes you feel any better word around is a lot of people are doing this to get past this world so I would not expect any changes in how difficult things are in this land.

It may also be a stretch to say they forced them on you since it was actually your choosing to purchase them.

In the end you seemed to be very happy with the challenge that this world provided and look forward to it being even more difficult in the next world?

You can take solace in the fact that many have entered this world and gave up far before that final fight. It would appear that mainly the people who can afford to pay to play can continue on.

Survivor
Sep 06, 2011
5
Thanks for your comments brwac. My post could be considered venting if expressing an opinion about an unsatisfactory experience with an online gaming environment along with suggestions on avoiding that scenario in the future is properly classified as such. I personally consider someone to be venting their thoughts/feelings when they discuss feelings of frustrations, anger, etc without an effort to reconcile themselves to the effort of also trying to improve on the situation.

When the attempt is made to offer input on how a situation / experience could be improved in the future I would classify that information as constructive criticism.

Whether KI wants to be the recipient of constructive criticism from its user community or not is unknown to me, but I thought I would make the effort to communicate in hopes that they are listening and would think about the input being offered.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
gemstone2006 on Mar 12, 2013 wrote:
Thanks for your comments brwac. My post could be considered venting if expressing an opinion about an unsatisfactory experience with an online gaming environment along with suggestions on avoiding that scenario in the future is properly classified as such. I personally consider someone to be venting their thoughts/feelings when they discuss feelings of frustrations, anger, etc without an effort to reconcile themselves to the effort of also trying to improve on the situation.

When the attempt is made to offer input on how a situation / experience could be improved in the future I would classify that information as constructive criticism.

Whether KI wants to be the recipient of constructive criticism from its user community or not is unknown to me, but I thought I would make the effort to communicate in hopes that they are listening and would think about the input being offered.
You maybe correct - venting was poor choice of words on my part, I apologize for that.

For what it is worth I think players should report how they are feeling about the game, good or bad and I believe KI does make note of things to get a feel of how players are doing and sometimes changes are made because of it.

I think your post was valid on how players are trying to get though the game. It certainly did not come across as a rant, it was just the facts stated well.

A+ Student
Feb 25, 2009
1527
Brwac is right. I stopped running in Az over 2 weeks ago. At the moment, I have no desire to return. Az is the most stressful and un-rewarding world this game has ever released. If the next world is as anything like Az, then, they can keep it. I will not take another wizard through. I will take them only to the point I can and do enjoy it. I will not be creating another account.

Champion
Dec 01, 2011
496
DragonLady1818 on Mar 12, 2013 wrote:
Brwac is right. I stopped running in Az over 2 weeks ago. At the moment, I have no desire to return. Az is the most stressful and un-rewarding world this game has ever released. If the next world is as anything like Az, then, they can keep it. I will not take another wizard through. I will take them only to the point I can and do enjoy it. I will not be creating another account.
I would not be so surprise if the next world is harder. We are a minority compare to the ones who want and enjoy though challenges.

We just dont seem to get hear. Our voices count.

I just hope we get the fun and magic we enoyed back..

Explorer
Mar 26, 2011
83
I agree they have made AZ impossible. Though i haven't completed it so far it has been brutal. Especially when soloing it. I hope the next world will be much better then AZ. ~Hunter Blue Flame level 88 pyromancer

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2923
DragonLady1818 on Mar 12, 2013 wrote:
Brwac is right. I stopped running in Az over 2 weeks ago. At the moment, I have no desire to return. Az is the most stressful and un-rewarding world this game has ever released. If the next world is as anything like Az, then, they can keep it. I will not take another wizard through. I will take them only to the point I can and do enjoy it. I will not be creating another account.
golden is exactly right: azteca is unnecessarily stressful for casual gamers.

i am one such player~ i'm currently running my second wizard (archmage necromancer) through there, but i never would have sent him if i didn't have several good friends- all people from these forums- who are usually able and willing to help~ not because it's difficult, but because it's tedious and boring. good company makes the torture go by a lot faster.

i have 2 accounts and will likely take all my wizards to level 90, as long as i have friends. they are the only joy i have left in this game and, if they go, i go. end of.

-von

Survivor
Feb 23, 2010
2
Totally agree. I have been playing Wiz for over two and half years. It was fun and exciting. Then starting with Zafaria it became less of a challenge and more tedious with the same battles having to be done again and again and again. With Avalon and especially Azteca,it is more about spending crowns for items that are truly useless (gear and henchman). I am fortunate that I can afford to play this game solo (buying henchman after henchman) but I convinced my friends to play who aren't able to waste money like I do and they just got fed up. We should only have to buy henchman to get thru battles faster not to be able to actually win a battle. My kids quit playing because they got so frustrated. The stats on the gear are deceiving (do the math and see the results during battle), the block stats are deceiving, and as a person progresses thru the game, it no longer is a fun and challenging game but full of a lot of frustration due to the futility of trying to battle alone when it's your only option. I think what would solve a lot of this is to reward higher level players with more pips to start with (since we start with the same sorry two yellow pips we got at lvl 30 at lvl 90 vs 5 yellow pips of the adversary). That's not what I call challenging, it's what I call futility. So KI pls make the game fun and challenging again.

Survivor
Jul 21, 2012
1
Many are unhappy of Azteca's degree of difficulty.
I always play alone, mostly because I am an elderly lady from Denmark and can only write English, via Google translator, it takes too long to write to other players during the game that way, so I am a loner, but if I have need help, I'll buy Henchman.
It is my choice.
I've played Wiz. in some years, and my first character is Pyromancer, and her I have just completed Azteca with Xibalba took only small 3 hours for me to get through, and I spent only 3 Henchman in each match.
Since Celestia started, I have tried my way with which spel, traps, charms and anything else that works best.
I have always kept an eye on Bazar, to buy better items.
To get the best resist on my clothes.
Each world in the Wiz. gradually a little more difficult to tackle.
Each new world is not just to beat monsters down, it is also the brain to be with.
Even 10 year olds children like challenges, otherwise the game boring, and when a new world made ​​a little more demanding than the last world, so it should get a player to think before they rush out into battle.
It is not a question of being first finished the new world, it is important to get the most out of the game.
I am thinking of strategy, agility, skill and sense.
Wiz. must not make 20 different worlds, with a degree of difficulty that is on Dragonspyre.
The game should be a little more difficult with each new world, it keeps the brain going.
When you spend money on Henchman, you also have to think about what the enemy is to resist, otherwise wasting your money and dont just buy the biggest Henchman, so there is no challenge in the fight.
Yes, Azteca is a challenge, but it can be done, and it takes time.
Wiz. is a good game, anyone can play, young and old, and at the same time, children and young people learn a lot about patience in this game.
All should be better for each new world in Wiz.
I have other character to Azteca now, all different schools.

Geographer
Feb 19, 2010
939
gemstone2006 on Mar 10, 2013 wrote:
Just completed the Xibalba quest that completes the Azteca world in the spiral. I have to say that this sequence went far beyond being challenging - it was abusive. As a single player (Life School) it took over 6 hours to complete (no choice about stopping and coming back later since it is a dungeon type sequence) and forced me to go through about a dozen henchman in total to actually have a chance to win the series from beginning to end.

Since both Morganthe and Malistaire conveniently make an exit before the end, I assume folks at KI are planning on new worlds where they show up again. Hence a suggestion to the game designers at KI - please keep within some bounds of reason when designing future quests in future lands. Anything that requires in excess of an hour or so of continuous activity with no possibility of pausing the action for a return at a later time is too much. Creating opponent scenarios that force a single wizard to burn through vast quanities of henchman, especially in circumstances where finding allies to join in the fray are limited is too much.

Otherwise, thanks KI for another fun experience in Azteca!!!! Looking forward to see what you come up with for the next world .
I never really have a instance last much longer than an hour at the most but if it would i would simply turn on the auto spin and let my toon just sit there till i was done with anything that i had to do then come back and finish.

I really think KI should do something with instances that take some schools or players a longer time to finish such as a save point of sorts. This way a player can log out if need then pick up where they left off.

Explorer
Dec 02, 2010
63
DragonLady1818 on Mar 12, 2013 wrote:
Brwac is right. I stopped running in Az over 2 weeks ago. At the moment, I have no desire to return. Az is the most stressful and un-rewarding world this game has ever released. If the next world is as anything like Az, then, they can keep it. I will not take another wizard through. I will take them only to the point I can and do enjoy it. I will not be creating another account.
I feel you. I'm not a casual player; I consider myself on the "lighter" side of a hardcore player, but I realized when I was basically forced into buying many Life henchman for my boss battles, I knew then it was time to consider not taking any more wizards through AZ (I just finished with my Myth days ago). In truth, I'm still heavily considering it, but I'm leaning more any more towards just taking my wizards through Avalon (the last world I really enjoyed) and stopping after that.

Survivor
Aug 26, 2011
24
The thing about Azteca, is it made me reevaluate how I played this game.

The first wizard I took through Azteca was Ice, which left me slightly oblivious to the issues with Azteca, due to his high storm resist. That being said, I still found the Pampero Spirits in the Floating Mountains and the Night Terrors in Twin Giants to be significantly harder than I would have liked for a "street fight".

With my second wizard (death) these fights became beyond miserable, due to my death wizards significantly lower resist to storm. Or they would have, if I had not changed tactics. To fight these monstrosities, and they truly are monstrosities with their blade shattering, stunning, and fizzling spells, I surrendered most of my gear bonuses to achieve one thing -- massive storm resist (80% -- probably could have done better, but its what I could do on short notice).

Now admittedly I have played most of Wizard 101 with somebody I would consider a real-life friend since Avalon on my first wizard, completing the quests largely in lockstep with once another. Having a partner helps substantially in Azteca. Prior to Azteca we had used tactics that were largely unchanged since Celestia. In Azteca we added Stun Block to our decks (an absolute necessity for Ice, Myth and especially Storm). Once we got to the Floating Mountains we started swapping out our gear with global resist for gear with high storm resist when fighting storm.

Right now its only storm, but it concerns me that with a new world, the other schools will become like Storm is in Azteca, and require that we lug around a bunch of gear "sets" for each school that we encounter.

A street fight should never feel harder than a boss fight, which is how it has been (even counting Twin Giants Belloq) for much of Azteca since the end of Pitch Black Lake.

Explorer
Jun 10, 2012
95
lastdaysgunslinger on Mar 16, 2013 wrote:
I never really have a instance last much longer than an hour at the most but if it would i would simply turn on the auto spin and let my toon just sit there till i was done with anything that i had to do then come back and finish.

I really think KI should do something with instances that take some schools or players a longer time to finish such as a save point of sorts. This way a player can log out if need then pick up where they left off.
You're obviously a much better player than I am. I have had dungeons take several hours for my balance wizard to solo. I've learned to mentally double the time estimate given in the dungeon warning when figuring how much time it will take, and I've put off doing the optional ones with 4 hour estimates because of that. Even if I had a block of 8 hours to spend in a dungeon, I really don't want to, and with my flakey internet connection, the danger of losing all progress after several hours of slogging through battles makes it too much of a risk. So yes, the one thing I dearly wish KI would give us is the ability to save our progress after each battle in a dungeon and come back to it later at our convenience. People who want the challenge of a 4 hour gauntlet could simply not save.

Survivor
Sep 27, 2011
12
sadijara on Mar 15, 2013 wrote:
1)I am fortunate that I can afford to play this game solo...
2)We should only have to buy henchman to get thru battles faster...
3)The stats on the gear are deceiving...
4)I think what would solve a lot of this is to reward higher level players with more pips to start with....
1) I agree with you 100%. I too am fortunate to afford to play solo. I like playing solo. Sometimes I avoid silly, annoying, hurtful, offensive chatter. Begging from people I’ve never met or who never helped me to Gift them Crowns or TC’s.
2) I agree with you 100%. I’ve since learned to calculated what henchman, what minimum level of henchman, how many henchmen, and especially when to add henchmen to my battle. It makes my battle, like you said, “a bit more challenging”.
3) I agree with you 100%! Notice I repeated 100%. 100% is the MATHAMATICALLY max! KI has managed to take 100% and turn it into some astronomical PERCENTAGE WHICH PLAYERS NEVER KNOW IT’S MAX! IE, a Wizard having 173%, 120%, etc in any area is MATHAMATICALLY ridiculous. You’re unable to see the real math calculation until you cursor over to see the true math equation which is something like 10%-UGH! Get real with YOUR MATH percentages KI 100% is 100% ! Please STOP hiding and DISPLAY true percentages.
4) I agree with you 100%! Give us something KI. Entice us KI. More pips for certain battles. It’s time.
Sadijara, everything was 100% well said!

Explorer
Jul 22, 2009
82
A pause button would be good to incorperate in long dungeons in Avalon, Aztecia, maybe The Final Countdown.

Survivor
Mar 31, 2011
1
I completely agree with Dimesio, could not have put it better myself.

Delver
Oct 11, 2010
270
gemstone2006 on Mar 10, 2013 wrote:
Just completed the Xibalba quest that completes the Azteca world in the spiral. I have to say that this sequence went far beyond being challenging - it was abusive. As a single player (Life School) it took over 6 hours to complete (no choice about stopping and coming back later since it is a dungeon type sequence) and forced me to go through about a dozen henchman in total to actually have a chance to win the series from beginning to end.

Since both Morganthe and Malistaire conveniently make an exit before the end, I assume folks at KI are planning on new worlds where they show up again. Hence a suggestion to the game designers at KI - please keep within some bounds of reason when designing future quests in future lands. Anything that requires in excess of an hour or so of continuous activity with no possibility of pausing the action for a return at a later time is too much. Creating opponent scenarios that force a single wizard to burn through vast quanities of henchman, especially in circumstances where finding allies to join in the fray are limited is too much.

Otherwise, thanks KI for another fun experience in Azteca!!!! Looking forward to see what you come up with for the next world .
Neat post.

Now bear in mind I am close to hardcore but I finish all the new content quickly when it comes out. First time I did xib it was solo with hele tower ring/atem ww robe, hat and crafted boots. (fairy and mega pet did not exist yet) pet had unicorn, cast tower, spite and spell proof. This was a challenge first time in so long i had a challenge on my death wizard. I did beat this after having to run back hehe i did not know someone was immune to all attacks ;-p wasted my setup to find that out no biggy live and learn :-) I did it again after some HUGE upgrades to my gear its now a walk in the park. ( mega pets now with fairy and more stats all around)

The last two areas of AZ i actually had to stop using the starter deck. Used this deck up until alto alto as the monsters have more health than that deck could support taking down easily. I use to carry around resist sets and such, thats a thing of the past sitting at 50% global its not bad could go more but with a loss to other stats i want like pip% block % etc. can do pretty much anything at any point without henchmen. However i will say this - the best gear that will allow such freedom comes from packs and things in the shop. i.e mastery amy's etc. I do have a few setups for situations and what needs i have i.e. push power, push critical and so on.

Great game great work just need to get new content out sooner. p101 is long over due too ;-p

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
I totally agree with the guy who started this thread. Actually, I find Azteca to be a terrible world. The bosses have too much health and too many pips and too much resistance, so every battle takes forever to complete. Also, it is impossible to complete solo. Furthermore, since Pirates started most of my good friends have disappeared, so Wizard world feels abandoned. I think KI did a really bad world here. They made the quests too hard, the crafting too hard, the reagents too hard to find -- everything went from being a fun challenge to a royal pain and a bore. I have taken to playing lower level wizards, because this world is just plain bad.

Survivor
Feb 04, 2012
1
Please make it more difficult. I know how hard it is solo but if we could all solo it easy why would it be worth playing. My Balance has had struggles but figured it out( did not buy henchmen but got a friend who could commit to the hour or so for the dungeon), my Death is almost there and I gotta say the game so far is too easy as Death, I won't even consider creating a Storm unless the next world is insanely difficult it presents a new challenge. In my opinion KI has a difficult task making enough of a challenge. They might actually want to consider making a pvp only world.

Survivor
Jun 12, 2009
39
A crossword on a 1000 x 1000 grid may take longer than a 26x26 puzzle, but isn't necessary more challenging in a good way. That's how I view these upper levels. I think you need to be in it for the storyline or the music, because really there is only basic way to make new worlds at a higher level - make the creatures stronger or more clever. What I'm sensing is that Wizards aren't getting enough power to keep pace, so times for battles get longer and longer. Longer does not always equate to more challenging or more fun.

Also, if you're not on the cutting edge when a new world is released, the place feels deserted even in the crowded realms. Thus you can hit a wall.

Defender
Nov 01, 2012
105
I agree so much with this. I used my first henchman in Azteca just today. I feel so defeated.
Level 89 Necromaner

Survivor
Feb 06, 2011
8
xibalaba ( sha booboo) is tough still henchman? you get friends if your life go with storm and fire so you can heal they can attack maybe a forest lord now and again i wish i was life sometimes. and if you can get the jade mystery gear that 72 resist at level 90 with a heal and resist pet and if you want to attack crafted gear or waterworks gear your choice

Survivor
Feb 06, 2011
8
darksorcerer579 on May 9, 2013 wrote:
xibalaba ( sha booboo) is tough still henchman? you get friends if your life go with storm and fire so you can heal they can attack maybe a forest lord now and again i wish i was life sometimes. and if you can get the jade mystery gear that 72 resist at level 90 with a heal and resist pet and if you want to attack crafted gear or waterworks gear your choice
i mean 72 resist xD

Survivor
Dec 10, 2010
22
Might I suggest seeing diego about stun block its a free spell that will save you many a headache hint hint