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Training Points Buyback - School Specific

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Sep 01, 2011
16
Dear KingsIsle – Please consider changing the “Buyback” feature to be School Specific.

I have several wizards on two different accounts that have:
A. Accidentally trained spells that they did not intend to train such as Keen Eyes instead of the intended Strong and/or Giant.
B. Have trained spells that at one time were useful but now just never get used any more, such as Fire spells up to Fire Elf, etc…

Since these wizards were mostly Level 50+ at the time of accidentally training and/or are now all at Level 90. I will never spend the 10,000-12,000+ crowns it would take to sell back ALL of my training point spells and just live with the mistakes I have made with my wizards.

Professor Greyrose wrote the following on a Thread in the Test Realm Section:
“Training Point buyback for Crowns is a matter of Crowns Vs Time.
You can either spend the Crowns to sell back your spells and get all of your Training Points back.
OR
You can spend the time to level up another character and spend the Training Points as you wish.”

Now I have spent just too much time, efforts, blood, sweat & tears on all of my Promethean Wizards. I also have absolutely no intention of deleting ANY of them & starting over as suggested by Professor Greyrose in her “Time” portion of the above quote.

BUT… I would definitely spend a smaller portion of my crowns (100-200 crowns per training point suggested) on being able to “Buyback” just those School specific spells.

I am not even sure why the “Buyback” feature is the currently set for “All or Nothing” considering that you recommended age group for the game is 10+ years old and will often spend these Training points very impulsively.

Having the “Buyback” feature set as a School specific function, I know for a fact that more Wizards, both Subscribed Members AND Crown/Access Players, would be buying/spending more crowns on that feature than is currently done now. So if you are truly looking for players to Buy/Spend more crowns on something, this is a golden opportunity to get the player base to do so.

Thank you in advance for your time, attention and consideration in this matter that would be a benefit to the game as a whole.

- Christo
The Assistance Specialists
Wizard101Central

Historian
Jul 18, 2010
602
Yeah you're right. When I first started playing I thought stun block was sooo cool (lol) but found out its almost useless especially In lower worlds ... I would like to buy back my training points for just certain spells as well. I don't want to spell all those crowns way too pricy!! Anyway I don't want to go around the spiral to train back spells I want . Great idea we should be able to choose which spells we don't want anymore instead of spending all those crowns for all spells, including ones we want

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2272
many people (myself included) would agree with you, but they won't do it. Professor Greyrose has stated tons of times it's Money vs Time and has never wavered in her stance.

Survivor
Sep 01, 2011
16
dayerider on Jul 24, 2013 wrote:
many people (myself included) would agree with you, but they won't do it. Professor Greyrose has stated tons of times it's Money vs Time and has never wavered in her stance.
It is actually Crowns Vs Time that she has stated and that I included in my initial post.

And I am still in the Crowns portion of her statement, just offering an option that Players (Members and Crowns/Access) would actually use more often. If more people use it more often than what is offered now, that means more crowns would be spent. That is a plus for the company and also a plus for players.

Explorer
Feb 06, 2010
98
That's an awesome idea, and I agree too. There are spells I trained for back when I was a grandmaster and legendary (such as amplify and vengeance) which I don't use at all anymore and wish I could get those individual ones back to spend as I please. It would also be cool though, if you could buy back the training from individual spells you trained for which saves us the trouble of having to buy back the spells we want to keep.

Geographer
Nov 26, 2011
860
I agree with this. Many people train spells that they don't find useful at high levels and sometimes, its just 1 spell and they have to pay 10,000+ crowns for a do-over. It would probably have tons of people buying it, if I messed up a spell, I actually probably would. Wonderful idea!

Survivor
Oct 28, 2009
8
Good Idea! I would love this feature. I for one would definitely be spending more money on crowns. Please introduce this KingsIsle!

Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
i would love to see this!! When i was a lower levels and no idea what i was doing i trained up to storm shark in storm. There are other spells that i would rather have than those along some others here and there that i picked up else where. This would allow me to pick between using my birthday crowns on training points of stitching with that crown shop outfit i liked.

Scarlet Dragonpetal

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2272
Christo Deathgiver on Jul 24, 2013 wrote:
It is actually Crowns Vs Time that she has stated and that I included in my initial post.

And I am still in the Crowns portion of her statement, just offering an option that Players (Members and Crowns/Access) would actually use more often. If more people use it more often than what is offered now, that means more crowns would be spent. That is a plus for the company and also a plus for players.
yes, I understand that, but ultimately, it IS money vs Time. You can either spend real money to purchase crowns to buy back your spells, or start a new character. It's a very greed-oriented approach to take. I have no problem with them making money, we wouldnt be playing the game if they didn't, but this is just a gross (because I cant find a more fitting word) statement to make. It's a very cold and heartless approach to it. She'd be better off just saying, "This aspect will not change young wizard" vs "Pay us more and you can have this option", because that's how it sounds. This is coming from somebody who has a lot of experience working in the customer service end of jobs. You have to be careful how you say things in order not to alienate your customers, and the constant statements of "time vs money" shows the need for a better explanation.

Also, something we have to keep in mind is this:

The way the game will forever be made, is so that the odds are always stacked against us. In a more fair environment, we, the players, would beat the game way too easily (or at least that's the fear). Why else:

1) do bosses have multiple cheats?
2) Enemies start off with 14 pips?
3) They get new spells levels before we do?
4) They have spells we can't obtain?

and more? As much as this sounds like I'm complaining, I'm not. I'm stating facts of how the game is currently. The problem is, many of the suggestions we make would break the delicate balance of the idea of the game. They have a set idea how the game should work, and many of our changes would break that idea.

Survivor
Sep 01, 2011
16
dayerider on Jul 25, 2013 wrote:
yes, I understand that, but ultimately, it IS money vs Time. You can either spend real money to purchase crowns to buy back your spells, or start a new character. It's a very greed-oriented approach to take. I have no problem with them making money, we wouldnt be playing the game if they didn't, but this is just a gross (because I cant find a more fitting word) statement to make. It's a very cold and heartless approach to it. She'd be better off just saying, "This aspect will not change young wizard" vs "Pay us more and you can have this option", because that's how it sounds. This is coming from somebody who has a lot of experience working in the customer service end of jobs. You have to be careful how you say things in order not to alienate your customers, and the constant statements of "time vs money" shows the need for a better explanation.

Also, something we have to keep in mind is this:

The way the game will forever be made, is so that the odds are always stacked against us. In a more fair environment, we, the players, would beat the game way too easily (or at least that's the fear). Why else:

1) do bosses have multiple cheats?
2) Enemies start off with 14 pips?
3) They get new spells levels before we do?
4) They have spells we can't obtain?

and more? As much as this sounds like I'm complaining, I'm not. I'm stating facts of how the game is currently. The problem is, many of the suggestions we make would break the delicate balance of the idea of the game. They have a set idea how the game should work, and many of our changes would break that idea.
As far as the odd forever being stacked against us, I just don't see it that way. Since it is a strategy based game, having those odds stacked against us, is one of the only ways for us to learn how to learn and use good strategy. A fair environment, would just make the game too easy and most would just find another game that gave them that sense of accomplishment. But this is all off topic...

Back on Topic...
This suggestion is way for the Company to get more crowns spent than what they are currently getting on an in game feature. This falls right into your belief that the company is taking a greed-oriented approach. I am only looking for a mutually beneficial change to game as it exists.

- This option would be beneficial to the players - so they do not have to break the crowns bank to unlearn a spell that was at one time useful or was never meant to be trained.

- This option is beneficial to the company - Cause now players would be spending more crowns on a feature that they have not and would not spend their crowns on the "All or Nothing" state it is in now.

Just for reference, this topic is also being discussed on Wizard101's biggest fan site - Wizard101Central:
Training Point Buyback - School Specific

- Christo
The Assistance Specialists
Wizard101Central

Survivor
Jul 29, 2011
9
I like the idea of buying back points for spells in the reverse order that you trained them. So, if you wanted to untrain Phoenix, but you have Fire trained all the way to Helephant, then you have to untrain Helephant first before you can untrain Phoenix.

I am unwilling to spend the ridiculous 10,000s of crowns to buy back training points for my promethean wizards. However if I could choose to untrain 2-3 specific spells, I would totally pay a few hundred crowns to reset just those few spells. These are the spells I would choose to untrain:

- Phoenix on my balance wizard. I learned that spell back when there was no Samoorai or Savage Paw. I want to keep Fire Elf and Wyldfire for pvp, but if I could just unlearn Phoenix I would be very happy.
- Amplify on my balance wizard. It seemed like a good idea at the time; but now, after the introduction of the Azteca auras, Amplify is underpowered and outdated.
- Spirit Armor, Seraph and Satyr on my storm wizard. Sprite still comes in handy, but I regret sinking those extra 3 points into getting Satyr. I prefer using a non-mastery amulet these days and relying on Pixie or Healing Current for fast healing.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2272
As far as the odd forever being stacked against us, I just don't see it that way. Since it is a strategy based game, having those odds stacked against us, is one of the only ways for us to learn how to learn and use good strategy. A fair environment, would just make the game too easy and most would just find another game that gave them that sense of accomplishment.

I disagree. I think if they used the same type of leveling capacity as we used, with gear and spells, it could still be a chalenge. I will agree that part of those differences is what makes us learn and develop better tactics. KI has proven to us that the only way they can effectively beat our wizards is by making our opponents much stronger rather than more intelligent. A couple of SIMPLE checks in game coding could make the monsters much tougher, giving us the challenge, without having to give them 14 pips to our 4, 25,000 health to our 4,000. Two of these checks that would make the game challenging without overwhelming us, provided they redid how the monsters act are:

1) Is this a life monster? Yes. Give it heal spells to cast on itself and it's team. Thru Avalon, MOST monsters don't heal, EVER. If they healed as much as we needed to, it would make the battles that much more complex, trying to find the right mix, without overwhelming us with back to back storm lords.

2) Can this monster use blades? Yes. Is the monster its with utilize the same blade as the monster's school? No? Cast on self them. how many times are we thankful that a storm monster puts a storm blade on a fire monster? Eliminate that potential and it's a whole new game.

It's not about the game being overwhelming, it's HOW they choose to make it a "fair fight" that I take issue with. There are some monsters, that can't possibly have the spells they do if they used the same leveling and training point system we have to use.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2272
Christo Deathgiver on Jul 25, 2013 wrote:
As far as the odd forever being stacked against us, I just don't see it that way. Since it is a strategy based game, having those odds stacked against us, is one of the only ways for us to learn how to learn and use good strategy. A fair environment, would just make the game too easy and most would just find another game that gave them that sense of accomplishment. But this is all off topic...

Back on Topic...
This suggestion is way for the Company to get more crowns spent than what they are currently getting on an in game feature. This falls right into your belief that the company is taking a greed-oriented approach. I am only looking for a mutually beneficial change to game as it exists.

- This option would be beneficial to the players - so they do not have to break the crowns bank to unlearn a spell that was at one time useful or was never meant to be trained.

- This option is beneficial to the company - Cause now players would be spending more crowns on a feature that they have not and would not spend their crowns on the "All or Nothing" state it is in now.

Just for reference, this topic is also being discussed on Wizard101's biggest fan site - Wizard101Central:
Training Point Buyback - School Specific

- Christo
The Assistance Specialists
Wizard101Central
btw, I am all FOR allowing us to unlearn a school of spells rather than an all or nothing. I was merely stating from KI's POV, it won't happen, and because of the answers we've been given.

Delver
Dec 18, 2009
200
So True. I really wouldn't want to delete any of my people just because I made a mistake in their training points. Maybe just a few crowns to get back a few training points. Not all or nothing, because that is just too expensive.

Survivor
Sep 01, 2011
16
dayerider on Jul 25, 2013 wrote:
As far as the odd forever being stacked against us, I just don't see it that way. Since it is a strategy based game, having those odds stacked against us, is one of the only ways for us to learn how to learn and use good strategy. A fair environment, would just make the game too easy and most would just find another game that gave them that sense of accomplishment.

I disagree. I think if they used the same type of leveling capacity as we used, with gear and spells, it could still be a chalenge. I will agree that part of those differences is what makes us learn and develop better tactics. KI has proven to us that the only way they can effectively beat our wizards is by making our opponents much stronger rather than more intelligent. A couple of SIMPLE checks in game coding could make the monsters much tougher, giving us the challenge, without having to give them 14 pips to our 4, 25,000 health to our 4,000. Two of these checks that would make the game challenging without overwhelming us, provided they redid how the monsters act are:

1) Is this a life monster? Yes. Give it heal spells to cast on itself and it's team. Thru Avalon, MOST monsters don't heal, EVER. If they healed as much as we needed to, it would make the battles that much more complex, trying to find the right mix, without overwhelming us with back to back storm lords.

2) Can this monster use blades? Yes. Is the monster its with utilize the same blade as the monster's school? No? Cast on self them. how many times are we thankful that a storm monster puts a storm blade on a fire monster? Eliminate that potential and it's a whole new game.

It's not about the game being overwhelming, it's HOW they choose to make it a "fair fight" that I take issue with. There are some monsters, that can't possibly have the spells they do if they used the same leveling and training point system we have to use.
This is all completely off topic.... Have you had the chance to run the Winterbane Dungeon?? Please do so if you have not. They are working on the Artificial Intelligence with the minions and Bosses and are doing most of you have detailed in this post. So they are working on it, slower that we would like, but it is getting done.

Back on topic -
I love the idea of being able to buyback training points in reverse order that you trained them. I would not mind incorporating that into the school specific idea, but I think that KI would go for a complete school specific buyback and just training the spells you wanted to keep, over again. This keeps them in the black as far as how crowns are spent and, yes I am looking for a mutually beneficial option between the company and the player base since that is more likely what the company will buy into.

I want to take the time to thank you all for your comments in support of this idea. It is only with support from the gaming community that changes like this even get considered.

- Christo
The Assistance Specialists
Wizard101Central