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The Care and Feeding of Minions

AuthorMessage
Champion
May 03, 2011
447
As a myth wizard, I have lots of minions. Which I pretty much stopped using once I hit Celestia (except for the Golem, who is very Cheap Labor). I am doing well with my quick, minionless attacks on street Mobs, but I have been wondering about minions and their possible uses in longer boss battles. I've got lots of minion cards--Buff Minion, Siphon Health, Shield Minion. I've never used a single one of these. Not ever. :? Now I suspect that the number-crunchers at KI had something in mind with all these minion add-ons. But I have no idea how they can really aid my game. Has anyone used these? Do they make minions more useful at higher levels? Advice and/or anecdotes welcome! Thanks in advance. :-)

Tabitha

Adherent
May 20, 2010
2902
When I was level 18 to about level 30, I used my Sprite Guardian to help take some heat off of me and keep me healed. Other than that, I haven't seen much use for them. The Golem minion could be useful, since it costs no pips. It's a bit like a 100% Tower Shield if the enemy attacks it and not you, and it does cast some spells.

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
Besides trying talos twice and finding him useless, i haven't found any benefit to casting my minions past level 40. They just slow me down and take up valuable slots in my decks. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
tabby714 wrote:
As a myth wizard, I have lots of minions. Which I pretty much stopped using once I hit Celestia (except for the Golem, who is very Cheap Labor). I am doing well with my quick, minionless attacks on street Mobs, but I have been wondering about minions and their possible uses in longer boss battles. I've got lots of minion cards--Buff Minion, Siphon Health, Shield Minion. I've never used a single one of these. Not ever. :? Now I suspect that the number-crunchers at KI had something in mind with all these minion add-ons. But I have no idea how they can really aid my game. Has anyone used these? Do they make minions more useful at higher levels? Advice and/or anecdotes welcome! Thanks in advance. :-)

Tabitha


Well, I used the heck out of those spells in Marleybone and Mooshu, but I don't use them a lot anymore unless I'm going after a particular boss for which they are useful. At the higher levels, I tend to use my minions like convenient cannon fodder. Setting up your deck to effectively shield you, cast the appropriate minion, and use the toolkit for the minion can be tricky and highly situation specific. I suggest a special deck just for the minion toolkit and I highly advise that you utilize the side deck either for the minion toolkit spells, or for calling the minion itself (possibly with some tower shields as well to protect you while you are calling the minion). Do you have a specific scenario/boss for me to sink my teeth into on this one?

Delver
Apr 10, 2010
286
I quickly learned my minotaur minion was nothing but a waste of pips. He'd protect himself; heal himself; use my traps. My cyclops minion was more help. He'd heal me at times. But I quit using minions sometime during Mooshu. Tried talos and he wasn't much help; kept using my traps. :(

So, now, I go minionless. If I'm really in a tight spot, I hire a henchman.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
Do you have a specific scenario/boss for me to sink my teeth into on this one?
Well, mostly I have questions--but in more specific terms, I guess I'm looking for a boss strategy. Thanks to the advice I've gotten here, I now feel pretty good about my Myth in everyday Mob situations. She's quick and effective, thanks to better gear and the mighty frog-and-sun combo. But bosses are another matter--they have 4-8,000 health, and quick just doesn't work. So I was wondering if it would make any sense at all to re-think my minion use. I've mostly given up on them, like most people here. But I sense--suspect--intuit that there is more potential power there than I am using. Especially for the longer battles, where strategy really matters. If you do have a minion toolkit, how does it work, pip-wise and attack-wise? Do you set up your minion as a straw man ( :-) ) and then drain him when you need health? He's an AI, of course, so you can't be sure he's going to attack...does that make the "buff" spells a waste of time? Basically, I'm just trying to find a way to solo bosses without henchmen...I want to have, as much as possible, a self-sustaining game. Thanks for any advice...

Tabitha


Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
tabby714 wrote:
If you do have a minion toolkit, how does it work, pip-wise and attack-wise?


I know I promised a detailed guide when we spoke last night, but due to an unexpected time constraint today, I'm just going to have to go with a quick guide. :-D

In my opinion...

To use minions effectively is to be able to play as a great support player. It is entirely possible to put on heavy resist gear and then make your minions the blunt instrument with you boosting and shielding them. Off the top of my head, for instance, you can put on the global gear for ice (sold in the bazaar) to obtain very, very high global resist. The wintery veil, icestar outfit, and iced boots together will give you +37% resist. Accuracy and the other stats don't really matter all that much if you intend to play as a support person, just the resistance because you will be shielding, casting a minion, then defending and boosting that minion with the odd attack. The majority of the spells you'll be using are already 100% so living is really the only issue.

Bear in mind that one of the best aspects of the higher levels is that they use only their school spells for attack, so, you can boost that even farther if you intend to use your minion to deal the brunt of the damage. For instance, let's say you are facing a fire boss with a random minion. You could wear the Ember Helm, Brimstone Tunic, and Cinder striders which together will give you 72% resistance to fire. You'll obviously need to search the bazaar based on what you're up against (there are a LOT of options available) but I think you get the idea. You'll want an athame and ring that give you max health and heal boosting and I recommend the amulet with the +35% time of legend in it.

Since you know that you are not the one who will be dealing most of the damage, you'll want a myth specific deck so let's just say the "storied deck" which you can buy from the vendor in Celestia Base Camp. You'll want to visit the bazaar and buy plenty of buff minion and shield minion treasure cards. While I know that you can stack "buff minion" with the treasure version of "buff minion", I do not know if you can also stack the bartleby treasure version as well... You'll have to play with that on your own. You will want to load only buff minion and shield minion in your side deck, heavy on the shield minion. For instance, perhaps 8 buff minion (unless you can also stack the bartleby version on top of the regular treasure version in which case 5 of each), 1 reshuffle (just in case), and the rest shield minion.

In your main deck, you will want appropriate shields and/or tower shields, fortify, copies of your chosen minion (I'm using Talos), feint (if you have it), and other support cards. In my sample deck (assuming this fire boss in the example), I have:

5 tower shield
5 volcanic shield
4 pixie
2 time of legend
4 buff minion
2 cleanse ward
6 earthquake
1 medusa
7 mend minion
7 Talos
2 myth trap
3 myth blade
4 fortify
4 feint
4 spirit blade

The strategy will be to shield, possibly heal until you get a Talos card. Along the way, get a time of legend up when you can. You will want to feel comfortable with discarding on this so keep in mind that after you have the +35% time of legend up, the other copies are expendable and they are there only because a time of legend is better than no time of legend. Also considered expendable are spare fority, myth blade, myth trap, a few earthquakes, cleanse wards, spare talos cards (though you'll want a few in reserve, just in case), even a couple of pixies or mend minions.

Once you have Talos up, you'll want to shield, buff, and heal him while he does his thing, however that is appropriate each round. Don't forget you'll need to do discards and draws to pull 75% shields (use them liberally) and treasure buffs. Talos tends to go heavy on humungofrog but can earthquake and minotaur as well. The more blades you stack, the better. Make sure to keep him shielded and healthy, and stack as many blades as possible. Use earthquake to keep blades off the enemies, and should you have medusa come up, make sure to watch for the best opportunity to kick that off. This might go without saying, but this would need heavy modification for myth bosses.

Hope this helps...

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
In the time it takes you to cast talos and fully blade him, assuming he does exactly what you want him to, i could have already done 5000 points of damage without critical, or talos could do 1200 points. Just doesn't seem like an ideal trade in to me. Remember, minions don't get gear boosts and can't enchant their spells with sun spells! That's why they just can't compare and i can't justify using pips for them. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer

Hero
Jun 11, 2010
729
Being Balance, I have no advice for you whatsoever. But, here's what I do. For soloing bosses I always found it useful to summon my Mander Minion once I took out the bosses minion. The Mander Minion shields, and blades while you trap and attack, plus he has the occasional pip-giving and attack spells. I find him useful, and effective. Also a good back up plan for quick health. I tried to solo a Grizzleheim boss on my own, and failed miserabley. The next time I summoned my Mander, and defeated the boss easily. I don't know about you, but he (and Sap health) are staying in my deck for now.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
gtarhannon: thanks so much for the awesome and detailed reply! :-) I really appreciate your taking the time to put this all down in writing, giving me--and other wizards--the benefit of your incisive analytical approach to the game. I now have an awesome file with all the good advice I've gotten here, as a reference. On the "support player" approach: this is a way of playing I've never considered...it's kind of counter-intuitive, really, but compelling. I am going to give it a try when I've farmed enough gold to buy a bunch more gear (the GH house kind of set me back--all those recipes add up! :? ) and when I have sufficient confidence. It takes some to really turn your game inside-out like that--but given the low health of Myth, I think something like this just might be an effective approach to at least some boss battles. Plus, it's totally fun to try something new and inventive! I will let you know how it all turns out... :D

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
etherchaos wrote:
In the time it takes you to cast talos and fully blade him, assuming he does exactly what you want him to, i could have already done 5000 points of damage without critical, or talos could do 1200 points. Just doesn't seem like an ideal trade in to me. Remember, minions don't get gear boosts and can enchant their spells with sun spells! That's why they just can't compare and i can't justify using pips for them. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer


The whole point of my post was to illustrate another way of looking at the capabilities that Myth has. The "puppet master" approach that I have outlined assumed that you will be casting a time of legend, using buff minion and treasure buff minion, and occasionally spirit blade as well. Its entirely possible/probable that in the course of this, you could end up with the following boosts being applied:

Amulet Time of Legend +35%
Buff Minion +40%
Treasure Buff Minion +45%
Mythblade +35%
Spirit Blade +35%
Myth Trap +25%
Hex +30%
Feint +70%

Which would make the damage from a humongofrog on that target in the range of 3654 - 4481. Granted, that won't be all the time, but it doesn't preclude you attacking as well (because Talos does like to hex) and you won't be targeted when Talos hits for that damage. This may be a slower pace of battle, but it also means its more controlled with more options available to you.

In a more common scenario, Talos would cast humongofrog with:

Amulet Time of Legend +35%
Mythblade +35%
Buff Minion +40%
Treasure Buff Minion +45%

Which still yields damage in the range of 977 - 1199 which is respectable when you consider that you haven't used any pips in that process (aside from the initial cast of time of legend) so you have lots of spell options available to you. I would also like to remind you that Talos can cast several other spells, such as yellow troll, earthquake, and minotaur. Remember, the point of this approach is to run a marathon, not sprint to the end. It is intended for bosses for whom you can't simply hack and slash with 2 to 3 gargantuan humongofrogs and some blades. Realistically... I tend to go with a more hybrid solution for myself, but on my son's myth where he hasn't necessarily built the wizard the way I would like, doesn't have some of the gear I want, etc, I have used this method to beat key bosses for him.

Bottom line is, the point of my post was to illustrate how minions can be useful besides as simple cannon fodder even if my example was a bit extreme.

Survivor
Dec 14, 2008
9
I was saved twice before by using Draw Health to sacrifice my minion for 350 health. At 1 pip, it really is a useful alternative to Pixie (that is, of course, only the case if you already have a minion). Also, I was once aided in battle greatly by sacrificing my minion for 4 pips (I can't recall the name of the spell at the time). So, yes, I use those spells.

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
Gtarhannon, i do understand what you're purpose is, because the OP did actually request it and i do highly respect the intelligence you bring to the forums in this and other posts. I just personally find that minions are inefficient at high levels and only meant to state my reasons why. The setup you posted is intrigueing and would possibly be interesting to try sometime, but i wouldn't rely on my minion for any serious battle beyond mooshu. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
etherchaos wrote:
Gtarhannon, i do understand what you're purpose is, because the OP did actually request it and i do highly respect the intelligence you bring to the forums in this and other posts. I just personally find that minions are inefficient at high levels and only meant to state my reasons why. The setup you posted is intrigueing and would possibly be interesting to try sometime, but i wouldn't rely on my minion for any serious battle beyond mooshu. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer


I hope you didn't take the tone of my previous post in a negative way (it wasn't meant to chastise or argue, just to clarify), I just didn't think I had been clear enough on my post previous to that. I do get where you're coming from now (and I appreciate the kudos. :D), and I completely acknowledge that play style takes a huge role in how one sees different spells. I just personally disagree with the idea that minions are inefficient at higher levels, particularly on bosses over the 4000 health threshold. Feel free to take or leave what I'm about to tell you since it really depends on your point of view as to whether or not its useful. But... I evaluate every spells in terms of pip cost vs. benefit. If I can cast a spell, such as talos, that will typically take 3 pip slots (2 power pips and a pip) at higher levels, he is completely worth the expenditure if he gets off a humungofrog, gives me some extra boosts (hex or mythblade), perhaps stuns an enemy or two, and then takes a hit or two for me. Think about the value you just received for 5 pips. Now yes, if you can quick kill them in a few rounds, its silly to waste those pips but on longer battles, there is real merit to minions.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
tabby714 wrote:
I think something like this just might be an effective approach to at least some boss battles.


Hey again, just thought I'd give you another more "hybrid" solution that I tested the other night. With this solution, you would keep the advanced gear I know you have already crafted. I tried it out on an ice troll boss in Wintertusk just to verify it works the way I thought it would. It was a lot of fun to use. :-D Here's the deck config:

Storied Deck
------------
5 Tower Shield
5 Gargantuan
2 Pixie
3 Sprite
1 Blinding Light
4 Buff Minion
3 Cleanse Ward
4 Earthquake
2 Medusa
4 Mend Minion
7 Talos
4 Mythblade
1 Shield Minion
4 Stun
3 Fortify
4 Feint
4 Spirit Blade
--------
SideDeck
--------
3 TC Buff Minion + 45%
3 Bartleby Buff Minion + 50%
3 Marvelous Minions Buff Minion + 45%
16 TC Shield Minion

Once you get the minion up, there can be a lot of discarding while you stack shield minion cards on your minion. Keep in mind that more of the same kind of card is better while he's fighting multiple enemies and only double stack (regular and treasure) when the boss has a lot of pips. Watch each round for one card that you can discard. Also, I tested out stacking the different kind of TC Buff Minion cards and I'm super pleased to say... it works. :-D When you already have Time of Legend up and you have managed to put 3 types of TC Buff Minion and a regular buff minion on him before he casts minotaur against an enemy myth boosts on, its a beautiful thing. It was damage in the range of 5000ish. LOL The best part was having plenty of pips left afterward. Now, to be honest, that will rarely happen because Talos doesn't cast minotaur very often, nor is there often enough rounds in between his attacks to stack more than 2 or 3 buffs (in addition to his own mythblade), but he generally blades you once in a while and since you haven't compromised your gear for this strategy, you are in a position to lay down some real damage of your own in between his volleys.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
When you already have Time of Legend up and you have managed to put 3 types of TC Buff Minion and a regular buff minion on him before he casts minotaur against an enemy myth boosts on, its a beautiful thing. It was damage in the range of 5000ish.

That is impressive! Now to follow up your detailed and succinct exposition with a totally stupid question: what are the "Bartleby Buff Minion" and "Marvelous Minions" cards? Are these crafted? I haven't heard of them before. Once I get the cards together I am definitely going to try this out, though. I never ever use Talos. It would be cool to bring him in off the bench, as it were. :-) Thanks, as always...I'll let you know how I do!

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
tabby714 wrote:
When you already have Time of Legend up and you have managed to put 3 types of TC Buff Minion and a regular buff minion on him before he casts minotaur against an enemy myth boosts on, its a beautiful thing. It was damage in the range of 5000ish.

That is impressive! Now to follow up your detailed and succinct exposition with a totally stupid question: what are the "Bartleby Buff Minion" and "Marvelous Minions" cards? Are these crafted? I haven't heard of them before. Once I get the cards together I am definitely going to try this out, though. I never ever use Talos. It would be cool to bring him in off the bench, as it were. :-) Thanks, as always...I'll let you know how I do!


You can buy both of these buff minion cards at the bazaar. There is a column between cost and rank titled "set" and if there is a symbol there, it means that the card came from one of the virtual card "packs" that KI sells in the crowns shop. Looking at the card itself, you'll see the symbol on the center left of the card between the accuracy and the pip cost. The one that looks like the head of your golem minion with a hat is the "marvelous minions" pack. The one that looks like a guy with a weird nose is (on closer examination) supposed to be a tree with eyes in it representing the "eye of bartleby" pack. Apparently, being from a different "set" is enough to allow these cards to "stack" with each other for big damage.

I have had a lot of fun with this above posted strategy. It does still occasionally suffer, however, because even with 7 copies of Talos, sometimes he still doesn't want to come up for several rounds. Its ok and all... cause I accounted for that by still have a decent amount of buff and attack options for myself as well, but, I find it annoying. :D I have a solution to the problem which I'll try out, but, I have to earn another training point to give it a whirl. I'll keep you posted when I do. ;)

Hero
May 02, 2009
787
tabby714 wrote:
When you already have Time of Legend up and you have managed to put 3 types of TC Buff Minion and a regular buff minion on him before he casts minotaur against an enemy myth boosts on, its a beautiful thing. It was damage in the range of 5000ish.

That is impressive! Now to follow up your detailed and succinct exposition with a totally stupid question: what are the "Bartleby Buff Minion" and "Marvelous Minions" cards? Are these crafted? I haven't heard of them before. Once I get the cards together I am definitely going to try this out, though. I never ever use Talos. It would be cool to bring him in off the bench, as it were. :-) Thanks, as always...I'll let you know how I do!

He means the cards you can get from the eye of bartleby and marevelous minions booster/card packs in the crowns shop and sometimes even the bazaar.
I've always found minions helpful, and I personally try to work WITH my minion instead of against them.
I will agree with gtarhannon that there's no point in summoning a minion if you don't think their gonna be that helpful (like in shorter fights), but if you actually learn how your minion(s) work, then you'll see how much helpful they can actually be (believe it or not, not all minions are made to just dish out damage (if the water elemental, minotaur and some of the death minions weren't proof enough)).

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
So, its been a while since the last time I posted on this thread. I have been extremely busy as of late, but, I did say I would report back on the use of a minion in Celestia. I can safely say that I used this strategy to generally sail through most of Celestia. It does require patience so if you don't have any, it isn't for you. The only boss in Celestia that gave me any trouble at all was Glauco and that was mostly because of his cohort, the Angler Warlord. Still, once I started using my myth nullifying abilities against Glauco, even that wasn't a huge deal. At any rate, here it is:

Storied Deck
------------
5 Tower Shield
3 Gargantuan
5 Pixie
2 Sprite
2 Blinding Light
4 Buff Minion
2 Cleanse Ward
2 Medusa
3 Mend Minion
6 Talos
2 Minotaur
2 Myth Trap
2 Mythblade
3 Pierce
1 Shatter
4 Shield Minion
2 Stun
3 Fortify
3 Feint
1 Reshuffle
3 Spirit Blade
--------
SideDeck
--------
1 +35% Time of Legend
1 Buff Minion + 45%
1 Bartleby Buff Minion + 50%
1 Marvelous Minions Buff Minion + 45%
1 Gargantuan Earthquake
11 Shield Minion

This is a generic deck which can be tweaked for the opponent you are facing. In general, you want to cast Talos as soon as possible and here's how it works:

Each round, look at your cards and see if you have a Talos. If you do not, try to find one useful defensive spell to cast on yourself and discard the rest EXCEPT reshuffle. Do NOT discard reshuffle. As soon as you have Talos, cast him. From now on, you have to follow your minion's lead. Watch what he's doing. If he is attacking, make sure to shield him for the retaliation. If he isn't attacking, then keep shielding yourself until he does since the opponents will not shift focus until he begins hitting them. If you had to do heavy discarding to get Talos, you will want to continue to shield yourself or talos until your reshuffle comes up. Make certain that you keep Talos protected (that's the point of the shield minion treasure cards, so that you can generally keep the enemy at bay) on your way to reshuffling. After that, you pretty much just keep following Talos' lead and attacking with him once in a while. You'll find that keeping him shielded and buffed consumes much of your time anyway.

The bottom line here is that this strategy is very effective for soloing. The opponents will stay primarily focused on Talos while you keep him healthy, protected, and buffed. You will then have plenty of pips for the odd finishing move, or to heal off damage you incurred on your way to casting Talos in the first place. Make certain to keep a spare Talos just in case they kill him off. It doesn't happen a lot if you pay attention, but it does happen from time to time. After all, he is only a 5 pip spell...

Happy minioning...