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Team Up Kiosk Possible Solution :)

1
AuthorMessage
Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2102
Hi Everyone!

I love the new make a wish addition for the team up kiosk. I've enjoyed using the kiosk to help others since it arrived and think this addition is brilliant for encouraging people to help lower level wizards who are struggling a bit.

I've noticed a little problem where some high levels go in and kill before the person who requested help is even in the battle ring. Some people are so focussed on getting their credit for helping they're forgetting to actually help!

A possible solution could be to make anyone who teamed up from the sigil have a different coloured name so they are easy to identify. Collection of the credit for helping is only added if those people are in each battle, no credit if they are left behind. If the person from the sigil leaves the dungeon, so does the need for them to be in battle but while they are there I think we should only be able to collect for helping if we have actually helped them.

I love the update for the kiosk and hope you don't mind me sharing my idea so little wizards don't get left behind. Let me know what you all think or if you have any other potential solutions.

Armiger
Jan 18, 2010
2003
There's some potential here.

As you said, often times (especially in the lower level boss instances and dungeons such as those in Wizard City), battles are instantly begun and completed with the person requesting the help still at the doorway.
That's not cool.
As wizards, we should be a little more patient and keen to those around us.

As such, I support your idea. Even though we may be able to guess who the one is requesting the aid, credit should be given when that person is able to get the help he/she needs (in the battle when the boss is defeated etc) and not whether or not the person is ready.


Illuminator
Mar 31, 2009
1271
That's a pretty good idea. Only players that entered the sigil can activate the battle? That would be a good idea. Perhaps we could all be faded until they go in? (You know like immediately after a battle?)

Perhaps to also stop "farmers" and to encourage people to help in places other than Wizard City. The higher worlds could be worth like more points or something? Or even have it so each battle within a dungeon counts (so if we do Waterworks, each fight counts as a team helped instead of just one team helped).

What do you think?

Geographer
Mar 16, 2012
879
Victoria FireHeart on Dec 1, 2017 wrote:
Hi Everyone!

I love the new make a wish addition for the team up kiosk. I've enjoyed using the kiosk to help others since it arrived and think this addition is brilliant for encouraging people to help lower level wizards who are struggling a bit.

I've noticed a little problem where some high levels go in and kill before the person who requested help is even in the battle ring. Some people are so focussed on getting their credit for helping they're forgetting to actually help!

A possible solution could be to make anyone who teamed up from the sigil have a different coloured name so they are easy to identify. Collection of the credit for helping is only added if those people are in each battle, no credit if they are left behind. If the person from the sigil leaves the dungeon, so does the need for them to be in battle but while they are there I think we should only be able to collect for helping if we have actually helped them.

I love the update for the kiosk and hope you don't mind me sharing my idea so little wizards don't get left behind. Let me know what you all think or if you have any other potential solutions.
Simply waiting for everyone to get into the battle circle would solve this problem. Unfortunately, there are some players who just don't care about the wizard asking for help - they're there for one thing, to get the credit for "helping", get the badge so they can buy the stuff.
It's similar to what's happening in Pirate101. Players there are doing the basic very low level dungeons, in and out in less than 5 minutes. Our reward for a certain number of runs is a badge that grants a particle effect ( we get a halo ).
Now, I don't care how others are using ( or abusing ) the Team-Up Kiosk. I intend to go help as and when I can, where ever I'm needed, It'll take a while but I'll get that badge eventually.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
I've had to ask others to please wait until everyone is active in the battle circle before they kill. Most people know it but some don't know it or don't care.

That's only when I'm in first spot because first spot should be considered the captain if there is one at all, in my opinion.

It's basic courtesy but sometimes you can't "teach" that.

Delver
Mar 29, 2012
235
I really like the idea of harder dungeons and higher levels being worth more. Before this update I almost exclusively teamed up to help with Darkmoor and end of world bosses as my wizards are all maxed with my idea of perfect gear. I wasnt trying to stack up numbers, I was just helping. Therefore, I only had about 180 instances when the rewards system dropped. Now, in order to receive the rewards which my wizards certainly deserve I am forced to team up for quick low level things and stack up meaningless numbers. It would be great if I could go back to helping with the truly difficult things that may actually require my assistance and still make fair progress towards those rewards. Otherwise, I won't be actually helping again until I finish stacking up those numbers....
Amber

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1842
I talked about this issue in a different thread. A lot of high levels are storming through the lowest worlds and the one who needed help is sometimes being left out completely. No one should get credit for "helping," if the guy who asked for the team-up in the first place didn't even end up in the battle ring!

Another potential solution is requiring wizards to help at more appropriate levels if they want to get credit for the Team Up badge. Example, people decked out in Darkmoor gear don't get credit if they slouch along in Krokotopia; let the level 25s help there. Instead, end level wizards should be helping in Azteca, Khrysalis, Polaris, Mirage, etc.

I also agree with Exp613, that taking on long dungeons and sticking with it through to the end should net extra credit of some kind. Like, special badges and special gear, because this is a huge commitment of time. It also takes dedication and patience to stay the course when it turns out the wizard you're helping is menu-chat, plus their skill level is ... not great.

Alia Misthaven

Illuminator
Mar 31, 2009
1271
I was a little aggravated when this happened twice within five minutes to me in two different spots.

Four of us go to battle Biti Nirini in Krokotopia. The person who requested the team up and I were too slow and only the first two got in. We asked the guy to wait, but nope- he's there for his badge.... So I friended the guy and helped him out by going in the door with him. You heard me I went in the door with him, because I had to wait 10 minutes to join another team up!!! (I told him I would join his team up via the kiosk, but I found that little surprise so we did it the old fashioned way.)

There was another time that two of us made it in me and a fire. All three of us told him, please wait for everyone-but again nope... As I said to him in the moment "not cool man"

I so wanted to report them but you can't report people for just being jerks....

On a different note:

I'm trying to collect animus on my Myth Wizard (so all I need to do is hit it once) but these maxes are one shot killing before I even join (though the animus issue isn't quite as irritating as it would be if I was questing).


Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
I just wanna say thank you to all team up helpers, especially those who help with the very very hard bosses or dungeons.

Some of us would be stuck 'forever' without your help.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
exp613 on Dec 3, 2017 wrote:
I was a little aggravated when this happened twice within five minutes to me in two different spots.

Four of us go to battle Biti Nirini in Krokotopia. The person who requested the team up and I were too slow and only the first two got in. We asked the guy to wait, but nope- he's there for his badge.... So I friended the guy and helped him out by going in the door with him. You heard me I went in the door with him, because I had to wait 10 minutes to join another team up!!! (I told him I would join his team up via the kiosk, but I found that little surprise so we did it the old fashioned way.)

There was another time that two of us made it in me and a fire. All three of us told him, please wait for everyone-but again nope... As I said to him in the moment "not cool man"

I so wanted to report them but you can't report people for just being jerks....

On a different note:

I'm trying to collect animus on my Myth Wizard (so all I need to do is hit it once) but these maxes are one shot killing before I even join (though the animus issue isn't quite as irritating as it would be if I was questing).

If it's in a dungeon then, to my understanding (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) one player could conceivably do all the fighting while the others stand around and everyone would still get the quest fulfilled.

If they left the dungeon then no, but if they are in it, then yes. That's how I understand it anyway.

Sometimes that is good because some players get into street mobs on purpose or accidentally and if everyone had to help and/or wait until all that was over with, the dungeon could triple in time spent.

Then there are times you answer a dungeon team up and the other players never move. So, you can go ahead and complete it, and then leave without a penalty, or you can flee with a penalty attached.
So those are some possible 'innocent' reasons people might battle alone in dungeons. I'm not saying that is what happened in your case.

I don't remember if Biti Nirini is a single battle or a dungeon. Definitely everyone should wait for everyone to be active in a battle circle before killing the enemy. I learned my lesson about even hitting because I used a group attack (after no one was moving, and I thought they went away from keyboard) and it went critical. Just as it hit, everyone moved into the circle. Oops. I did apologize...and from then on I only used a wand or a non hit item.

Illuminator
Mar 31, 2009
1271
SparkleTude on Dec 3, 2017 wrote:
If it's in a dungeon then, to my understanding (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) one player could conceivably do all the fighting while the others stand around and everyone would still get the quest fulfilled.

If they left the dungeon then no, but if they are in it, then yes. That's how I understand it anyway.

Sometimes that is good because some players get into street mobs on purpose or accidentally and if everyone had to help and/or wait until all that was over with, the dungeon could triple in time spent.

Then there are times you answer a dungeon team up and the other players never move. So, you can go ahead and complete it, and then leave without a penalty, or you can flee with a penalty attached.
So those are some possible 'innocent' reasons people might battle alone in dungeons. I'm not saying that is what happened in your case.

I don't remember if Biti Nirini is a single battle or a dungeon. Definitely everyone should wait for everyone to be active in a battle circle before killing the enemy. I learned my lesson about even hitting because I used a group attack (after no one was moving, and I thought they went away from keyboard) and it went critical. Just as it hit, everyone moved into the circle. Oops. I did apologize...and from then on I only used a wand or a non hit item.
I know what you're talking about. To answer your question: no, Biti Nirini is not like that. The dungeons that are longer tend to be that way (have multiple fights etc.) however if the quest is "Defeat X" and you aren't in the battle when it is defeated then you don't get credit as was the case in that situation.

As far as my character, I'm sure the game thought my slowness was that I had left early without helping. Which isn't true as I was just late to the battle. Which I also think as odd because the boss was defeated and the other two that were in the battle had left before I did? So I was the 3rd person to leave?

Not sure, but I assume that KI is listening and it will be addressed in a future update. Just hopefully sooner rather than later!

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
exp613 on Dec 4, 2017 wrote:
I know what you're talking about. To answer your question: no, Biti Nirini is not like that. The dungeons that are longer tend to be that way (have multiple fights etc.) however if the quest is "Defeat X" and you aren't in the battle when it is defeated then you don't get credit as was the case in that situation.

As far as my character, I'm sure the game thought my slowness was that I had left early without helping. Which isn't true as I was just late to the battle. Which I also think as odd because the boss was defeated and the other two that were in the battle had left before I did? So I was the 3rd person to leave?

Not sure, but I assume that KI is listening and it will be addressed in a future update. Just hopefully sooner rather than later!
Thanks and you helped crack a long time mystery.
I once was penalized when I had not left.

But the person in first spot was so fast that even though I didn't dawdle, just didn't race as fast, I wasn't in the battle circle. They hit and it went critical and boom they left.

So yeah that seems unfair to those who were present but didn't get to play.

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2102
The only issue I have is people 'helping' but the requester/s (those at the sigil) being left behind.

Even if the dungeon can be completed and credit awarded there is no fun in asking for help but not being able to do the battle. They also miss out on drops, which isn't okay imo.

I think I over complicated it with the names being different coloured suggestion. Trying to look for sigil people when everyone's running off isn't effective. Perhaps use a similar system as the housing games where we're told how many people there are in the dungeon who joined by sigil and let it reduce if any leave?

I'm not sure about higher dungeons getting more credits just because it would have to be only gained at the point the requester completes...otherwise we'd have Darkmoor Graveyard farming of Yevgeny gaining a point when the sigil person needs Malistaire, or Waterworks gaining multiple points even if they abandon after Luska and the sigil wizard needs to complete. Perhaps encouraging people to do higher dungeons could be achieved by making items for sale require X number from specific groups of worlds?

I'd be disappointed if high levels couldn't do lower level dungeons and get credit because I love helping with lower level stuff like Mount Olympus and WaterWorks etc even though I have a max life. It's really fun to boost a low level and be safe in the knowledge they can't die or if they fizz it's okay. They also love it when they hit for more than they have ever even seen before :)

I wish people would just wait and help. They either just get so focused on what they want to achieve or they don't know how much fun helping can be. Either way it would only take for them to fail to get credit once for them to slow down a little while the sigil user/s load, listen to the story and prep their deck :) It's really not long and meeting lower levels, encouraging them and helping them on their journey can be one of the most fun-rewarding things in game :)

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1842
"I'm not sure about higher dungeons getting more credits just because it would have to be only gained at the point the requester completes...otherwise we'd have Darkmoor Graveyard farming of Yevgeny gaining a point when the sigil person needs Malistaire, or Waterworks gaining multiple points even if they abandon after Luska and the sigil wizard needs to complete. Perhaps encouraging people to do higher dungeons could be achieved by making items for sale require X number from specific groups of worlds?"

But this is exactly what I was talking about. Giving out 'extra credit' for the entire dungeon will hopefully encourage badge hunters to stay and help others get through the whole thing. The large, complicated dungeons are difficult and time consuming, and that challenge (aggravation?) is compounded when trying to assist an inexperienced wizard through those cheating battles.

Or someone with menu chat, and you can't even tell them what they're doing wrong.

People will always take the easier route unless there is a strong incentive to take on a challenge. The easier route is not to help people through Darkmoor or Waterworks when Foulgaze and other low level bosses are available. What I was suggesting, is that a level 80-120 wizard should get more credit for helping someone complete Waterworks all the way through, than they get for helping a single battle in Wizard City or Krokotopia.

Alia Misthaven

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
i had this happen recently. i joined team up for nidavellir with my baby fire wizard (who's level 42) and ended up with 2 max levels who not only started the battle without me but used darkmoor spells to kill almost everything before i even had a chance to get a shot off.

(i needed to fix my deck and said 'hang on', but they ignored me.)

i love helping out in lower-level instances because it's a nice break from the drudgery of cheat instance after cheat instance at the higher levels. but, when i am assisting lower-level wizards, i play a support-only deck with buffs, shields, heals, etc. for the others on my team and don't do any actual hitting unless i am specifically asked to.

that said, if not for team up, i'd have been (as sparkletude put it) stuck forever, so it definitely has its uses. but, for the love of all things sacred, let the person who actually has the quest participate in the battle.

i'm all for giving extra credit once a dungeon is completed; as freshta mentioned, these instances are painfully long and time-consuming, hence we need to discourage people from (rage) quitting, as is bound to happen with stuff like darkmoor and medulla.

-von

Armiger
Jan 18, 2010
2003
I remembered entering a team up instance in Wintertusk (I believe it was Nastrond) and while we steadily progressed until the final instance, the person who originally requested the help kindly asked if we could wait on him while he tweaked his deck for a minute.

Turns out, the remaining two maxes went on ahead and quickly dispatched the bosses with a series of critical AoE's. I tried to plead with them to wait until the "requestee" was ready, but no, they instead ignored and powered through the battle and left.

As a result, even though this was a dungeon and credit is usually assigned to everyone inside the dungeon, the requestee was still left with the same quest "to defeat the bosses." His quest line didn't change and the so called "helpers" didn't care. They ported out and left on their merry way.

This of course came at a huge shock to the requestee and she was dumbfounded at what had just taken place to the point of questioning why persons "have to be like that."

I went in and did the dungeon over with her, that of course cheered her up some, but our time in the origin was wasted and we all know time waits on no man.

So, for dungeons, I believe that the requestee still needs to be actively involved in battles of the dungeon and time exercised for them to talk or interact with NPC's, especially if it is their first time going through the dungeon.

It's getting to the point where it seems like this is a form of bullying.


Historian
Jun 17, 2014
671
so a round up of everything that needs to be done
  • Reward doing it by the fight, do countless fights like Big Ben, you'll rack up points
  • You only get a reward after say 5-10 minutes, so it's not round 1 dead (and it'll be the time to do another team up anyway
  • Everyone who came into the dungeon via the Kiosk, has a faded character, and can't enter the battle until the other person does,except in long dungeon instances like Crimson Fields, or Kensington Park, where you're not penalized for not being in the fight
  • Slow down, this entire system was made to help people, if they dont get the quest done, you shouldnt be rewarded for it

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1842
"Slow down, this entire system was made to help people, if they dont get the quest done, you shouldnt be rewarded for it."

I think this sums it up.

Hopefully KingsIsle is listening. Seriously. If the person who requested help doesn't get credit, no one else does either.

Alia Misthaven

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
Sometimes the quester wants it just over with asap and that's kind of how I am with the super super super difficult i.e. impossible for me to complete any other way battles such as end of Mirage. I wish I could think of the other one.

Oh and I can't seem to complete part 3 of Darkmoor on my own either. I'm still a newbie really despite being max. Kind of embarrassing. I don't have a whole lot of strategy. I'm always learning though or trying to.

But for sure wait until everyone is in the circle. And if possible it's very kind to ask whose quest it is and how they would prefer you to play: hit or shield/heal?

I've done that and the thing is though that sometimes I wind up with egg on my face a bit. Some are very puzzled why I am asking and say "just get it over with," or "I don't care," or no answer at all. Sometimes they answer just as the thirty second timer gives out and their answer is the opposite of whatever I just chose. Lol Or I pass and they say hit. Or I hit and they say pass. Lol

So now for the smaller battles I don't always ask but I might 'stall' a bit just to see how the person is playing. If they pass or don't really participate I go ahead and 'get it over with asap' as I figure they might be in that category. If they are doing all they can then I either hang back and shield/guard/heal or ask them what they prefer.

In the longer dungeons I try to hang back and ask people to friend me up and so on but sometimes they run ahead or are kind of snarky or whatever, it's a total gambit each time really. And sometimes I hate to say but I'm not feeling well or am in a big hurry myself and so I tend to just move through it quickly.

All I can say is I try my best to be a fair and team player but the interesting thing about team up is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're gonna get.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
Star Edward on Dec 7, 2017 wrote:
I remembered entering a team up instance in Wintertusk (I believe it was Nastrond) and while we steadily progressed until the final instance, the person who originally requested the help kindly asked if we could wait on him while he tweaked his deck for a minute.

Turns out, the remaining two maxes went on ahead and quickly dispatched the bosses with a series of critical AoE's. I tried to plead with them to wait until the "requestee" was ready, but no, they instead ignored and powered through the battle and left.

As a result, even though this was a dungeon and credit is usually assigned to everyone inside the dungeon, the requestee was still left with the same quest "to defeat the bosses." His quest line didn't change and the so called "helpers" didn't care. They ported out and left on their merry way.

This of course came at a huge shock to the requestee and she was dumbfounded at what had just taken place to the point of questioning why persons "have to be like that."

I went in and did the dungeon over with her, that of course cheered her up some, but our time in the origin was wasted and we all know time waits on no man.

So, for dungeons, I believe that the requestee still needs to be actively involved in battles of the dungeon and time exercised for them to talk or interact with NPC's, especially if it is their first time going through the dungeon.

It's getting to the point where it seems like this is a form of bullying.

Oh! One of my wiz replied to a team up because I forgot I have to talk to the new NPC first for the team up call to count in that NPC quest.
By then only harder ones were left (I was short on time) so I answered that one. When I got there I ran (single battle) up because otherwise sometimes the quester will and then get killed as first spot takes the most damage.

Then I typically try to ask whose quest it is and what they prefer I do.

This time I turned around -- single room single battle -- and although two were standing there when I first arrived, soon as the camera turned -- and all I had done was shield btw -- they were both gone.

It was a battle I didn't need as I am waiting to do Grizzleheim for when I get to really hard worlds and want a fun break...it was a Grizzle boss and a bit ahead of me but thought I'd help someone out. So I had to finish that on my own. Kind of a bummer. So people please do not flee team ups for any reason except an emergency. Even if someone runs into the first spot it might be so they can take all the damage and protect you.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
camahawk on Dec 7, 2017 wrote:
so a round up of everything that needs to be done
  • Reward doing it by the fight, do countless fights like Big Ben, you'll rack up points
  • You only get a reward after say 5-10 minutes, so it's not round 1 dead (and it'll be the time to do another team up anyway
  • Everyone who came into the dungeon via the Kiosk, has a faded character, and can't enter the battle until the other person does,except in long dungeon instances like Crimson Fields, or Kensington Park, where you're not penalized for not being in the fight
  • Slow down, this entire system was made to help people, if they dont get the quest done, you shouldnt be rewarded for it
I don't like penalizing or slowing people down who are helping.

I will play any way the quester wants me to. No problem at all. But making me add 5-10 minutes to every battle or greying me out so I have to be in last spot, making it fruitless for me to show up at all, seems counter productive and aimed at discouraging team ups to be answered.

I'm not sure what the answer is but penalizing and adding time to everyone doesn't seem a good fix.

To be honest even the 2 full minutes waiting on a team up in most cases, often finding no one there when I arrive, or people who won't move (which means our only choice if we can't finish the battle until they join, would be to flee and again, be penalized unfairly) seems a long time. Adding 5-10 minutes per battle would ensure I would do team up only when extremely bored.
Just my opinion!

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1443
Just wanted to add: for any who find it very difficult to find good team up partners or quest partners, the other message board (Wizard Central) has a help forum. Their 'mercenary forums' seem to be shut down for new requests but the help forums are not. So that might be more fruitful sometimes than trying the pot luck of the team up kiosk. Good luck to all.

Historian
Jun 17, 2014
671
SparkleTude on Dec 7, 2017 wrote:
I don't like penalizing or slowing people down who are helping.

I will play any way the quester wants me to. No problem at all. But making me add 5-10 minutes to every battle or greying me out so I have to be in last spot, making it fruitless for me to show up at all, seems counter productive and aimed at discouraging team ups to be answered.

I'm not sure what the answer is but penalizing and adding time to everyone doesn't seem a good fix.

To be honest even the 2 full minutes waiting on a team up in most cases, often finding no one there when I arrive, or people who won't move (which means our only choice if we can't finish the battle until they join, would be to flee and again, be penalized unfairly) seems a long time. Adding 5-10 minutes per battle would ensure I would do team up only when extremely bored.
Just my opinion!
The 5-10 minute is moreso so people don't spam Wizardcity.. and usually people who are in Marleybone ↓ would take average 5-10 minutes.... Same as a guy in Polaris helping Azteca... And if you flee you already have to wait 5-10 minutes... Way I meant it was... If it's a walk in round 1 walk out.... You didn't help them....

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
968
Let me see if I'm following everyone correctly.

Those of us posting do not fall into one of the Big Three Inappropriate Helpers (Badge Hunters, Inconsiderate Farmers, and Spoil Everyone's Fun Sid).

We all want to help but have no concrete ideas on how to "fix" the problems.

So.......

How about this as an idea? I have a special colored hat that I wear when I go to meet other "older" Wizards in Greyrose. I have a special colored hat I wear when I go to attempt to PvP with other "Shirkers".

Could we as a group of committed, dedicated helpers wear a special colored hat stitched to a duplicate of a good piece of gear (so we don't lose combat effectiveness). Then let it be known throughout the Spiral, that if you see a Red Hat (random color pulled from the top of my head) on your team, this wizard has vowed to stay with you to the end of the fight.

Just a suggestion

Steven Ghoststalker
83

Survivor
Jul 14, 2009
15
Bumping this thread because a week has passed and the problem has increased. As I am currently not questing, I attempted to help throuth the "help kiosk". Max or close to max players abused the system by finishing fights without actually helping the requestee that needed the fight for their quest. In the actual quest they normally have to click through a dialouge before they can move.
The solution to this could be many options for KingsIsle, but anything that slows down gameplay for the "helpers" would cause them to rant. Eventually they will get their badges and go away, leaving real helpers left to assist the lower level players that need the help.

Looks like i will wait a bit before useing the Teamup kiosk to help other players. Hope it is corrected or clear of abusers by then.

1