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Storm spell that hurts opponent's pips

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
No, you can't "have it all." I just think other schools get too much. Pips, that is.

Storm should have a Storm-only spell that either 1) reduces an enemy's power pip rate by 25%, or 2) temporarily increases the cost of opponent spells by 1 pip each. This effect shouldn't last forever, but 4 rounds seems fair.

This makes sense both thematically and practically. Thematically, storms are powerful and can delay plans. Practically, as a Storm, you cannot attack and shield and heal, since you simply won't have time or pips to do them all. Slowing the opponent down gives you more room to maneuver.

Secondary benefit: if Storm wizard has more time to shield or heal, it makes less pressure to Wild Bolt every turn, where the objective is simply to end your opponent or at least scare them into being defensive.

Delver
Dec 30, 2012
291
I second this, although I say three rounds is a better compromise.

Hero
Nov 14, 2010
763
Lucas Rain on Oct 14, 2013 wrote:
No, you can't "have it all." I just think other schools get too much. Pips, that is.

Storm should have a Storm-only spell that either 1) reduces an enemy's power pip rate by 25%, or 2) temporarily increases the cost of opponent spells by 1 pip each. This effect shouldn't last forever, but 4 rounds seems fair.

This makes sense both thematically and practically. Thematically, storms are powerful and can delay plans. Practically, as a Storm, you cannot attack and shield and heal, since you simply won't have time or pips to do them all. Slowing the opponent down gives you more room to maneuver.

Secondary benefit: if Storm wizard has more time to shield or heal, it makes less pressure to Wild Bolt every turn, where the objective is simply to end your opponent or at least scare them into being defensive.
kewl

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
this effect would more be a balance thing than a storm thing. How does doing massive damage have anything to do with robbing your opponent of power? I'm sorry, but this would make storm way too strong.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
dayerider on Oct 15, 2013 wrote:
this effect would more be a balance thing than a storm thing. How does doing massive damage have anything to do with robbing your opponent of power? I'm sorry, but this would make storm way too strong.
Storms interfere with things, fact of nature. Just because it has an effect on an opponent's status doesn't make it necessarily Balance.

How fragile you must believe the balance of power is! If -25% power pip chance is making storm way too strong, you'd think it would be the case that the game is already overrun with super powerful storms. You know that's not true though.

The percentage of high level storms who can solo bosses? Very low.
The percentage of high level storms who can excel at 1v1 PvP? Very low.
The percentage of high level storms who can avoid being the first to lose in 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4? Yep, you guessed it.
The percentage of high level storms who can get 5 or more power pips in 7 rounds? Hahaha yeaaaaah.

I am not saying give storm a million hit attack or an instant win card. I am saying add a utility spell that makes it a level playing field, and lets storm actually participate more than just throwing bolts and recklessly attacking.

Historian
May 28, 2009
653
I think the better effect that hurts the opponent's pips is a spell that gives a charm (a bad blade) to an opponent that removes 10% of next attack/pip they have since Storm users usually have low health.

Hero
Nov 14, 2010
763
dayerider on Oct 15, 2013 wrote:
this effect would more be a balance thing than a storm thing. How does doing massive damage have anything to do with robbing your opponent of power? I'm sorry, but this would make storm way too strong.
well i was thinking what does healing have to do with massive damage your repost to life hit all noob spell thread so i cannot really support this arguement until you give up that aura spell

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
critical blizzard on Oct 16, 2013 wrote:
well i was thinking what does healing have to do with massive damage your repost to life hit all noob spell thread so i cannot really support this arguement until you give up that aura spell
well since neither have actually been made there's nothing to give up :)

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
Lucas Rain on Oct 15, 2013 wrote:
Storms interfere with things, fact of nature. Just because it has an effect on an opponent's status doesn't make it necessarily Balance.

How fragile you must believe the balance of power is! If -25% power pip chance is making storm way too strong, you'd think it would be the case that the game is already overrun with super powerful storms. You know that's not true though.

The percentage of high level storms who can solo bosses? Very low.
The percentage of high level storms who can excel at 1v1 PvP? Very low.
The percentage of high level storms who can avoid being the first to lose in 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4? Yep, you guessed it.
The percentage of high level storms who can get 5 or more power pips in 7 rounds? Hahaha yeaaaaah.

I am not saying give storm a million hit attack or an instant win card. I am saying add a utility spell that makes it a level playing field, and lets storm actually participate more than just throwing bolts and recklessly attacking.
I'll tell you what, I'll agree to this, but only if it's made PvP only. in PvE, it would severely lopside a battle. My opinion of storm doesn't matter, but I believe they are quite powerful in PvE (I don't PvP). The reason I think they're took strong with this after effect is:

1) It's not a school based spell. mana Burn isn't a storm spell, so why should it have an off school effect like this?
2) what schools would get a plus to power pip thru spell effect? if you do one, you have to do the other.
3) How fragile do YOU feel storm is if you feel they need this type of spell?
4) Just because (as you say) the percentage of storms who can't get 5 power pips in 7 rounds is " Hahaha yeaaaaah", doesn't mean this is the fix for it.

I have a very hard time going for a spell like this, when in reality, it seems like you're upset you can't play your storm mage well. I don't have a storm mage, and havent played one, but then, I didnt suggest this idea either.

Geographer
Apr 29, 2012
861
Lucas Rain on Oct 14, 2013 wrote:
No, you can't "have it all." I just think other schools get too much. Pips, that is.

Storm should have a Storm-only spell that either 1) reduces an enemy's power pip rate by 25%, or 2) temporarily increases the cost of opponent spells by 1 pip each. This effect shouldn't last forever, but 4 rounds seems fair.

This makes sense both thematically and practically. Thematically, storms are powerful and can delay plans. Practically, as a Storm, you cannot attack and shield and heal, since you simply won't have time or pips to do them all. Slowing the opponent down gives you more room to maneuver.

Secondary benefit: if Storm wizard has more time to shield or heal, it makes less pressure to Wild Bolt every turn, where the objective is simply to end your opponent or at least scare them into being defensive.
While I agree with you to some extent, each school has it's own specialty: Fire=DoT, Ice=Defense, Life=Heal, Death=Drain, Balance=A bit of everything, Myth=Minions & Storm=Damage. Each school has something that's each schools specialty (except drain, which is death only). I think they should add more spells from a trainer in MS/DS or possibly CL. This is what I think they should be:
: Column of Flame - Summons a Minion of , 5 pips.
: Frozen Pain - 1,000 health to 1 ally, 5 pips.
: Pip Master - All enemies power pips become normal pips, and all allies normal pips become power pips, 4 pips.
: Mythical Vampire - 500 damage and heal half, 5 pips.
: Vine Shield - -80% damage to next 2 incoming spells to all allies, 4 pips.
: Ghostly Mage - 400 damage to all enemies, 4 pips.
: Serpent Venom - 300+300 damage over time, 5 pips.

This way, the schools have something from another, Fire=Myth, Ice swapped Life, Storm=Balance, Myth=Death, Death=Storm & Balance=Fire.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
Blaze Sandblade on Oct 16, 2013 wrote:
While I agree with you to some extent, each school has it's own specialty: Fire=DoT, Ice=Defense, Life=Heal, Death=Drain, Balance=A bit of everything, Myth=Minions & Storm=Damage. Each school has something that's each schools specialty (except drain, which is death only). I think they should add more spells from a trainer in MS/DS or possibly CL. This is what I think they should be:
: Column of Flame - Summons a Minion of , 5 pips.
: Frozen Pain - 1,000 health to 1 ally, 5 pips.
: Pip Master - All enemies power pips become normal pips, and all allies normal pips become power pips, 4 pips.
: Mythical Vampire - 500 damage and heal half, 5 pips.
: Vine Shield - -80% damage to next 2 incoming spells to all allies, 4 pips.
: Ghostly Mage - 400 damage to all enemies, 4 pips.
: Serpent Venom - 300+300 damage over time, 5 pips.

This way, the schools have something from another, Fire=Myth, Ice swapped Life, Storm=Balance, Myth=Death, Death=Storm & Balance=Fire.
There is no logic to storm being the master of the one hit that will make me agree that they should have pip manipulation at all, especially when no school has that as a primary, secondary or tertiary ability.

Survivor
Jul 26, 2012
47
Lucas Rain on Oct 15, 2013 wrote:
Storms interfere with things, fact of nature. Just because it has an effect on an opponent's status doesn't make it necessarily Balance.

How fragile you must believe the balance of power is! If -25% power pip chance is making storm way too strong, you'd think it would be the case that the game is already overrun with super powerful storms. You know that's not true though.

The percentage of high level storms who can solo bosses? Very low.
The percentage of high level storms who can excel at 1v1 PvP? Very low.
The percentage of high level storms who can avoid being the first to lose in 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4? Yep, you guessed it.
The percentage of high level storms who can get 5 or more power pips in 7 rounds? Hahaha yeaaaaah.

I am not saying give storm a million hit attack or an instant win card. I am saying add a utility spell that makes it a level playing field, and lets storm actually participate more than just throwing bolts and recklessly attacking.
Devastating high-damage attacks are what Storm is known for. "Recklessly attacking" is their specialty. They are not a school that plays it safe.

If you are a Storm wizard, you sacrifice survival for incredibly high damage. Their strength and weakness is made clear right from the get go. The character creation describes them as having "devastating attacks" but having "somewhat weaker defenses". Being able to stall and keep yourself safe is not the theme of Storm at all. Your offense is your defense. Take your enemies out before they can do the same to you.

As for Balance, pip chance reduction would be more fitting for them. Balance wizards are described as being able to "adjust the rules of combat." They can increase pip chance with Power Play, give pips to allies with Donate Power, and even destroy enemy pips with Mana Burn.

The main utility of the storm school is charm manipulation.They can remove an enemies blades or spears with Disarm, Leviathan, or Enfeeble. They can also remove negative charms from themselves or their allies. Pip chance reduction doesn't fit.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
I am not entertaining discussion on the stereotypical abilities associated with schools, since 1) it's a circular argument and 2) the variety of gear at high levels makes it possible for any school to be very strong. The point is that storm can't keep up. The pips of other schools make it possible to cast 3 fifth rank attacks in the time it would take storm to set up for 2. When you have low base health anyway, that's terrible. Some people call it unlucky. I see it as an anti-storm programming bias associated with pip rates.

Ok so there's bias. Big deal. There's bias everywhere in this game. But what do we do with it? Well, that's where this spell comes in. It gives you a strategic way to prevent the issue from happening or at least mount a counterattack.

Survivor
Jul 26, 2012
47
Lucas Rain on Oct 18, 2013 wrote:
I am not entertaining discussion on the stereotypical abilities associated with schools, since 1) it's a circular argument and 2) the variety of gear at high levels makes it possible for any school to be very strong. The point is that storm can't keep up. The pips of other schools make it possible to cast 3 fifth rank attacks in the time it would take storm to set up for 2. When you have low base health anyway, that's terrible. Some people call it unlucky. I see it as an anti-storm programming bias associated with pip rates.

Ok so there's bias. Big deal. There's bias everywhere in this game. But what do we do with it? Well, that's where this spell comes in. It gives you a strategic way to prevent the issue from happening or at least mount a counterattack.
If you don't wish to involve a school's theme or stereotypical abilities, then why did you say that Storm having a pip chance reducing spell would make sense from a thematic standpoint? That's probably why so many people have been going on and on about Storm from a thematic perspective.

I'm not against the idea in it's entirety. After all, Ice had nothing to do with pip destruction before Lord of Winter, and Myth had nothing to do with stealing pips prior to Celestial Calender. However, these pip related effects are side effects attached to regular attacking spells. Neither Ice nor Myth has a pure utility spell that involves pip manipulation.

I wouldn't be against the idea of this being the side effect of a Storm attack spell, but I don't see a pure utility spell of pip chance reduction being fitting for the Storm school.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
Tanner Silver on Oct 18, 2013 wrote:
If you don't wish to involve a school's theme or stereotypical abilities, then why did you say that Storm having a pip chance reducing spell would make sense from a thematic standpoint? That's probably why so many people have been going on and on about Storm from a thematic perspective.

I'm not against the idea in it's entirety. After all, Ice had nothing to do with pip destruction before Lord of Winter, and Myth had nothing to do with stealing pips prior to Celestial Calender. However, these pip related effects are side effects attached to regular attacking spells. Neither Ice nor Myth has a pure utility spell that involves pip manipulation.

I wouldn't be against the idea of this being the side effect of a Storm attack spell, but I don't see a pure utility spell of pip chance reduction being fitting for the Storm school.
I am against it. Imagine this scenario:

1) Round 1 Winter Moon/Frost Giant/Wooly Mammoth/Medusa/Basilisk/Storm lord
2) Round 2 casting this pip stealing spell
3) Round 3 casting this pip stealing spell

IF this is implemented as a spell (and I don't think it should be), then one of the conditions must be that it can't be cast while the target is stunned or else it's just way too spam capable

Mastermind
Jan 27, 2010
397
Meh I don't think storm should be able to trifle with peoples pips they already have high damage and to stave off an enemy from attacking would make storm even more powerful which I don't think the school needs.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
Lucas Rain on Oct 14, 2013 wrote:
No, you can't "have it all." I just think other schools get too much. Pips, that is.

Storm should have a Storm-only spell that either 1) reduces an enemy's power pip rate by 25%, or 2) temporarily increases the cost of opponent spells by 1 pip each. This effect shouldn't last forever, but 4 rounds seems fair.

This makes sense both thematically and practically. Thematically, storms are powerful and can delay plans. Practically, as a Storm, you cannot attack and shield and heal, since you simply won't have time or pips to do them all. Slowing the opponent down gives you more room to maneuver.

Secondary benefit: if Storm wizard has more time to shield or heal, it makes less pressure to Wild Bolt every turn, where the objective is simply to end your opponent or at least scare them into being defensive.
Practically, as a Storm, you cannot attack and shield and heal, since you simply won't have time or pips to do them all. Slowing the opponent down gives you more room to maneuver.

you know, the exact same argument could be used for fire. Sure it has healing spells, but they're not very good, and neither are storms.

Survivor
Jul 26, 2012
47
dayerider on Oct 19, 2013 wrote:
I am against it. Imagine this scenario:

1) Round 1 Winter Moon/Frost Giant/Wooly Mammoth/Medusa/Basilisk/Storm lord
2) Round 2 casting this pip stealing spell
3) Round 3 casting this pip stealing spell

IF this is implemented as a spell (and I don't think it should be), then one of the conditions must be that it can't be cast while the target is stunned or else it's just way too spam capable
What I was getting at is that I would be okay with this being the side effect of a Storm attack spell, Citing Celestial Calendar and Lord of Winter as examples. As you know, these attack spells both have very high pip costs of ten.

Let's say if the next set of 11-pip attack spells where introduced, and some sort of pip-manipulation was involved as a side effect of the Storm spell. I don't think it would be very easy to spam. To my knowledge, Ice and Myth's pip destroying/pip stealing from LoW and CC have not caused any sort of "pip-locking" problems. In your scenarios, casting such as spell together with the aformentioned stun attacks would require the caster having over twenty pips in a mere three rounds.

So to reiterate: I am against this idea as a utility spell that has little or no pip cost. However, if it where the side effect of a high leveled attack spell, I think it would be okay. I wouldn't see it as causing anymore problems than Lord of Winter or Celestial Calendar do currently.

My intention is to meet the original poster's ideas half way, rather than being completely opposed to them.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
Tanner Silver on Oct 20, 2013 wrote:
What I was getting at is that I would be okay with this being the side effect of a Storm attack spell, Citing Celestial Calendar and Lord of Winter as examples. As you know, these attack spells both have very high pip costs of ten.

Let's say if the next set of 11-pip attack spells where introduced, and some sort of pip-manipulation was involved as a side effect of the Storm spell. I don't think it would be very easy to spam. To my knowledge, Ice and Myth's pip destroying/pip stealing from LoW and CC have not caused any sort of "pip-locking" problems. In your scenarios, casting such as spell together with the aformentioned stun attacks would require the caster having over twenty pips in a mere three rounds.

So to reiterate: I am against this idea as a utility spell that has little or no pip cost. However, if it where the side effect of a high leveled attack spell, I think it would be okay. I wouldn't see it as causing anymore problems than Lord of Winter or Celestial Calendar do currently.

My intention is to meet the original poster's ideas half way, rather than being completely opposed to them.
Let's say if the next set of 11-pip attack spells where introduced, and some sort of pip-manipulation was involved as a side effect of the Storm spell. I don't think it would be very easy to spam. To my knowledge, Ice and Myth's pip destroying/pip stealing from LoW and CC have not caused any sort of "pip-locking" problems. In your scenarios, casting such as spell together with the aformentioned stun attacks would require the caster having over twenty pips in a mere three rounds.

In PvE, it's close to possible since they start off with max pips. That's the fear I have, because everything we get, monsters get first.

Geographer
Mar 12, 2013
929
Mutate mana burn into mana shock.

I don't think any more spells that setback mana or pips are needed in this game. It's hard enough to beat storm bosses as it is!

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
Tanner Silver on Oct 18, 2013 wrote:
If you don't wish to involve a school's theme or stereotypical abilities, then why did you say that Storm having a pip chance reducing spell would make sense from a thematic standpoint? That's probably why so many people have been going on and on about Storm from a thematic perspective.

I'm not against the idea in it's entirety. After all, Ice had nothing to do with pip destruction before Lord of Winter, and Myth had nothing to do with stealing pips prior to Celestial Calender. However, these pip related effects are side effects attached to regular attacking spells. Neither Ice nor Myth has a pure utility spell that involves pip manipulation.

I wouldn't be against the idea of this being the side effect of a Storm attack spell, but I don't see a pure utility spell of pip chance reduction being fitting for the Storm school.
If the pip-reducing conditions were created by a bigger spell, or maybe an X spell like tempest, then maybe this could work. I think something like that could still maintain the game balance, as well as give Storm a fighting chance in 1v1, as well as make multiplayer PvP and PvE more interesting.