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pyromancy underpowered post wintertusk releas

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Aug 19, 2010
6
After the release of wintertusk and the waterworks , i have noted that other wizards have started considering "fire school" as a weak one. And i do not differ with them. Here are point which have made me think about bringing this topic to limelight:-

1) The new fire pet pheonix is not that great pet. The pet i recieved had few rare slots and nothing more than that. so was quite a dissapointment.

2) Fire which is considered to be the second most powerful school now looks to be standing at the very bottom or second last may be. The supercharge has given diviners , the extra edge than other school. ( after 80 % + additional damage) :x. I have fire with damage of additional 60 % . but then an extra damage comes from my pet. most of the other schhols also have minimum 50 - 55 % minimum additional damage.

3) Resistance wise fire should be better than storm but now they stand equal.

4) As for the new spells, i have not seen any fire wizard actually using the new trap spell cause it uses 2 pips. The powerlink is another waste spell which will be hardly used in serious dueling.

5) The dungeon at waterworks has been designed in such a way that fire wizard are the last options in a group. People prefer to have storm ( thanks to supercharge), life ( obvious reason) , balance ( for buff) , fourth they want a death or myth.

6) Most of the wizards have maximum resistance to fire and some of them can be actually called immune. On top of it they get time to shield in every round for DOT spell.

In a nutshell these are the stats of pyromancers: -
Low resistance to other schools
Other school have high resistance to fire
Low power pip chance. ( can be maxed to 82 % through dirk and ring but that will caue other stats suffer in a big way)
low health
No good power ups
Efreet being only decent single hit spell, still stands no chance in front of level 58 storm, death, myth, life, etc
absence of X pip AOE spell.

There are many other points as well seems my list is endless. Hence i request ki to please decide where they want to place each school. They should have more balanced approach.

I would love to hear comments of fellow pyromancers in this forum.

Destiny P.
Legendary Pyromancer

Survivor
Dec 21, 2009
24
I sadly agree with you on this topic. Ever since Wintertusk arrived and all of these new abilities have come into place, I have seen a lot of negativity toward pyromancer's, especially in regards to Waterworks. I have tried endlessly to form a group or join other's groups to complete this dungeon, but nobody is willing to invite a pyromancer to join. Its all about the life and storm student when it comes to this (at least from what I've seen).

With Efreet, though I do enjoy this spell, I feel that since fire's "specialty" is inflicting damage over multiple rounds, our grandmaster spell should be able to do that, and against all enemies, not just one of them.

As for the Phoenix pet, mine has given me some good stats. I get a 4% power pip chance, 9 resistance to fire, 5 damage for fire, and sprite spell. I am not really liking the card that is given however. This would have been a good continual damage card rather than a one hit, -45 accuracy spell. For the most part, the enemies are still able to cast their spells regardless of the minus accuracy placed on them, which stinks.

These new changes have sadly made me feel weaker and a little less enthusiastic about being a pyromancer :( But these are just my opinions.

Saffron IronThorn,
Legendary Pyromancer

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
The observations are all in the "Eye of the Beholder"!

No way is Fire UnderPowered!!!

Fire has accuracy, resistance, power, critical points, damage over time spells, healing ability, Efreet! Everything but the kitchen sink!

Fire can stun, smoke screen, steal charms, and do things other schools just cant!

As for the new spells, 2 pips for fuel only equals 1 power pip! Put that on a boss before you cast Dragon, Power Link, Link, even fire elf!

PowerLink, a way to attack and heal yourself and be able to critical this! Thought that was death's specialty!

How on earth can people complain? I love my fire and in no way is he underpowered! People say the funniest things!

Defender
Jun 21, 2009
143
Explorer
Dec 11, 2008
59
maybe you guy are not playing a fire wizard right, i have one and love the new spells that came out, and with the link hiting first round then doing a damage over time it rocks. if you go first and they have 2 fire shield one link and bam both gone.
as for the new link spell its very good via 1v1 and the fuel spell it rocks after you use a damage over time you use that spell and bam 3 traps to make your DoT do more damage

fire is about DoT your not to hit big right off the bat but you do damage every turn while gaining pips to do it all over, storm will remain the " strongets" school out there and i say that cuz un buffed there spells hit for more

as for the fire pet does it really matter? when the lvl 48 spell came out every one was kinda happy then when pet talents came out almost no one had a school pet and they same will go after a few months you hatch and hatch geta pet that does srpitely and somehting else good and you will drop other pet just for the talents

but in all in all i love fire i did back int he day all the way to WT and any other world to come
Hunter ashgem lvl 60 life
"life of the party"
Flint stone lvl 60 fire
"didnt hurt? wait 3 turns and we'll see"

Explorer
Oct 16, 2009
73
uh-oh, this is NOT good news for a level 26 pyromancer, because link is starting to become less useful at this level :? and i would rather enjoy a fierce hound card that does 160 over 3 rounds per pip or something.

though really, scald represents fire more then efret, and that's just sad, because you get it at the end of marleybone!

and fuel....i don't know about this one, but 2 pips for some fire trap thing is a ripoff...

this makes me less thrilled for the future of CL and WT

------------------------------------------------
whatever it is, it wasn't me-probably


Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
892
I disagree. I have leveled everything except Balance to legendary,and the pyro is the best overall class I have seen so far. His arsenal is full of spells for every occasion,where other schools seem lacking. Whenever I am asked by friends to join them,they invariably ask for the pyro.

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
Fire's power is incredible, but i know this second hand from seeing my brother's grandmaster pyromancer in action. he did constant critical hits, had no problem getting power pips, great accuracy, and his effreet spell put my medusa spell to shame. for my sixth wizard it was between fire and storm. i chose storm for 2 reasons only - 1. one of my mages got a storm cat, which comes with a handy spell for storm and 2. i wanted cleanse charm because i hate weakness spells That much! otherwise, fire has great strategy potential with its many DOT spells, and high base damage for its spells when looking at overall damage. i may have to start a second account so i can make one at some point. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2644
chanieman wrote:


and fuel....i don't know about this one, but 2 pips for some fire trap thing is a ripoff...



Fuel is one of the best spells for my level 60 pyro. It works wonders prior to damage over time spells. Yes, it costs two pips while most fire traps are zero pip cards, but that spell saves me two more rounds of casting! Those two rounds may mean the difference in winning or losing.

Survivor
Aug 19, 2010
6
I have soloed the entire wintertusk except the last dungeon. But my point here in starting the thread is fire wizard is the last choice when fighting at waterworks and at level 4v4 pvp. The main reason being every wizard is highly resistant from fire and on top they shield themselves up too.

Dragon is most of the time waste in pvp because the majority of the damage is taken away by shields and very less damage is left for next three rounds. I would rather want fire dragon to do less damage in the first round to remove their shield and carry the major damage over next three rounds.

I also feel fire should be given an x pip aoe spell, something like tempest

And to be honest when i joined this game i loved my fire wizard but now i feel there is nothing for which i can boast about. If any one can help me what to fill in the blank space i will be highly appreciative.

Storm - High damage- Storm lord, Tempest, Supercharge, bolt, Levy
Myth- revome shield - attack are powerful and hit twice .
balance- Buffs, RA
Life- Healing, Forest lord
Ice- Powerups, resistance. very difficult to beat in pvp
death- Beguiler, skeleton dragon , high power pips, Scare crow.
Fire- __________________
( i can fill in low resistance, most of the spells are waste which any wizard hardly use, poor pets, etc etc. )


Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2644
Fire not being the most highly desired school in waterworks is true, but what goes around comes around. Remember when Fire school was highly sought after for Briskbreeze Tower for the endless Quench spells? I believe KI designs each of these hard/optional dungeons with certain strategies that certain schools excel at. It just seems Fire is one of the those that got the hose this time. I'm sure the next dungeon like that will probably limit the abilities of storm or life (since we haven't seen a really anti-life dungeon yet).

Astrologist
Aug 13, 2009
1087
chanieman wrote:
uh-oh, this is NOT good news for a level 26 pyromancer, because link is starting to become less useful at this level :? and i would rather enjoy a fierce hound card that does 160 over 3 rounds per pip or something.

though really, scald represents fire more then efret, and that's just sad, because you get it at the end of marleybone!

and fuel....i don't know about this one, but 2 pips for some fire trap thing is a ripoff...

this makes me less thrilled for the future of CL and WT

------------------------------------------------
whatever it is, it wasn't me-probably


Do not fear. This is just a simple opinion, and I'd say that Fire is actually looking good (other than the new Life spell, Triage that destroys Fire's DoT's..!

Survivor
Jul 25, 2010
9
I don't consider fire weak yet but way the attack boosts are going, it might get weaker with future releases.

My main concern is death, life and balance getting more attack boost than fire.
Fire used to be second only to storm, in that case but now it is third weakest just above ice and myth.

If this keeps going on then fire might get weaker.

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
705
I disagree with this assessment. My pyromancer is the most powerful of my 6 wizards, and always has been. Frostbranch? A breeze, even if he DOES spam Efreet. Final Wintertusk bosses? A good time, especially when I cast my full-pip Heckhound for critical hits. Dang, my Meteor Strike regularly does over 1100. Dragon delivers over 1200 on the first blast. My Efreet regularly does well over 3000 with minimal enchantments. What's weak about that?

IMHO, a weak pyromancer is made by a player who doesn't spend much time mastering gear options.

Scarlet Ravensong -- Incredibly powerful Legendary Pyromancer, highly desired for trips into the Waterworks and Frostbranch's lair.


Defender
Oct 31, 2009
175
Personally I like taking fire with me against bosses. Who else can attack at anytime without fear of being hurt from a return attack. (Efreet)

Fire are still powerful especially in the DoT department! Thank goodness life was given a counter to DoTs.

We can all feel like our school is the weakest because we occasionally lose to another player or struggle against another school.

KI has done a good in providing a strength and weakness to each school. We all can't be the most powerful wizard and win every battle we go into. Sometimes we need to be humbled by another school to help us learn to deal with those situations.

Rohan DragonSong
Life

Survivor
May 27, 2009
38
I agree with everyone who disagrees with this rude post about pyromancers.

" With friend's, victory is assured"
Nathan Bluestone ( level 60 Fire )

Explorer
May 25, 2009
86
darthjt wrote:
The observations are all in the "Eye of the Beholder"!

No way is Fire UnderPowered!!!

Fire has accuracy, resistance, power, critical points, damage over time spells, healing ability, Efreet! Everything but the kitchen sink!

Fire can stun, smoke screen, steal charms, and do things other schools just cant!

As for the new spells, 2 pips for fuel only equals 1 power pip! Put that on a boss before you cast Dragon, Power Link, Link, even fire elf!

PowerLink, a way to attack and heal yourself and be able to critical this! Thought that was death's specialty!

How on earth can people complain? I love my fire and in no way is he underpowered! People say the funniest things!
I totally A G R E E !
I think why the girl made this post is because she isn't understanding the WEAKNESSES and the strong things about each school. I thought my fire was really weak at first but then I just learned like that. If fire was MORE powerful, then why were the schools even there?!?!?!?!?! The spiral would be in chaos if every school was weak except fire. I: Please do understand.

-Taylor Daisystone
-Level 57 Fire

"Break her heart, I brake your face! ^.^" (Jk)

Survivor
May 15, 2009
49
I agree with you more then i ever have. I got my phoenix up to epic and got these traits
Talents: Derby:
Fire shot 6% oil slick
may cast fire trap bombarder
health 113 bummer
may cast fire shield super pass
I mean some of these are good but it is very unfair compared to other pets.
The Kraken has 69 blood line to start out and phoenix has 54 for me. That is something that should be changed. i have also gone into the dungeon in waterworks 3 times and only got the robe.

when i went in this is what i got:

first:
Deadly Fly Trap seed (1)
Pink Dandelion seed (1)

Second:
Daggar of typhoons (2)

Third:
Firestarter's Robe (1)

but my friend went in twice and got:

First:
Frostbit set (1)
+one more Frostbit Hood

Second:
Frostbit Hood (2)
Frostbit Robe (3)
frostbit Shoes (1)

I would also like to say something about that it is unfair by a longshot. All my ice friends have gotten all their items in one or two tries. Please ty to fix this KI.

Survivor
Dec 12, 2010
42
mjhonson wrote:
After the release of wintertusk and the waterworks , i have noted that other wizards have started considering "fire school" as a weak one. And i do not differ with them. Here are point which have made me think about bringing this topic to limelight:-

1) The new fire pet pheonix is not that great pet. The pet i recieved had few rare slots and nothing more than that. so was quite a dissapointment.

2) Fire which is considered to be the second most powerful school now looks to be standing at the very bottom or second last may be. The supercharge has given diviners , the extra edge than other school. ( after 80 % + additional damage) :x. I have fire with damage of additional 60 % . but then an extra damage comes from my pet. most of the other schhols also have minimum 50 - 55 % minimum additional damage.

3) Resistance wise fire should be better than storm but now they stand equal.

4) As for the new spells, i have not seen any fire wizard actually using the new trap spell cause it uses 2 pips. The powerlink is another waste spell which will be hardly used in serious dueling.

5) The dungeon at waterworks has been designed in such a way that fire wizard are the last options in a group. People prefer to have storm ( thanks to supercharge), life ( obvious reason) , balance ( for buff) , fourth they want a death or myth.

6) Most of the wizards have maximum resistance to fire and some of them can be actually called immune. On top of it they get time to shield in every round for DOT spell.

In a nutshell these are the stats of pyromancers: -
Low resistance to other schools
Other school have high resistance to fire
Low power pip chance. ( can be maxed to 82 % through dirk and ring but that will caue other stats suffer in a big way)
low health
No good power ups
Efreet being only decent single hit spell, still stands no chance in front of level 58 storm, death, myth, life, etc
absence of X pip AOE spell.

There are many other points as well seems my list is endless. Hence i request ki to please decide where they want to place each school. They should have more balanced approach.

I would love to hear comments of fellow pyromancers in this forum.

Destiny P.
Legendary Pyromancer


OK I am a level 22 fire wizard so hearing that HURT!!!!!!!!!!! :(

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
mjhonson wrote:
1) The new fire pet pheonix is not that great pet. The pet i recieved had few rare slots and nothing more than that. so was quite a dissapointment.


Most (all?) schools have complained about their new pet. Personally, I like the new pet spell as it works particularly well when timed with my minion. Of course, this is a solo wizard's perspective. Regardless, as with any pet a certain amount of hatching will be necessary to get the one you ultimately want.

mjhonson wrote:
2) Fire which is considered to be the second most powerful school now looks to be standing at the very bottom or second last may be. The supercharge has given diviners , the extra edge than other school. ( after 80 % + additional damage) :x. I have fire with damage of additional 60 % . but then an extra damage comes from my pet. most of the other schhols also have minimum 50 - 55 % minimum additional damage.


This seems completely incorrect to me. Perhaps you could define what gear you are comparing because that isn't accurate when looking at the new waterworks gear or the crafted level 56 gear. While fire does not have the second highest natural gear damage boost any longer, I believe that to be because they have such a variety of spells for smashing shields and they have been at a high enough damage level to one hit kill an unshielded opponent in just a few rounds for quite some time.

mjhonson wrote:
3) Resistance wise fire should be better than storm but now they stand equal.


Again, with the new waterworks gear this is an inaccurate assertion. Fire is now 3rd in resistance behind ice and myth. Fire has 3% more natural global resist and 202 additional points of health over the natural storm gear.

mjhonson wrote:
4) As for the new spells, i have not seen any fire wizard actually using the new trap spell cause it uses 2 pips. The powerlink is another waste spell which will be hardly used in serious dueling.


I completely disagree with this point. Powerlink is one of the most complained about spells in PvP now (the complaint being that its overpowered and unfair) and I personally use both it and fuel frequently while questing.

mjhonson wrote:
5) The dungeon at waterworks has been designed in such a way that fire wizard are the last options in a group. People prefer to have storm ( thanks to supercharge), life ( obvious reason) , balance ( for buff) , fourth they want a death or myth.


I can't really speak to this in any way other than my own experiences, but I haven't found this assertion to be true. I would say that I have had at least one fire with me for about 75% of my runs through waterworks and I've never seen that it was "undesirable" as a school. However, I will say that I have played with some very non strategic fires that have been problematic.

mjhonson wrote:
6) Most of the wizards have maximum resistance to fire and some of them can be actually called immune. On top of it they get time to shield in every round for DOT spell.


I don't know what you are talking about here. This assertion doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What are you defining as immune? Even if you assume that a wizard can somehow (probably through a pet) exceed 60% fire resist, they would have had to give up something else and therefore you should be able to use a prism. How does anyone have additional time to shield since the release of wintertusk?

mjhonson wrote:
In a nutshell these are the stats of pyromancers: -
Low resistance to other schools
Other school have high resistance to fire
Low power pip chance. ( can be maxed to 82 % through dirk and ring but that will caue other stats suffer in a big way)
low health
No good power ups
Efreet being only decent single hit spell, still stands no chance in front of level 58 storm, death, myth, life, etc
absence of X pip AOE spell.


What gear are you referring to? I think this is completely inaccurate. I have close to 3000 health (2900ish and some change), my power pip chance is in line with every school but balance, life, and death, I have tremendous accuracy, and a very good array of power ups. A gargantuan efreet, particularly when timed appropriately, is devastating to everyone. Finally, why would fire need an X pip AoE spell? Storm is the only school to have one of those. Myth and Death's X spells are for minions, life's is for healing, and ice's is for an absorb. I just don't understand where you're coming from on this.

mjhonson wrote:
There are many other points as well seems my list is endless. Hence i request ki to please decide where they want to place each school. They should have more balanced approach.

I would love to hear comments of fellow pyromancers in this forum.

Destiny P.
Legendary Pyromancer


KI balances all 7 schools extremely well from a mathematical standpoint, and as well as can be expected from strategic standpoint when you consider that all 7 schools are supposed to have unique powers. Could they improve? Certainly. However, almost your entire post seems to come from the perspective of someone who isn't looking at the game objectively. We all get frustrated when things we've gotten used to change, but I would encourage you to step back and take a look at the bigger picture. Its not nearly so bleak as you paint it.

Delver
Jul 09, 2009
275
I disagree I think us pyromancers are in great shape and have you ever used efreet ever? Because it seems 895 damage and 90- weakness is underpowered. Etheir you skipped that test at the start of the game and just chose fire or you dont understand that point of the class. Fire is meant to damage overtime, Storm is honestly isnt great shape right now for you to complain i mean low accuracy and terrible health! At the start of Celestia Fire seemed overpowered and now it may be currently underanked now but next world I bet its gonna be the best class, but I understand what you mean it does seem Kingisle favors Ice and Storm over Fire.

Aaron Drakewalker Level:60
Pyromancer

Hero
Jul 27, 2009
755
actually i tend to disagree with you.
the secret to making the Pyromancer a power advisary in Winter usk is the knowledge of how to combo and when to combo. as well as to which position to take in the battle rink is the key

having gained this knowledge and knowing where to be i often clear the deck of the foes in a couple rounds and as the most powerful in the rink at this point my team mates will often assist me in laying out the tactics.

so until you analyze the spells and the groupings do not sell the Pyromancer short... as a winter state i found the ice and strom wizard often are in more need of assistance then the Fire wizard is.

Delver
Jul 20, 2009
200
mjhonson wrote:

4) As for the new spells, i have not seen any fire wizard actually using the new trap spell cause it uses 2 pips. The powerlink is another waste spell which will be hardly used in serious dueling.

5) The dungeon at waterworks has been designed in such a way that fire wizard are the last options in a group. People prefer to have storm ( thanks to supercharge), life ( obvious reason) , balance ( for buff) , fourth they want a death or myth.

6) Most of the wizards have maximum resistance to fire and some of them can be actually called immune. On top of it they get time to shield in every round for DOT spell.

In a nutshell these are the stats of pyromancers: -
Low resistance to other schools
Other school have high resistance to fire
Low power pip chance. ( can be maxed to 82 % through dirk and ring but that will caue other stats suffer in a big way)
low health
No good power ups
Efreet being only decent single hit spell, still stands no chance in front of level 58 storm, death, myth, life, etc
absence of X pip AOE spell.

There are many other points as well seems my list is endless. Hence i request ki to please decide where they want to place each school. They should have more balanced approach.

I would love to hear comments of fellow pyromancers in this forum.

Destiny P.
Legendary Pyromancer

I use the new firetrap spell... but I DO NOT use the new link spell. I don't like it, it's kinda weak... With the level 58 gear, fire school has 36% resistance to ice and storm. The only reason why death, life, and myth has resistance to fire should be because their pet(s) has spell proof, maybe.

Fire isn't weak in wintertusk, about 89% (a random number) of monsters are ice.
Fire has low health because they have the second strongest spells. It wouldn't be fair if fire had high damage spells AND high health.
I liked the Phoenix pet... It was a good idea. They have good talents, but I agree with you, half of the talents are rare and uncommon, it's kinda annoying to see about 7 rare talents on a pet, don't you think?

Survivor
Dec 24, 2009
35
Are you kiddinf me!? Fire is just as good as the other schools!

Health is 3,000+! While storm is barely 2,000+!

You get like 27% resist or so! With a pet you can get 40+!

And the pets have the SAME rank. All are 58. (I think.)

And Efreet does 910 damage. Only Storm is doing more!

Much more I could say about this...

Mastermind
Nov 04, 2010
337
nijac wrote:
mjhonson wrote:

4) As for the new spells, i have not seen any fire wizard actually using the new trap spell cause it uses 2 pips. The powerlink is another waste spell which will be hardly used in serious dueling.

5) The dungeon at waterworks has been designed in such a way that fire wizard are the last options in a group. People prefer to have storm ( thanks to supercharge), life ( obvious reason) , balance ( for buff) , fourth they want a death or myth.

6) Most of the wizards have maximum resistance to fire and some of them can be actually called immune. On top of it they get time to shield in every round for DOT spell.

In a nutshell these are the stats of pyromancers: -
Low resistance to other schools
Other school have high resistance to fire
Low power pip chance. ( can be maxed to 82 % through dirk and ring but that will caue other stats suffer in a big way)
low health
No good power ups
Efreet being only decent single hit spell, still stands no chance in front of level 58 storm, death, myth, life, etc
absence of X pip AOE spell.

There are many other points as well seems my list is endless. Hence i request ki to please decide where they want to place each school. They should have more balanced approach.

I would love to hear comments of fellow pyromancers in this forum.

Destiny P.
Legendary Pyromancer

I use the new firetrap spell... but I DO NOT use the new link spell. I don't like it, it's kinda weak... With the level 58 gear, fire school has 36% resistance to ice and storm. The only reason why death, life, and myth has resistance to fire should be because their pet(s) has spell proof, maybe.

Fire isn't weak in wintertusk, about 89% (a random number) of monsters are ice.
Fire has low health because they have the second strongest spells. It wouldn't be fair if fire had high damage spells AND high health.
I liked the Phoenix pet... It was a good idea. They have good talents, but I agree with you, half of the talents are rare and uncommon, it's kinda annoying to see about 7 rare talents on a pet, don't you think?

Low health? I am a level 60 pyromancer with around 2,900 health and yeah fire is weak post wt release in my opinion too

1