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New sticky for Dorms: being constructive

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
I think a "constructive criticism" sticky would be helpful as a reminder for those responding to idea threads.

Some suggestions, as written, don't have a very good chance of getting drafted into the game. They're easy to tear apart, but really all that does is make sure people never post in the suggestions forum again. If people responded more constructively, it would make for a better climate.

If all someone does is say "bad idea" or "no, it'll never happen," then no one makes any progress. But if someone offers advice on how to make the idea better, or at least find something to appreciate in what a person was trying to say, then that at least makes the forum a more pleasant place. It could even result in a "bad idea" being salvaged, made into something nice.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
Lately I notice that posters are treating ideas they don't like in the same way I might treat a surprise rattlesnake in my couch cushions...

But these are players who are just suggesting ideas harmlessly. They need more respect than they're getting. Please make an effort to keep the forums friendly.

Defender
Feb 02, 2014
100
Lucas Rain on Sep 30, 2014 wrote:
I think a "constructive criticism" sticky would be helpful as a reminder for those responding to idea threads.

Some suggestions, as written, don't have a very good chance of getting drafted into the game. They're easy to tear apart, but really all that does is make sure people never post in the suggestions forum again. If people responded more constructively, it would make for a better climate.

If all someone does is say "bad idea" or "no, it'll never happen," then no one makes any progress. But if someone offers advice on how to make the idea better, or at least find something to appreciate in what a person was trying to say, then that at least makes the forum a more pleasant place. It could even result in a "bad idea" being salvaged, made into something nice.
Nicely said. People are still people even if they are on the internet.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
I'm still seeing a lot of people only joining threads to say no, then acting condescending/borderline snarky toward the original poster. I still think we need simple guidelines for constructive criticism as a sticky.

Saying no is perfectly fine, you can't like everything. But be constructive. It might be 10x easier to tear an idea apart, but that doesn't make it nice or the right thing to do.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1129
Lucas Rain on Sep 30, 2014 wrote:
I think a "constructive criticism" sticky would be helpful as a reminder for those responding to idea threads.

Some suggestions, as written, don't have a very good chance of getting drafted into the game. They're easy to tear apart, but really all that does is make sure people never post in the suggestions forum again. If people responded more constructively, it would make for a better climate.

If all someone does is say "bad idea" or "no, it'll never happen," then no one makes any progress. But if someone offers advice on how to make the idea better, or at least find something to appreciate in what a person was trying to say, then that at least makes the forum a more pleasant place. It could even result in a "bad idea" being salvaged, made into something nice.
I hate your idea!

I'm just kidding!

I say well played! Unless an idea is especially "good" or "bad" (quotes included for opinion) I rarely comment. For the ones that have merit I'll often offer additional suggestions or "improvements". For the questionable ideas, if I do comment I don't do it to flame but to point out the downside along with a possible alternate approach. Like you said, nothing is gained by bashing people's suggestions and I've noticed some folks who take the slightest criticism, constructive or otherwise, as a personal attack.

On that note I'd like to offer the following considerations:
Before you post any proposed "improvements" to the game, stop and consider the resources required to implement the changes and whether or not these changes would have far-reaching effects on events within the story-line of the game. Also remember - not everyone loves trees, unicorns, dragons, butterflies, the color purple, your pet Icecat and waffles as much as you do.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4116
Lucas Rain on Nov 20, 2014 wrote:
I'm still seeing a lot of people only joining threads to say no, then acting condescending/borderline snarky toward the original poster. I still think we need simple guidelines for constructive criticism as a sticky.

Saying no is perfectly fine, you can't like everything. But be constructive. It might be 10x easier to tear an idea apart, but that doesn't make it nice or the right thing to do.
I think part of the problem is that people don't realize that negative criticism is constructive. Pointing out why an idea as proposed will not work, or pointing out unintended consequences that were overlooked are perfectly valid criticisms and can lead to better ideas to solve the issue. Saying that everything needs to be positive just stifles debate and innovation of ideas. Tearing an idea apart is the only way to rebuild it correctly.

Adherent
Feb 07, 2011
2923
seethe42 on Nov 21, 2014 wrote:
I think part of the problem is that people don't realize that negative criticism is constructive. Pointing out why an idea as proposed will not work, or pointing out unintended consequences that were overlooked are perfectly valid criticisms and can lead to better ideas to solve the issue. Saying that everything needs to be positive just stifles debate and innovation of ideas. Tearing an idea apart is the only way to rebuild it correctly.
Seethe, I want to agree with the general sentiment of your post; however, not all criticism is constructive.

As a writer, I believe that one should feel equal parts rewarded and punched in the face after a good critique. I get that my work isn't for everyone, but anyone who hates on it should be prepared to offer an explanation and/or suggestions for improvement; fluffy praise is nice, but it does not help me to improve.

However, I have seen so-called critiques on these forums that are just plain rude and in no way constructive. The line can be blurred at times, but most people are simply unable or unwilling to tell the difference.

Constructive:
"Hey von, that's a neat idea in theory, but it won't work because (x). Have you considered (y) as an alternative?"

Rude:
"That's a terrible idea and should never be used because you're lazy and less of a player than me."

As everyone can see, CC is asking questions of the OP, or offering suggestions for improvement (like Lucas often does) if you don't feel that something works. Being rude is straight-up attacking the OP and/or her idea, which is disrespectful and 100% uncalled-for.

I hope this thread gets stickied. Just a little something to remind us all that respect is paramount.

-von

Survivor
Aug 26, 2011
35
This is a great idea! I have been having the same problem with people on my ideas but it wanted to make me stop posting, and it pretty much ruined me from posting ever again. But I realized that people like to throw their weight around on the internet so I won't stop posting ;I just simply stop arguing back with them on what I was trying to say.

Survivor
Aug 26, 2011
35
seethe42 on Nov 21, 2014 wrote:
I think part of the problem is that people don't realize that negative criticism is constructive. Pointing out why an idea as proposed will not work, or pointing out unintended consequences that were overlooked are perfectly valid criticisms and can lead to better ideas to solve the issue. Saying that everything needs to be positive just stifles debate and innovation of ideas. Tearing an idea apart is the only way to rebuild it correctly.
And no it is not the only way to rebuild it correctly. You can nicely tell people how to fix an idea than rip it apart and tear it to pieces like how I know you do. Or simply say nicely that you don't like the idea and give a way to help someone fix an idea to better it. So from this day forward I think we all need to see , and think about what we write before you post it.

Survivor
Aug 26, 2011
35
And seethe you also have to realize half the people on here are kids and kids don't take rude criticism that well. So also take into mind that half of the people you are talking to will never ever post on this blog ever again and that all could be because of you. And to me I think we need to encourage young people to start writing more not go away in fear of running into people like you who don't give a thought about how the other person will take it on the other end.

Explorer
Nov 27, 2013
74
Dr Von on Nov 21, 2014 wrote:
Seethe, I want to agree with the general sentiment of your post; however, not all criticism is constructive.

As a writer, I believe that one should feel equal parts rewarded and punched in the face after a good critique. I get that my work isn't for everyone, but anyone who hates on it should be prepared to offer an explanation and/or suggestions for improvement; fluffy praise is nice, but it does not help me to improve.

However, I have seen so-called critiques on these forums that are just plain rude and in no way constructive. The line can be blurred at times, but most people are simply unable or unwilling to tell the difference.

Constructive:
"Hey von, that's a neat idea in theory, but it won't work because (x). Have you considered (y) as an alternative?"

Rude:
"That's a terrible idea and should never be used because you're lazy and less of a player than me."

As everyone can see, CC is asking questions of the OP, or offering suggestions for improvement (like Lucas often does) if you don't feel that something works. Being rude is straight-up attacking the OP and/or her idea, which is disrespectful and 100% uncalled-for.

I hope this thread gets stickied. Just a little something to remind us all that respect is paramount.

-von
Seconded!

Administrator
Thank you for the discussion Lucas.

I too hope that everyone will post with the goal of constructive criticism and helpful feedback in mind.

I don't want young wizards to be hesitant about posting their ideas for fear that they will be over harshly judged.

I know that I love hearing everyone's creative ideas for how to improve the game.


community@wizard101.com
Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
Great thread Lucas, and thanks for bringing this up. I also appreciate Von's comment, and Professor Greyrose thank you to for your input.

Speaking for myself, I know it is at times easy to get reactionary and to post replies quickly and strongly, especially if one has a strong opinion about an idea. I have done so myself in the past, as have many of us on the boards. But even when that happens, I always appreciate it when the people involved then come back and acknowledge having posted too strongly or in a less-than-charitable manner -- apologies can also help at times.

Constructive criticism is just what the word says: "constructive", ie., "building up." When we are done, it is better if the community feels built up and improved upon, rather than torn down and feeling small.

Great topic Lucas! Thanks.

Squire
Jun 19, 2010
501
Visionaries aren't held back by naysayers with limiting comments and opinions.
If you can dream it; you or someone else can build or create it!

In 1977, Ken Olson the founder of Digital Equipment Corp (DEC) was quoted as saying, "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

In 1904, Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre stated that, "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."

In 1876, Western Union told Alexander "We do not see that this device will be ever capable of sending recognizable speech over a distance of several miles, when he offered to sell his telephone patent.

In 1878, a British Parliamentary Committee made the following comments about the light bulb, "good enough for our transatlantic friends [Americans] but unworthy of the attention of practical or scientific men."

In 1913 a U.S. District Attorney began prosecution of DeForest for selling stock fraudulently through the mail for his Radio Telephone Company. The District Attorney stated that "Lee DeForest has said in many newspapers and over his signature that it would be possible to transmit the human voice across the Atlantic before many years. Based on these absurd and deliberately misleading statements, the misguided public has been persuaded to purchase stock in his company."

In 1926, Lee De Forest had the following to say about the future of television, "While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially it is an impossibility, a development of which we need waste little time dreaming."

So what the heck does any of this have to do with Wizard 101 or this forum discussion?

Wizard 101 first started as an idea before it became an awesome reality. What's possible in the game today; may not have been possible when the game first came out.

To heck with naysayers; Wizard 101 continues to evolve for our fun and enjoyment. So keep posting your ideas; and may the best ones benefit us all.