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Myth's Minions.

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Since it's clear the developers are trying to restore class specialization with all the recent reworks to things like critical and block and the various spells and shadow enhanced spells, can we take a moment to remind ourselves what Myth is supposed to be about? Conjuring Minions to fight alongside you, of course.

Shield Minion, Buff Minion, Siphon Health, Mend Minion, Draw Power, Golem Minion, Troll Minion, Cyclops Minion, Minotaur Minion, Talos and Witch's House Call.

All Schools have a Minion or two, but Conjurers are supposed to specialize in them, just as Necromancers specialize in drains, Theurgists specializes in healing, Pyromancers specialize in damage over time spells, Thaumaturges specialize in tanking, and Diviners specialize in doing the most damage.

Why not give Myth more incentive to use their Minions in the late game and PVP? Feels like most of the focus with it nowadays is on stuns and removing positive charms and wards- stuns and blade removal being features of two other classes already.

Plus, the AI controlled Minions can often be more of a hindrance than a help. Perhaps give Myth a unique ability to set them apart, like being able to choose what spells their Minions use, or customize their minion's decks?

What about allowing Myth to have two or more minions at a time?

Don't get me wrong, a well timed Earthquake or Medusa can really set me back, and Orthrus is probably one of the hardest hitting spells I've been on the receiving end of- Myth is powerful (annoyingly so) and I'm looking forward to playing as one once I complete all the quests and side quests on my main character- but it feels like it needs something a little more to really set it apart from the other classes.

Sincerely, Visionary Necromancer Chris.

Armiger
Jan 18, 2010
2280
If we should look back on history [as the school is known to do as well], it took conjurers a decade to get a decent AoE spell.

A decade.

That was something we have been pleading with for years and it took the combined of 10 said years for our cries to finally be heard.

Now, as it relates to minions or overall utilization of the original purpose of the school, the thoughts shared here has been echoed for the past I say four or so years now.

Everyone agrees that more needs to be done as it relates to and its minions. As it currently stands now, all minions are practically useless.

No conjurers uses them past say Dragonspyre? If that far. They are mostly used within the first two worlds of the spiral by of course, newer players excited to be battling with a 'partner.'

Many don't do monstrology either, so that should not be classified as an option for conjurers either.

So, basically, we have been asking for:

  • More control of minions - Let us tell them what to do [we summoned them, we should be their master]
  • Summon more than one minions simultaneously - The higher level we gain, the more minions we should be able to summon in any one battle.
  • Provide better minion spells - Some of the ones now are a little lackluster [especially the heals].
  • Make all these benefits only school exclusive. No other school should be granted the opportunity to do these.


Delver
Jun 10, 2012
212
My myth is lvl 17 so i just want to add some idea and maybe i will tell something wrong
1. What about if not full control over minion the possibility to choose the target for them and force pass if his choice dont help us?
2. Why not 2 minion on the battlefield but the second one cost more pip to cast?(not 3 cuz last spot is supposed for monstrology)
3. Why not minion with better spells and more identity but limited deck?(but force pass from 1 mean discard so)
4. Why not the beastmoon spells for minions thats give them quite unique abilities without being to strong (absorb,flat damage blade, conditionnal side effect)?
5. X-pip minion replaced by a clear number of pip but the quality of the minion increase with the spellwriting.

Survivor
Jun 22, 2020
25
I belive the minions from myth should scale from our myth stats damage = +%health accuracy= +% resist crit and crit block they gain is switched heal in and out switched to help us keep them on the field stun=stun for them

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
126
I main myth and I agree. There are a few fundamental problems with minions.

-They don't scale so they quickly become useless. A damage focused equivalent to a level 10 is not going to help anyone past level 10. To fix this, minions should be focused on support instead of damage and or they should scale with you.

-They're extremely expensive. For the amount of time and pips it takes to summon a minion, you will be better off using that turn/ those pips for almost anything else.

-There's many minion spells and they're all pretty useless because minions are useless. Why would you care about pocketing your minion that does no damage and can't survive a hit at later levels? The only useful minion spells are sacrificial ones, and even those are too underpowered. For example, the sacrifice for pip spell does not help a single bit at late levels because you're using a power pip to gain two pips. In other words, nothing happens besides you wasting two turns (one for minion one for sacrifice) and having your pips become less compact. 400 health is kinda meh.

-Minions are actively harmful for any cheating boss. They'll use your traps, they'll trigger cheats, they'll be selfish with buffs, they'll attack the wrong targets, etc. Not being able to control your minion is a liability.

Overall, I think minions need to be completely overhauled. They need to scale with you, they need to be controllable, they need to be less expensive, the minion specific spells should be buffed, and they should all have a specific purpose.

Witches housecall is a good approach to minions. You get one as a side effect and they mainly support you. These are useful. I think at the very least, myth should get more spells that add support minions as a side effect.

Defender
Aug 20, 2008
124
I've been complaining to my Wiz101 friends lately about this very topic.

The issue from KI's viewpoint, I'm sure, is that when Myth minions were good, back in the day, every other wizard was a Myth wizard and the other schools complained loudly about how "unfair" it was that Myth could solo with their minions while other school's minions were mostly useless. Eventually, the cries of "Myth OP!" fell on sympathetic ears. One thing KI will be trying to do with their "re-focus on school uniqueness" initiative is to avoid recreating the problems that were created by the original focus on school uniqueness.

That said, I can't help feeling that spellements could give Myth a path towards upgrading and customizing the existing minions to make them more useful as "constant companions". Spellements could upgrade the rank of a minion, modify its basic deck, alter its focus, or make other adjustments that would help keep one or more minions relevant as the wizard levels up from one world to another.

Perhaps, in fact, the Myth wizard could integrate with monstrology by creating a "minion slot" that lets a Myth wizard turn any Summon treasure card into a Minion. That is, you'd have a kind of "generic minion" card in your spell book and any Summon that was slotted into the "minion slot" would appear on the "generic minion" card as a minion. The advantage being that the monstrology summons is no longer a one-shot treasure card, but a part of the deck. Make it limited to non-unique summons (i.e., no bosses) and this makes monstrology into an extension of Myth schools focus on learning and controlling all sorts of creatures. This could be tied to the earning of a badge in order to "prove" that the wizard has truly mastered the "lore" of a particular branch of monstrology.

More to the point, other schools could then also have some sort of "mastery" track that let them improve their builds in a flavorful way for that school.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2418
Star Edward on Nov 10, 2020 wrote:
If we should look back on history [as the school is known to do as well], it took conjurers a decade to get a decent AoE spell.

A decade.

That was something we have been pleading with for years and it took the combined of 10 said years for our cries to finally be heard.

Now, as it relates to minions or overall utilization of the original purpose of the school, the thoughts shared here has been echoed for the past I say four or so years now.

Everyone agrees that more needs to be done as it relates to and its minions. As it currently stands now, all minions are practically useless.

No conjurers uses them past say Dragonspyre? If that far. They are mostly used within the first two worlds of the spiral by of course, newer players excited to be battling with a 'partner.'

Many don't do monstrology either, so that should not be classified as an option for conjurers either.

So, basically, we have been asking for:

  • More control of minions - Let us tell them what to do [we summoned them, we should be their master]
  • Summon more than one minions simultaneously - The higher level we gain, the more minions we should be able to summon in any one battle.
  • Provide better minion spells - Some of the ones now are a little lackluster [especially the heals].
  • Make all these benefits only school exclusive. No other school should be granted the opportunity to do these.

Not doing Monstrology is their choice though. It's part of the game and advances with the player's level. With Monstrology, it solves the minion problem in regards to viability all around (health, pips, damage). I think this is an overlooked aspect of Myth's usefulness. I've farmed for the good monstrology monsters. In one weekend, that was doing 2x XP/drops, I got 100 tcs of monstrology monsters of the Tree Root bosses in Khrysalis. Those are some powerful minions.

That said, once again, we have been asking for more control over minions for many years and have not been heard. This is also why many myth users complained about the Colossus nerf. Orthus is now a really good spell, and worth a lot more than Colossus in that it uses guaranteed pips. Shadow pips are never guaranteed to show up by a certain time. Heck, how long did it take us to get an in school healing spell? It's still not school trained, but at least we have one that's a possibility.

All of THAT said, let's give them time to work on improvements and see what they can come up with.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Slickriptide on Nov 24, 2020 wrote:
I've been complaining to my Wiz101 friends lately about this very topic.

The issue from KI's viewpoint, I'm sure, is that when Myth minions were good, back in the day, every other wizard was a Myth wizard and the other schools complained loudly about how "unfair" it was that Myth could solo with their minions while other school's minions were mostly useless. Eventually, the cries of "Myth OP!" fell on sympathetic ears. One thing KI will be trying to do with their "re-focus on school uniqueness" initiative is to avoid recreating the problems that were created by the original focus on school uniqueness.

That said, I can't help feeling that spellements could give Myth a path towards upgrading and customizing the existing minions to make them more useful as "constant companions". Spellements could upgrade the rank of a minion, modify its basic deck, alter its focus, or make other adjustments that would help keep one or more minions relevant as the wizard levels up from one world to another.

Perhaps, in fact, the Myth wizard could integrate with monstrology by creating a "minion slot" that lets a Myth wizard turn any Summon treasure card into a Minion. That is, you'd have a kind of "generic minion" card in your spell book and any Summon that was slotted into the "minion slot" would appear on the "generic minion" card as a minion. The advantage being that the monstrology summons is no longer a one-shot treasure card, but a part of the deck. Make it limited to non-unique summons (i.e., no bosses) and this makes monstrology into an extension of Myth schools focus on learning and controlling all sorts of creatures. This could be tied to the earning of a badge in order to "prove" that the wizard has truly mastered the "lore" of a particular branch of monstrology.

More to the point, other schools could then also have some sort of "mastery" track that let them improve their builds in a flavorful way for that school.
I've had a similar inkling of an idea for years. Certain schools should have an affinity with certain extracurricular activities like garden and fishing.

Life, Gardening, Photomancy. Myth, Monstrology. Also pet training? Storm, Fishing. Also crafting maybe? Since that's the school of scientists. Death...huh. Maybe also Monstrology- raise dead and all that. Not sure what a secondary bonus could be for them. Maybe also pet training?

I don't know, just spitballing.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2418
Necromancer Chris on Nov 7, 2020 wrote:
Since it's clear the developers are trying to restore class specialization with all the recent reworks to things like critical and block and the various spells and shadow enhanced spells, can we take a moment to remind ourselves what Myth is supposed to be about? Conjuring Minions to fight alongside you, of course.

Shield Minion, Buff Minion, Siphon Health, Mend Minion, Draw Power, Golem Minion, Troll Minion, Cyclops Minion, Minotaur Minion, Talos and Witch's House Call.

All Schools have a Minion or two, but Conjurers are supposed to specialize in them, just as Necromancers specialize in drains, Theurgists specializes in healing, Pyromancers specialize in damage over time spells, Thaumaturges specialize in tanking, and Diviners specialize in doing the most damage.

Why not give Myth more incentive to use their Minions in the late game and PVP? Feels like most of the focus with it nowadays is on stuns and removing positive charms and wards- stuns and blade removal being features of two other classes already.

Plus, the AI controlled Minions can often be more of a hindrance than a help. Perhaps give Myth a unique ability to set them apart, like being able to choose what spells their Minions use, or customize their minion's decks?

What about allowing Myth to have two or more minions at a time?

Don't get me wrong, a well timed Earthquake or Medusa can really set me back, and Orthrus is probably one of the hardest hitting spells I've been on the receiving end of- Myth is powerful (annoyingly so) and I'm looking forward to playing as one once I complete all the quests and side quests on my main character- but it feels like it needs something a little more to really set it apart from the other classes.

Sincerely, Visionary Necromancer Chris.
Let's not also forget death has more minions than Myth does:

Myth has 11: Golem (1), Troll (3), Cyclops (4), Minotaur (1), Talos (1), Vassanji (1)
Death has 15: Animate (14 because it's an X-pip minion spell), Malduit (1)

This needs to be fixed as well, as I pointed out on THIS THREAD almost 5 years ago.