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Moon School Improvments

AuthorMessage
Explorer
May 16, 2009
97
The least used Astral school and probably one of most difficult to use because of it, the Moon School is an interesting choice for wizards to train; and it's mostly useless compared to the other Astral schools. One of the issues with this school, is while you can use it to fill in roles like healing if you don't have one, it's better to stay in your normal human wizard form than it is to Polymorph. I would like to remedy that and make the Moon school a more viable type of magic to train, and I have a couple suggestions that could improve the usefulness of the school.

This list talks about mostly the Polymorphs, not the Shift spells.

1.) Let player gear stats have some influence.

While polymorphs get their own appropriate stats, they start to fall off around Avalon. I suggest allowing player gear have some sway in the polymorph's respectable stats. For Example, maybe add the wizards fire damage to the Polymorph Draconian's fire damage bonus; have player resistances reduce the damage boost from certain schools; have player resistances add resistance to schools while polymorphed, etc.

Now, I'm not saying have 100% of player values, but some influence would be nice.

2.) Add a Myth Polymorph, and maybe Astral Polymorphs

There's a polymorph for all the primary schools but Myth. While this isn't game changing, it would be a nice addition to the School.

Now as for the Astral polymorphs, I feel like these are a grey area. On one hand, you have access to spells that are otherwise unobtainable (Like Moon Shield. -50%,,), and will possibly be able to do Astral Damage. However, on the other hand, I don't feel like they would add anything or fill any roles. Treant and Jaguar fill a healer role, Gobbler can tank, Ninja Pigs debuff, Mander & Icehorn buffs, and Storm and Fire polymorphs do damage in their own way. (And so would Myth) Astral polymorphs, I feel, would fill a hybrid role, not particularly adept at any one task.

3.) Increase or modify the polymorph's base stats.

An increase to the polymorph's statistics would help them out with scaling as you use them in later worlds.

4.) Allow the use of Astral spells from your own deck while Polymorphed.

While we know that polymorphing changes everything about our wizard, allowing the use of astral, or adding astral spells to the decks of polymorphs, would help them out in their respective roles greatly. In addition, it will also add some variation to their spell decks.

In conclusion, I think these things will help out the moon school. I feel like their scaling and overall use would be improved, and they might be considered worth the training points.

- Issac Legendwielder, Level 68
Currently doing the Moon School Challenge.

Survivor
Aug 02, 2013
27
I just submitted a topic about Moon magic (before I saw your topic), and I'm 100% (and maybe a bit more) with you. Moon magic deserve to be playable part of our wizard's arsenal, and Myth does deserve it's Moon spell (maybe with a few earthquakes in the spell deck).

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
Moon does need some love, idk about shifts, they look ok. A problem with moon magic is you get stuck in that form and can't do anything else. Maybe you could make it like a bonus deck. Example, you are a storm wizard and you morph into a treant or something. Maybe make a spell tab to go from the life spells and your storm spells, also temporary mastery, and your usual stats. Basically moon magic would turn into a temporary addition of a certain school to add to your own arsenal for a few rounds. This would also fix the stats issue of using a level 60 card in a level 105 situation or a level 30 situation.

Explorer
May 16, 2009
97
Bigboss1029 on Aug 14, 2016 wrote:
Moon does need some love, idk about shifts, they look ok. A problem with moon magic is you get stuck in that form and can't do anything else. Maybe you could make it like a bonus deck. Example, you are a storm wizard and you morph into a treant or something. Maybe make a spell tab to go from the life spells and your storm spells, also temporary mastery, and your usual stats. Basically moon magic would turn into a temporary addition of a certain school to add to your own arsenal for a few rounds. This would also fix the stats issue of using a level 60 card in a level 105 situation or a level 30 situation.
I feel like this would introduce an entirely new set of problems.

First, this could obsolete mastery amulets, especially for life because both the life polymorph have really powerful healing abilities that most non-life wizards do not have access to without treasure cards. Plus, the polymorphs also grant access to spells that don't even have treasure card versions because they are unique to the polymorph or are usually monster-only spells.

Second, adding a side deck of cards and allowing yourself to pick and choose what stats you want to have for each round doesn't make any sense. What your proposing with that kind of change to the moon school, is to reduce or possible eliminate any sort of risk with using polymorphs. You can't polymorph into a draconian and suddenly decide you want to act as a storm wizard all of the sudden the moment things take a turn for the worst. A better solution would to give each polymorph a moon spell that ends the polymorph early, rather than switch between two sets of statistics.

Third, I suggested level scaling for the polymorphs to help with using a level 60 card in Polaris or some place much higher level.

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
Spark Plasma on Aug 15, 2016 wrote:
I feel like this would introduce an entirely new set of problems.

First, this could obsolete mastery amulets, especially for life because both the life polymorph have really powerful healing abilities that most non-life wizards do not have access to without treasure cards. Plus, the polymorphs also grant access to spells that don't even have treasure card versions because they are unique to the polymorph or are usually monster-only spells.

Second, adding a side deck of cards and allowing yourself to pick and choose what stats you want to have for each round doesn't make any sense. What your proposing with that kind of change to the moon school, is to reduce or possible eliminate any sort of risk with using polymorphs. You can't polymorph into a draconian and suddenly decide you want to act as a storm wizard all of the sudden the moment things take a turn for the worst. A better solution would to give each polymorph a moon spell that ends the polymorph early, rather than switch between two sets of statistics.

Third, I suggested level scaling for the polymorphs to help with using a level 60 card in Polaris or some place much higher level.
These problems are acceptable. Think about it, there are three astral schools. One adds damage or pierce/accuracy with no risk, while the other one at worst gives you a more incoming damage. Given this, I think it would be fine to change between schools when things go south. Your stats would stay exactly the same besides power pip mastery. That means that even though you can now quickly cast some OP healing spell, you won't have the large outgoing/incoming healing stats a real healer would have to make it effective. Same goes if you're using a different school for damage. Chances are, you won't have the stats to deal a lot of damage for that school unless you planned your gear to split schools. And if your gear is split, that makes you less powerful for your primary school, so its a good tradeoff as good gear seems to be focused on your primary school. For instance, does ice WW gear care about storm damage? That's the risk

It would make mastery amulets less desirable, but not obsolete. Its like only having a maycast wand for a loremaster spell you want to train. Its kind of good but not as good as the real thing. Keep in mind that unless you really go into the zeke quests, you only have so many training points. We need all these schools to be roughly equal priority. This may sound overpowered but it seems about equal to adding damage/pierce/accuracy/pips with little consequence. As for the really overpowered moon spells, we can add that later down the line, so OP heals for example are only for those deeply invested in moon magic. It has to be worth it to sacrifice proficiency in some other astral school in order to train multiple moon spells.

When I first saw moon magic, it seemed to be meant to streamline RPG roles. You can turn into a tank, a healer or a hammer. Basically for team use only. Your ideas of scaling and early change back would be better than now, but probably not useful enough for non-group questing wizards to think it's worth their training points.

Explorer
May 16, 2009
97
Bigboss1029 on Aug 18, 2016 wrote:
These problems are acceptable. Think about it, there are three astral schools. One adds damage or pierce/accuracy with no risk, while the other one at worst gives you a more incoming damage. Given this, I think it would be fine to change between schools when things go south. Your stats would stay exactly the same besides power pip mastery. That means that even though you can now quickly cast some OP healing spell, you won't have the large outgoing/incoming healing stats a real healer would have to make it effective. Same goes if you're using a different school for damage. Chances are, you won't have the stats to deal a lot of damage for that school unless you planned your gear to split schools. And if your gear is split, that makes you less powerful for your primary school, so its a good tradeoff as good gear seems to be focused on your primary school. For instance, does ice WW gear care about storm damage? That's the risk

It would make mastery amulets less desirable, but not obsolete. Its like only having a maycast wand for a loremaster spell you want to train. Its kind of good but not as good as the real thing. Keep in mind that unless you really go into the zeke quests, you only have so many training points. We need all these schools to be roughly equal priority. This may sound overpowered but it seems about equal to adding damage/pierce/accuracy/pips with little consequence. As for the really overpowered moon spells, we can add that later down the line, so OP heals for example are only for those deeply invested in moon magic. It has to be worth it to sacrifice proficiency in some other astral school in order to train multiple moon spells.

When I first saw moon magic, it seemed to be meant to streamline RPG roles. You can turn into a tank, a healer or a hammer. Basically for team use only. Your ideas of scaling and early change back would be better than now, but probably not useful enough for non-group questing wizards to think it's worth their training points.
While you're right about the other schools, Moon is all about change and transformation, both literally and figuratively. While changing power pip mastery is fine and dandy, if you also keep your own stats while morphed, you're basically just making it a mastery amulet and a temporary deck. I feel like this is too forgiving on the player, because there is little risk to using these. Polymorphing into a monster of fire that can somehow completely resist an attack of the opposite school just doesn't sit right. I don't want the risk to be that you can't deal as much damage, or you can't output giant healing spells; that's a pathetic risk and easily mitigated with charms and traps. No, I feel like the risks currently associated with polymorphing now is fine, but the benefits of polymorphing need to be scaled with the risks as you continue to higher and more difficult worlds.

Also, I do a lot of questing solo with polymorphs, and I have found plenty use out of them; especially when fighting my own school or when my health is in a critical condition. So while they are usually better in team play, I've found plenty good use out of them while questing solo, considering I've already trained the 12 polymorphs and plan to train the 7 shift spells later, with only sacrificing proficiency in most of the star school, by only training Fortify and Amplify.

Survivor
Aug 02, 2013
27
Moon magic is the least used in the game, and for a good reason: it completely changes the wizard, ignoring all the stats and spells. I remember the first time I cast Treant polymorph, and how awful I felted when a simple attack hit me with full force. The idea of changing my deck for a few turns was magnificent, even though I knew that I wouldn't be able to attack too much. But because it ignored all my wizard stats, after that battle I took the spell from my deck.

Now we have seen how KI have revised some old spells, and they have done very good improvements. Moon magic should be next, allowing the stats of our wizards to mix with the polymorph spell. That will open up many new playing styles and it would revive one of the most unique school of magic. I got some minor improvements ideas for the polymorph spells:

- Gobbler: 35 resist to all, 20 boost to fire
- Mander: 10 attack to all, 20 boost to all, except balance
- Cat Bandit: 20 storm attack, 150 storm critical, 20 boost to life and myth
- Ninja Pig: 15 death attack, 120 critical block to all, 20 boost to life and storm
- Draconian: 15 fire attack, 110 fire critical, 20 boost to ice and storm
- Treant: 25 outgoing heal boost, 25 life critical, 30 resist to life, 30 boost to death
- Colossus: 40 ice attack, 70 ice critical, 80 resist to ice, 20 resist to balance, death, life and storm, 40 boost to myth and fire
- Fire elemental: 40 fire attack, 90 fire critical, 80 fire resist, 40 boost to fire and storm
- Storm elemental: 40 storm attack, 15 storm pierce, 45 storm critical, 80 storm resist, 40 boost to myth and life
- Jaguar: 40 outgoing heal boost, 25 life resist, 40 boost to death
- Pteranodon: 25 storm attack, 175 storm critical, 50 storm resist, 40 boost to myth
- Icehorn: 40 resist to all, 80 resist to ice, 40 boost to fire

I believe these changes will make all the spells useful in many situations, and many players will find Moon magic to be part of their decks once again.

Defender
Jun 04, 2014
141
Moon Spells would be a lot more usable if you could determine how long they stay on you. Most of them transform you for a number of rounds (4 or 6 I believe), and you are stuck in that form all that time. If you could choose when to end the transformation, they would be a lot more useful. For example, lets say you are a life wizard fighting a myth monster. You transform to Polymorph Pteranodon, which is storm based as has a specific set of spells. You stay in that form for a round or two, and cast one or more storm spells. Then lets say in the third round you decide you don't want to stay in that form anymore. You could end it and return back to your Normal self. The transformation would take a round, but being able to end it when you wanted to would give you more flexibility. It would not be the same as having a mastery amulet. It would let you be a lot more flexible in your tactics and combat strategies.

I would even go so far as to suggest that you only lose a round on the initial transformation. There should be a button once you transformed that allows you to end the transformation immediately on the start of your next round, and would still allow you to choose an attack as your school once the tranformation is complete - i.e. you don't lose a round on ending the transformation - only on the initial transformation. That would make people more likely to use Moon spells.

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
Spark Plasma on Aug 18, 2016 wrote:
While you're right about the other schools, Moon is all about change and transformation, both literally and figuratively. While changing power pip mastery is fine and dandy, if you also keep your own stats while morphed, you're basically just making it a mastery amulet and a temporary deck. I feel like this is too forgiving on the player, because there is little risk to using these. Polymorphing into a monster of fire that can somehow completely resist an attack of the opposite school just doesn't sit right. I don't want the risk to be that you can't deal as much damage, or you can't output giant healing spells; that's a pathetic risk and easily mitigated with charms and traps. No, I feel like the risks currently associated with polymorphing now is fine, but the benefits of polymorphing need to be scaled with the risks as you continue to higher and more difficult worlds.

Also, I do a lot of questing solo with polymorphs, and I have found plenty use out of them; especially when fighting my own school or when my health is in a critical condition. So while they are usually better in team play, I've found plenty good use out of them while questing solo, considering I've already trained the 12 polymorphs and plan to train the 7 shift spells later, with only sacrificing proficiency in most of the star school, by only training Fortify and Amplify.
I just don't understand why you are so against little to no risk. The only risk with sun spells is that you could have used another one. The absolute worst risk with star magic is +45% incoming damage, and that's only if you're silly enough to use berserk. Normally its +10% incoming damage for good star spells. That is very little risk. And most of the time, you know what you're fighting before hand, so you can always just pack prisms or in my case you can just pierce straight through the resist if you come ill prepared. The only useful polymorphs I can think of are the heals for emergencies and maybe a mander for playing heavy support. Even then your health, damage, resist, and power pips get shredded away for too many rounds. My idea of keeping your stats and adding a temporary side deck and mastery for a few rounds seems good, as there really isn't a good reason to add risk to it besides symbolism.

Besides, sub par gear in order to make polymorphs more effective is a good risk. Instead of using your top of the line rare gear, you end up using some ok craft gear to split schools and you become far less effective at your school. That's arguably a bigger risk as your stats go down the drain. Sure you can mitigate but you didn't used to have to. Scaling is mostly good, except there is a problem with that. What if your gear is better than the polymorph? A lot of the time its better just to stay as a more powerful wizard against guys with resist than to turn into a weaker wizard with far more limited options and bad stats. Sure KI can make the polymorphs powerful in ways, but that just goes back to team roles only where you get stuck in a certain role. Not only this but its cluncky, you get stuck for many rounds.That's why they made shifts so you only have to use one turn. Even then shifts are more just for (de)buffs.

As for you being able to solo well with moon magic, I have no idea how you do it, but more power to you. There's at least 2 more must have star spells

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
CUTEHORSEY on Aug 19, 2016 wrote:
Moon Spells would be a lot more usable if you could determine how long they stay on you. Most of them transform you for a number of rounds (4 or 6 I believe), and you are stuck in that form all that time. If you could choose when to end the transformation, they would be a lot more useful. For example, lets say you are a life wizard fighting a myth monster. You transform to Polymorph Pteranodon, which is storm based as has a specific set of spells. You stay in that form for a round or two, and cast one or more storm spells. Then lets say in the third round you decide you don't want to stay in that form anymore. You could end it and return back to your Normal self. The transformation would take a round, but being able to end it when you wanted to would give you more flexibility. It would not be the same as having a mastery amulet. It would let you be a lot more flexible in your tactics and combat strategies.

I would even go so far as to suggest that you only lose a round on the initial transformation. There should be a button once you transformed that allows you to end the transformation immediately on the start of your next round, and would still allow you to choose an attack as your school once the tranformation is complete - i.e. you don't lose a round on ending the transformation - only on the initial transformation. That would make people more likely to use Moon spells.
This is the very least OP and I can agree on. I personally vote for the one round trasformation only, because dedicating two turns to polymorph is too much. Still doesn't fix the fact that your stats go down the drain. The minimum adjustment I'd be happy with is early change back and maybe card scaling. And even card scaling is optional as there are more and more powerful morphs as you go up, if its ok for sun its ok for moon. They do need to make the stats of the morphs usable enough for me to be willing to ditch my full darkmoor stats for a little bit. Doesn't have to be better, just doable.

Explorer
May 16, 2009
97
coron003 on Aug 19, 2016 wrote:
Moon magic is the least used in the game, and for a good reason: it completely changes the wizard, ignoring all the stats and spells. I remember the first time I cast Treant polymorph, and how awful I felted when a simple attack hit me with full force. The idea of changing my deck for a few turns was magnificent, even though I knew that I wouldn't be able to attack too much. But because it ignored all my wizard stats, after that battle I took the spell from my deck.

Now we have seen how KI have revised some old spells, and they have done very good improvements. Moon magic should be next, allowing the stats of our wizards to mix with the polymorph spell. That will open up many new playing styles and it would revive one of the most unique school of magic. I got some minor improvements ideas for the polymorph spells:

- Gobbler: 35 resist to all, 20 boost to fire
- Mander: 10 attack to all, 20 boost to all, except balance
- Cat Bandit: 20 storm attack, 150 storm critical, 20 boost to life and myth
- Ninja Pig: 15 death attack, 120 critical block to all, 20 boost to life and storm
- Draconian: 15 fire attack, 110 fire critical, 20 boost to ice and storm
- Treant: 25 outgoing heal boost, 25 life critical, 30 resist to life, 30 boost to death
- Colossus: 40 ice attack, 70 ice critical, 80 resist to ice, 20 resist to balance, death, life and storm, 40 boost to myth and fire
- Fire elemental: 40 fire attack, 90 fire critical, 80 fire resist, 40 boost to fire and storm
- Storm elemental: 40 storm attack, 15 storm pierce, 45 storm critical, 80 storm resist, 40 boost to myth and life
- Jaguar: 40 outgoing heal boost, 25 life resist, 40 boost to death
- Pteranodon: 25 storm attack, 175 storm critical, 50 storm resist, 40 boost to myth
- Icehorn: 40 resist to all, 80 resist to ice, 40 boost to fire

I believe these changes will make all the spells useful in many situations, and many players will find Moon magic to be part of their decks once again.
I see where you're coming from, but some of your improvements make no sense; in fact, some of them actually nerf the polymorphs. All you're doing is modifying their resist, boost, and sometimes critical, and that's fine and dandy, but while you're doing all of that, you forget the purpose or the role the polymorphs fill. Let me address them individually:

A lot of your suggestions for the polymorph's statistics are what they already are, so I'll only address the ones you've changed.

- Gobbler: It already has 35% universal resist, and it is a good polymorph for tanking with its set of cards (Able to heal and taunt); why nerf it and make fire boost?
- Mander: As a support polymorph, there's no reason to give it much attack or boost. Technically, only life, myth, and death are supposed to boost against balance in the first place. Your suggestions actually hurt this polymorph.
- Ninja Pig: Another supportive polymorph, while giving it some attack could help damage output, that isn't what it is meant for. However, the critical block can help with survivability, but is negated by the suggested boosts.
- Fire Elemental: I think you meant to say "40 boost to ice and storm", other than that, it already has those statistics.

- Storm Elemental: The pierce would help with damage output, but it would only help against wards. Polymorphing into a creature of storm doesn't make sense when fighting a monster of storm.
- Jaguar: The resist and boost to death, by the wiki page, is unknown. I will say, however, that 25% life resistance is rather low for a Polymorph gained in Azteca.
- Pteranodon: Can't say much about the attack and critical, but if it's an improvement from the current, as they are unknown, it would be helpful.
- Icehorn: The universal resist would help, but Icehorn fills a more hybrid buff/tank role. 40% universal resist for a creature of this role seems to be a bit much. I would suggest 20% but nothing exceeding Gobbler's resist.

Survivor
Aug 02, 2013
27
If KI update these spells, and let the wizards keep their stats, I already know what I want to see next: new moon spells. Maybe changing into one of the new teachers at the Arcanum. Or a creature from Khrysalis, Polaris or Mirage. So many possibilities....

Survivor
Mar 15, 2009
24
Spark Plasma on Aug 8, 2016 wrote:
The least used Astral school and probably one of most difficult to use because of it, the Moon School is an interesting choice for wizards to train; and it's mostly useless compared to the other Astral schools. One of the issues with this school, is while you can use it to fill in roles like healing if you don't have one, it's better to stay in your normal human wizard form than it is to Polymorph. I would like to remedy that and make the Moon school a more viable type of magic to train, and I have a couple suggestions that could improve the usefulness of the school.

This list talks about mostly the Polymorphs, not the Shift spells.

1.) Let player gear stats have some influence.

While polymorphs get their own appropriate stats, they start to fall off around Avalon. I suggest allowing player gear have some sway in the polymorph's respectable stats. For Example, maybe add the wizards fire damage to the Polymorph Draconian's fire damage bonus; have player resistances reduce the damage boost from certain schools; have player resistances add resistance to schools while polymorphed, etc.

Now, I'm not saying have 100% of player values, but some influence would be nice.

2.) Add a Myth Polymorph, and maybe Astral Polymorphs

There's a polymorph for all the primary schools but Myth. While this isn't game changing, it would be a nice addition to the School.

Now as for the Astral polymorphs, I feel like these are a grey area. On one hand, you have access to spells that are otherwise unobtainable (Like Moon Shield. -50%,,), and will possibly be able to do Astral Damage. However, on the other hand, I don't feel like they would add anything or fill any roles. Treant and Jaguar fill a healer role, Gobbler can tank, Ninja Pigs debuff, Mander & Icehorn buffs, and Storm and Fire polymorphs do damage in their own way. (And so would Myth) Astral polymorphs, I feel, would fill a hybrid role, not particularly adept at any one task.

3.) Increase or modify the polymorph's base stats.

An increase to the polymorph's statistics would help them out with scaling as you use them in later worlds.

4.) Allow the use of Astral spells from your own deck while Polymorphed.

While we know that polymorphing changes everything about our wizard, allowing the use of astral, or adding astral spells to the decks of polymorphs, would help them out in their respective roles greatly. In addition, it will also add some variation to their spell decks.

In conclusion, I think these things will help out the moon school. I feel like their scaling and overall use would be improved, and they might be considered worth the training points.

- Issac Legendwielder, Level 68
Currently doing the Moon School Challenge.
About the couple of points you made about player scaling and modifying polymorph stats. KingsIsle may already be working on this (which approach they take I don't know of.) You should go look at the polymorph trainer in storm riven and check out the polymorph fire elemental spell. Interesting enough, the description of that spell is different from all the others. Most notably, there is a "+% universal damage" modifier on the bottom of the card. I've asked another wizard about this already and they said it shows for them as well. This could be a bug, but I'd like to think it's a hint towards future content.
Now as to how scaling could actually be accomplished, I think I have a good idea on how this can be accomplished. Following the moon school style of change and transformation, the developers could just add a multiplier to the stats available to the respective polymorph. I'll use health as an example. You get the Mander polymore at level 52 and it has 2000 health. If you use a formula like this, "New Health" = Health * (Your Current Lvl/Spell Lvl), you could add scaling to wizards that use these spells. This is obvious a very dumbed down version of what would be needed for the formula and other variables would need to be added in to prevent unfair stats at lower or higher levels (a level one wizard with this formula would have a 38 health mander for example.) This is just a very basic idea of how scaling could be added.
Lastly about player stats contributing to polymorphs. I don't really care for this at all since it takes away from what the moon school is all about (which is transforming into really cool things for one turn or several.) I'm glad to talk about the moon school with someone else and I'd be happy to answer questions any of you might have about the moon school or my comments above. Peace
- Michael Shadowblade, Level 110

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
tyrant405 on Sep 2, 2016 wrote:
About the couple of points you made about player scaling and modifying polymorph stats. KingsIsle may already be working on this (which approach they take I don't know of.) You should go look at the polymorph trainer in storm riven and check out the polymorph fire elemental spell. Interesting enough, the description of that spell is different from all the others. Most notably, there is a "+% universal damage" modifier on the bottom of the card. I've asked another wizard about this already and they said it shows for them as well. This could be a bug, but I'd like to think it's a hint towards future content.
Now as to how scaling could actually be accomplished, I think I have a good idea on how this can be accomplished. Following the moon school style of change and transformation, the developers could just add a multiplier to the stats available to the respective polymorph. I'll use health as an example. You get the Mander polymore at level 52 and it has 2000 health. If you use a formula like this, "New Health" = Health * (Your Current Lvl/Spell Lvl), you could add scaling to wizards that use these spells. This is obvious a very dumbed down version of what would be needed for the formula and other variables would need to be added in to prevent unfair stats at lower or higher levels (a level one wizard with this formula would have a 38 health mander for example.) This is just a very basic idea of how scaling could be added.
Lastly about player stats contributing to polymorphs. I don't really care for this at all since it takes away from what the moon school is all about (which is transforming into really cool things for one turn or several.) I'm glad to talk about the moon school with someone else and I'd be happy to answer questions any of you might have about the moon school or my comments above. Peace
- Michael Shadowblade, Level 110
This is actually a pretty good solution. I think the polymorph should improve by levels. For instance, at the level you would unlock a certain sun or star spell, it would throw it into the move set of the moon spell. And later, it would upgrade the sun spells and add more star. For player stats contributing, that's so your stats don't go down the drain. I think a good solution is to make every polymorph have decent stats unrelated to your own, like if you were using a high level morph, every one would have universal resist, decent damage, good pips, ect. There already a system where your stats slightly improve as you level up, that should be added to morph.

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
Hey Spark Plasma, if you remember me, I'm the guy who thinks we should make moon magic an extra deck and temporary mastery. I just thought of an extra risk, what if you get two debuffs for each transformation. For instance, if you were to turn into a healing creature, once you were finished, you'd get two strangles put on yourself. If you were a damage heavy one, two weaknesses, if you were a tank one, reduced shield strength for two shields. If you were a a support, reduced power pips for a few turns.

Survivor
Mar 15, 2009
24
Bigboss1029 on Sep 4, 2016 wrote:
This is actually a pretty good solution. I think the polymorph should improve by levels. For instance, at the level you would unlock a certain sun or star spell, it would throw it into the move set of the moon spell. And later, it would upgrade the sun spells and add more star. For player stats contributing, that's so your stats don't go down the drain. I think a good solution is to make every polymorph have decent stats unrelated to your own, like if you were using a high level morph, every one would have universal resist, decent damage, good pips, ect. There already a system where your stats slightly improve as you level up, that should be added to morph.
Personally, I don't see it as the player's stats going down the drain. I always saw my stats as protection from when my polymorphs decided to end. When even I took a large hit while in polymorph, I could always recover once I switched back to my wizard (even when fighting mobs in polaris mind you though not bosses cause they're too hard.)
I made a little tweak to my formula for the mander's health. Formula: New Health = 460 + (x * lvl)
X is some multiplier that I've yet to figure out, but it would allow the mander's health to be the same at 52 while preventing the health to be unrealistic at low levels. I chose 460 to be added to the multiplier so that the new health will be around balance wizards level 1 health.

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
tyrant405 on Sep 4, 2016 wrote:
Personally, I don't see it as the player's stats going down the drain. I always saw my stats as protection from when my polymorphs decided to end. When even I took a large hit while in polymorph, I could always recover once I switched back to my wizard (even when fighting mobs in polaris mind you though not bosses cause they're too hard.)
I made a little tweak to my formula for the mander's health. Formula: New Health = 460 + (x * lvl)
X is some multiplier that I've yet to figure out, but it would allow the mander's health to be the same at 52 while preventing the health to be unrealistic at low levels. I chose 460 to be added to the multiplier so that the new health will be around balance wizards level 1 health.
I think there should be default health until levels after you get that spell. At levels after it should be 2000(1.(2*lvl difference)). So if you were to get a 2000 health mander at level 60 and you were using it at level 70, it would be 2000(1.20) to equal 2400 health. If max level (110), 2000(2)=4,000. That happens to be an almost purely support morph btw. if it were a tank morph with say 3,000 health at level 60, and you were maxed, it would be 3000(2)=6000 health. I think that's a good formula. The problem is you need you consider power pips, resist, sun spells, ect. To solve that I think they should use what they use for your wizard already which is to mildly improve your stats as you level up. Also as I said before, there should be milestones where they throw in some new spells into your morph deck.

Survivor
Mar 15, 2009
24
Bigboss1029 on Sep 7, 2016 wrote:
I think there should be default health until levels after you get that spell. At levels after it should be 2000(1.(2*lvl difference)). So if you were to get a 2000 health mander at level 60 and you were using it at level 70, it would be 2000(1.20) to equal 2400 health. If max level (110), 2000(2)=4,000. That happens to be an almost purely support morph btw. if it were a tank morph with say 3,000 health at level 60, and you were maxed, it would be 3000(2)=6000 health. I think that's a good formula. The problem is you need you consider power pips, resist, sun spells, ect. To solve that I think they should use what they use for your wizard already which is to mildly improve your stats as you level up. Also as I said before, there should be milestones where they throw in some new spells into your morph deck.
The idea with my formula was to possibly balance moon spells at lower levels. I found out after testing the formula that the mander's health would be kind of underwhelming at max level (not even 4k, that's pretty bad.) Though yours isn't without it's flaws either. Your formula assumed that the spell is learned when executing the formula. How would treasure cards and item cards work into the equation. If a level 10 wizard got a treasure card and used it at level 20, the health would be the same as the level 70 in your example. It actually would be the same health if that level 10 used it at level 110 too (2000(1.(2*(110 - 10))) = 2400.) Though both our formulas are kind of fail one way or another, it still stands that level scaling would be a great addition to moon polymorphs.
Considering other stats, a milestone system would probably work best for the spells and not really the stats. Programming level scaling in games for things like stats works best with a formula as opposed to the level milestones which would be just adding levels in a list along side what want to add on the respective levels. From experience, it's just better that way. For spells, the addition of new spells would require ditching some other spells. Otherwise, you'd eventually end up with a deck larger than most and only 6 turns to search for what you want. I also disagree with the addition of sun spells. Our wizards are the only ones that use them (with a few exceptions) and polymorphing makes us someone else. A couple star spells would be alright though since almost every creature outside of Celestia uses them. Though if the stats are getting scaled, the polymorphs spells might be fine as is. Idk. I'm just waiting until next patch where they'll most likely add new moon spells for me to mess with.

Defender
Mar 08, 2011
122
tyrant405 on Sep 9, 2016 wrote:
The idea with my formula was to possibly balance moon spells at lower levels. I found out after testing the formula that the mander's health would be kind of underwhelming at max level (not even 4k, that's pretty bad.) Though yours isn't without it's flaws either. Your formula assumed that the spell is learned when executing the formula. How would treasure cards and item cards work into the equation. If a level 10 wizard got a treasure card and used it at level 20, the health would be the same as the level 70 in your example. It actually would be the same health if that level 10 used it at level 110 too (2000(1.(2*(110 - 10))) = 2400.) Though both our formulas are kind of fail one way or another, it still stands that level scaling would be a great addition to moon polymorphs.
Considering other stats, a milestone system would probably work best for the spells and not really the stats. Programming level scaling in games for things like stats works best with a formula as opposed to the level milestones which would be just adding levels in a list along side what want to add on the respective levels. From experience, it's just better that way. For spells, the addition of new spells would require ditching some other spells. Otherwise, you'd eventually end up with a deck larger than most and only 6 turns to search for what you want. I also disagree with the addition of sun spells. Our wizards are the only ones that use them (with a few exceptions) and polymorphing makes us someone else. A couple star spells would be alright though since almost every creature outside of Celestia uses them. Though if the stats are getting scaled, the polymorphs spells might be fine as is. Idk. I'm just waiting until next patch where they'll most likely add new moon spells for me to mess with.
For my formula I meant that it stays at the level 60 health and stats until you go above it. I do think sun spells should be put in, as there are mobs in say, darkmoor that do about as much damage as a wizard. Even if that were not the case, sun spells are incredibly important, and I don't believe it would be worth changing without them. As for adding stuff to the deck, I don't mean just throw in new spells, I meant rearrange the whole deck, kind of like minions. For instance, do you ever see vassanji (high end myth minion) use blood bats? Now, I know that you want to nerf moon spells for lower levels, but I don't think we should. Low levels can already use really high level spells, but they're held back by power pips. Maybe there could be a missing feature for low levels using these spells like no early change back. As for tc, there should be ones for different versions of these moon spells. This also solves the problem of high levels not being able to use earlier versions if they for some reason want to. Milestone system is good.